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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 20 2012 22:13 Mattchew wrote: decon I would like to know your reasoning behind checking katina, were you not allowed to check dead people? because a scum's masons are much more valuable then a townies Not allowed check dead people. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
At what time exactly did you mason Kurumi, and why? | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On March 17 2012 13:50 Mattchew wrote: i dont know who he checked last night he was gonna tell me close to deadline but wasnt around... and then was shot by some jubjub before he got back On March 20 2012 01:15 Mattchew wrote: people that didn't vote kurumi Jackal58, Caller, EchelonTee, gumshoe, Bill Murray, Katina Town, Scum, EchelonTee, Town, Bill Murray, Katina Bill Murray is checked town by Palmar (OMG NEW INFO) he told this to me before his death post EchelonTee has been nothing but towny in outside thread convo with me Katina has supposedly known about a blue role and yet that player has not died. All 3 remaining non-BM voters are very town to me sandroba you should use your PM on me ##vote mattchew well that was easy | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
##Vote: Mr.Wiggles | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/16/12 05:25 hahahahahahahaah. Why do you think that Mattchew should be closer to town than scum? Same thing with Palmar? From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/16/12 05:47 Yes, I'm getting the feeling that Palmar could be scum. He came in, and acted like town Palmar would, but then he didn't actually proceed to push any lynches or scum reads in the thread. Instead, he got a whole bunch of people to PM him and roleclaim. Also worrying to me, is that Pandain PMed me before he replaced out, and since Palmar has replaced in, he has not tried to talk to me besides asking me to roleclaim twice. Meanwhile, in the thread, he's said that he's talked extensively with Mattchew and VE, as well as Caller. It seems weird to me especially when he says he's on the fence about me, as talking to me would be a good way to determine my alignment. I might just be paranoid, but it could be that he's afraid I'll peg him as scum if we talk, because I've done it twice before when he was third party/traitor, one of those being a PM game where we talked a fair bit, and once in a game where he was scum. I'm keeping my eye on him, anyways, and if he's telling the truth about killing Jackal, and Jackal flips town, he should be shot on night 2, I'd think. Mattchew, I feel has just not actually been contributing much to the game, while posting in a way that makes him look like he's doing stuff. Last time I read his filter, it was all commentary on what was happening, or one liners calling someone out without any follow-up. Original Message From layabout: It is mostly due to the fact that i am not confident enough in my reads to put anybody in the red section, so they end up there because all of the players below them look worse than them or are completely null. For now i am leaning town on both. I haven't moved mattchew since the start of day2, he has seemed quite genuine in his actions and i still think he is. Palmar was there because when he came into the thread he took charge. The things he said made sense to me and i felt like he was leading town in the right direction. However his recent posting is worrying. I am not sure why he is posting as if his emotions are impeding him, since in the past he has proven that even when he looks like a troll there is a purpose behind his posting. I do not buy his "i am never replacing into a game again" rubbish. When i was killed in Werewolves II i stopped following it but his play here is starting to look similar to it. I also received this after i had gone to sleep before the Kurumi lynch + Show Spoiler + From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/16/12 11:46 [quote]Original Message From Mr. Wiggles: I think he's one of the best bets for this lynch. He hasn't actually defended the accusations of faking his action PM, either. I don't see why the mods would write it like that, and if they did, I consider it border-line bastard modding, especially in a normal game, and if not everyone's PMs are phrased that way. Using mod PMs to look at someone is normally bad, or not allowed in the case of role PMs, but it's also normal, in a way, as faking a role requires faking the mechanics, and it becomes a way to tell if someone's lying. It means that scum can't completely fake roles and not be called out on it for how they word it, or make it. It's like if I claimed to be a Bullet-Proof townie, and said my role PM was the first act of Hamlet. If people can start doing that, it will change the way mechanics surrounding blues work, and how they're dealt with in the thread. So basically, if his PM was actually worded that way, it means the mods worded it that way, to make sure that if Kurumi shared it with anyone, they would think he is lying, which is a shitty thing to do, because then you're actively interfering with and influencing the game as it goes on as the mod, as roleclaims are part of the game. [quote]Original Message From layabout: Are you sure about Kurumi?