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On March 04 2013 10:12 yamato77 wrote:
I've been on you all game, dude.
Stop playing around like I just made this up out of thin air.
O really?
You backed off your initial suspicions early in the game when popular opinion wasn't with you. Then you came up with a random "Hapa is scum" comment 48 hours ago. You plopped down your case at 5 am in the morning, never gave anyone time to address the case, and here we are.
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Firstly, did you not read anything I posted above? His tunnels and switches this game have been non-sensical and have lined up pretty much exactly with mafia motivations this game.
Secondly:
Hrmm ok. I agree that he does get pretty obnoxiously aggressive in British Empire. However, he also gets a giant tunnel on. He never doubts his reads. He never recants a scumread and doesn't seem to reconsider anything.
I don't really see the two games as following a similar track. But it was his very first scumgame, so it's not much of an argument against him being scum either.
Anyway this is the last I'm going to talk about Yamato. While I think he's scum, it's pretty clear that I have a conflict of interest here. Even if he could prove to me now that he had a 99.9% chance of flipping town, I'd still support lynching him just on the basis that I know that I'm town.
Now if someone other than myself, Yamato, and Acro could post, I could get to more productive subjects.
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On March 04 2013 10:26 cDgCorazon wrote:
I think it would be likely that if another scum besides Dieno and Kei would've seen that their scumteam is probably going to be two less, they would play for the long run and try to bus their teammates early.
I don't think it's possible, I think that it is probable.
Funny you say "long-term" - I'm like the worst option for a long-term scum team member ever. In the last two scum games I've played, I've explicitly told my buddies to bus me early on the basis that there's rarely a good explanation for why I'd be alive in the late game.
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Yeah, trying not to get mislynched is "scummy."
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And as far as "LoL is that your defense" - go and read every damn thing I've posted over the last 10 hours or so in my defense, and then get back to me.
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On March 04 2013 10:42 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 10:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah, trying not to get mislynched is "scummy." Way to not answer my first point.
First of all, why would another scum tell Kei and Dieno, players who had been pegged as scum 36 hours into the game, to bus them? That would accomplish nothing and the smallest association case could see that as a bus.
You made a good point. Nothing I can really say to that.
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On March 04 2013 10:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
Well I think the arguments and play speak for themselves. I'll keep looking through filters and come to a vote soon.
There's not much else for me to say.
Well what's the argument? That it's possible that I double bussed, therefore I could be scum? That's just stupid.
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On March 04 2013 10:45 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 10:30 Hapahauli wrote:Firstly, did you not read anything I posted above? His tunnels and switches this game have been non-sensical and have lined up pretty much exactly with mafia motivations this game. Secondly: Hrmm ok. I agree that he does get pretty obnoxiously aggressive in British Empire. However, he also gets a giant tunnel on. He never doubts his reads. He never recants a scumread and doesn't seem to reconsider anything.
I don't really see the two games as following a similar track. But it was his very first scumgame, so it's not much of an argument against him being scum either.
Anyway this is the last I'm going to talk about Yamato. While I think he's scum, it's pretty clear that I have a conflict of interest here. Even if he could prove to me now that he had a 99.9% chance of flipping town, I'd still support lynching him just on the basis that I know that I'm town. Now if someone other than myself, Yamato, and Acro could post, I could get to more productive subjects. One of you two is clearly getting lynched. Hypothetical scenario: we lynch Yamato and he flips town. Who is scum?
Stupid question. I'll answer that if Yamato flips town.
As for scum #2, Zape's lack of "giving a shit" about the game makes him scum in my eyes. We've had success lynching two similar players, and he's the one I'd like to see hang next.
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I believe that's the point Acro.
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Acro, I want it straight from you right now - what is your read on me, and how likely do you think is it that I'll flip mafia? I've heard plenty of "oh he could have done <xxxxx> and <yyyyyy>" but nothing else.
Less story-telling, and more reads. Go.
