In addition to the public Hearthstone panel held at Blizzcon, members of the press were invited to talk directly with two of Hearthstone's leading developers, Eric Dodds and Ben Brode. The following is a transcript of a 45 minute long series of questions asked by the attending press. The interview has been heavily edited so that there is more of a logical progression in the questions asked. We hope you have as much fun reading these responses as we did transcribing and editing this interview!
On New Features
Developers Eric Dodds and Ben Brode striking a pose
We're still working on adventures. We have a lot of ideas about where we're going to take them and how they're going to work. We know that there's going to be 20-30 cards in our first adventure and you earn them by playing through a boss or bosses. We haven't figured out the right, exact way to structure that and how exactly you'll get those rewards, but we want them to be repeatable enough so that they're super-fun to play through as you earn those reward, so however long it takes to get all those cards, we want to make sure it's really fun each of those times.
Question based on ranked play. In SC2 you have the ability to say, 'Okay, this person plays Zerg only, and so far we know what their skill level is for Zerg.' Do you have anything in place for someone to say, I'm going to play warlock, this is my tier 1 deck, this is my best deck, you know what, I'm going to try my priest deck now, and all of a sudden, are they at the same tiers? Do you have that actually separated or all of a sudden are they being paired and could that be throwing off your numbers as well, because the matchmaking system is expecting a warlock tier 1 when they're playing a priest tier 3.
In general with statistics gathering like this, there is noise in the system. But often that noise is everywhere, there's enough noise that it doesn't dispute in one particular direction or another. We also look at specifics as well. We saw some cards show up in our list that were very powerful a couple patches back, and we said, okay what is it about this and that that makes this good, we look at every deck list that has that card in it and what their win ratios are, and even in non-broad ways that are less affected by noise. So we can look at that, and also we keep up with what happens in tournaments that you guys are running, see what is happening there, paying attention to it on a micro level and vision.
I know a lot of people have three good decks, but then say, 'I want to see if this deck is good enough for ranked play', and they play it and it could skew numbers or cause statistics to be wrong, since your matchmaking system do try to get 50-50 winrates every time just based on the player.
Well our new ranked mode is going to function pretty differently. This mode will be based on your current rank and not your matchmaking rating. If you start a new season off and you are ranked 25 in league chicken, you would play against other league chickens, whether or not you were legend rank last season.
What are plans for introducing client based statistics, so you could see information like your own win-loss, class, etc.
That stuff is in the feedback we talked about from the beta, that people love, they would like to see more about their records, different classes they play with, how they've done with each of them relative to each other. There is definitely work we'd like to do there to expose more of that to our players. The challenge we have there is that we want to do it in a way that is consistent with the UI, it's not overloading or giving too much data on top of everything we have there now. We're not necessarily looking at something for the launch time frame but for a future patch, that is certainly something we're thinking about internally.
What about just raw dumps of data, so that users can do things. Right now everybody is using spreadsheets which are clunky, or there are some websites that have popped up, but you know...
It's an interesting idea for sure. We recently started posting the top players in each particular region. That's just the first step towards that, and I can imagine us doing more stuff like that in the future. If you guys have any particular suggestions about things you'd like to be able to see, or things you think would be awesome or interesting, definitely send that stuff in. We have nothing against servicing that stuff, we just need to find the right ways to do it.
So how long until we see Arthas?
Hahahahaha. You know what, I don't have any information about that.
Would you consider introducing additional hero classes? Say, it's still a mage, but has a different hero ability but still has access to the mage cards? Something like, pay 2 to freeze a character? Or have you thought about other heroes down the line?
We definitely think about tons of things we could be doing. Specifically, such as other hero skins or different heroes with different hero powers. That's all really interesting to us and something that we think about, but we don't have any concrete plans for those right now.
Are there any plans about adding achievements, such as that in WoW, into Hearthstone? Is it possible to have any achievements that link between the two games on Battle.NET?
Yes, we have talked about that. We think they will be awesome things to add to Hearthstone. We don't have any specific announcements on time frame or when they will show up, and they have become a fairly standard thing for some of our other games. Initially we were putting a lot of energy into making sure our questing system was as strong and robust as we could make it, so that's what we've been focusing on in the last few months. Looking to the future, I can imagine that we would put achievements in. We want to make that a great version of the feature as well. Regarding cross-over achievements for the games, we have no real plans for that today, although it would be a cool idea. When we get closer to talking about achievements and what we want to do with them we'll probably have a lot more to share about that stuff.
