Sandroba's denial plan (TM)
1.GF
2.RB
3.Janitor

GF is there because it's powerful. RB and janitor are there because as soon as there are 2 rb claims or janitor is used you know the guy in that position is mafia. Also there is only 1 rb'er (besides jailer) so denying mafia rb makes claiming later much more powerful.
Every guy after that picks what ever focusing on roles that are great for both sides or are extremely good for town first (kp/protection/investigation).

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 16:39 GMT

#284

I've thought about assigning cpr too, but I'm not sure it's good since target for mafia to hit if the guy in the pos is town. So I think it's best for it to remain open.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 16:42 GMT

#287

@decon I'd rather you picked other numbers and let luck decide who takes GF at 1. I agree that it loses power if you know where it is, but it doesn't necessarily has to be you. It's safer that way, I'm sure you agree.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 16:46 GMT

#289

I do. Mafia is not likely to get shot, so town cpr is very good (infinite vigi). It's very strong for both teams. Do you agree with my denial plan? I need everyone that sees a problem with it to step up and say it.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 16:48 GMT

#290

And how exactly assigning cpr will prevent mafia from getting it or using it?

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 16:51 GMT

#295

@mattchew sorry i missed it. I would say yes, very town favored. 15 blues aren't guaranteed though.

I have a new adition to the denial plan
4.pardoner
He actually sends pardon through pms so we profit from knowing where it is.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 16:58 GMT

#297

@decon I asked this already and they are informed. I fail to see how dropping godfather is good. Means that if gf is ever killed we get a bonus mafia for free.
@toad tell me how assigning cpr will help to keep it off mafia hands. GF is strong because it's imunity to checks + 1 free kill. But it's way stronger as mafia so that's why it's in the denial plan. Unlike cpr which is strong as both alignments.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 16:59 GMT

#298

On May 15 2012 01:54 Mattchew wrote:

Show nested quote +

Ok.. so what if we assigned everyone to enter a number and also assigned them a role. It would create a pre-game accountability for people and we would have better shot of getting 10+ roles to town...

theres something wrong with this plan that needs to be pointed out to me.. i just cant figure out what it is yet

it's town favored if mafia doesn't know exactly where all important blues are. There is not enough protection roles around to make this work. And it's very good for SK too. So yeah it sucks for town.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 17:03 GMT

#302

I want to keep roles that are only strong for mafia away from them yes. Mafia picking cpr is high risk cuz town will want to do it too so it's +e.v. not to assign it. Also assigning those roles means that if mafia gets the spot and ever uses it they claim scum.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 17:08 GMT

#306

I would totally pick cpr. Give me kp and I'll give you dead scum. Trust me it's more effective to leave it up for grabs. Mafia can't pick it safely, they might end up vanilla.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 17:19 GMT

#311

@toad sorry i misread your post. You think mafia is more likely to get it if we don't assign it. Maybe you are right. But they also have to risk becoming vanilla unless they get number 5 spot. Number 5 can always pick cpr anyway if he is town. So it's really comes down to probability of mafia getting an specific spot, which is always the same.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 17:22 GMT

#312

If you want to opose the plan be specific and give me numbers and real concrete examples. General stuff like "it's dangerous" or "mafia will get the roles they want" don't really help. Taking out those roles do the exact oposite, since it leaves roles that both mafia and town want, so if mafia wants powerful roles they will have to risk getting vanilla.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 14 2012 18:35 GMT

#324

You guys are missing the point. The point is to deny roles that should never be used as town and are very good picks as mafia. CPR or a couple others mentioned are going to be used and wanted as both alignments. So it doesn't really makes sense to deny them. Also @toad the calculation you did is ??? The chance of mafia or sk being number 5 is the same as any other number which is 25% always. If number 5 townie picks cpr and gets vanilla that means one of the guys above him is mafia.
So let me reiterate. GF screws up a lot of stuff and is assigned because it's powerful only as scum. RB/janitor/pardoner are powerful only as scum and give us a free scum if they are ever used. That's why they are assigned. CPR being assigned doesn't net us free scum, since we can't say who performed the kill and a townie cpr should be trying to kill scum with it anyway.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 15 2012 04:21 GMT

#415

Yeah if we assign CPR we have to confirm it because it can be dropped and that's a loss of one town role and leaves the CPR open for shots in case he is town. Also as qatol said there are plenty of roles that have kp and we can't really track who the cpr shoots so really I don't see the point of assigning the role.
Also there is no need to confirm janitor as the usage of the role means the assigned spot is scum, if he dropped it or not. That's the same with RB and pardoner if we assign them, so that's why it's a good deal to do it.
I never said townie CPR should be shooting every night, but he is an infinite vigi and at town hands it does tilt the balance towards it. There is a reason why a game is considered imba when town has more kp then scum, and that's because kp is the most powerful thing in the game.
Bottom line is I don't think it's worth it to invest 2 roles in "denying cpr", specially since doing so doesn't acomplish what it is supposed to acomplish. The RB blocking cpr does a slightly better job if we want to do it, but that would require assigning cpr, confirming it and have it useless forever.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 16 2012 14:24 GMT

#530

I want to pick mason. If someone plans to pick it, say so, so I can try something else. I don't see a reason not to claim that you are picking it, so there ya go. You guys on top can concentrate in essential roles.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 16 2012 14:38 GMT

#536

@quatol If I were mafia this game I would concentrate on kp. With CPR out of the question I would try to take JOAT and Vigilante early and leave a combination of GF/RB/politician/pardoner to the last 2 guys. As SK, if I got an early pos I'd probably take traitor or bulletbill.

sandroba

Brazil4458 Posts

May 17 2012 18:46 GMT

#686

@Palmar What is your reasoning for picking pardoner at your position?

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