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On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:
Parroting what Veli said. Yes, it is everyone's fault that we couldn't consolidate on a proper case but no, we didn't have 6 people follow BH's invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly. Sounds like mafia trying to make us think that this wasn't as bad of a loss as it was to me.
I was not ‘parroting’ Veli here, I was echoing my own thoughts, which I posted here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12620144 and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12620376 . I've already made my thoughts crystal clear on how much i think we gained by the Bbyte lynch (first link), but I am also accepting of my responsibility of not preventing it.
On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:
This is a great point (Jay either scumslipped really badly or he spends more time writing his own posts than analysing others, which is pretty bad), but Adam sure likes adding fluff to his arguments. All he needed was the bolded bit, everything else is completely pointless.
My “fluff” that you’ve pointed out here is me asking jay to start defending himself properly, because id really like to be wrong here, I don’t want to lynch another townie, but I’m not seeing anything from him that’s pushing me towards that conclusion.
On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:
This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay.
Did you even read the post you quoted after the first line? I showed him the right way it should have been said. This slip from jay is an insight into his subconscious mind.
Go ahead and revisit your theory. It is your duty to this town to examine every read you get and push it if you think it holds weight.
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On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote:
And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh
I don't see what you see at all.
I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again.
Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game:
Here
Here
Here
Here
Here
BKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them.
It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense.
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On December 09 2011 08:32 ey215 wrote:
The math:
We're currently at 8 - 3
They get me today and someone tonight we're at 6 - 3
Two more townies Day/night 3 and it's 4-3.
Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3
Two more townies 5 - 3
I actually think today/tonight is pretty damn important.
Why is your math so doom and gloom? Its also incorrect.
In your second scenario:
Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3
Two more townies 5 - 3
I assume "Jay is scum" means "we hang Jay and he flips red". That means we go down to 7 - 2.
Then you discount us from finding scum on day 3 with BKEXE a prime target after jay flipping scum.
If there aren't any surprises with our lynchings we're 6 - 1 heading into Day 4.
Hardly as bad a scenario as you're making it out to be here.
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On December 09 2011 09:45 BroodKingEXE wrote:
For anyone who thinks I am mafia, because jay is. Think about it, if I kill off jay I would only have one other teamate left, if you think I am mafia for this reason I would be killed as well. This leaves one mafia member to convince everyone else that they are not mafia. The mafia that you are suspecting me to be in would have to have a player so experienced he could take out 6 other players over the course of three days. How does this make sense?
I think you guys backed yourself into this shitty position by being too comfortable on day 1. Your team mate, who has done a much better job of staying hidden thus far, is probably reaming you in the QT for dumping the monumental task of killing 6 townies on his own, with 2 blues (if they live that long) still in the mix.
Lets not get ahead of ourselves though. Jay hangs in 20 minutes (tick tock..).
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On December 09 2011 10:01 Blazinghand wrote:
That being said, maybe they think they can out-argue me or present a better case. Or whatever. Or they'll roleblock the watcher?
They have to find him first. Heres hoping JB flips scum RB for an added cherry on top.
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If i were a lesser man, Id make some horrible quip asking JB to post an analysis on me before "realizing" he was dead.
Im not that man.
GG jay
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On December 09 2011 10:31 Adam4167 wrote:
If i were a lesser man, Id make some horrible quip asking JB to post an analysis on me before "realizing" he was dead.
Im not that man.
GG jay
Nevermind. Looks like BH is that man. (lol)
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On December 09 2011 12:31 Blazinghand wrote:
OK, I'm home. I'm gonna start analyzing but before I do I just wanted to stop by and I want people to make cases for lynching people who aren't BKEXE.
I'm like 99% convinced BKEXE is mafia. I'm gonna go after him pretty hard. If anyone can think of a better lynch than BKEXE I want you to make a super super good case for it, please. Also, keep on talking and arguing. The more stuff we argue about the more obvious the mafia will be.
man i'm feeling good. Let's see if we can end this in the next two Days, gentlemen.
Agreed.
I've had a couple of suspicions since day 1, and for the most part our reads seem to be similar. I am pretty sure I understand the meaning of your posts.
I am going to read everyone's filter, then construct a single case against the person i find the scummiest, rather than posting a couple paragraphs on everyone as I have previously.