There are some Hearthstone NPCs in World of Warcraft. Are there any plans to put Hearthstone into World of Warcraft?
Nothing that we can speak of today. We do have a little game board there, but in terms of actually launching the Hearthstone client from within WoW, it's a cool idea, but there are definitely a lot of challenges associated with something like that. Our focus right now is making the best possible client experience on PC, iPad, Android, iPhone, so I think we have a lot cut out for us right now. Once we get all that super awesome and perfect, then we'll start talking about other things.
So I understand not having an actual chat feature, people can just be irritating and not very fun, but the emotes… There’s only a few of ‘em! Are there any plans to expand on that and add more emotes to the game?
We are definitely looking at expanding the emotes that we have. We don't exactly know how yet. We want to keep the UI as clean and intuitive as possible, but that has come up repeatedly over the course of the beta and there is definitely some potential to add some more there. We'll probably have more to share about that as we make it further in past release.
Yeah we're going to have a LOL emote, a YOU SUCK emote, etc...(Editor's note: This part was obviously spoken in jest.)
To my knowledge Hearthstone is the first Blizzard game to be announced and released in playable form in a single year. I'm super curious to know how big is the team that made Hearthstone and if you can confirm how much needs to get it out the door.
The team had fifteen people. We've grown a little over the last few months largely tied to the fact that we are expanding to other platforms I mentioned. That was the biggest thing that led us to grow to, I think about 21-22 people right now. In terms of the hours of work, it is certainly important for us on the team to make sure we're keeping with pretty good balance there. I would say the team has been pushing pretty hard, and has been doing a pretty incredible job. Every person on the team has been doing amazing work. The team is as excited as you guys are about where Hearthstone is. We feel super energized about its potential, really excited about the kind of response we got here at Blizzcon, and can't wait to get it out to the rest of the people who haven't had a chance to play yet. So we're definitely going to be watching to make sure we have a good sustainable strategy in terms of how we manage all the various commitments we have for the features, the platforms, we've been talking about. It may be the case that we need to grow the team a little more as we move into the next year.
I know the game's not out yet, but can you talk about your plans of how you plan to introduce new expansions or cards? Will they be separate purchases, single pack type things with everything included, etc?
The best thing I can say is that we haven't really figured it all out yet. We have a couple ideas. Right now, the leading thought is that this will be separate packs that you will be purchasing, but in terms of what's in there and how they're configured, prices and stuff like that, it's a little too early to say.
So instead of talking about what I’m really excited about, what right now, in terms of getting it out to market and release, what do you still think needs the most polish?
The first thing that I feel like we're still working on that we really want to get right, is being able to handle the number of players. We really want to make sure that anybody who wants to can come play the PC version of Hearthstone. We want to make sure that as it starts to scale, we don't run into service issues, where there's difficulty connecting or I can't get into my collection as quickly as I like. Our strategy right now has been to incrementally roll out the beta. Add more players, do another wave of keys, add more players, do more keys, and we're really happy now that we've got a million keys now distributed to our players. There is still more way to go, at this point we've definitely not gotten to where we want to. But the idea behind that is that at each step, we're identifying new risks and new challenges, addressing them as quickly as we can before moving to the next phase. We want to maintain that, continue moving forward in a disciplined way, rather than adding everyone in the world together at the same time and adding risk to the game. So that's the biggest thing I'm thinking about, figuring how we can do that in a way that keeps the game awesome for everybody already in it.
I will say that at this stage of the project, some of the artists are excited about working on things that are just extra icing. We showed off at the panel some of the new effects going into the game for cards that didn't have effects before. That's one of the areas that we feel like has a lot of opportunity for exciting things that we can add. That's something that we're excited about continuing to explore.
Do you have plans for golden basic cards and how would we earn them? Right now, people would be really close to having golden Stormwind Champions, so on?
Those are out right now in beta right now at the very highest levels of the leveling system, once you level beyond, I think around 50? You stop earning golden basic class cards and start earning a portion of golden basic minions. Each of them are spread between 50-60 for all the classes.
Would it be possible to play with golden cards that you've earned in arena? Say I've already unlocked golden Archmage Antonidas and I pull Archmage Antonidas, it would be cool if it was golden and I would throw golden Fireballs just as a connection between the two?
