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surprisingly low on the Thresh there... Sona on the other hand is still surprisingly high up considering how squishy she is nowadays.
On the other topic, it really doesn't surprise me that there are some heated words being exchanged after that drubbing, frankly in any given sport or team that would be inevitable, they should definitely keep those arguments behind closed doors though.
Frankly they all have things they must work on if they want to be the team they can be. Wicked needs to become more diverse in his champions, Snoopeh needs to work on his S3 timings (it seems to me as if he is still stuck in his S2 role, which doesn't seem to be working anymore). Krepo and Yellowpete need to work on their coordination and matchups and champion pools and Froggen needs to work on playing more agressive champions. It seems many EU teams have figured out that if you simply ignore Froggen in the mid lane and overrun EG with fast aggression in the sidelanes they have few counters at the moment. Every single game I've watched this weekend was pretty fast and very agressive on the top/bot lanes.
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Froggen Froggen @EGFroggen
Pathetic people not even paying attention to voicecom
AxeeL @AxeeeLxX
@EGFroggen Now I understand your build, but u need two tears.
lmao
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On March 04 2013 07:54 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 07:43 Amarok wrote:On March 04 2013 07:36 Acertos wrote:On March 04 2013 07:29 Klive5ive wrote:On March 04 2013 07:27 Volband wrote:On March 04 2013 07:24 AsnSensation wrote:it's starting again, the EG curse tainting the glory of our beloved team once known as clg.eu Seems like being on EG forces you to have social media presence even if you just got stomped and Froggen joining the public blamefest after Krepo on Friday Froggen @EGFroggen
Pathetic people not even paying attention to voicecom WOW, that's a bit over the line. They can shout at each other between the 4 walls as much as they want, and to be honest they should as well, but bringing it to the public. This won't end well. It's not good when that happens for sure. I can understand his frustrations though, he basically sat in mid lane and watched his team implode over and over and over. He actually ended the game without dieing or really stepping out of position. I think the blame is mainly on him, kassa made plays and he didn't kill his tower early enough or made effective ganks. He was almost all the time afk farming mid. It also comes down to the champion selection, they should have gone for something else. Anivia gets pressured by kass and can't follow his ganks, just don't pick her and i'm sure it was froggen who asked for anivia. I think this week showed that Froggen champion's pool isn't big enough. He can play a lot of them but he's playing them with the anivia mindset. Remember his nida, always killing creeps with his spears in mid and not ganking, the same with tf, 0 agressive ulty. For me the main problem is Froggen, he's too predictable and plays way too defensive/turtle/farm. I dunno, he did everything that could be expected in that matchup. He kept Exter behind on farm, killed him, pressured the turret when he hit 6 and started roaming. There has to be an expectation that the other lanes won't feed Kass kills over and over. I do agree that publicly calling out your teammates is a terrible idea no matter what the circumstance. There's a few points to consider here though: 1. He probably did everything possible in that matchup, but he deliberately chose it and probably did even more than possible just because he is Froggen on Anivia ( killed Kass lvl 2 for fb) 2. I clearly remember there was a point in the early game where Kassadin had 58 cs and Froggen had 54 and that was after he got an early kill. Not only after Kassadin's 3rd or 4th Roam gank Froggen managed to pull ahead by ~20cs, same for the tower who only went down after Kassadin basically snowballed the sidelanes alone. 3. Giants obviously wanted to bait the Anivia pick by not banning her, but maybe Froggen should have adapted with picks,as well.
I didn't see the picks/bans but didn't he pick up bird before Kass? That's always a danger of a matchup going like that when you have a respect ban like Anivia, but as you say once he was in that situation he handled it about as well has he could. By no means did he have a perfect game, but when you're playing against a Kassadin with Anivia as your mid there has to be a better effort made by the sidelanes to ward up, keep an eye on the map and not feed him kills.
I just can't believe there are people laying the entire game on Froggen when he clearly wasn't the reason for the loss.
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On March 04 2013 08:03 Amarok wrote:
I didn't see the picks/bans but didn't he pick up bird before Kass?
Anivia was last pick, he/they picked the bird into Kassadin.