[/quote] From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: mafia Date: 3/16/12 12:54 So why were you doubting about Kurumi being scum? skype log from night 1 + Show Spoiler + No name=layabout Jesse Huard= Mr. wiggels [13/03/2012 22:00:52] No name: hello [13/03/2012 22:01:06] Jesse Huard: hey [13/03/2012 22:01:33] No name: any scumreads? i am stumped [13/03/2012 22:02:04] Jesse Huard: I"m debating about prpl/caller [13/03/2012 22:02:17] Jesse Huard: and then node/decon are afk, which is always scummy of them [13/03/2012 22:02:32] No name: has decon done anything? [13/03/2012 22:02:44] No name: other than tell me that sometimes its okay to kill town [13/03/2012 22:03:00] Jesse Huard: he voted for caller in the thread, and not the voting one [13/03/2012 22:03:48] No name: i thought caller looked likely town [13/03/2012 22:04:16] Jesse Huard: for what reasons? [13/03/2012 22:04:20] No name: but i am unsure why people feel he looks scummy [13/03/2012 22:04:26] No name: towards the start [13/03/2012 22:04:37] No name: he was trying to direct discussion towards the lynch [13/03/2012 22:04:49] No name: the DocH thing was a bit strange [13/03/2012 22:05:15] No name: but given that "Kaller game" is named after him i expected him to do something weird [13/03/2012 22:05:53] No name: though i would to skim some of his old games before making that kind a meta judgement [13/03/2012 22:06:24] Jesse Huard: Well, what looks weird to me, isn't really that he made a case on Jackal, or the weird DrH accusation, but more what happened afterwards [13/03/2012 22:06:42] No name: he went quiet? [13/03/2012 22:06:45] Jesse Huard: Instead of actually pushing for the jackal lynch, he spent all his time calling VE scum [13/03/2012 22:07:01] Jesse Huard: and saying that if jackal flips town, we lynch VE the next day [13/03/2012 22:07:14] No name: without a good reason for saying so [13/03/2012 22:07:24] Jesse Huard: Why wouldn't you try to ensure your first suspect is actually lynched? [13/03/2012 22:07:53] Jesse Huard: Then, why do you reveal the stuff about VE, when it would be much more powerful all at once, and if it depends on the flip, after you see the flip [13/03/2012 22:08:36] Jesse Huard: Also, the stuff he says, is pretty contradictory [13/03/2012 22:09:09] Jesse Huard: He calls VE out for what he sees as trying to set himself up to look good no matter what the flip is, while he does the same thing himself [13/03/2012 22:09:36] Jesse Huard: also, it's kind've weird, because if he was mafia, he should know what the flip is, so I don't get what he's saying, in a way [13/03/2012 22:10:00] Jesse Huard: if VE was mafia, he should know what the flip is, so why would he set himself up to look good both ways, according to caller* [13/03/2012 22:11:32] No name: plus the "thank you prplhz stuff" read like nonsense [13/03/2012 22:12:04] Jesse Huard: yeah, I can't tell yet, whether he's actually scum, or just throwing crap around, though [13/03/2012 22:14:01] No name: It's seems a little odd [13/03/2012 22:14:46] No name: that most of his accusations against Jackal were based upon him criticising his own bad reasoning and suggesting "a plan" [13/03/2012 22:15:48] No name: when Jackal probably is the role he claimed and he managed to start a discussion that was not all that bad [13/03/2012 22:16:12] No name: and i think that was all he intended to do when he said we should announce PM's [13/03/2012 22:16:57] Jesse Huard: yeah [13/03/2012 22:17:03] Jesse Huard: Also, the idea had some merits [13/03/2012 22:17:42] Jesse Huard: Well, I'm going to go do some homework, now, I'll be back later. If you want to write stuff to me, I'll read it when I get back [13/03/2012 22:17:51] No name: cool [13/03/2012 22:21:08] No name: Now in my experience "scumslips" are not very common so when caller says he found one in this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13896263 , i think that he is trying to make people doubt VE whilst making himself look useful [13/03/2012 22:23:00] No name: In spite of all of the accusations leveled against Jitsu and in spite of my argument with him i believe he has town's interest in mind when he is posting [13/03/2012 22:24:03] No name: his vote for prp is terrible [13/03/2012 22:25:20] No name: I am in contact with Bill Murray,we have not said much due to crappy timezones [13/03/2012 22:31:36] No name: Jaybrundage: when i read this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13887349 i thought like Jay showed that his actions make more sense from a town persctive than scum one [13/03/2012 22:34:20] No name: i do not see why mafia would defend themself by saying that basically all they have done so far had been to fish for reactions [13/03/2012 22:36:38] No name: when he says " I say i do agree with lynching liars and Lurkers. However i suggest we use them as guidelines. " i he is making a mute point, that he did not need to make in the first place and that he didn't need to emphasise [13/03/2012 22:37:05] No name: I also think its strange that Jaybrundage says he thinks Kurumi would be the traitor, since I find it very difficult to figure out Kurumi's motivations for posting and he is not always serious. [13/03/2012 22:37:38] No name: I do not see why you would be speculating about the traitor like that as town [13/03/2012 22:39:25] No name: So Wiggles, when you are looking for scum do you differentiate between scum and traitors? and if you think a player is one of the two and you want to lynch them, wouldn't you call them scum rather than traitor as that is more likely to sway people to lynch them? [14/03/2012 02:20:07] Jesse Huard: When I look for scum, the first thing I do