Yeah I think that's a really good idea and is something that we've actually been talking about recently as a way to make your collection matter more to players who really love playing arena. But it's not something that we've talked a ton about.
One thing that is coming soon into the game is the golden hero, which requires 500 wins, and that would be awesome if that was available in arena as well. That's kinda where our conversation is most recently, but I can definitely see us talking about different cards.
On New Platforms
So one of the reasons we waited so long to announce that we were looking into Android and iPhone, because honestly we didn't know that we could make the awesome Blizzard quality of Hearthstone for a much smaller screen size. We've gotten a lot of feedback like "Dude that's awesome but I have an iPhone or I have these Android devices. When are we going to see Hearthstone for that?" And we didn't want to commit moving forward with that platform until we felt confident that we could actually bring it to that smaller screen size. So for the last few months, we've actually been R&Ding different ways that we could bring it over there and I'd say it's only been fairly recently that we've felt like yes, we actually do have a vision here for how we can actually make the awesome version of Hearthstone to run on a smaller screen size. So, so far we actually feel pretty good about it. You can expect to see certain changes to the UI and certain parts of it, we really want to make sure when I'm targeting other minions, I'm not accidentally clicking on the wrong thing, which is actually a concern. The hand isn't microscopic. We want to make sure that when you're dragging a card, that feels pretty good too. And also the collection manager is another thing we're looking at pretty closely to make sure it's a great experience with that too.
Have you tried making cards bigger on smaller phones sizes so that's it's more visual?
One of our prototypes actually does have that with larger cards; that's one way we could potentially go. But all this is very much in the very early stages so we're kinda still going through the R&D phases, figuring out exactly what we gotta do to make it great.
And it would integrate with everything else, the entire platform, iOS and Android etc?
Yeah, you can expect that if I was playing the game on my Android phone, I'll be matchmaked against the same people playing on the PC, my collection would be persistent across it as well, if I choose to jump back and forth from iPad, PC, and Android it would be the same collection.
One last thought on that. So have you guys thought about card previews, so if you looked at a card on a phone, it would look like a regular card that you could turn over?
That would be cool, we'll add that to the list!
When you need to release a new version on a PC, it will have a time lag on iOS etc; how do you keep everything in sync?
Well certainly our intentions are to keep the releases synchronised. You know, there are some logistic and timing issues that we need to work through, what they exactly mean in terms of the cadence of releases, we are still working on the details, but it is important to us that whether you choose to play on the iPad or PC, you are still seeing the same version of Hearthstone on there.
When you're travelling you may not have a great internet connection or an internet connection at all, so would you still be able to pull out your phone if you're on, say, the subway, and pull up practice mode or manage my deck, or anything like that? Basically, offline play on mobile platforms.
Good question, we spend a lot of time thinking about this internally. We really started focusing on the PvP experience first and that was the core of where we began. Because it was so fundamentally built on playing against other players, a lot of the logic lives up on the server, as that's the design of the game. When we got to PAX, we got a lot of responses saying this is awesome, we would love it if we could play it offline, which is similar to the situation you're talking about where I don't have an internet connection. So it's something we've added to the list, something we'll be looking at to see what our options are for the future, but to start with it's really focused on the online play, so having that offline play won't be there for the initial release.
So if I'm playing on the road with my cellular plan, will that be eating up data like crazy?
We don't think so. It will be sending packets back and forth, up and down, but we are trying to design it so that we're being as aware of the fact that you're using internet connections and try to manage that as well as we can.
Is there any way to allow outside testing for the iPad and mobile devices? I know it's difficult with Apple's 100 device limit and things like that, so is there anything that you guys are looking into to allow a wider audience to participate?
I'm going to be honest, we haven't found a good way to do that. We'd like to be able to do it but this is a case where we're going up against some of the restrictions about how Apple releases apps on the platform, which are there for a good reason and I understand, but from the standpoint of doing a public beta there isn't really a good way of doing that right now. So we're doing a lot of internal testing and we're doing that as solid as we can, but unfortunately right now we don't have any plans for a closed beta test for the mobile platforms.
On Gameplay and Balance
Specifically that change was made because Hunters are very powerful for a large portion of our ranks and we can look specifically look at what cards are powerful there versus the very top level of play so we targeted Starving Buzzard, trying to reduce the power of Hunter for most of the audience without affecting it too much at other levels of play.
