• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:32
CEST 18:32
KST 01:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 223ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon315.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes38Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)99
StarCraft 2
General
ZOWIE DIVINA preview Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Server Blocker StarCraft Mass Recall: SC1 campaigns on SC2 thread 5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Snow On New ASL S22 Map, Zerg Nerf Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos)
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5277 users

President Obama Re-Elected - Page 442

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 440 441 442 443 444 1504 Next
Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301
dvorakftw
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
681 Posts
September 06 2012 19:39 GMT
#8821
On September 07 2012 04:21 Leporello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 03:51 dvorakftw wrote:
On September 07 2012 03:08 paralleluniverse wrote:
Debt is not just debt -- the money is owed somewhere, to someone, but nearly all of it to the US. The point is not that government debt is costless, but it's not a burden on future generations.

Except it is because it steals economic growth. It's the reason my living room is bigger than most European apartments.

Since you're so concern about debt, what do you think of the fiscal cliff?

I think Romney and Ryan have plans to avoid it while Obama is busy pointing fingers.


So we have to elect them first to find out what that plan is?

It worked so well with Obamacare!
Minus`
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States174 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 19:57:51
September 06 2012 19:55 GMT
#8822
On September 07 2012 04:39 dvorakftw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 04:21 Leporello wrote:
On September 07 2012 03:51 dvorakftw wrote:
On September 07 2012 03:08 paralleluniverse wrote:
Debt is not just debt -- the money is owed somewhere, to someone, but nearly all of it to the US. The point is not that government debt is costless, but it's not a burden on future generations.

Except it is because it steals economic growth. It's the reason my living room is bigger than most European apartments.

Since you're so concern about debt, what do you think of the fiscal cliff?

I think Romney and Ryan have plans to avoid it while Obama is busy pointing fingers.


So we have to elect them first to find out what that plan is?

It worked so well with Obamacare!


"Health care reform was a major topic of discussion during the 2008 Democratic presidential primaries. As the race narrowed, attention focused on the plans presented by the two leading candidates, New York Senator Hillary Clinton and the eventual nominee, Illinois Senator Barack Obama. Each candidate proposed a plan to cover the approximately 45 million Americans estimated to be without health insurance at some point during each year. One point of difference between the plans was that Clinton's plan was to require all Americans to obtain coverage (in effect, an individual health insurance mandate), while Obama's was to provide a subsidy but not create a direct requirement.
...
The Senate bill, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, bore similarities to prior healthcare reform proposals introduced by Republicans. ... Other experts have pointed out that the healthcare legislation that emerged from Congress in 2009 and 2010 is patterned, largely, after former Republican Governor of Massachusetts Mitt Romney's state healthcare plan which also contains the individual mandate."
(wiki)

Your turn. Tell us about this voodoo to cut taxes, increase spending, and reduce the deficit. Tell me how that works.
[11:02:30 PM] <gryzor> calling coh an rts is like calling an sheep a car
dvorakftw
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
681 Posts
September 06 2012 19:56 GMT
#8823
On September 07 2012 04:28 Leporello wrote:

No. Then again, I'm a "liberal" so I actually look at things like the history of U.S. taxes. Our income tax hasn't been as low as it is now for over a hundred years.

You sorta learned! I'm so proud! Still wrong but you have improved. For a grade I'll give you an incomplete. You have until the first week of November.

Oh, and can we get some sort of sign or way to know when we want to include property taxes and sales taxes and payroll taxes and when we are going to ignore them? It gets confusing.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
September 06 2012 19:58 GMT
#8824
On September 07 2012 04:39 dvorakftw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 04:21 Leporello wrote:
On September 07 2012 03:51 dvorakftw wrote:
On September 07 2012 03:08 paralleluniverse wrote:
Debt is not just debt -- the money is owed somewhere, to someone, but nearly all of it to the US. The point is not that government debt is costless, but it's not a burden on future generations.

Except it is because it steals economic growth. It's the reason my living room is bigger than most European apartments.

Since you're so concern about debt, what do you think of the fiscal cliff?

I think Romney and Ryan have plans to avoid it while Obama is busy pointing fingers.


So we have to elect them first to find out what that plan is?

It worked so well with Obamacare!


That's true. Obamacare really is a significant improvement over your previous health care system. It's a shame that Romney doesn't take more credit for being the architect for it.

Seriously, I guess that would be an argument for Romney. If he can implement policy as effective and as bi-partisan as Romneycare in Massachusetts, whose to say he can't do it again in the White House.

Of course, this would require you to believe that he has been lying during this entire campaign about policies and beliefs, is will to alienate the GOP establishment, and that he can control the Republican congress.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 20:08:40
September 06 2012 20:07 GMT
#8825
Breaking news: Bill Clinton to continue dunking on xDaunt's face, much to the latter's horror and dismay.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/clinton-to-tour-midwest-for-obama
dvorakftw
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
681 Posts
September 06 2012 20:08 GMT
#8826
On September 07 2012 04:28 Leporello wrote:
Part of the reason is motive -- Republicans will tell you that Democrats like these social programs because they're evil socialists who want to expand government -- but why? Why do Democrats want to expand government-provided healthcare? What is the amoral motive for them wanting to do such a vile thing? It couldn't possibly be to improve the quality of life of the sick and the poor, could it?

