• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:08
CEST 15:08
KST 22:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End7Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!44Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) 2026 GSTL Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WardiTV Mondays 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO BW General Discussion [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 3/4 - soO
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group C CSLAN 4 is Coming! [ASL22] Ro24 Group A [ASL22] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5990 users

Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion - Page 873

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 871 872 873 874 875 10601 Next
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
March 15 2015 18:04 GMT
#17441
Yeah, I don't think it's really debatable that Blizzard destroyed the Starcraft franchise with poor design decisions.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 15 2015 18:06 GMT
#17442
I mean we could debate that is the most successful RTS since WC3. But by Team Liquid standards, yes it is a horrible failure.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Shaella
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States14828 Posts
March 15 2015 18:07 GMT
#17443
lets be real the RTS genre is mostly dead
don't tell me to provide a legend for those charts cause we already got shaella in this thread - eieio | Bulba is my waifu
Howie_Dewitt
Profile Joined March 2014
United States1416 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-15 18:10:52
March 15 2015 18:08 GMT
#17444
On March 16 2015 03:07 Shaella wrote:
lets be real the RTS genre is mostly dead

It's not dead, it's just small
In a corner
Bleeding out really slowly
But not dead
Oh yeah the mayor of NYC wants to change the selective enrollment test because of the demographics at some high school that is selective enrollment
70% Asian 25% white
He said it was biased towards Hispanics and African Americans
Sisyphus had a good gig going, the disappointment was predictable. | Visions of the Country (1978) is for when you're lost.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 15 2015 18:09 GMT
#17445
That part is pretty much fact. No one has done amazing things with RTS in a while. I keep hoping someone will make a mix of Supreme commander macro and scale with SC2 level of micro, but that game has not been made.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
March 15 2015 18:11 GMT
#17446
On March 16 2015 03:06 Plansix wrote:
I mean we could debate that is the most successful RTS since WC3. But by Team Liquid standards, yes it is a horrible failure.

There have been no other RTS games since WC3, realistically speaking. That's not something to SC2's credit.

We just need someone to step up to the plate and make a good one again. Even if it's not the next BW, I'd be happy to see an AoE, an AoE2, or a WC3.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
March 15 2015 18:12 GMT
#17447
being the best rts is kind of like being the thinnest kid at fat camp
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Shaella
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States14828 Posts
March 15 2015 18:13 GMT
#17448
On March 16 2015 03:09 Plansix wrote:
That part is pretty much fact. No one has done amazing things with RTS in a while. I keep hoping someone will make a mix of Supreme commander macro and scale with SC2 level of micro, but that game has not been made.

RTS as a genre just doesn't seem to have room to grow, they also take a shit ton of world building to make interesting, SC had, emphasis on had, a great world. Until sc2 fucking shit on everything
don't tell me to provide a legend for those charts cause we already got shaella in this thread - eieio | Bulba is my waifu
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 15 2015 18:19 GMT
#17449
On March 16 2015 03:13 Shaella wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2015 03:09 Plansix wrote:
That part is pretty much fact. No one has done amazing things with RTS in a while. I keep hoping someone will make a mix of Supreme commander macro and scale with SC2 level of micro, but that game has not been made.

RTS as a genre just doesn't seem to have room to grow, they also take a shit ton of world building to make interesting, SC had, emphasis on had, a great world. Until sc2 fucking shit on everything

I totally agree. The core audience seems super fixated on what they consider core features to an RTS. It must be hard to innovate when a core fan base so set on what they consider an RTS. Personally, I love the scale of Supreme Commander and experimental units, but base building is so cumbersome and the unit micro is complete junk. I also love SC2, but the macro and stressful nature of the game.

The Company of Heroes/Dawn of War victory point system where you captured and held parts of the map got me into those games. But the unit controls and balance of vehicles was fucking garbage.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
March 15 2015 18:19 GMT
#17450
Basically it's the same problem that you see in the Civ series. You have a team of incredibly with-it designers who make the first several games, have really great ideas about how it works, refine the idea to a precise science (culminating in BW and CivIV BTS), and then have a team of people who don't understand anything about it step in and decide to try and "innovate" on a few key points without realizing how those points must necessarily require the franchise move to operate within a totally different niche in the genre. WC3 was an example of that style of innovation done right, as the heroes allowed for an extremely robust custom game scene, and CivV was an example of it done wrong, with one unit per tile meaning that it couldn't be a grand logistics game and instead pushing it into an awkward in-between of logistics TBS and tactical TBS.

