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"hzflank is totes scum, yo" - Unknown Philosopher
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hz is trying hard to appear as a contributer, without actually contributing.
On June 24 2013 11:43 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:25 Chromatically wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2013 11:17 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:13 Chromatically wrote:On June 24 2013 11:02 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone Well, it's hard to decide whether the "hey" part or the "everyone" part is scummier. Really a toss up. What could you possibly expect me to explain? You're taking this awfully seriously. Why did you take so long to reply if you were in the thread? Not taking it super seriously, just busting you back. I posted in the thread then went back to reddit. Checked the thread again after a few minutes. I'll be around tonight and early tomorrow morning. And hey Xzavier. Hmm. In both other newbie games, you started out with a policy post about lurkers. Any particular reason why you changed for this game? I noticed that too. This is Spicy's first post in his previous game, where he was town: Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 10:47 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone, I'll get the ball rolling. One of the most important things I've learned about day 1 is to make sure that town is active and posting USEFUL information and not just fluff. Lurkers do nothing to help town and are scummy. As such, I will and I encourage others, to pressure lurkers to post. That is quite a lot more content than his first post in this thread:
This is his first post in the thread. While it might not seem like a big deal, I don't like that he doesn't have a casual opening post. He was present at the beginning of the game, so why wouldn't he post something like everyone else did? It indicates that he is uncomfortable in the thread.
To avoid being seen as a lurker, hz siezes on the first thing that he can: he basically repeats what I said about Spicy. He's posting just for the sake of posting, because this post is purely a restatement of what has already been said.
He does this again later, in the NN/claim clusterfuck, even though I had already said all of this:
On June 24 2013 12:24 hzflank wrote:
Another reason why I do not think NN should claim is that the scum ideally want to kill good town roles and the last townie they want to kill is the NN. While the NN does not claim they may be targeted for a night kill, and I would much prefer NN to be night killed that for a tracker etc to be night killed.
On June 24 2013 12:01 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:55 Chromatically wrote:
Or a framer/scum tracker not carrying the hit can claim NN if they see that no one else has done so, and become "confirmed town".
HS, who's scum? That would be a risky claim though, as if we do end up lynching town I would rather lynch NN than any other town member. This is also why I do not think that NN should claim though.
What's the point of this post?
Seriously, look at this from a town perspective and find the point that this post makes. It literally says nothing.
He posts stuff that has already been said because he's trying hard to look for any way to post without actually contributing.
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Also note the subtle playing of the "noob card" here:
On June 24 2013 12:18 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:53 Spicydinosaur wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2013 11:43 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:25 Chromatically wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2013 11:17 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:13 Chromatically wrote:On June 24 2013 11:02 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone Well, it's hard to decide whether the "hey" part or the "everyone" part is scummier. Really a toss up. What could you possibly expect me to explain? You're taking this awfully seriously. Why did you take so long to reply if you were in the thread? Not taking it super seriously, just busting you back. I posted in the thread then went back to reddit. Checked the thread again after a few minutes. I'll be around tonight and early tomorrow morning. And hey Xzavier. Hmm. In both other newbie games, you started out with a policy post about lurkers. Any particular reason why you changed for this game? I noticed that too. This is Spicy's first post in his previous game, where he was town: Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 10:47 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone, I'll get the ball rolling. One of the most important things I've learned about day 1 is to make sure that town is active and posting USEFUL information and not just fluff. Lurkers do nothing to help town and are scummy. As such, I will and I encourage others, to pressure lurkers to post. That is quite a lot more content than his first post in this thread: Sheeping off of others opinions already? Also heres the QT chat i was referring too. Though i dont know how to post to a specific QT box Heres the QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/YXgCU77iVMsaand its posts: 11, 16, 21. Spicydinosaur http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18810769+ Show Spoiler +
Fluffity fluff fluff fluff, I will, Fluffity fluff.
vote spicy as not the towniest MOFU in thread.
umasi xzav and yvanna are town
random guy that thinks hes better than he is and fferyl are probably town but not that much
i'd lynch firere and spicy for now
not sure about the third
spicy should be killed with fire
Furthermore you should look back at my other 2 games if you want to see what my openings were. They too were different. Fair enough. To be honest I am surprised that you got those negative comments for your first post in that thread, but then what do I know? I do not think that talk of sheeping (I had already started my post when he posted his) on day one is useful, but I do believe you as to why your first post was just the two words.