Oh I was going to leave this alone but whatever - Unlike Democrats, Republicans don't generally attack the motives of the other side. all the promises sound great. The problem is that striving to better, oft we mar what's well. The road to serfdom is paved with good intentions.
dvorakftw
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
681 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 20:45:19
September 06 2012 20:09 GMT
#8827
On September 07 2012 04:32 Defacer wrote:
- and there are a lot of smart guy in this thread I respect --

Really? Names please! I want to be just like them!

User was warned for this post, other posts and general attitude towards other users
Minus`
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States174 Posts
September 06 2012 20:10 GMT
#8828
On September 07 2012 05:07 Defacer wrote:
Breaking news: Bill Clinton to continue dunking in xDaunt's face, much to the latter's horror and dismay.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/clinton-to-tour-midwest-for-obama

On September 07 2012 05:08 dvorakftw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 04:28 Leporello wrote:
Part of the reason is motive -- Republicans will tell you that Democrats like these social programs because they're evil socialists who want to expand government -- but why? Why do Democrats want to expand government-provided healthcare? What is the amoral motive for them wanting to do such a vile thing? It couldn't possibly be to improve the quality of life of the sick and the poor, could it?

Oh I was going to leave this alone but whatever - Unlike Democrats, Republicans don't generally attack the motives of the other side. all the promises sound great. The problem is that striving to better, oft we mar what's well. The road to serfdom is paved with good intentions.

[image loading]

User was warned for this post
[11:02:30 PM] <gryzor> calling coh an rts is like calling an sheep a car
dvorakftw
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
681 Posts
September 06 2012 20:10 GMT
#8829
On September 07 2012 04:55 MinusPlus wrote:
Your turn. Tell us about this voodoo to cut taxes, increase spending, and reduce the deficit. Tell me how that works.

You've got it all wrong. You cut the RATES, you close loopholes to offset, and you REDUCE spending.
Minus`
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States174 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 20:16:14
September 06 2012 20:13 GMT
#8830
On September 07 2012 05:10 dvorakftw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 04:55 MinusPlus wrote:
Your turn. Tell us about this voodoo to cut taxes, increase spending, and reduce the deficit. Tell me how that works.

You've got it all wrong. You cut the RATES, you close loopholes to offset, and you REDUCE spending.

Ok. Now the specifics, go.

EDIT: Edited back out due to BM.
[11:02:30 PM] <gryzor> calling coh an rts is like calling an sheep a car
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
September 06 2012 20:15 GMT
#8831
On September 07 2012 05:10 dvorakftw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 04:55 MinusPlus wrote:
Your turn. Tell us about this voodoo to cut taxes, increase spending, and reduce the deficit. Tell me how that works.

You've got it all wrong. You cut the RATES, you close loopholes to offset, and you REDUCE spending.

Look guys, dvorak doesn't know arithmetic!
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8760 Posts
September 06 2012 20:16 GMT
#8832
On September 07 2012 05:07 Defacer wrote:
Breaking news: Bill Clinton to continue dunking on xDaunt's face, much to the latter's horror and dismay.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/clinton-to-tour-midwest-for-obama


Hehe, don't be so hard on him!

Smart move as he still seems to be a pretty solid and popular guy unlike other former Presidents.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
September 06 2012 20:16 GMT
#8833
On September 07 2012 04:56 dvorakftw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 04:28 Leporello wrote:

No. Then again, I'm a "liberal" so I actually look at things like the history of U.S. taxes. Our income tax hasn't been as low as it is now for over a hundred years.

You sorta learned! I'm so proud! Still wrong but you have improved. For a grade I'll give you an incomplete. You have until the first week of November.

Oh, and can we get some sort of sign or way to know when we want to include property taxes and sales taxes and payroll taxes and when we are going to ignore them? It gets confusing.


Obama has no say over your property tax, or your state sales tax -- those are very local, non-partisan issues. Payroll taxes are... sneaky. Reagan himself is largely responsible for most of those, such as the Social Security payroll tax was Reagan's creation, to help pay for his drastic income tax cuts -- basically a tax hike on the poor. I'd like to see these payroll taxes one day incorporated into the income tax. But on the other hand, they are going to fund some of our best programs.

But nonetheless, the income tax is the biggest federal tax that the wealthiest people in this country pay, and that has never been lower in our lifetimes.
Big water
Nanikure
Profile Joined August 2010
United States53 Posts
September 06 2012 20:17 GMT
#8834
On September 07 2012 05:13 MinusPlus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 05:10 dvorakftw wrote:
On September 07 2012 04:55 MinusPlus wrote:
Your turn. Tell us about this voodoo to cut taxes, increase spending, and reduce the deficit. Tell me how that works.