Do you think that might be too big of a nerf, because at a 2/1 for a 2 drop, a lot of classes such as Druid, Mage, and Rogue can take it down really easily so it's not longer very viable anymore versus these classes.
Actually, one of the reasons we did this specific change was because the best matchups for Hunter at those levels were against Druid, Mage, and Rogue. So this gives those classes a better chance against the Hunter at those level. And of course, it's not as big of a change against other classes that don't have an innate ability to deal with a 1 HP minion.
Recently, at least on the NA meta game, it seems that aggro has been dominating more and more, and in yesterday's community panel, we saw that priests were actually one of the weaker classes, and that's partially because they can't keep up early game with some of the other classes. Do you think this is a healthy metagame where aggro is shifting more and more to be the only viable option, and what do you intend to do if that turns out to be the trend?
Those statistics you saw from the panel were from three specific days, but actually the numbers change all the time. If you took an expanded look at several days, those numbers are much closer together. So right now, certainly in general things change all the time, aggro becomes stronger, then people use more tools to be able to handle those types of rush better, then things start to slow down because everybody is playing with tools to counter that sort of thing. So things change, definitely, and we need to respond to what the meta game is doing as it's happening is sort of an important part of participating in ranked play, or especially in our new ranked system which is coming out in the next patch.
In Magic the Gathering, my favorite playstyle was permission: psychic venom, dingus egg, erosion - that sort of thing. Are there any plans for resource control decks, via cards like “Hey, you just don’t have 2 mana until you kill off this card”?
One of the things that we talked a little about in the talk is that we want to make sure that Hearthstone is really fun even if you lose. Those kinds of strategies are super fun to do to somebody else, but being on the receiving end of that, especially in cases where your game is basically 'I can't do anything, my options are zero'.
Well it's like the most effective way to win, because you crush your opponents both mentally and psychologically! In a tournament sense, it's why you do things like starvation plays in Starcraft; the most soul-crushing thing is to lose when your opponent has the whole map and you can't do anything.
Well, because we want this game to be fun whether you're winning or losing, we aim for short games, eight minutes, little victories throughout the games. Being able to play your cards and feeling really powerful on your turn really helps to make the game fun regardless of winning or losing. And even our XP mechanic where you earn XP whether you win or lose, all these things go into keeping the game fun. It's a 1v1 competitive game, you're going to lose half your game, and hopefully those games are still fun to play.
While those things are interest mechanics and cool for sure, I think it just comes down to philosophical, where do we want to take the game. Thinking about what our values are, what is important to us, we have to make tough calls sometimes about things like 'well this is cool, but perhaps not aligned with the level of the game', and I think some of these things fall into that category.
You guys were talking about, during the presentation yesterday, about the whole discard mechanic from some of the other TCGs and how it didn’t feel… good to play against it. Is milling lumped into that or is that something we can maybe see in the future, or is that something you just don’t think is right for Hearthstone.
Milling, which is causing your opponent to run out of cards, and in other card games at that point you just lose the game - is a mechanic that runs counter to the normal mode of play for Hearthstone. Normally in a game of Hearthstone you're trying to deal as much damage to their hero before they can kill your hero, and there is a lot of combat back and forth to try and do that. Milling actually tries to ignore as much of that as possible and attack via a completely different route. We felt that that was less interactive and less fun than focusing the win conditions on the single axis of trying to destroy my opponent before he destroys me. That's actually why we put the fatigue mechanic in the game was that we feel like that plays right into that, because running with cards actually helps you destroy your hero by doing damage to him rather than playing the game.
Do you guys have a list of game goals? Like core principles?
Some of the big ones have been mentioned previously. We really want this to be a fun game for everyone to play. No matter what your background is, whether you've never played a CCG before, you can jump in for five minutes and then have a great time playing Hearthstone. A lot of the design decisions have been made around that particular philosophy in mind. In fact we have specific stakes in the ground that we reference throughout our whole development of, this is an interesting idea, how does this rate when I sound it off of our stake in the ground. Another one stake in the ground that we talked about a little yesterday is keeping it physical. We really want the collectibles to feel tangible. This is something you've made a big investment in, whether it be real money or time, just by earning gold to gain access to these cards. We really want these things that you are earning to feel great and do really cool stuff, to have weight when you drop it on the board, with little puffs of dust. Bringing out your legendary card that you've been working towards for a while should feel awesome. So that's an example of a stake in the ground that we come back to really frequently to make sure that, yes we're still being true to what we set up to do from the very beginning.