"Oh, remember that I'm just a noob, so don't mind me if I don't try to find scum at all."
Not inconceivable from town, but more likely from scum.
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Posting without really saying anything = scum
##Vote: hzflank
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I've been feeling Tofu as town.
His opinion about meta is really wierd, but I think it's town-based. Would scum be willing to stand out and draw so much attention to themselves for no reason by espousing an unpopular opinion? I don't think so.
I don't like how conciliatory he is about his read on you ("I am not saying you are definitely scum or anything like that."), that feels like he's trying not to cause waves.
In general though, he seems comfortable in-thread and he's freely posting.
Also,
On June 24 2013 12:36 FirmTofu wrote:
I actually do believe Spicydinosaur is scummy, but not for the reasons that Hurricane Sponge states.
In all of his posts, he is extremely defensive. At the slightest mention of someone accusing him of anything, he flares up in his own defense. This could be due to his personality or it could be that he is extremely afraid of getting lynched. If it is indeed the latter, he is likely to be a powerful role, town or mafia. This is my preliminary assessment.
(It's funny that this real analysis is in agreement with my fluff analysis at the beginning of the game)
I think the first sentence shows a clear town urge to find scum. As scum, it would be easy to sheep Sponge's read on you. He feels that it's necessary to clarify his personal reasoning, though, which means that he's honestly thinking about who is scum.
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No one has any opinions on hz?
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On June 25 2013 01:57 Onegu wrote:Town at this point he doesnt have many posts but what he does post are scum hunts and his view on the NN idea, not much fluff amd not any sheeping.
What do you mean "not much fluff and not any sheeping"? That's pretty much the whole case. He's posted things that I've already said (sheeping) and he's posting things that say nothing (fluff). It's totally scum-motivated.
The NN thing is not alignment-based, which is why I'd prefer if we stopped talking about it. It's very easy for scum to comment on, but it's possible for town to comment as well, so you can't determine anything.
On June 25 2013 02:08 Spicydinosaur wrote:Just got done reading it. I completely agree on your first point as I had a similar feeling. The one thing I've been liking out of him was his conversation with tofu. He really seems to be trying to push tofu and actually getting a good reaction out of him. Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 13:52 hzflank wrote:On June 24 2013 13:34 FirmTofu wrote:On June 24 2013 13:22 hzflank wrote:On June 24 2013 13:00 Chromatically wrote:
hz, do you have any scumreads? At the moment I am looking at FirmTofu. His chain of attack and defense looks like: Attack Chromatically Attack Xzavier Attack Hurricane Attack Spicy Defend Hurricane Defend Xzavier Attack Spicy For some reason the defenses seem a little out of place to me, especially the defense on Xzavier. On the other hand I believe Hurricane to be town as if he were scum then he is very brave to make the first post that he did. I am also very aware that I made an slightly extended attack on Spicy, who now seems to be FirmTofu's main target. I am wondering if he thinks Spicy is a good lynch target because he can count on my vote.(1) He has also said twice that we should only use information from this game and not previous games. I think town should have access to as much information as possible in order to lynch scum. Therefore to me, FirmTofu is currently the scummiest player.(2) You are taking an extremely simplified approach to analyze my actions. I am not "attacking" or "defending" anyone. I am stating my opinions on how various people are behaving. If you can't distinguish between the two, we have a serious problem here. You can't say that my "defenses" are out of place without even looking at the context of the situation. Read my quote, see if it makes sense to you, and form an opinion based on that. Furthermore, this post is as scummy as scummy gets. You state that you can side with me as I pursue a lynch on Spicy(see 1), but you also consider me to be the scummiest player(see 2). How are these two chain of thoughts compatible? Maybe you prefer the term Poking to Attacking, it makes no difference to me as I am an RTS player by nature and so I attack for information. I read your filter several times, so it is not a case of me being lazy with my reading. I did not say that you can count on my vote on Spicy. I will rephrase what I said to make it less ambiguous: I am wondering if Firm thinks that he can count on my vote on Spicy, and therefore thinks that Spicy is a good lynch target. Got a null read atm.