You've got it all wrong. You cut the RATES, you close loopholes to offset, and you REDUCE spending.

Ok. Now the specifics, go.

EDIT: Edited back out due to BM.


You think that hack has any idea how the economy works?
"I hate everyone and everything seems stupid to me."
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 20:22:00
September 06 2012 20:21 GMT
#8835
On September 07 2012 05:09 dvorakftw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 04:32 Defacer wrote:
- and there are a lot of smart guys in this thread I respect --

Really? Names please! I want to be just like them!


I disagree with Sunprince, Blue Panther, and xDaunt constantly. But all three of them are smart, consistent and have forced me to improve the quality of my arguments and reasoning in this thread, and others.

They don't argue for the sake of arguing or pick dumb fights, and they keep up with the news.

Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 20:41:56
September 06 2012 20:26 GMT
#8836
On September 07 2012 05:16 Doublemint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 05:07 Defacer wrote:
Breaking news: Bill Clinton to continue dunking on xDaunt's face, much to the latter's horror and dismay.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/clinton-to-tour-midwest-for-obama


Hehe, don't be so hard on him!

Smart move as he still seems to be a pretty solid and popular guy unlike other former Presidents.


I actually really like xDaunt. I think he's a far smarter and funnier poster than he gets credit for. He just has the misfortune of defending a party with really clunky leadership and non-sensical policies.
Zaqwert
Profile Joined June 2008
United States411 Posts
September 06 2012 20:26 GMT
#8837
The very notion that you have to "pay" for tax cuts shows how freaking backwards people think about the government.

You pay for spending with tax dollars.

If you cut taxes you can either spend a bigger deficit or cut spending.

Cutting spending is not "paying" for anything, it's cutting spending, in fact it's paying less, not more.

Government spending is out of control and largely waste/fraud, but don't let that stop you about demagoguing "Tax cutz for the rich!!" or whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better about advocating theft.
dvorakftw
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
681 Posts
September 06 2012 20:30 GMT
#8838
On September 07 2012 04:58 Defacer wrote:
Of course, this would require you to believe that he has been lying during this entire campaign about policies and beliefs, is will to alienate the GOP establishment, and that he can control the Republican congress.

The biggest complaint the right had against Romney is he wouldn't admit what a mess Romneycare is. But we are trusting him to repeal the unpopular Obamacare mess.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8760 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 20:31:53
September 06 2012 20:31 GMT
#8839
On September 07 2012 05:26 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 05:16 Doublemint wrote:
On September 07 2012 05:07 Defacer wrote:
Breaking news: Bill Clinton to continue dunking on xDaunt's face, much to the latter's horror and dismay.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/clinton-to-tour-midwest-for-obama


Hehe, don't be so hard on him!

Smart move as he still seems to be a pretty solid and popular guy unlike other former Presidents.


I actually really like xDaunt. I actually think he's a far smarter and funnier poster than he gets credit for. He just has the misfortune of defending a party with really clunky leadership and non-sensical policies.


I think I know what you are getting at - it's like the (at least hopefully) mutual respect heavy contenders have got for each other, here in the realm of ideas and politics.

Cheap shots for entertainment included from time to time - no kumbaya BS :D
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Minus`
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States174 Posts
September 06 2012 20:34 GMT
#8840
On September 07 2012 05:30 dvorakftw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 04:58 Defacer wrote:
Of course, this would require you to believe that he has been lying during this entire campaign about policies and beliefs, is will to alienate the GOP establishment, and that he can control the Republican congress.

The biggest complaint the right had against Romney is he wouldn't admit what a mess Romneycare is. But we are trusting him to repeal the unpopular Obamacare mess.

You're also trusting him to fix the economy with magic.
[11:02:30 PM] <gryzor> calling coh an rts is like calling an sheep a car
Prev 1 440 441 442 443 444 1504 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
OSC Elite SC2 Cup #15
Liquipedia
HomeStory Cup
11:30
XXIX - Playoffs Final Day
Serral vs LamboLIVE!
Clem vs Reynor
TaKeTV5933
ComeBackTV 1644
TaKeSeN 597
IndyStarCraft 415
Rex163
3DClanTV 159
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 415
Rex 163
BRAT_OK 40
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 28480
Calm 3449
Shuttle 1356
Jaedong 966
Soulkey 684
Mong 406
actioN 208
Light 205
Rush 201
910 147
[ Show more ]
ZZZero.O 113
Zeus 80
Hyun 65
Dewaltoss 53
Sharp 45
Free 38
Movie 36
soO 34
HiyA 32
Rock 26
Sacsri 23
zelot 17
GoRush 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
Dota 2
qojqva3618
Counter-Strike
byalli417
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor501
Liquid`Hasu139
Other Games
singsing3095
B2W.Neo1238
Hui .176
KnowMe175
ArmadaUGS126
QueenE57
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick8330
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream157
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach13
• Pr0nogo 9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Shiphtur188
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
1d 18h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
RSL Revival
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W1
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
Escore Tournament S3: W2
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.