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On March 06 2013 07:38 Vivax wrote:
Cause I think DrH is awesome and town and I think this is the beginning of a great friendship
Problem amigo?
Yes, because you're buddying an almost-confirmed townie to try and lynch two of my town reads.
Your vote post sounds a ton like you're rationalizing lynching a townie (especially that second paragraph).
On March 06 2013 07:31 Vivax wrote:
Let's lynch Dandel for openly playing anti-town he probably read Ace's mafia guide and now tries to play that card. His reads are all OMGUS and on townies (I think DrH is townie yes).
Even for the unlikely case he's town we don't need people playing right into mafia's hands. If he's town he's trying hard to get himself lynched.
##Unvoting
##Vote Dandel Ion
Hell most of your stuff on Dandel sounds like devolved shit-flinging than anything else. Case in point:
On March 06 2013 06:38 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 10:46 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 05 2013 10:43 Hapahauli wrote:On March 05 2013 10:42 Dandel Ion wrote:
Hmm, should the second blue be a named VT too, it might be worth it to claim now.
Twice as likely it's a real blue though. So, meh. Nah not worth it. If there's a 2nd one about, you want to keep scum paranoid about a doctor or cop as long as possible. If there's a second named, scum already know the setup in the first place, right? Since they'd have a roleblocker, and one named is already claimed. So of two rb setups, they already know the real one. At this point, having a "confirmed" town might be better. Also, if it then turns out there's a power-blue left over, we'd have easy pickings. I want the easy way. this assuming drh is actually named vt. Which is... likely. Wat
What the fuck is this and how is it scummy? You have to explain these things ya know.
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On March 06 2013 07:12 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 07:08 Vivax wrote:
Prom why do you defend someone who has not been contributing anything substantial this day.
Are you not interested into getting tells about his alignment? Need I say that is scummy? I defend him because I don't think he is scum and Doc's cries of "hammer right naow!" are not helpful. I'm done defending Dan though, he can defend himself. If he cares to. You guys can lynch him, I will not be voting him though.
And Promethelax, what the fuck is this? The lack of concern for someone lynching one of your town-reads is unlike anything I've seen from you as town.
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On March 06 2013 07:46 Vivax wrote:
People I should read the posts of and play cordially and respect them and answer to them:
Hapa, Prom, Artanis, DrH, thrawn, CC, Dandel, jay
Vivax. Listen.
Can we both take a collective step back from this? I'm sorry I'm being aggressive, but all I want is an explanation for some of your stuff on Dandel. I don't understand where you're coming from, and I want to see what you're thinking.
Like this for example:
On March 06 2013 06:38 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 10:46 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 05 2013 10:43 Hapahauli wrote:On March 05 2013 10:42 Dandel Ion wrote:
Hmm, should the second blue be a named VT too, it might be worth it to claim now.
Twice as likely it's a real blue though. So, meh. Nah not worth it. If there's a 2nd one about, you want to keep scum paranoid about a doctor or cop as long as possible. If there's a second named, scum already know the setup in the first place, right? Since they'd have a roleblocker, and one named is already claimed. So of two rb setups, they already know the real one. At this point, having a "confirmed" town might be better. Also, if it then turns out there's a power-blue left over, we'd have easy pickings. I want the easy way. this assuming drh is actually named vt. Which is... likely. Wat
I just don't understand why your highlighted red passage there is scummy. All I want is a quick explanation - I don't think I'm being disrespectful, and an explanation would be of great help to me.
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On March 06 2013 07:58 Vivax wrote:
Ahh that is nice, now we can discuss things properly without what the fuck what the shit.
I actually thought he meant "named VT" as in he said that DrH's role name is named a VT cause I only checked afterwards that the House of Parliament has the unflavoured name "named VT".
So I thought Dandel was calling DrH a VT/was doubting his claim something along the lines but that got cleared up when I actually read the OP thoroughly.
Awesome. Thanks for clearing that up.
I still think we should lynch Dandel since he's asking for it. No WIFOM bullshit like "he's behaving like scum so he can't be scum".