Fair enough, but I'm not convinced by his attack on Tofu. It came only after I specifically asked him, and he doesn't push it at all. He's not even convinced enough to vote him. In addition, look at this post:
On June 24 2013 12:07 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 12:01 FirmTofu wrote:
As an aside, I would prefer if the accusations remained within the confines of this game and this game only. That is to say, judging people on the differences between their past games and this one is a rather boring way to play the game. But on day one, is that not all we have to go off of?
Just a few posts later, hz says that Tofu is his scumread. But does this post sound like hz is talking to his scumread? It's phrased in a non-confrontational manner. It sounds like he's talking to someone he thinks is town, even though he's claiming that it's his scumread.
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On June 25 2013 02:12 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:I've been feeling Tofu as town. His opinion about meta is really wierd, but I think it's town-based. Would scum be willing to stand out and draw so much attention to themselves for no reason by espousing an unpopular opinion? I don't think so. I don't like how conciliatory he is about his read on you ("I am not saying you are definitely scum or anything like that."), that feels like he's trying not to cause waves.In general though, he seems comfortable in-thread and he's freely posting. Also, On June 24 2013 12:36 FirmTofu wrote:
I actually do believe Spicydinosaur is scummy, but not for the reasons that Hurricane Sponge states.
In all of his posts, he is extremely defensive. At the slightest mention of someone accusing him of anything, he flares up in his own defense. This could be due to his personality or it could be that he is extremely afraid of getting lynched. If it is indeed the latter, he is likely to be a powerful role, town or mafia. This is my preliminary assessment.
(It's funny that this real analysis is in agreement with my fluff analysis at the beginning of the game)
I think the first sentence shows a clear town urge to find scum. As scum, it would be easy to sheep Sponge's read on you. He feels that it's necessary to clarify his personal reasoning, though, which means that he's honestly thinking about who is scum. The bolded part what bothers me. Trying not to make waves is a perfect way to go unnoticed in a game. Too much activity and everyones looking at you, too little and your a lurker who gets a big spotlight on you.
Yeah, that's the part that I agree with you on; it's what bothers me most about him so far. I think that overall the townie stuff outweighs it (for now, at least).
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lol 10/10 conspiracy theory of the century
Now explain to me why this master scum plot is more likely than us both being town.
Example:
He closed by saying that if Chrom starts to play a good town game then he will move his vote to someone else, which in this case will be the person that Chrom votes for because they are scumbuddies.
Or maybe his read actually will change if I start playing like town? You have absolutely no reason to believe that (unless you don't actually believe it).
Why are you so confident that both of us are scum, if you haven't actually pointed out anything scummy that we've did? It makes no sense.
I don't like your strawman on my case. You've chosen the weakest part to point out (no casual opening), but ignored the rest. It's most definitely not a flimsy case, especially compared to what you have here. Maybe you should go through it and answer my specific points. Why did you feel the need to repeat things that I had said?
Most importantly, why are you so confident in calling Tofu town when he was YOUR SCUMREAD THAT YOU PRESSURED.+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2013 13:22 hzflank wrote:At the moment I am looking at FirmTofu. His chain of attack and defense looks like: Attack Chromatically Attack Xzavier Attack Hurricane Attack Spicy Defend Hurricane Defend Xzavier Attack Spicy For some reason the defenses seem a little out of place to me, especially the defense on Xzavier. On the other hand I believe Hurricane to be town as if he were scum then he is very brave to make the first post that he did. I am also very aware that I made an slightly extended attack on Spicy, who now seems to be FirmTofu's main target. I am wondering if he thinks Spicy is a good lynch target because he can count on my vote. He has also said twice that we should only use information from this game and not previous games. I think town should have access to as much information as possible in order to lynch scum. Therefore to me, FirmTofu is currently the scummiest player.
I am very comfortable with where my vote is.
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What's really bizarre is how quickly Tofu agreed with this case. You'd better explain yourself too.