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After reading everyone's filter (not just confined to this mafia game either..), I'm taking a more active interest in the xtfftc/ey215 situation.
xtfftc, you seem so sure that ey215 is red, are you willing to stake your own lynching on it, if he flips town? I am not entirely sold on your case on him, maybe that might change after its finished.
ey215, the main criticism of your play in TL47 was that you did nothing but tunnel WBG all game (he was town). Can you say the same thing is not happening here with Grackaroni/xtfftc? You've declared your intention to slap an OMGUS vote on xtfftc tomorrow, will it be supported by an in-depth analysis of every one of his posts?
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On December 10 2011 06:41 Blazinghand wrote:
I think we need to get out of a mindset that "if A accuses B and B flips town, A is mafia". It's certainly possible that A is mafia, but it's also possible that A was just wrong.
IF xtfftc things ey215 is scum, and if ey215 gets lynched and flips town, then maybe xtfftc is the scummiest remaining player so he should be lynched. Or, maybe, he's not. Then you should lynch whoever is the scummiest, even though xtfftc was wrong.
Base lynches off of evidence whenever possible.
*back to work*
Oh, I fully agree, and It was something I never planned on following through with.
When I was reading xtfftc's analysis, I couldn't help but find myself unconvinced. I was wondering if it was because he himself was unconvinced, which by the sound of it, he is.
I thought it was slightly rash that you put your head on the block for jay's lynching. I will admit, I had some doubts early on, especially after reading the Mini Mafia X thread, where he was erratic and not very useful... and flipped town.
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On December 10 2011 08:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:I am now starting to suspect ey215 as scumFirst he accuses Adam, but he has no evidence: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:38 ey215 wrote:
I agree we need to get votes on record due to time zones.
For previously stated reasons:
##Vote: Adam4167 Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:18 ey215 wrote:
He says here in his read that he even needs to more posts to confirm his claim!
Adam4167 - not willing to call pro town. Will see how he posts after sleeping it off.
Ok, I have only read the first 2 quotes, but take a look at the time stamps.
ey215 actually said the 2nd quote first, wanting to give me a bit more time to explain my shitty behavior, then 3 hours later he drops his vote on me. BKE, you are trying to make it look like ey215 is backpedaling on his vote. Stop misrepresenting the truth.
I'm now going back to entirely read this - very skeptically.
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Heres the observer thread:
http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/GJxP4R5Vekf
I think it clicked that you were doctor for me on about night 3, possibly day 4.
Had the mafia just been brazen enough to gun you down on any night, that's a massive blow to towns chances.
We would have lost our loudest mouth and one of our blues ^^
A big thankyou to all of the coaches who took their time out to help us out. I know I talked my coach's ear off.
Another thankyou to the hosts, was a really fun game.
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On December 15 2011 19:07 Blazinghand wrote:From Dead QT: Show nested quote +Adam4167
Im going to laugh myself stupid if BH was the medic the whole time, and the mafia we're too scared to hit him because they thought the medic was hiding in the shadows and protecting him every night. :DDDDDDDDD
Yeah, the more I thought about it, the more it just made sense.
Well played though.
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On December 15 2011 19:20 Palmar wrote:
Can you guys please answer these questions:
Did you like having a veteran in the newbie game?
Would you prefer the veteran did not smurf?
Would you prefer giving both factions a veteran?
Yes, I enjoyed having the veteran in the game. Although I wonder how this game may have panned out if the medic had saved you on N1. You would have had to push your 3 scum that you singled out on the second day or risk us just hanging you for semi-wild claims.
The veteran really has to smurf, otherwise the medic will be glued on them all game, plus everyone will just keep asking the vet how to proceed.
I think giving the scum team a veteran could tip the scale a bit far into their favor. A scum veteran will obviously be alive for the whole game bar intentional scum-slips. I can only imagine the havoc that might ensue if you dumped say, WBG in as the scum vet. A scum vet also has more influence over what his teammates are doing compared to what a town vet would.
As an aside, I actually burst out laughing when i read this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12605867
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Well hes got you there!
Haha that's great.
I actually sat there for almost a half an hour, watching you and xsksc go back and forward, weighing up.. "Well, these two sure are going at it.... its definitely drawing attention away from the town wanting to lynch me... but I had a town read on both of them... save myself... help the town.... ah fuck it, I'm probably tomorrows lynch anyway" *post*
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On December 15 2011 22:14 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 22:05 Adam4167 wrote:
Well hes got you there!