Talking about some of the design process that went into designing how spell power works, and what it affects, heals versus damage...will we see cards with healing power on them at some point?
Spell damage is a mechanic we wanted to try because we think Hearthstone is kinda like a puzzle. On your turn, you put a bunch of minions out, you have a couple tools in your hand, and then you have to figure out, what are the best things I could do, using my turn, to turn this around and give myself the best position for next turn. One of the things that we think makes that experience somewhat less fun is when your opponent is playing a deck of 30 spells, and so on your turn you have nothing to interact with except to attack their hero. Your opponent is doing fun stuff because they're playing against your guys, but it's not as fun for you. So spell damage was an attempt to make decks that play a lot of spells still care about the board and have interesting decisions to make with each others' minions. So that's where it came from, and certainly there's no reason why we couldn't do healing power in the future, but we'd want to make it compelling and interesting.
So there were a few balancing things you guys talked about yesterday and one of them was mind control. And there seems to be two ways of balancing things: one with a competitive mindset where you need to make sure it’s balanced for the sake of the scene and the other is balancing around how the card feels, mind control is one of those cards that just feels bad. Can you talk a little bit about balancing cards because of the negative experience on the receiving end?
It's really the exact thing that I was talking about, the game being still fun while you're losing. We make cards that seem that they're balanced. You may not even be winning most of the time, it may actually not be a good card if you look at the data, I'm not sure. But most of the response is so strong that it goes against our core value of making sure that losing is still fun, or at least not awful. We've actually rebalanced a lot of cards through the course of our alpha, and because we don't have many cards that really make you feel crappy to that extent, we get a lot of feedback when we do have a card like that. Even Mind Vision originally didn't copy a card in your opponent's hand, but stole a card in your opponent's hand, very much like Mind Control does. We changed that to copy a card for that exact reason, that we were getting so much negative feedback about seeing your best card go to the other side of the table. So those are the type of things that we pay a lot of attention to, and are almost more important than actual balance numbers, because they're so important to the core design philosophies of the game.
Speaking of those core philosophies, in other card games, you do have cards which steal cards or discard cards from your hand, or do stuff with the graveyard. Are there any plans in the future to add those effects to Hearthstone, or does that go against your core principles as well?
We get that we could expand to things like the graveyard. We just felt like we had plenty of design space in our current set up that we didn't need to explore those things because they would add complexity, but we already had plenty of depth. We actually have lots of exciting ideas for new cards and crazy new mechanics that don't require us to break into that additional complexity yet. But those options, that we could add all those crazy things, who knows what we could add into this game. It's a digital game, we could add a three-tier board, space, whatever, who knows, it's digital! There's always places we could go that are crazy, new, and exciting, but the space that we create to design cards in this game is already incredibly deep, with lots of really cool ideas with what will keep you happy in that space.
Are you guys happy with where Flamestrike is from a balance standpoint?
Yes. :D
You know, it was funny, I was reading an article recently, probably from one of your sites, I don't remember. It was about a guy who won a tournament recently with a mage deck. He had cut Flamestrike from it, and his opponent assumed he had it because his opponent was already playing around a card he didn't have in his deck any more. It's kind of interesting space, and I certainly like the fact that it exists in the game.
What is the most overpowered class slash card combo that no one is using yet?
ALL my decks are very overpowered. :D
Actually we're constantly surprised by where the community is, coming up with new decks and combinations. It's been cool to see what crazy new deck is going to come out. The Wild Pyromancer + Commanding Shout combination caught me off guard.
I think the game has reached a point right now, late in the closed beta, where you guys have a better sense about what those awesome undiscovered strategies are, in some cases more than we do. We're discovering them at the same point you guys are at this point. This is part of releasing Hearthstone to the world and recognising the fact that players are going to take it away further than what we could imagine. So we're excited to see that stuff at the same time as you.
Can you reveal one card that has been gaining popularity over the past few months even though you haven't changed it at all?
Mind Control! :D
Well there was a change because the Priest was buffed. Anything that might not have been affected by the patches?
Well, that card wasn't directly changed.