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On June 25 2013 02:46 Onegu wrote:
About Hz he doesnt post alot of fluff unless you want to count the NN posts, I also just filtered him when you asked and saw him make scum reads. Some of it maybe sheeping but I dont think scum would do that to much, at least he is creating scum reads with some thought behind them. I see newbie town who isnt confident in his reads.
Really?
Here's some fluff:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2013 11:48 hzflank wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2013 11:47 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:43 hzflank wrote:On June 24 2013 11:25 Chromatically wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2013 11:17 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:13 Chromatically wrote:On June 24 2013 11:02 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone Well, it's hard to decide whether the "hey" part or the "everyone" part is scummier. Really a toss up. What could you possibly expect me to explain? You're taking this awfully seriously. Why did you take so long to reply if you were in the thread? Not taking it super seriously, just busting you back. I posted in the thread then went back to reddit. Checked the thread again after a few minutes. I'll be around tonight and early tomorrow morning. And hey Xzavier. Hmm. In both other newbie games, you started out with a policy post about lurkers. Any particular reason why you changed for this game? I noticed that too. This is Spicy's first post in his previous game, where he was town: On June 06 2013 10:47 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone, I'll get the ball rolling. One of the most important things I've learned about day 1 is to make sure that town is active and posting USEFUL information and not just fluff. Lurkers do nothing to help town and are scummy. As such, I will and I encourage others, to pressure lurkers to post. That is quite a lot more content than his first post in this thread: On June 24 2013 11:02 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone You don't buy his explanation? I am reading through the obs for that game now. I am very new to Mafia and used the recent Roulette game as my introduction to forum mafia, so I did not follow the previous newbie games. I will post again when I have spent more time reading that obs. On June 24 2013 11:49 hzflank wrote:Grr I need to preview before I post, messed that quote up. I am so used to being able to edit  On June 24 2013 12:01 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:55 Chromatically wrote:
Or a framer/scum tracker not carrying the hit can claim NN if they see that no one else has done so, and become "confirmed town".
HS, who's scum? That would be a risky claim though, as if we do end up lynching town I would rather lynch NN than any other town member. This is also why I do not think that NN should claim though. On June 24 2013 11:43 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:25 Chromatically wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2013 11:17 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:13 Chromatically wrote:On June 24 2013 11:02 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone Well, it's hard to decide whether the "hey" part or the "everyone" part is scummier. Really a toss up. What could you possibly expect me to explain? You're taking this awfully seriously. Why did you take so long to reply if you were in the thread? Not taking it super seriously, just busting you back. I posted in the thread then went back to reddit. Checked the thread again after a few minutes. I'll be around tonight and early tomorrow morning. And hey Xzavier. Hmm. In both other newbie games, you started out with a policy post about lurkers. Any particular reason why you changed for this game? I noticed that too. This is Spicy's first post in his previous game, where he was town: Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 10:47 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone, I'll get the ball rolling. One of the most important things I've learned about day 1 is to make sure that town is active and posting USEFUL information and not just fluff. Lurkers do nothing to help town and are scummy. As such, I will and I encourage others, to pressure lurkers to post. That is quite a lot more content than his first post in this thread: On June 24 2013 12:18 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:53 Spicydinosaur wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2013 11:43 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:25 Chromatically wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2013 11:17 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:13 Chromatically wrote:On June 24 2013 11:02 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone Well, it's hard to decide whether the "hey" part or the "everyone" part is scummier. Really a toss up. What could you possibly expect me to explain? You're taking this awfully seriously. Why did you take so long to reply if you were in the thread? Not taking it super seriously, just busting you back. I posted in the thread then went back to reddit. Checked the thread again after a few minutes. I'll be around tonight and early tomorrow morning. And hey Xzavier. Hmm. In both other newbie games, you started out with a policy post about lurkers. Any particular reason why you changed for this game? I noticed that too. This is Spicy's first post in his previous game, where he was town: Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 10:47 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone, I'll get the ball rolling. One of the most important things I've learned about day 1 is to make sure that town is active and posting USEFUL information and not just fluff. Lurkers do nothing to help town and are scummy. As such, I will and I encourage others, to pressure lurkers to post. That is quite a lot more content than his first post in this thread: Sheeping off of others opinions already? Also heres the QT chat i was referring too. Though i dont know how to post to a specific QT box Heres the QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/YXgCU77iVMsaand its posts: 11, 16, 21. Spicydinosaur http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18810769+ Show Spoiler +
Fluffity fluff fluff fluff, I will, Fluffity fluff.