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On March 04 2013 07:43 Amarok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 07:36 Acertos wrote:On March 04 2013 07:29 Klive5ive wrote:On March 04 2013 07:27 Volband wrote:On March 04 2013 07:24 AsnSensation wrote:it's starting again, the EG curse tainting the glory of our beloved team once known as clg.eu Seems like being on EG forces you to have social media presence even if you just got stomped and Froggen joining the public blamefest after Krepo on Friday Froggen @EGFroggen
Pathetic people not even paying attention to voicecom WOW, that's a bit over the line. They can shout at each other between the 4 walls as much as they want, and to be honest they should as well, but bringing it to the public. This won't end well. It's not good when that happens for sure. I can understand his frustrations though, he basically sat in mid lane and watched his team implode over and over and over. He actually ended the game without dieing or really stepping out of position. I think the blame is mainly on him, kassa made plays and he didn't kill his tower early enough or made effective ganks. He was almost all the time afk farming mid. It also comes down to the champion selection, they should have gone for something else. Anivia gets pressured by kass and can't follow his ganks, just don't pick her and i'm sure it was froggen who asked for anivia. I think this week showed that Froggen champion's pool isn't big enough. He can play a lot of them but he's playing them with the anivia mindset. Remember his nida, always killing creeps with his spears in mid and not ganking, the same with tf, 0 agressive ulty. For me the main problem is Froggen, he's too predictable and plays way too defensive/turtle/farm. I dunno, he did everything that could be expected in that matchup. He kept Exter behind on farm, killed him, pressured the turret when he hit 6 and started roaming. There has to be an expectation that the other lanes won't feed Kass kills over and over. I do agree that publicly calling out your teammates is a terrible idea no matter what the circumstance.
I'm not buying that at all. If doing everything that could be expected in that matchup (which he's supposed to lose) is letting kass roam and kill his tower after 15 mins (and 4 kills for kass) then he played well for a hard match-up but like i said it comes down to champ's selection.
If he's that confident in his anivia that he picks it against kass how come with firstblood, kass has the cs lead and can even roam, it's beyond me.
About Krepo, yes he played awful this game, abmissaly awful but overall this week-end Froggen played worse and it showed the weakness of his way of playing which doesn't suit at all the current meta-game. I may be wrong but i thnk that's the case.
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On March 04 2013 08:09 Acertos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 07:43 Amarok wrote:On March 04 2013 07:36 Acertos wrote:On March 04 2013 07:29 Klive5ive wrote:On March 04 2013 07:27 Volband wrote:On March 04 2013 07:24 AsnSensation wrote:it's starting again, the EG curse tainting the glory of our beloved team once known as clg.eu Seems like being on EG forces you to have social media presence even if you just got stomped and Froggen joining the public blamefest after Krepo on Friday Froggen @EGFroggen
Pathetic people not even paying attention to voicecom WOW, that's a bit over the line. They can shout at each other between the 4 walls as much as they want, and to be honest they should as well, but bringing it to the public. This won't end well. It's not good when that happens for sure. I can understand his frustrations though, he basically sat in mid lane and watched his team implode over and over and over. He actually ended the game without dieing or really stepping out of position. I think the blame is mainly on him, kassa made plays and he didn't kill his tower early enough or made effective ganks. He was almost all the time afk farming mid. It also comes down to the champion selection, they should have gone for something else. Anivia gets pressured by kass and can't follow his ganks, just don't pick her and i'm sure it was froggen who asked for anivia. I think this week showed that Froggen champion's pool isn't big enough. He can play a lot of them but he's playing them with the anivia mindset. Remember his nida, always killing creeps with his spears in mid and not ganking, the same with tf, 0 agressive ulty. For me the main problem is Froggen, he's too predictable and plays way too defensive/turtle/farm. I dunno, he did everything that could be expected in that matchup. He kept Exter behind on farm, killed him, pressured the turret when he hit 6 and started roaming. There has to be an expectation that the other lanes won't feed Kass kills over and over. I do agree that publicly calling out your teammates is a terrible idea no matter what the circumstance. I'm not buying that at all. If doing everything that could be expected in that matchup (which he's supposed to lose) is letting kass roam and kill his tower after 15 mins (and 4 kills for kass) then he played well for a hard match-up but like i said it comes down to champ's selection. If he's that confident in his anivia that he picks it against kass how come with firstblood, kass has the cs lead and can even roam, it's beyond me. About Krepo, yes he played awful this game, abmissaly awful but overall this week-end Froggen played worse and it showed the weakness of his way of playing which doesn't suit at all the current meta-game. I may be wrong but i thnk that's the case.
The problem is the constraint of the champion of Anivia vs Kass. Anivia can't teleport around like Kass; so obviously her side lane presence was weak. But if you saw those ganks, they were soooooo beyond fucking telegraphed; but no ward vision costed EG the game. If that was any other top team, they would've seen the kass ganks coming from a mile away.
Froggen clearly frustrated, cuz I'm guessing he called the mia's and the kass ganks, and team didn't respond correctly to them.
