EPTOn September 07 2012 04:21 Leporello wrote:
So we have to elect them first to find out what that plan is?
So we have to elect them first to find out what that plan is?
It worked so well with Obamacare!
President Obama Re-Elected - Page 442
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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
It worked so well with Obamacare! | ||
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Minus`
United States174 Posts
"Health care reform was a major topic of discussion during the 2008 Democratic presidential primaries. As the race narrowed, attention focused on the plans presented by the two leading candidates, New York Senator Hillary Clinton and the eventual nominee, Illinois Senator Barack Obama. Each candidate proposed a plan to cover the approximately 45 million Americans estimated to be without health insurance at some point during each year. One point of difference between the plans was that Clinton's plan was to require all Americans to obtain coverage (in effect, an individual health insurance mandate), while Obama's was to provide a subsidy but not create a direct requirement. ... The Senate bill, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, bore similarities to prior healthcare reform proposals introduced by Republicans. ... Other experts have pointed out that the healthcare legislation that emerged from Congress in 2009 and 2010 is patterned, largely, after former Republican Governor of Massachusetts Mitt Romney's state healthcare plan which also contains the individual mandate." Your turn. Tell us about this voodoo to cut taxes, increase spending, and reduce the deficit. Tell me how that works. | ||
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
On September 07 2012 04:28 Leporello wrote: No. Then again, I'm a "liberal" so I actually look at things like the history of U.S. taxes. Our income tax hasn't been as low as it is now for over a hundred years. You sorta learned! I'm so proud! Still wrong but you have improved. For a grade I'll give you an incomplete. You have until the first week of November. Oh, and can we get some sort of sign or way to know when we want to include property taxes and sales taxes and payroll taxes and when we are going to ignore them? It gets confusing. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
That's true. Obamacare really is a significant improvement over your previous health care system. It's a shame that Romney doesn't take more credit for being the architect for it. Seriously, I guess that would be an argument for Romney. If he can implement policy as effective and as bi-partisan as Romneycare in Massachusetts, whose to say he can't do it again in the White House. Of course, this would require you to believe that he has been lying during this entire campaign about policies and beliefs, is will to alienate the GOP establishment, and that he can control the Republican congress. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/clinton-to-tour-midwest-for-obama | ||
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
On September 07 2012 04:28 Leporello wrote: Part of the reason is motive -- Republicans will tell you that Democrats like these social programs because they're evil socialists who want to expand government -- but why? Why do Democrats want to expand government-provided healthcare? What is the amoral motive for them wanting to do such a vile thing? It couldn't possibly be to improve the quality of life of the sick and the poor, could it? Oh I was going to leave this alone but whatever - Unlike Democrats, Republicans don't generally attack the motives of the other side. all the promises sound great. The problem is that striving to better, oft we mar what's well. The road to serfdom is paved with good intentions. | ||
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
On September 07 2012 04:32 Defacer wrote: - and there are a lot of smart guy in this thread I respect -- Really? Names please! I want to be just like them! User was warned for this post, other posts and general attitude towards other users | ||
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Minus`
United States174 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:07 Defacer wrote: Breaking news: Bill Clinton to continue dunking in xDaunt's face, much to the latter's horror and dismay. http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/clinton-to-tour-midwest-for-obama On September 07 2012 05:08 dvorakftw wrote: Oh I was going to leave this alone but whatever - Unlike Democrats, Republicans don't generally attack the motives of the other side. all the promises sound great. The problem is that striving to better, oft we mar what's well. The road to serfdom is paved with good intentions. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NBpb5.jpg) User was warned for this post | ||
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
On September 07 2012 04:55 MinusPlus wrote: Your turn. Tell us about this voodoo to cut taxes, increase spending, and reduce the deficit. Tell me how that works. You've got it all wrong. You cut the RATES, you close loopholes to offset, and you REDUCE spending. | ||
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Minus`
United States174 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:10 dvorakftw wrote: You've got it all wrong. You cut the RATES, you close loopholes to offset, and you REDUCE spending. Ok. Now the specifics, go. EDIT: Edited back out due to BM. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:10 dvorakftw wrote: You've got it all wrong. You cut the RATES, you close loopholes to offset, and you REDUCE spending. Look guys, dvorak doesn't know arithmetic! | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8655 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:07 Defacer wrote: Breaking news: Bill Clinton to continue dunking on xDaunt's face, much to the latter's horror and dismay. http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/clinton-to-tour-midwest-for-obama Hehe, don't be so hard on him! Smart move as he still seems to be a pretty solid and popular guy unlike other former Presidents. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On September 07 2012 04:56 dvorakftw wrote: You sorta learned! I'm so proud! Still wrong but you have improved. For a grade I'll give you an incomplete. You have until the first week of November. Oh, and can we get some sort of sign or way to know when we want to include property taxes and sales taxes and payroll taxes and when we are going to ignore them? It gets confusing. Obama has no say over your property tax, or your state sales tax -- those are very local, non-partisan issues. Payroll taxes are... sneaky. Reagan himself is largely responsible for most of those, such as the Social Security payroll tax was Reagan's creation, to help pay for his drastic income tax cuts -- basically a tax hike on the poor. I'd like to see these payroll taxes one day incorporated into the income tax. But on the other hand, they are going to fund some of our best programs. But nonetheless, the income tax is the biggest federal tax that the wealthiest people in this country pay, and that has never been lower in our lifetimes. | ||
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Nanikure
United States53 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:13 MinusPlus wrote: Ok. Now the specifics, go. EDIT: Edited back out due to BM. You think that hack has any idea how the economy works? | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:09 dvorakftw wrote: Really? Names please! I want to be just like them! I disagree with Sunprince, Blue Panther, and xDaunt constantly. But all three of them are smart, consistent and have forced me to improve the quality of my arguments and reasoning in this thread, and others. They don't argue for the sake of arguing or pick dumb fights, and they keep up with the news. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:16 Doublemint wrote: Hehe, don't be so hard on him! Smart move as he still seems to be a pretty solid and popular guy unlike other former Presidents. I actually really like xDaunt. I think he's a far smarter and funnier poster than he gets credit for. He just has the misfortune of defending a party with really clunky leadership and non-sensical policies. | ||
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Zaqwert
United States411 Posts
You pay for spending with tax dollars. If you cut taxes you can either spend a bigger deficit or cut spending. Cutting spending is not "paying" for anything, it's cutting spending, in fact it's paying less, not more. Government spending is out of control and largely waste/fraud, but don't let that stop you about demagoguing "Tax cutz for the rich!!" or whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better about advocating theft. | ||
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
On September 07 2012 04:58 Defacer wrote: Of course, this would require you to believe that he has been lying during this entire campaign about policies and beliefs, is will to alienate the GOP establishment, and that he can control the Republican congress. The biggest complaint the right had against Romney is he wouldn't admit what a mess Romneycare is. But we are trusting him to repeal the unpopular Obamacare mess. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8655 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:26 Defacer wrote: I actually really like xDaunt. I actually think he's a far smarter and funnier poster than he gets credit for. He just has the misfortune of defending a party with really clunky leadership and non-sensical policies. I think I know what you are getting at - it's like the (at least hopefully) mutual respect heavy contenders have got for each other, here in the realm of ideas and politics. Cheap shots for entertainment included from time to time - no kumbaya BS :D | ||
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Minus`
United States174 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:30 dvorakftw wrote: The biggest complaint the right had against Romney is he wouldn't admit what a mess Romneycare is. But we are trusting him to repeal the unpopular Obamacare mess. You're also trusting him to fix the economy with magic. | ||
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