is just look for them acting scummily. If it's a game with multiple factions, i.e. 2 mafia families, sk and mafia, mafia and traitors, I might try to differentiate between them, especially if my read relies on associative tells [14/03/2012 02:21:01] Jesse Huard: If I had a choice between scum and traitor, and if the traitor wasn't called out as a traitor, I'd lynch the scum. Th e thing is, you can't be 100% sure, so if you think they're scum, you lynch them no matter if they might be traitor or normal mafia [14/03/2012 02:21:52] Jesse Huard: I'd probably just call them scum, but I think that's more of a personal choice, as people don't always follow optimal play, and it might just be an oversight [14/03/2012 02:22:27] Jesse Huard: personally, if I was the traitor, it seems pretty hard to actually get added to the scum team, so what I'd do instead, is just try to cause as much chaos in the town as I could [14/03/2012 02:23:25] Jesse Huard: this doesn't neccessarily mean act like Kurumi is, but it could be something like push a bunch of cases I know are wrong, to waste town's time, and push bad cases, or oppose things, and make stuff difficult. Basically, act as anti-town as I could, while passing it off as bad play, and avoid the lynch +##unvote i don't know what to conclude | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Back in 4 hours to see what's up. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 20 2012 23:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: School is blocking the last three pages of this thread, we have a retarded-ass filter. Back in 4 hours to see what's up. Who did you mason | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On March 16 2012 01:43 Palmar wrote: Bill Murray needs to die for lack of effort Jackal needs to die for not shooting night 1 Mr. Wiggles needs to die because he doesn't seem to care about how this game is going, just popping by to drop stupid posts every once in a while. DrH needs to die for not wanting jackal to shoot and being in general pretty complacent with how badly the game is going Caller needs to die because VE says he's scum Kurumi needs to die for claiming having gotten information with his role PM which just doesn't fit. I know I didn't get any. deconduo needs to die for just being afk, useless and shitty. Abenson needs to die for lurking. Curu needs to die for sheeping me without a question, yet providing very little except the case on jackal . If jackal flips scum he's town though. prplhz needs to die because he did something incredibly dumb with his role if he's telling the truth about it. If you kill this list, dear townies, we'll win. Don't even think about killing anyone outside the list before those people are all dead. On March 16 2012 01:38 Palmar wrote: let's kill everyone who isnt' obvious town obvious town being mattchew, sentinel, me, jitsu, gumshoe and maybe katina and rgTS. Bill Murray was checked and cleared Caller and Kurumi Flipped scum Palmar, jitsu and gumshoe flipped town Decon and Curu IMO have improved dramatically Prp and Jackal are dead This leaves what should be our next 3 lynches barring unforseen changes Mr. Wiggles needs to die because he doesn't seem to care about how this game is going, just popping by to drop stupid posts every once in a while. Abenson needs to die for lurking. DrH needs to die for not wanting jackal to shoot and being in general pretty complacent with how badly the game is going do not forget the dead | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 20 2012 23:37 Mattchew wrote: Bill Murray was checked and cleared Caller and Kurumi Flipped scum Palmar, jitsu and gumshoe flipped town Decon and Curu IMO have improved dramatically Prp and Jackal are dead This leaves what should be our next 3 lynches barring unforseen changes Mr. Wiggles needs to die because he doesn't seem to care about how this game is going, just popping by to drop stupid posts every once in a while. Abenson needs to die for lurking. DrH needs to die for not wanting jackal to shoot and being in general pretty complacent with how badly the game is going do not forget the dead Your reasoning is terrible. You take a list posted by Palmar, where if you're telling the truth, has 2 townies on it who flipped and another who is checked, and two scum, and say that we should lynch everyone on the list? How about I list 10 people in the game, I'm sure I'd hit scum too. Appealing to authority like that shows you don't actually have a basis for lynching me, or at least not one of your own, so you have to regurgitate what Palmar has said. Here's a question for you. On March 17 2012 13:50 Mattchew wrote: You say that you weren't on your computer that had Skype on it, but then you don't say you didn't have access to your Skype, you say: Palmar wasn't around. How would you know Palmar wasn't around if you didn't have access to Skype in the first place? Your stories contradict each other.i dont know who he checked last night he was gonna tell me close to deadline but wasnt around... and then was shot by some jubjub before he got back | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 17 2012 12:03 Protactinium wrote: ![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Vroomfondel/nemy.jpg) Day 3 gumshoe has lost his shoes! It is now Day 3. You have 48 hours to cast your votes. Day 3 ends at 8PM PDT on Sunday. (03:00 GMT (+00:00) your time). On March 17 2012 12:26 Caller wrote: ##Kill: Palmar no need to thank me guys On March 17 2012 13:06 Protactinium wrote: ![[image loading]](http://rawjustice.