I think a lot of the arguments on Dandel have been "I don't like how he's playing" or "he's not conforming to how I want townies to play." While I understand the temptation to want to lynch someone for those reasons, I think it's a mistake.
For one, townies play like that a lot. MrZ for example has a very "cavalier/trolly" play-style that draws a lot of ire from certain players, yet it's pretty obvious when he's town. I'm currently placing Dandel in the same category - all I see is a player drawing attention to himself and not giving a damn about what people think of him. I see that as very townie.
At the very least, no one should be lynching someone as active as he is so quickly in the day. We need to stop with the calls for blood and give him the chance to explain himself like anyone else here.
Hapa I have to currently assume you're town I would like you to go through the things I wrote about Artanis.
I have a well structured post about him and I would like you to look into Prom as well since he has accused me of things that are obvious lies but refuses to comment on them or adapt his read when I mention them. He said something about having a meta read on me he didn't want to share earlier but only came out to vote for me after I accused him of being scum.
Regarding Artanis
To preface this, I read through two of his scum-games (Haunted Mafia and Mafia LI). In both, he was captian lurker-supreme. While it's possible that he's since changed his mafia playstyle, it's very hard for me to see scum-Artanis acting like he is.
In regards to your earlier summary of his play...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400346¤tpage=13#249
...I don't find any of that scummy. What you call "fear," I view as a degree of hesitancy I see as pro-town.
Regarding Prome
He's acting pretty brave right now. Given his latest scum performance, I just don't see the scum in him.
To be frank, I think both of these reads of yours are more emotionally influenced than anything else. A major part of your suspicions against these players are that they're attacking you. What you call "lies," I see as miscommunications on both sides.
As for my own reads right now, I'm most concerned about Jay and Thrawn.
Both of them haven't been involved or engaged in discussion, and a lot of the spats right now just look like a bunch of townies screaming at each other.
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On March 06 2013 08:12 Dandel Ion wrote:Cause he scum
Please stop this Dandel.
All comments like this do is devolve conversation into petty arguments rather than anything constructive. Can you lay out the reasons why you think he's scum? Having Vivax reply seriously is only going to do good things here.
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Oh you beat me to it. sweeeet.
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On March 06 2013 08:24 Promethelax wrote:
Vivax; thoughts on jay please.
Jay: thoughts on Vivax.
hapa, why do you think Vivax is not scum?
I thought he was scum about 15 minutes ago and realized I needed to step back a bit. I want to get a couple of calm, constructive responses and re-evaluate.
So for now, I'm not leaning anything on him.
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On March 06 2013 08:27 Vivax wrote:
Prom if you're really town start looking elsewhere cause you're wasting your time if you think I'm scum.
I've gladly provided you my opinion on jay though, it's up there.
Yeah I saw that Vivax, but that's like the 4th person you're open to lynching so far. How would you order your scumreads right now from most likely ---> least likely to flip red?
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It sounds like you think Prome is town... should he even be on your lynch list?
As for Artanis, we'll agree to disagree for now, and I don't mind hearing more out of him.
Though can we both agree not to jump the gun on the lynch? I've played a TON of instant-lynch games on TL Mafia (5+), and quick, emotional lynches are very scum-favored. I see you and a lot of other players going down that road right now, and I've never seen it end well.
I'd like to see us not even considering lynching someone until the 48 hour mark. A calm and collected lynch decision has a pretty good shot of hitting scum, even on Day 1.
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While I go grab dinner, can both of you (Prome and Vivax) try to talk out whatever it is you disagree with?
Also @ Prome
You went from "Hapa is scum" to agreeing with everything I've been saying over the course of 5 hours... what happened :3
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Prome - he does have a point. He's been very vocal about lynching Artanis all game. What are the other reasons you think Vivax is scum?
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@ Vivax
Why do you want to lynch Prome so much all of a sudden? You were talking yourself down from him only half an hour ago. It feels like your top scumread changes based on who you are currently arguing with.
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What makes you think that Prome is deliberately lying rather than him just making an error?
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Yeah you're probably town.