vote spicy as not the towniest MOFU in thread.
umasi xzav and yvanna are town
random guy that thinks hes better than he is and fferyl are probably town but not that much
i'd lynch firere and spicy for now
not sure about the third
spicy should be killed with fire
Furthermore you should look back at my other 2 games if you want to see what my openings were. They too were different. Fair enough. To be honest I am surprised that you got those negative comments for your first post in that thread, but then what do I know? I do not think that talk of sheeping (I had already started my post when he posted his) on day one is useful, but I do believe you as to why your first post was just the two words. On June 24 2013 12:24 hzflank wrote:
Another reason why I do not think NN should claim is that the scum ideally want to kill good town roles and the last townie they want to kill is the NN. While the NN does not claim they may be targeted for a night kill, and I would much prefer NN to be night killed that for a tracker etc to be night killed.
All of these posts are either repeating me or just plain useless. They make up over half of his posting.
Do you still think that he's unconfident noob town after his conspiracy theory?
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On June 25 2013 04:06 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 03:41 Chromatically wrote:
What's really bizarre is how quickly Tofu agreed with this case. You'd better explain yourself too. I agreed with it in the sense that it was a plausible theory, not that it was particularly likely. For the record I have you both pegged as town and I think you are both wasting precious time accusing one another. His conspiracy idea arose mainly because you accused him of being scum. I see his post as a long-winded retaliation against your credibility to ensure that no one bandwagons him to oblivion.
Why do you think that he is town? Did you read my case?
Where's the town motivation in making up a story purely to hurt my credibility?
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Your explanation's fair. It still doesn't excuse the large amount of fluff and general bad feel I get from your early posting (not that's really explainable).
I assume that you're busy right now answering my other questions about your case, so in addition:
On June 25 2013 04:17 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 04:06 FirmTofu wrote:On June 25 2013 03:41 Chromatically wrote:
What's really bizarre is how quickly Tofu agreed with this case. You'd better explain yourself too. I agreed with it in the sense that it was a plausible theory, not that it was particularly likely. For the record I have you both pegged as town and I think you are both wasting precious time accusing one another. His conspiracy idea arose mainly because you accused him of being scum. I see his post as a long-winded retaliation against your credibility to ensure that no one bandwagons him to oblivion. While I may obviously be incorrect, it was not retaliation. Before Chrom voted for me I had already decided that if Aqua moves his vote off of Chrom and then Chrom makes a case against me then they are working together.
When did you decide this? Right when you saw Aqua's case on me?
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Alakaslam and Xzavier, what do you think about what's happening? Top scumreads?
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On June 25 2013 05:06 hzflank wrote:
I started out by coming to the conclusion that you were either both town or both scum. Aqua's first post looked like a weak poke on a Chrom that he perceived to be town. It was like he had already decided that you were of the same alignment as he was, so I thought he either had a town read that he was trying to confirm, or he knew that you were scum. I already thought that the first part of Aqua's post was a bit scummy, so I hoped to see some interaction between you and him.
Why would Aqua make a case on me and put down the first vote if he thought that I was town? Or at least, why don't you think that he thought I was scum?
It was weak, yes, but he pursued it for a bit and asked others what they thought of it.
Now, at this point what do you think Aqua's reply should be? Your scum read post did not really contain anything substantial and in fact I would say that I was in fact scum hunting (I had poked several people). I thought to myself: If Aqua takes his vote off of Chrom before asking Chrom for more info on his reads, then it is because Aqua does not need to know Chrom's reads.Aqua even says this himself in his next post: Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 21:08 Aquanim wrote:
Those reads were pretty weak, I'd like to see more from you.
And then in that same post he says: Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 21:08 Aquanim wrote:
tl;dr I had uneasy feelings about you but I feel a lot better after reading this post
So Aqua does not get what he wants from you, but for some reason feels better about you, which is why I do not think that you are both town. If you were both town then that exchange should not of ended so easily.