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On March 04 2013 08:13 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 08:09 Acertos wrote:On March 04 2013 07:43 Amarok wrote:On March 04 2013 07:36 Acertos wrote:On March 04 2013 07:29 Klive5ive wrote:On March 04 2013 07:27 Volband wrote:On March 04 2013 07:24 AsnSensation wrote:it's starting again, the EG curse tainting the glory of our beloved team once known as clg.eu Seems like being on EG forces you to have social media presence even if you just got stomped and Froggen joining the public blamefest after Krepo on Friday Froggen @EGFroggen
Pathetic people not even paying attention to voicecom WOW, that's a bit over the line. They can shout at each other between the 4 walls as much as they want, and to be honest they should as well, but bringing it to the public. This won't end well. It's not good when that happens for sure. I can understand his frustrations though, he basically sat in mid lane and watched his team implode over and over and over. He actually ended the game without dieing or really stepping out of position. I think the blame is mainly on him, kassa made plays and he didn't kill his tower early enough or made effective ganks. He was almost all the time afk farming mid. It also comes down to the champion selection, they should have gone for something else. Anivia gets pressured by kass and can't follow his ganks, just don't pick her and i'm sure it was froggen who asked for anivia. I think this week showed that Froggen champion's pool isn't big enough. He can play a lot of them but he's playing them with the anivia mindset. Remember his nida, always killing creeps with his spears in mid and not ganking, the same with tf, 0 agressive ulty. For me the main problem is Froggen, he's too predictable and plays way too defensive/turtle/farm. I dunno, he did everything that could be expected in that matchup. He kept Exter behind on farm, killed him, pressured the turret when he hit 6 and started roaming. There has to be an expectation that the other lanes won't feed Kass kills over and over. I do agree that publicly calling out your teammates is a terrible idea no matter what the circumstance. I'm not buying that at all. If doing everything that could be expected in that matchup (which he's supposed to lose) is letting kass roam and kill his tower after 15 mins (and 4 kills for kass) then he played well for a hard match-up but like i said it comes down to champ's selection. If he's that confident in his anivia that he picks it against kass how come with firstblood, kass has the cs lead and can even roam, it's beyond me. About Krepo, yes he played awful this game, abmissaly awful but overall this week-end Froggen played worse and it showed the weakness of his way of playing which doesn't suit at all the current meta-game. I may be wrong but i thnk that's the case. The problem is the constraint of the champion of Anivia vs Kass. Anivia can't teleport around like Kass; so obviously her side lane presence was weak. But if you saw those ganks, they were soooooo beyond fucking telegraphed; but no ward vision costed EG the game. If that was any other top team, they would've seen the kass ganks coming from a mile away. Froggen clearly frustrated, cuz I'm guessing he called the mia's and the kass ganks, and team didn't respond correctly to them.
It honestly feels a bit like the QQ thread. "I won mid but he went roaming and killed my team even though I called mia."
Feels like some teams are comfortable in baiting the Anivia pick at this point - Froggen is a monster on Anivia but he can't stop pushes in 3 lanes
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On March 04 2013 08:17 Amethyst21 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 08:13 wei2coolman wrote:On March 04 2013 08:09 Acertos wrote:On March 04 2013 07:43 Amarok wrote:On March 04 2013 07:36 Acertos wrote:On March 04 2013 07:29 Klive5ive wrote:On March 04 2013 07:27 Volband wrote:On March 04 2013 07:24 AsnSensation wrote:it's starting again, the EG curse tainting the glory of our beloved team once known as clg.eu Seems like being on EG forces you to have social media presence even if you just got stomped and Froggen joining the public blamefest after Krepo on Friday Froggen @EGFroggen
Pathetic people not even paying attention to voicecom WOW, that's a bit over the line. They can shout at each other between the 4 walls as much as they want, and to be honest they should as well, but bringing it to the public. This won't end well. It's not good when that happens for sure. I can understand his frustrations though, he basically sat in mid lane and watched his team implode over and over and over. He actually ended the game without dieing or really stepping out of position. I think the blame is mainly on him, kassa made plays and he didn't kill his tower early enough or made effective ganks. He was almost all the time afk farming mid. It also comes down to the champion selection, they should have gone for something else. Anivia gets pressured by kass and can't follow his ganks, just don't pick her and i'm sure it was froggen who asked for anivia. I think this week showed that Froggen champion's pool isn't big enough. He can play a lot of them but he's playing them with the anivia mindset. Remember his nida, always killing creeps with his spears in mid and not ganking, the same with tf, 0 agressive ulty. For me the main problem is Froggen, he's too predictable and plays way too defensive/turtle/farm. I dunno, he did everything that could be expected in that matchup. He kept Exter behind on farm, killed him, pressured the turret when he