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On March 04 2013 11:07 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 10:48 Hapahauli wrote:On March 04 2013 10:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
Well I think the arguments and play speak for themselves. I'll keep looking through filters and come to a vote soon.
There's not much else for me to say. Well what's the argument? That it's possible that I double bussed, therefore I could be scum? That's just stupid. I actually find this to be a great question. Let's hear an answer Hapa.
I have been staring at this for 60 seconds and I still have no idea what you're asking me.
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On March 04 2013 11:26 cDgCorazon wrote:T.T I messed up again... Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 10:45 Acrofales wrote:
One of you two is clearly getting lynched. Hypothetical scenario: we lynch Yamato and he flips town. Who is scum?
[rant]
Firstly, it is a stupid question. "Hmmm you have all these scumreads, but scrap them and give me new ones!" is an invitation to get uninformed bullshit rather than anything of substance.
[/rant]
As for the answer, I don't have one. I think Yamato and Zape are the scumteam.
IF Yamato somehow flips town, I'd probably take a look at you, Snarfs, and Alderan for the next one. That's probably what I'll do tomorrow during my lunch break. In the mean time, I'm not going to pull an answer out of my ass.
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On March 04 2013 11:37 Acrofales wrote:
If you want a positive case for you being scum, it all boils down to that I expect a far more pro-town stepping-up-to-the-plate attitude from you as town. That has been entirely missing this game.
You refer to CT for other games where you took a step back, but you were still actively scumhunting. This game everything has just sort of happened to you. I have the distinct feeling that the only reason that you're calling Yamato scum is because he dueled you and it's mano-a-mano now. I see NO mention of a Yamato is scum idea bouncing around in your filter until he duels you.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=64#1263
Buried in this post is the root of my Yamato suspicions.
What tipped the edge was how completely uninterested he seems in figuring out my allignment. He had 48 hours to ask me a question, interact with me, or basically do anything. Instead he sat back, bombed a shitty case (which apparently no one has read or considered my response to it), and dueled me while I was asleep.
Again, all I hear is "I have a feeling" this, and "it is a possibility" that.
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On March 04 2013 11:41 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote:On March 04 2013 11:26 cDgCorazon wrote:T.T I messed up again... On March 04 2013 10:45 Acrofales wrote:
One of you two is clearly getting lynched. Hypothetical scenario: we lynch Yamato and he flips town. Who is scum? [rant] Firstly, it is a stupid question. "Hmmm you have all these scumreads, but scrap them and give me new ones!" is an invitation to get uninformed bullshit rather than anything of substance. [/rant]
As for the answer, I don't have one. I think Yamato and Zape are the scumteam. IF Yamato somehow flips town, I'd probably take a look at you, Snarfs, and Alderan for the next one. That's probably what I'll do tomorrow during my lunch break. In the mean time, I'm not going to pull an answer out of my ass. Me? Nice OMGUS.
Yes. Deal with it.
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On March 04 2013 11:50 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 11:34 Adam4167 wrote:
This bus would blow Hero mafia's bus out of the fucking water it would be so epic.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see that coming from the guy that claimed godfather in nested spoilers..... (no offense Hapa) So, lets stop on Hapa for a sec. My reasons for Hapa being scum are inspired by my efforts to make a conclusive case on Yamato. His play is just way more illogical than Hapa's for scum. Also, if you want to talk about illogical busses: Yamato flipped his reads 180º to vote for Adam in a fit of anger. Then 24 (or so) hours later, he is on the Keirathi train. If there was 1 person in the thread at that time who could jump on the double lynch with no negative consequences, it was Yamato. Yet he flipped 180º back to Keirathi instead. If you want to make the no-double-lynch-bus an issue, Yamato's makes less sense.
Two things are horridly wrong with this.
1) He called Adam and Kei likely town somewhere in the middle of the day:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=49#975
2) This is the votecount when Yamato votes Kei:
On February 28 2013 02:19 gonzaw wrote:Duel 1 Vote Count Adam4167 (4): yamato77, Sylencia, cDgCorazon, Dienosore Keirathi (5): Oatsmaster, Alderan, zarepath, Hapahauli, Snarfs 7 votes needed to lynch. If a majority is not reached by 07:40 GMT (+00:00), both duelists will die.