This is a fair point, but I'm not sure how it applies to me instead of just Aqua.
Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 04:27 Chromatically wrote:Your explanation's fair. It still doesn't excuse the large amount of fluff and general bad feel I get from your early posting (not that's really explainable). I assume that you're busy right now answering my other questions about your case, so in addition: On June 25 2013 04:17 hzflank wrote:On June 25 2013 04:06 FirmTofu wrote:On June 25 2013 03:41 Chromatically wrote:
What's really bizarre is how quickly Tofu agreed with this case. You'd better explain yourself too. I agreed with it in the sense that it was a plausible theory, not that it was particularly likely. For the record I have you both pegged as town and I think you are both wasting precious time accusing one another. His conspiracy idea arose mainly because you accused him of being scum. I see his post as a long-winded retaliation against your credibility to ensure that no one bandwagons him to oblivion. While I may obviously be incorrect, it was not retaliation. Before Chrom voted for me I had already decided that if Aqua moves his vote off of Chrom and then Chrom makes a case against me then they are working together. When did you decide this? Right when you saw Aqua's case on me? Right when Aqua said he felt better about you (above). I read that at the same time as I read your previous post. The exchange just did not go as I would expect it to between two town members.
When did your read on Tofu change from scum to strong town? Is your town read on him totally dependent on associations between me and Aqua?
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Okay, last question:
On June 24 2013 12:07 hzflank wrote:
Can I change my TL post timestamps to EST, so they match with the ones from previous QTs? If so, how?
Why do you want your timestamps to match QTs?
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I am far more comfortable with hz now.
His theory is really quite ridiculous, and I had a hard time thinking that he actually believed in his case. This post is so, so town, though:
On June 25 2013 05:06 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 03:41 Chromatically wrote:
lol 10/10 conspiracy theory of the century
Now explain to me why this master scum plot is more likely than us both being town. It is a conspiracy theory, which we both know means that I have a lot riding on it as I stand to look like a fool if it all goes wrong. I started out by coming to the conclusion that you were either both town or both scum. Aqua's first post looked like a weak poke on a Chrom that he perceived to be town. It was like he had already decided that you were of the same alignment as he was, so I thought he either had a town read that he was trying to confirm, or he knew that you were scum. I already thought that the first part of Aqua's post was a bit scummy, so I hoped to see some interaction between you and him. Your first post in response contained this: Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 20:43 Chromatically wrote:
If you wanted to know about someone, you could just asked me. I'm not just going to randomly post reads if I'm not going to push for their lynch, but I'll definitely tell you what I think of someone or who my scumreads are. Why wouldn't you ask me for my scumreads if you wanted them?
Probably because that's not actually what you want at all. Someone else asked me for scumreads, and I posted mine right below your post, but you haven't reacted to that at all. Does this point still stand even after I've posted my scumreads? Or did your opinion not change at all for some reason?
In the above quote you referred to your previous post here: Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 13:29 Chromatically wrote:On June 24 2013 13:12 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Chromatically, do you have any scumreads? Right now, I'm looking at Xzavier and hzflank. Both have posted a bit, but neither have been scumhunting. hz's recent post makes me feel a little better, but it did only come when I specifically asked him and I don't really agree with it. That doesn't necessarily make him scum though. There are also some other small things that bother me, but I'll elaborate on those later. Now, at this point what do you think Aqua's reply should be? Your scum read post did not really contain anything substantial and in fact I would say that I was in fact scum hunting (I had poked several people). I thought to myself: If Aqua takes his vote off of Chrom before asking Chrom for more info on his reads, then it is because Aqua does not need to know Chrom's reads.Aqua even says this himself in his next post: Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 21:08 Aquanim wrote:
Those reads were pretty weak, I'd like to see more from you.