hit 6 and started roaming. There has to be an expectation that the other lanes won't feed Kass kills over and over. I do agree that publicly calling out your teammates is a terrible idea no matter what the circumstance. I'm not buying that at all. If doing everything that could be expected in that matchup (which he's supposed to lose) is letting kass roam and kill his tower after 15 mins (and 4 kills for kass) then he played well for a hard match-up but like i said it comes down to champ's selection. If he's that confident in his anivia that he picks it against kass how come with firstblood, kass has the cs lead and can even roam, it's beyond me. About Krepo, yes he played awful this game, abmissaly awful but overall this week-end Froggen played worse and it showed the weakness of his way of playing which doesn't suit at all the current meta-game. I may be wrong but i thnk that's the case. The problem is the constraint of the champion of Anivia vs Kass. Anivia can't teleport around like Kass; so obviously her side lane presence was weak. But if you saw those ganks, they were soooooo beyond fucking telegraphed; but no ward vision costed EG the game. If that was any other top team, they would've seen the kass ganks coming from a mile away. Froggen clearly frustrated, cuz I'm guessing he called the mia's and the kass ganks, and team didn't respond correctly to them. It honestly feels a bit like the QQ thread. "I won mid but he went roaming and killed my team even though I called mia." Feels like some teams are comfortable in baiting the Anivia pick at this point - Froggen is a monster on Anivia but he can't stop pushes in 3 lanes
When kass roam happens, unless you're playing TF you can't realistically expect another midlaner to respond to the gank in reasonable time. What, should Froggen waste his time running into lane trying to countergank a Kass, with Anivia? Froggen did what he could by constantly shoving out his lane everytime Kass was gone. That's why you noticed after a couple of Kass ganks, Froggen was up by like 50 cs. If his sidelanes had avoided those ganks; and not died, EG would've been in a good spot in terms of gold values.
His lanes should have fucking warded the fuck up. You watch any of the top team games, its a game of wards. It's not like Giants REMOVED EG's vision, EG simply didn't have the initial ward coverage. There was no fancy wave of pinkwards placed to clear EG vision, it was simply Kass jumping into lane, shitting on Snoopeh's even more telegraphed bush ganks; and terrible positioning from wicked, without wards. If you want to shove out toplane, you best fucking have wards.
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On March 04 2013 08:03 Amarok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 07:54 AsnSensation wrote:On March 04 2013 07:43 Amarok wrote:On March 04 2013 07:36 Acertos wrote:On March 04 2013 07:29 Klive5ive wrote:On March 04 2013 07:27 Volband wrote:On March 04 2013 07:24 AsnSensation wrote:it's starting again, the EG curse tainting the glory of our beloved team once known as clg.eu Seems like being on EG forces you to have social media presence even if you just got stomped and Froggen joining the public blamefest after Krepo on Friday Froggen @EGFroggen
Pathetic people not even paying attention to voicecom WOW, that's a bit over the line. They can shout at each other between the 4 walls as much as they want, and to be honest they should as well, but bringing it to the public. This won't end well. It's not good when that happens for sure. I can understand his frustrations though, he basically sat in mid lane and watched his team implode over and over and over. He actually ended the game without dieing or really stepping out of position. I think the blame is mainly on him, kassa made plays and he didn't kill his tower early enough or made effective ganks. He was almost all the time afk farming mid. It also comes down to the champion selection, they should have gone for something else. Anivia gets pressured by kass and can't follow his ganks, just don't pick her and i'm sure it was froggen who asked for anivia. I think this week showed that Froggen champion's pool isn't big enough. He can play a lot of them but he's playing them with the anivia mindset. Remember his nida, always killing creeps with his spears in mid and not ganking, the same with tf, 0 agressive ulty. For me the main problem is Froggen, he's too predictable and plays way too defensive/turtle/farm. I dunno, he did everything that could be expected in that matchup. He kept Exter behind on farm, killed him, pressured the turret when he hit 6 and started roaming. There has to be an expectation that the other lanes won't feed Kass kills over and over. I do agree that publicly calling out your teammates is a terrible idea no matter what the circumstance. There's a few points to consider here though: 1. He probably did everything possible in that matchup, but he deliberately chose it and probably did even more than possible just because he is Froggen on Anivia ( killed Kass lvl 2 for fb) 2. I clearly remember there was a point in the early game where Kassadin had 58 cs and Froggen had 54 and that was after he got an early kill. Not only after Kassadin's 3rd or 4th Roam gank Froggen managed to pull ahead by ~20cs, same for the tower who only went down after Kassadin basically snowballed the sidelanes alone. 3. Giants obviously wanted to bait the Anivia pick by not banning her, but maybe Froggen should have adapted with picks,as well. I just can't believe there are people laying the entire game on Froggen when he clearly wasn't the reason for the loss.