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/eradirat-500g-tub-front.jpg) Breaking News! Palmar woke up to find himself in heaven. Holding a bottle of rat poison. There is an hour between night action and palmar getting killed. I am on desktop up until this post + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2012 12:48 Mattchew wrote: setup is weird to begin with... 18 - 4 - 1 i think? I could see scum having a killing role Palmar messages me at at 12:05 my time aka 1 minute before his death post as I said here. By that time I am in bed on my laptop posting from there. + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2012 21:57 Mattchew wrote: [3/16/2012 10:52:17 PM] Matt Kaplan: who you checking [3/16/2012 11:27:32 PM] Matt Kaplan: WHO'D YOU CHECK AND WHAT WERE THE RESULTS [3/17/2012 12:05:28 AM] Palmar: bill murray [3/17/2012 12:05:33 AM] Palmar: same as visceraeyes my post about Palmar not being around was true. at the time i was on skype, he was not. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=249274 | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
Compare Wiggles's first few posts (that discussed nothing) with all his later posts. His first few posts were so "good and logical" that like half the game decided to Mason him. Too bad they were also completely useless and said nothing. His behavior on day 1 was so wishy washy and tentative. He very, very softly tries to paint prplhz/me as scum without actually coming outright and saying it, then very softly looks like he wants Jackal dead, then starts asking people what they think about Caller. Through this whole thing he has not made a single solid stance until finally settling on voting Caller randomly without even attempting to push the lynch. Day 2 starts out the same. Palmar busts out our Kurumi case, Wiggles is completely soft and neutral. Asks Kurumi neutral questions: On March 15 2012 07:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Kurumi, you've already claimed, so would you mind explaining exactly how your role works and what it does? I've tried searching it up, but I can't find anything specific, and it doesn't mean your role is the same. It's only after Kurumi starts piling up votes that Wiggles finally takes a stance against Kurumi. Afterwards disappears for the rest of the day. Through both starting days Wiggles has never tried to solidly push for a lynch, never tried to make one happen. As a veteran player he knows that a no lynch is 90% of the time bad for Town but never tries to ensure one happens, even splitting his vote uselessly on day 1 onto Caller who he knew had 0 chance of getting lynched. When he starts getting pressured and I ask him he -finally- makes a stance post and says we should lynch Bill Murray. Too bad scummy Wiggles hasn't been reading the thread and didn't see Bill Murray has a Town DT check on him. It's also pretty interesting that he chooses Bill Murray when anyone reading the thread would see that Katina and Abenson are lurkers who are far more likely to be scum. Let's look at Caller's posts: On March 12 2012 07:53 Caller wrote: Mr. Wiggles is like Jackal-lite at this point with his love of neutrality and "not-offending anyone." If Jackal turns up red, Mr. Wiggles should definitely be given the good run around-it's pretty common to see mafia have meaningless banter with each other just to get a bit of circlejerk going around. TLDR: Jackal58 is mafia, I FOS him, if he's red Mr. Wiggles is likely red too. Just randomly tossed in. Huh? If Jackal red = Wiggles red. With no logic, no thought process, just a random statement out of nowhere. Remember that Caller knows Jackal is not Mafia, this just reeks of Mafia pretending to bus each other. He doesn't want to seem like he's just accusing Townies so he throws in a scum buddy there for a random nonsensical reason then gives himself an out to dismiss that person later/make them look more Town after Jackal flips. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
First off he starts the game with: On March 11 2012 13:42 Abenson wrote: Alright, checking in to the game. Goal #1: Make all my post contain 3+ lines. For the day 1 lynch I think we should just lynch the lurkers to force them to talk. Maybe we should follow his advice and lynch him. On day 1: On March 12 2012 22:49 Abenson wrote: Just ignore Caller's case on DrH completely. He's just trolling. The other stuff he posted seems to be legit though. Just ignore Caller he's trolling. lol. Why would Abenson pop in from his nonposting to just make a post on something so random? Its his one post on the day and it decides to single out Caller and tell us to ignore him. In the night: On March 15 2012 22:57 Abenson wrote: I'm kinda worried that the mafia will kill Caller tonight. Again this out-of-nowhere fascination with Caller. No comments on anything else, no other posts, just something trying to protect Caller. When you look at the Kurumi lynch Kurumi randomly started posting stuff about Abenson too when it was very close to Kurumi getting lynched. He had to know there was no chance at all for Abenson to get lynched, Jackal or something was a more real possibility. I think Kurumi knew he was going down and decided to randomly name someone to try to get his scum buddy Town cred. Abenson, in about 5 posts, has clear connections to both scum who have flipped. | ||
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