EPTLive HotS Match Discussion Thread - Page 40
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
This has a ton of information on drafting. I feel like this was a lot of common sense, but the way Dreadnaught breaks it down and applies actual terms to examples really makes it a lot simpler to keep track of. Highly recommend. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/m2J2gq9.jpg) Game 3...oh boy. Hero messes up so bad, and MVP.B does a great job with punishing it. While I still think MVP.B doesn't really pay attention to map picks much, Cursed Hollow is perhaps the most flexible map for compositions, so their counter-drafting works well here. Hero FB ETC - they don't want to deal with him and he's also clearly a counter to an Illidan composition (we'll get to this). MVP.B is forced into banning Rehgar (OP pick, do you see a pattern? FP always gets to pick a Hero they don't want to play against and SP is forced into banning Rehgar). Then Hero makes a HUGE error by FPing Abathur and revealing that they wanted to go for an Illidan comp (ideally you want to secure your tank or ranged DPS first, or Illidan if you win the first set of bans. MVP.B wrecks this plan hardcore by stealing Illidan/Tassadar, and now Hero is forced into going for an awkward comp with Abathur and no ETC. The correct pivot here is probably Zagara/Zeratul (though they can get locked out of tanks with MVP.B's next moves), but instead Hero picks Uther/Jaina for fear of 1) being locked out of a solid mage (MVP.B can ban KT and take Jaina or vice versa) and 2) fear of DShield Illidan destroying the back line. At this point, you can see that MVP.B already has Hero in a chokehold from the very first pick. MVP.B bans Sonya to prevent Hero from getting anyone who can solidly deal with Illidan (except maybe Thrall); it also means that Hero is stuck going double tank and relying on double Jaina for all of their damage. Hero gets rid of the high ranged burst damage of Li-Ming. Good choice here, but at this point, it's just damage control. MVP.B picks up Chen, who synergizes really strongly with Illidan (bodyblocks for days), and Greymane to just delete Jaina - once Jaina is out of the picture, Hero can't win a teamfight. Hero picks up Muradin, which makes the most sense, but no other tank really fits for dealing with Illidan now that ETC and Sonya are out of the picture. They spent a lot of time trying to figure out their last pick and finally settle on Arthas, but perhaps Thrall would have been a better pick. It's hard to tell why they thought Arthas was a better pick, especially since he's got a special niche in Korea. MVP.B follows up with the Kharazim for Divine Palm, though they really could have gone just about anything here. They were in such control of the draft from start to finish that I think virtually any role (tank, bruiser, healer, ranged damage) here would have been good. + Show Spoiler + Hero gets destroyed in the draft, gets destroyed in the game. Rich (AKA Oreoman) is the best player in the world, and this is the best Illidan game I have ever seen to date. Seriously, holy shit. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WRGPwwc.jpg) Fourth game of the series, probably the best draft from both teams. This one actually showed a really deep knowledge of the drafts, I take back what I said earlier about KR having horrible drafts - I think the mistakes in G2 and G3 just hurt my soul. MVP.B FBs Tassadar - their entire composition later revolves around blowing people up, so this is a good long-term ban. Hero is forced to ban Rehgar (OP pick - PATTERN). MVP.B picks up Uther after banning Tass to steal all the burst healers, this is brilliant. Hero counters with Li-Ming/ETC - ETC because, once again, they are terrified of Uther/ETC. Jaina or KT might have been a better option over Li-Ming, especially for Shrines, so this might have been a mistake. MVP.B snatches up Jaina and, interestingly, Diablo. At this point, MVP.B is building a super hard engage combo; they can tack on any melee Assassin like Thrall, Zeratul, Sonya, or Greymane (even Kerrigan, honestly) plus a secondary Support for a really strong comp. I think Hero recognizes this and bans out Thrall, but it's still just one of the many threats out there. The better move here is to choke MVP.B out of a secondary support and force them into either a second tank or more ranged damage which they can exploit with something like a Zagara or Zeratul, respectively - ban Abathur and take Tyrande (do not ban Tyrande because if they ban Kharazim, you're stuck with BW or Li Li -_-). MVP.B instead does this by banning Tyrande - if they can't have the hard engage, Hero can't have it either - and then subsequently picking Abathur, severely weakening Hero's comp and limiting their Support options drastically. Again, Hero finds themselves doing damage control trying to catch up in the draft (I think it all boils down to the Li-Ming pick, honestly) and just deny options to their opponents. They pick up Falstad for global presence (denying their opponents and "countering" a potential Abathur pick) and Sonya to limit the melee Assassin choices of their opponents. This gives them a significantly stronger early game, but MVP.B still has a ton