And then in that same post he says: Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 21:08 Aquanim wrote:
tl;dr I had uneasy feelings about you but I feel a lot better after reading this post
So Aqua does not get what he wants from you, but for some reason feels better about you, which is why I do not think that you are both town. If you were both town then that exchange should not of ended so easily. Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 04:27 Chromatically wrote:Your explanation's fair. It still doesn't excuse the large amount of fluff and general bad feel I get from your early posting (not that's really explainable). I assume that you're busy right now answering my other questions about your case, so in addition: On June 25 2013 04:17 hzflank wrote:On June 25 2013 04:06 FirmTofu wrote:On June 25 2013 03:41 Chromatically wrote:
What's really bizarre is how quickly Tofu agreed with this case. You'd better explain yourself too. I agreed with it in the sense that it was a plausible theory, not that it was particularly likely. For the record I have you both pegged as town and I think you are both wasting precious time accusing one another. His conspiracy idea arose mainly because you accused him of being scum. I see his post as a long-winded retaliation against your credibility to ensure that no one bandwagons him to oblivion. While I may obviously be incorrect, it was not retaliation. Before Chrom voted for me I had already decided that if Aqua moves his vote off of Chrom and then Chrom makes a case against me then they are working together. When did you decide this? Right when you saw Aqua's case on me? Right when Aqua said he felt better about you (above). I read that at the same time as I read your previous post. The exchange just did not go as I would expect it to between two town members.
The logic is convoluted and wrong, but I have a hard time believing that scum hz made it all up. A scum hz would have to:
1) come up with this theory (even though they're not scumhunting)
2) explain his reasoning in a clear way that "makes sense" from a town perspective
I can't see a way that scum hz develops this reasoning, so clearly from a town perspective, while actually being scum.
His next post:
On June 25 2013 05:37 hzflank wrote:
Aqua asked Tofu twice for his opinions on you. This means that if I assume that you and Aqua are scum, then Tofu must be town. There is no way that one scum would insist on an opinion of another scum from the third scum. Also, I would think that Aqua and Toku are not scumbuddies, since Tofu's opinion on you seemed important to Aqua.
My take on the reason for that was to establish that Tofu thinks you (Chrom) town. Since Tofu is one of the more active posters so far, if he thinks you town he would be easier to get on my wagon and may even make some good posts to convince others.
So as you suggested, my strong town read on Tofu is dependent on my scum read on you and Aqua.
This is some of the most convoluted association logic I've ever heard (coming from me). Once again, I can't see scum coming up with this reasoning just in order to justify their read change. A scum hz could have just said that "it was the only way my theory worked" or something and been fine, but this logic is done from a town perspective, I think.
##Unvote
However, I encourage you to look through XXXIII if you have the time (my profile). I tunneled two townies all game long and lead a voteswitch off of the GF because I was convinced that they were scum together. Not so much based on their individual actions, but more on the preflip associations I thought that I saw. The lesson I learned was that preflip association cases are really, really, bad. Your case is 100% preflip associations, but they never work out.
I would be very interested in hearing a case on Aqua based on his actions alone, if you really think that he's scum. If Aqua flips red, then that's a good time to go look for his associations to others.
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I'll look at it when I get back, as well as finish another reread. I think that we're looking in the wrong place,
I'm looking more towards the Xzav/Alaka/Stim/Meow semi-/lurker area.
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Tofu, Spicy is still one of my strongest town reads. He's very constructive by offering his opinions about stuff without being prompted or pressured. He's pushed his case on you, offered his reads, discussed hz and you with me: all essential town characteristics. If you have a specific point you'd like me to address, I can do so, but I don't see the scum motivation in his posting.
Also: this giant shitfight between the two of you is really town from both sides. It draws a very large amount of attention to yourselves, definitely not something that scum wants to do. I'm far more interested in the people who disappear when they're not the focus of attention, aka not the four main contributors of today.
I think that Xzavier is actually the one I want to lynch today.
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On June 25 2013 08:59 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 05:54 Chromatically wrote:Okay, last question: On June 24 2013 12:07 hzflank wrote:
Can I change my TL post timestamps to EST, so they match with the ones from previous QTs? If so, how? Why do you want your timestamps to match QTs? Why did you ask the above question to me?
I was just wondering if you really wanted your timestamps to match the scum QTs, since I couldn't think of any other reason why you'd want to match QT times with thread times.
Just fishing, really, didn't expect to get anything.