Haha that's great.
I actually sat there for almost a half an hour, watching you and xsksc go back and forward, weighing up.. "Well, these two sure are going at it.... its definitely drawing attention away from the town wanting to lynch me... but I had a town read on both of them... save myself... help the town.... ah fuck it, I'm probably tomorrows lynch anyway" *post*
Posting is always the correct decision, you see, I got a town read on you BECAUSE you decided to step in, post, help out, etc.
Yes. I'm aware now that i accidentally lucked into the best course of action. But at the time, being the first day of my first game, I had horrible visions of stepping between two fighting dogs and being eaten alive.
Everyone else keen for the next game? I think Ver was hosting one right after the shitstorm that is TL48 is over (jeez, go read that if you have half a day). Hopefully Ver's game is new player friendly, otherwise I'm sure there's another game right around the corner.
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On December 16 2011 05:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
I agree with BC that scum should've had a vet if town got a vet. The drawback is that only two players learn to play scum, but that's not a huge problem IMO, particularly when you have one or maybe even two vets on the town side.
In order for this to be feasible I think perhaps the next newbie or newbie-ish game should have 16 players. Activity is up recently and there were even a lot of new players in the normal game. Personally, I don't actually like newbie games, since I think normals are just better for new players, but they're certainly more popular recently, so they should definitely continue IMO.
The only hurdle I can see with giving both sides a vet is that the town vet is very likely to be shot on night 1. Now, the game has only the scum vet in it until the town gets its shit together and eventually hangs him (which will probably be last of all the scums, as hes the least likely to be caught saying or doing something stupid).
I don't think finding 16 new players would be very difficult, we had lots of people miss out on this game.
I think the main draw of newbie games is that we are scared to completely fuck up a normal game regardless of which side we end up on. I know I'm both simultaneously dreading and eager for my first game as scum. If I'm caught with the day 1 lynch, ill feel really bad, since the day 1 lynch is usually always a mislynch, bar something spectacular.
And ill also echo what others have said: Its a huge time investment, just to not be lynched for lurking. I lost actual sleep over this game, lying there, wondering if i could talk myself out of the hole id dug myself into, or if BKEXE was going to flip town and id feel like an ass for pushing his case (yep!).
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On December 16 2011 09:25 Blazinghand wrote:
Dude! I totally spend nights poring over people's filters looking for slipups. And I was definitely really worried about the BKEXE lynch during the last like 12 hours when he shaped up his posting. Unlike JB who withdrew entirely, BKEXE was legitimately trying to help in his final hours. He was WRONG, but he was trying to help. It was very unnerving.
Sleep, Mafia, Social Life, Academics.
Pick 2.
I even sat there and thumbed through everyone's filter outside of mafia to get a feel for who they really were. That took about 9 hours. And its exactly what 'confirmed' you as townie for me on the 2nd day. Your posting was just consistent with how you were in other threads (srsly, 3000 posts worth.... I hate you). This is why I was happy to take more of a backseat to you towards the end, I knew you had towns interests at heart (even if you did hang poor Bbyte for nothing  ).
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On December 16 2011 09:32 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 09:24 Adam4167 wrote:On December 16 2011 05:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
I agree with BC that scum should've had a vet if town got a vet. The drawback is that only two players learn to play scum, but that's not a huge problem IMO, particularly when you have one or maybe even two vets on the town side.
In order for this to be feasible I think perhaps the next newbie or newbie-ish game should have 16 players. Activity is up recently and there were even a lot of new players in the normal game. Personally, I don't actually like newbie games, since I think normals are just better for new players, but they're certainly more popular recently, so they should definitely continue IMO.
The only hurdle I can see with giving both sides a vet is that the town vet is very likely to be shot on night 1. Now, the game has only the scum vet in it until the town gets its shit together and eventually hangs him (which will probably be last of all the scums, as hes the least likely to be caught saying or doing something stupid). Town vet dies > instalynch of the other vet since he's obviously mafia.
But we, as town, may not realize who the other vet even is, unless they aren't smurfing. I know I liked EB (mainly because he was making sense and shoving BH back a bit), but I had no clue he was a vet until I read the TL48 thread and Annul outed him as a smurf account.
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EPT