I don't think anyone is seriously blaming Froggen for losing the entire game - but it's fair to say his performance this week wasn't good at all, and instead of acting as if he is perfect and it's everyone else letting him down on twitter he should take a step back and think about what both him and the rest of his team can do better - together.
After these twitter posts, I really feel like their last few losses, and the game vs Giants especially were not due to them being tired, bad, not having enough practice or whatever, but just due to poor communication caused by internal tension. I guess we'll find out, but after this weekend I don't see Gambit losing their top spot in this league at all.
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And Krepo saves Froggen, unreal. Well, at least someone cares about their team.
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On March 04 2013 08:38 Volband wrote:
And Krepo saves Froggen, unreal. Well, at least someone cares about their team.
Krepo op RL support.
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Not sure if this point was brought up but Doublelift pointed out that you are supposed to have the lane swap to send the ADC/support to mid against Kass to pin him down completely so he can't make those roaming ganks.
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On March 04 2013 09:06 Para29 wrote:
Not sure if this point was brought up but Doublelift pointed out that you are supposed to have the lane swap to send the ADC/support to mid against Kass to pin him down completely so he can't make those roaming ganks.
Definitely would have been a good idea at 6. Anivia would have been fine defending bot turret with blue and mid will go down pretty quickly if Kass is roaming.
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On March 04 2013 09:06 Para29 wrote:
Not sure if this point was brought up but Doublelift pointed out that you are supposed to have the lane swap to send the ADC/support to mid against Kass to pin him down completely so he can't make those roaming ganks.
Getting Froggen to leave mid lane has always been a poblem for EG/CLG.eu. I remember some streamed scrims when Wickd's lane opponent was massing armor, and Froggen's was massing MR, Wickd was repeatedly asking to swap lanes. Froggen was basically just answering "oh you are losing your lane?", and it usually took a long time to convince him to grudgingly leave his lane, by explaining that it made a lot of sense.
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On March 04 2013 09:15 Amarok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 09:06 Para29 wrote:
Not sure if this point was brought up but Doublelift pointed out that you are supposed to have the lane swap to send the ADC/support to mid against Kass to pin him down completely so he can't make those roaming ganks. Definitely would have been a good idea at 6. Anivia would have been fine defending bot turret with blue and mid will go down pretty quickly if Kass is roaming.
Though I understand Doublelift's idea, and it is a great idea. But you have to look at it based on their position on their team.
Doublelift is the CARRY for CLG as ADC, so for him to do a 2v1 lane swap into Kass isn't a big deal, he still gets same level of farm priority, and can still carry his team hard.
Froggen is the CARRY for EG as AP Mid (Anivia), for him to go into a 1v2, most certainly means he LOSES CS, and would therefore loses farm priority, and would have to depend on his teammates to carry him.
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On March 04 2013 11:57 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 09:15 Amarok wrote:On March 04 2013 09:06 Para29 wrote:
Not sure if this point was brought up but Doublelift pointed out that you are supposed to have the lane swap to send the ADC/support to mid against Kass to pin him down completely so he can't make those roaming ganks. Definitely would have been a good idea at 6. Anivia would have been fine defending bot turret with blue and mid will go down pretty quickly if Kass is roaming. Though I understand Doublelift's idea, and it is a great idea. But you have to look at it based on their position on their team. Doublelift is the CARRY for CLG as ADC, so for him to do a 2v1 lane swap into Kass isn't a big deal, he still gets same level of farm priority, and can still carry his team hard. Froggen is the CARRY for EG as AP Mid (Anivia), for him to go into a 1v2, most certainly means he LOSES CS, and would therefore loses farm priority, and would have to depend on his teammates to carry him.
But that sort of feeds into the criticism of Froggen/EG around being unable to adapt. The team gets more out of having slightly less farm on Anivia bot and the global gold/map control that comes with having mid turret down. I actually doubt that's the reason, but if it is the "stagnant" criticism of the team is well warranted.
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After all this time people finally realize how bad Krepo is lol. But he's of course not the only problem on CLG.eu, they clearly need to be able to play more champs at a high level, Wickd still plays rumble when we all know he isn't comfortable on him, Froggen plays a very poor TF, Snoopeh is ... we'll say not adapted to the s3 meta to not be too harsh. Only Yellowpete seems to always be the same, plays average and safe, not flashy but always solid.
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There are so few really good and dedicated support players 
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Ed Ward, Patoy, Madlife and FzzF all I need to get my Support Jizz for each region going.
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EPT