Certainly as the metagame shifts, even a small change to a single card changes everything. So we changed Northshire Cleric, 3 mana cost 1/3 minion. There are a couple of those, Mana Wyrm, Voidwalker, Northshire Cleric, and suddenly, minions that have 3 attack that cost 2 mana are much stronger because they can take out those minions. Whereas before a 2/3 minion maybe would be better because it would take out a 2/1 minion and survive. So now those 3/2 minions have become more powerful over time because of this shift to these powerful 1/3 minions. Of course, as people play more 3/2 minions then the 2/1 minions become more powerful because they can eat those 3/2 minions for cheaper. These things are always shifting, becoming more or less powerful over time, as the metagame changes.
Are there any plans to buff cards that just aren't played at all, or is there a philosophy that there should just be bad cards around? For example, some are considered strictly worse, or some might not even be played at all. Is there any plan to incrementally buff a lot of them? I think it is interesting to have a lot of choices for deck construction.
I totally agree. In previous phases of our alpha we did a lot of that. Originally Leper Gnome was a 1/1, Abusive Sergeant was a 1/1, and there were a couple other cards that we buffed over time because they were played less than other cards. As we get closer to open beta and launch, those are changes that are riskier to make, and so we're less likely to do that type of change. In fact I think that this upcoming patch, we're going to have the fewest balance changes of any patch we've ever done, because we're getting closer to that point. We really want to leave the onus of balance on the players and let you guys discover what is best and worst and adapt to that. We definitely pay a lot of attention to that, and I agree that more choices is better so that's something we look at.
The other part to that too is that we're also just discovering new things. We have an idea that some cards may not be as strong as others, but there's always the potential that somebody figures out a cool way to use a card in a different way that anybody has used it in the past. I think leaving those open as possibilities is still interesting. Obviously the 1/1 Angry Chicken with enrage doesn't lend itself as a good card, but I think it's interesting that somebody might want to run a strategy around that, and see what I can really do with that by mixing it with other cards. So some of those, we want to see how far they can do and what ideas players can come up with before we look at potentially boosting them.
I want to mention something about Angry Chicken. We look at statistics for individual cards as well as class balance. We could see what card, when you play it, wins you the game most often. At one point, that card was Angry Chicken, because it had only been played ten times only and had won all ten of those times. So it had a 100% winrate, the highest in the game, for some period of time before other people lost with that card.
On Hearthstone's Potential
It's a little too early to say. We just wrapped up the Innkeepers Invitational, we want to start with that and just gauge a reaction from everyone that was here and the community. The overall response has been super positive and we've had great feedback from all of that. So I definitely think that esports will play a significant role in Hearthstone's future based on all the stuff we're seeing. It's a little early to say exactly what it'll look like in the future or how we'll go about structuring the tournaments and the process to compete at that level, but that is something we'll be looking on the course of the next few months.
The Blizzard Innkeepers Invitational was held this weekend featuring players such as Artosis, Kripparian, or Trump, who happens to be sitting right here here. It garnered over 100,000 viewers which was equivalent to the combined total of the Starcraft stream, from what I heard from Blizzard. First of all, did you expect that many viewers, or has that number enlightened you about some things that are happening with Hearthstone?
I certainly wouldn't say we expected that, I think we were very pleasantly surprised to see that there was that much interest. One of the things that were very interesting, even in the opening ceremony, is when Rob went up to the stage and said, 'so I hope you guys are playing Hearthstone', and it wasn't the entire audience that went up, it was about half or two thirds of the audience that had gotten keys at this point and had gotten a chance to play it. There's definitely a healthy size of our potential players out there that haven't had a chance to play the game yet. For those reasons, until we move forward to open beta and really see how it goes, we've tried to temper our expectations and get a sense of what is the most fun way to watch Hearthstone competitively. I just heard two seconds before walking here that that was the case, and I think that's awesome, so it's going to be more about how do we continue moving forward based off that great response. So we're excited, but in terms of where we're going from here, we're going to go back and clear our heads a bit and figure out where we're going next.
Unfortunately, yesterday's quarter-final games were not streamed and a lot of fans were disappointed by that. Was that because of logistics or do you regret not streaming it?
I think that was what it was, it was a logistic thing. At the end of the day, we're still learning at the same time as you guys about what is awesome about watching Hearthstone online. I can definitely see us expanding on that in the future.