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Most of the Xzavier stuff is really obvious: look at early day 1 and his filter. He spams a lot, posts things that are meaningless, etc. His posts feel loose and casual, but that could easily be an act.
On June 24 2013 12:35 Xzavier wrote:
Fuck me, i just typed somethign really nice all out and accidentally switched windows. Take two:
First actual post of this game:
This is my first game involving tracker/watcher/ect.
Okay, from what iv learned so far is that town has some borderline useless roles (tracker watcher)
The opprotunities where they would be beneficial are so rare that its hardly useful, and with the exisance of a NN it could all be BS. So there really is barely any information to gain, and if you do get any of this slightly more than useless info, its unreliable.
But, the flipside. We have Parity cop who can effectively check two people every night. He shouldnt claim. Unless he is getting lynched (and we will still lynch you, mind this) You should say who you have found as scum, or confirmed town.
You can take your strongest town read and then strongest scum read, and compare them. if the are two different alignments, its pretty obvious who is who. IF you REALLY want to play like a traditional cop. then select one of the two names as yourself, this way you can see if they are the same alignment as you (town) or not (scum)
Seriously OP imo ^^
we also hav veteran/vigi who are strong roles as well. And as shown by last game, JK can be stupidly good as well.
I like this setup for town,
Framer does make things tricky, but the cop check is still reliable (odds of you two picking same target are rare, this is why you shouldnt claim if you think you have found 1 scum alone anyway, IF he was fraimed: our cop is dead and we lose a townie).
Framer is actually a rather strong role in and of itself.
I still like this setup. basically all the tracker/watcher/NN stuff looks borderline useless to me, as iv already stated. Obviously nobody should claim. But they arnt the strongest of roles.
Here he actually admits that his other posting has been useless, but then adds yet another useless post talking about how "strong" the town roles are by saying a lot of self-evident stuff. He's posting for the sake of posting.
I especially like the part where he says that he'd lynch a claimed parity cop.
On June 24 2013 13:37 Xzavier wrote:
If i was parity cop i would claim NN lol. be the best fucking play. But seriously dont do this.
Im just reading from phone now. will post a case or two in the morning.
Whens the deadline?
The other noteworthy post where he literally says nothing. The first sentence is meaningless.
He promises more activity later, which I never really like to see, particularly when that activity doesn't occur. Maybe it didn't happen because there was no pressure on him?
He ends with a question that doesn't matter because he knows that the deadline is about 2 days away. The exact time doesn't matter at all. I can see a scum Xzav posting this in order to "interact" a little without doing anything.
Everything else in his filter is spam. Look at it yourselves.
##Vote: Xzavier
Keep in mind, as you read Xzav, that this is not a total noob player. I don't want to rely on meta heavily (at all, really), but at least observe the fact that he does know what he's doing as town. He played a strong town game in XLII, but he is anything but that this game. At the very least, he is certainly experienced enough to know not to lynch a claimed blue.
The "noob town" defense doesn't hold water with Xzav because he's clearly capable of being a strong townie.
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On June 25 2013 11:00 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 10:44 Chromatically wrote:
I think that Xzavier is actually the one I want to lynch today. Is there anything in particular that makes you want to lynch Xzavier over Onegu? Their posting to date seems to be of a similar character to me, except that Onegu has been in the thread while interesting things have happened and still hasn't contributed much.
What I like about Onegu is that he's offered his opinions on people and cases without being prompted. There's been absolutely no pressure on him all game, but he's still contributed a bit.
He has a lot of "coaching" type posts where he gives people advice. These feel slightly town to me when they're coupled with his scumhunting because it sounds like he's trying to improve town atmosphere.
Filtering him, there's not as much as I thought there was, but the timing of his posts even with the total lack of attention on him is town to me. I would definitely like to see more from him so I can upgrade him to a town read. He's said that he'll post stuff in a few hours, so I'll assume that he's going to follow through on that for now.
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On June 25 2013 11:09 Xzavier wrote:
okay, i just want to say that half of you are fucking retarded,
now, im watching day9. after him, im going to show you all how fucking retarded you are.
Wow, you replied quickly for someone who has been mysteriously absent all day.
Also very, very defensive.
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EPT