of options available to them. MVP.B picks up Abathur/Zeratul, really strong combo - Hero has no burst healers left to choose from, can't go double support, and has at least 2 very squishy back line targets. Abathur also counters the splitsoak pressure from Falstad to some degree. A bit awkward for MVP.B since they have no good solo laner and are forced into 1-1-3 with Abathur hat soaking a lane in the early game. Hero picks up Kharazim because they literally have no other choice. + Show Spoiler + On first glance, it looks like MVP.Black won this draft, but Hero put a lot of focus on their early game power after the Li-Ming pick, which was a really smart move. MVP.B had a super intelligent set of picks that forced Hero into a chokehold again from the very first pick; without any burst healers, they were allowed to just draft a hardcore engage comp in the late game. Hero countered with a strong early game composition to try and snowball a lead, which actually worked out well for them. I actually haven't seen G5, watching it now lol. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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Amestir
Netherlands2126 Posts
Ow and the boss is called the headless horseman <.< | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On February 22 2016 20:41 Amestir wrote: I feel like I'm back watching GSL again... Come Artosis and Wolf please try to talk about the game every now and then. Nazeebo pick with gathering power spirit ult? Ow and the boss is called the headless horseman <.< Artosis talking about triple shrines coming up on Sky Temple was painful to listen to. I can understand when casters make bad calls, mistakes or forget patch changes, but that's been removed for months to the point where people don't even remember that there ever was a thing like triple shrines. I have the feeling that he doesn't actually play the game, but still casts it because he is the only other English speaking caster they have. Korea needs to import Khaldor again. | ||
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Amestir
Netherlands2126 Posts
On February 22 2016 21:17 Morfildur wrote: Artosis talking about triple shrines coming up on Sky Temple was painful to listen to. I can understand when casters make bad calls, mistakes or forget patch changes, but that's been removed for months to the point where people don't even remember that there ever was a thing like triple shrines. I have the feeling that he doesn't actually play the game, but still casts it because he is the only other English speaking caster they have. Korea needs to import Khaldor again. Agreed, the difference between Khaldors catst and this is just insane. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
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Amestir
Netherlands2126 Posts
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Amestir
Netherlands2126 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On February 29 2016 20:02 Amestir wrote: Sigh.... Wolf and Artosis please man. Just a little bit of depth As I wrote on reddit a few hours ago, Korea is stretching too few English casters over too many games. It's noticeable that the casters cast mostly because they happen to be there, not because they actually play the games they cast. I don't think that'll change until Heroes gets big enough to get a dedicated caster in Korea. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
Missed the first few games, I think, but looking forward to it. Anyone up for draft analysis? On February 29 2016 20:32 Morfildur wrote: As I wrote on reddit a few hours ago, Korea is stretching too few English casters over too many games. It's noticeable that the casters cast mostly because they happen to be there, not because they actually play the games they cast. I don't think that'll change until Heroes gets big enough to get a dedicated caster in Korea. This is a good point. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced about the future of Heroes in Korea :/. Right now they have almost no big sponsored teams compared to EU/AM...you can see that world-class teams like AsD and Team DK either disbanded or lost their sponsorship despite good results. Korea is just so dominated by LoL, all the money and attention goes there. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
I love the pairing of Li-Ming/Greymane/Tyrande + ETC stun...such a powerful early game. Johanna helps the team scale into the late game. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
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Amestir
Netherlands2126 Posts
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On February 29 2016 20:32 Morfildur wrote: As I wrote on reddit a few hours ago, Korea is stretching too few English casters over too many games. It's noticeable that the casters cast mostly because they happen to be there, not because they actually play the games they cast. I don't think that'll change until Heroes gets big enough to get a dedicated caster in Korea. Flashbacks to Doa being moved from SC2 to LoL without ever having played LoL... | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Amestir
Netherlands2126 Posts
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