It's pretty fucking clear that Kei was going to get lynched solo at this point. Yamato has no choice but to bus here.
Are we reading the same filter?
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On March 04 2013 12:09 Acrofales wrote:
What was clear about it? Syl was AFK with no guarantees of returning and Dieno was scum. Iamp and thrawn were on the double-lynch train with me. So if Yamato was scum he only had to worry about Dieno... and if he was worried about Dieno's vote ending on the wrong candidate, his voteswitch came at a terrible time anyway.
What was clear is that Adam was not going to get lynched alone. Other than that, it was Yamato who stopped the double-lynch (with Cora).
Because momentum just wildly swung to Kei.
Secondly, you ignored the first point, in which Yamato was committed to a single lynch. He was also posting that he was against the idea of a double-lynch at all costs around that time. Funny you don't get that, when you just posted the same thing above in regards to myself.
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On March 04 2013 12:21 Acrofales wrote:
Momentum HAD swung wildly to Kei: there was no way Adam was going to get single-lynched, but at that point, if Yamato was scum they had 2 of the 4 possible swing votes. All they needed to do was rally behind a group of townies (Iamp, thrawn and me).
Alternatively, Yamato could choose to stay put on Adam and be a stubborn dick about it. Dieno could go double-lynching. They just had to bet on Syl staying AFK or sticking with his Adam read. They could clearly trust me to keep rallying the double-lynch troops. Yamato could have kicked up a fuss to lynch Adam.
Yet.. he didn't, and caused what was clearly a bad lynch for scum to happen easily.
The difference between Yamato and your position on double-lynching is that you were on Keir and had said you had 2 town reads. Yamato had given a scumread on Keir, then a scumread on Adam. He eventually flipped to a townread on Adam and a slightly-less-town-read on Keir. And all of that just so he could NOT push the mafia agenda.
That makes no fucking sense.
First, you say that Yamato could have "rallied behind a group of townies" to get the double-lynch.
But this is CLEARLY not the case given what he was saying far before then:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=49#975
THAT said, I don't want both to die. The mere thought of a double lynch is hilariously stupid in this situation, and I don't like the idea of not choosing either of them at all. Mafia have an unprecedented ability to hide in this situation, because they don't even have to FAKE a read on a player and justify it, they can just say they think they're both worth lynching and not vote, causing a double lynch.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=49#978
On February 27 2013 16:54 yamato77 wrote:
Well, we should definitely not let both die.
And we should definitely make sure we don't jump the gun on being stupid with these sort of duels in the future, because as my initial reaction showed, it's mafia-favored to do something like this.
That said, I think I have some decent reads out of what happened today, so going into tomorrow, I hope people start listening to me.
Yamato had no option to double lynch. He was vehemently against the idea far before he switched onto Kei. Your distinction...
The difference between Yamato and your position on double-lynching is that you were on Keir and had said you had 2 town reads. Yamato had given a scumread on Keir, then a scumread on Adam.
...is completely meaningless. This is how Yamato's lynch actions played out:
1) Wants Kier dead pre-lynch
2) Wants Adam dead right after the lynch
3) Thinks both are town, DOES NOT WANT A DOUBLE LYNCH
4) All of a sudden thinks Kei is scum when the momentum shifts.
Explain to me how Yamato could get from step #3 to "double lynch."
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I had a scum-read on you before you dueled me Yamato. Don't twist things.
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On March 04 2013 12:37 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 12:34 Hapahauli wrote:
I had a scum-read on you before you dueled me Yamato. Don't twist things. Once you figured out I wanted to lynch you. Think about this, mafia Hapa, what is your plan if you get me lynched and I flip town and everyone realizes you actually are mafia?
Don't know, don't think it will happen, and don't care.
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You saw through my LIES
o.o
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EPT