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For my own reference:
Probably town:
DrH - lolclaim
Dandel - Trolltown
Vivax - Townie with persecution complex.
Likely town:
Prome - has a longer filter currently than his latest scumgame. Still tunneling Vivax more than I'd like.
Artanis - More :effort: than I've seen in his scum meta.
???
Mr.CC - Hasn't done much since the early game.
Thrawn - Ditto.
Jay - Very... passive...
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Yeah but it sounds cool and is a good talking point for me :3
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List O' Questions
@ Prome
Can you give me a short list of why you think Vivax is scum? Just a clear run-down of the points. Some of your arguments (particularly meta arguments) don't match up at all given Vivax's recent behavior. Case in point:
On March 06 2013 06:46 Promethelax wrote:
yes it is, look at LIX for an example of his insane but town play vs fruity or lviii for his calm demeanor scum play. I'd say Vivax is one of the best scum players I've seen develop recently.
His recent town play in NMM IV was pretty decent and not totally nuts but I still find his meta deeply indicative of a sum vivax.
There are many adjectives I could use to describe Vivax's play right now, but "calm" isn't one of them.
@ Thrawn
The only thing you've done so far is tunnel Prome. That's not much from what I usually see out of your town play in the early hours. Can you give us read-updates?
@ Mr.CC
You literally haven't posted any reads. Do something about that pl0x.
@ Jay
Two things concern me about your play right now:
1) You seem to be "going with the flow" a lot.
Things you've done so far...
... Voting Vivax after everyone was suspicious of him.
... Supporting a Dandel lynch when Vivax/DrH were going off on him
... Declaring Vivax town when I said so.
2) You're not questioning your scumreads
You've gone after Dandel/Vivax convinced that they were scum, yet we're only 24 hours into the day.
On March 06 2013 06:44 jaybrundage wrote:
@Vivax If I wasn't reasonable confident that you will flip red. I would go for dandel. Using pressure votes is a lot more scary when its instant majority lynch like this game is.
But that being said. Dandel if you don't start posting stuff that doesn't suck I will lynch you.
Like this is s00per confident, and you seem very comfortable in your reads for someone who really hates Day 1 play in general.
But more importantly, it doesn't seem like you're interested in figuring out people's alignments. You weren't asking Dandel/Vivax any questions and you really didn't attempt to interact with them. The only question in your filter is you asking DrH - an effectively confirmed townie - a question.
3) Your recent vote on Thrawn
In the quote above, you were so s00per convinced that Dandel was scum, saying you'd vote him if you weren't confident in Vivax. But nao you're voting Thrawn... what happened?
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@ Jay
Could you respond to the two other things I posted? (Going with the flow + Not questioning your scumreads)
I'm also a bit skeptical about how "convinced" you've seemed about your reads on Vivax/Dandel at times this game. You've openly admitted to hating Day 1 play, and you seemed very comfortable with these reads, which is pretty contradictory.
On March 06 2013 11:01 jaybrundage wrote:
I saw this coming. People would comment on how i wanted to lynch Dandel but now my votes on thrawn. I wanted to vote dandel because of his complete lack of content in his posts. He (finally) started putting in at least some effort with going for Vivax. Which is a plus. He isn't a townie read my any means.
But I completly forgot about thrawn. When you mentioned him I remembered Lamp and his meta case on Thrawn as scum super lurking. That is exactly the case here. Once thrawn found out his role pm he legit stopped posting. He lurked super hard and attributed it to life reasons. Ill be damned if thrawn doesnt come back and give the same excuse.
Also if you recall Hapa I was going after DP and then you had a read on him so i backed down eventually I didn't want to do a 180 then because i was worried about how it would look. But if you have a town read on Vivax I respect that and wouldn't want to go against your reads regardless.
I'd rather see you pursue your own ideas rather than acknowledge all of mine as 100% true.
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Do get to your reads though Thrawn. I'd like to be able to read you at some point before the lynch.
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Reading Nomination Mini, you seemed pretty willing to pursue your own reads there. Also, while you didn't post much, you weren't as passive attitude-wise as in this game.
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EPT