At this point, you need people who are willing to build their own game from the ground up and to toy around with it until it's a game unto itself, instead of trying to modify existing franchises that they know nothing about.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
March 15 2015 18:22 GMT
#17451
I liked natural selection 2 and its take on semi-RTS mixed with FPS.
Too bad the game runs like shit, made me stop playing tbh.
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
March 15 2015 18:26 GMT
#17452
On March 16 2015 02:44 Dattish wrote:
So guys, what is your favourite avant-garde metal band?? Mine is Arcturus

+ Show Spoiler +

I still don't have a good idea of what separates avant-garde/progressive/experimental. It feels like everyone has their own definition, so I'll just say screw it and post some music.

Favourite's probably got to be Between the Buried and Me:
+ Show Spoiler [Polka breakdowns await you] +


Dan Brigg's spin-off Trioscapes might just be considered Jazz, and not Metal? I don't know.
+ Show Spoiler [Awww yeahhhh] +


I'm also a fan of 90's/early 00's jazzy metal, so stuff like Cynic, Atheist, Spiral Architect
+ Show Spoiler [Cynic] +
Old:

Newer:


+ Show Spoiler [Atheist] +

+ Show Spoiler [Spiral Architect] +


SikTh is really cool too.
+ Show Spoiler [Intro's really quiet, it get…] +


Lastly, I've started listening to Maudlin of the Well recently.
+ Show Spoiler [Only about half their songs are heavy] +
1:

2:
you gotta dance
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-15 19:12:36
March 15 2015 18:38 GMT
#17453
The only avant-garde metal band is Zu - a band consisting of a drummer, a bassist, and a saxophone

+ Show Spoiler +


or

ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
Klowney
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden277 Posts
March 15 2015 18:46 GMT
#17454
On March 16 2015 03:09 Plansix wrote:
That part is pretty much fact. No one has done amazing things with RTS in a while. I keep hoping someone will make a mix of Supreme commander macro and scale with SC2 level of micro, but that game has not been made.


SupCom has more micro than bw + sc2 combined.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 15 2015 19:13 GMT
#17455
If we are on the topic of metal/rock bands, I hear this one is pretty good. I've seen them a couple of times. (Warning, I am super bias)





http://www.reverbnation.com/stagger9

They are pretty great, though the videos sound isn't that awesome
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Dattish
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Sweden6297 Posts
March 15 2015 19:18 GMT
#17456
--- Nuked ---
Shaella
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States14828 Posts
March 15 2015 19:23 GMT
#17457
???



ur all fuckin nerds.
don't tell me to provide a legend for those charts cause we already got shaella in this thread - eieio | Bulba is my waifu
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
March 15 2015 19:44 GMT
#17458
On March 16 2015 04:23 Shaella wrote:
???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSCRT7sDyWA

ur all fuckin nerds.


That's interesting
Bora Pain minha porra!
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
March 15 2015 20:13 GMT
#17459
On March 16 2015 03:38 Comeh wrote:
The only avant-garde metal band is Zu - a band consisting of a drummer, a bassist, and a saxophone

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHpeeYiP3BY

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hun8GlxGYus

Cool, never heard of these guys before.

On March 16 2015 04:18 Dattish wrote:
Ew, this was not what I asked for.

+ Show Spoiler +

Not sure who this was directed at, but to be fair, you weren't really specific with what you wanted.

'Avant-garde' pretty much covers the gamut of everything from King Crimson to stuff like Behold... The Arctopus.

Leprous are good too, I only really found them recently when talking to some people about Haken.

+ Show Spoiler [Haken] +
1.

2.
you gotta dance
Bisu-Fan
Profile Joined January 2010
Russian Federation3339 Posts
March 15 2015 20:25 GMT
#17460
On March 16 2015 03:03 Shaella wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2015 03:01 Comeh wrote:
On March 16 2015 03:00 Plansix wrote:
On March 16 2015 02:55 Shaella wrote:
uhoh guys, Reddits saying we're a dead game cause CSGO got a million viewers

Also we should obviously host TI5 in europe because of this, because how DARE america have the biggest LAN of the year when europe has literally every other lan.

God kill me why do i read /r/dota2


Publicly showing the number of viewers live during an event is such a double edge sword for all of Esports. Its great for hype, but the fanbase of the other games goes doomsday everytime a new mile stone in reached. See SC2 as the worst case scenario.

SC2 died because it was a bad game.

+ Show Spoiler +
HAHA THIS TOPIC AGAIN WE ARE GREAT AT DIVERSITY HERE!!!!

ALMOST AS DIVERSE AS LEAGUE'S COMPETETIVE CHAMPION POOL

boom! Nailed it! Thank you! I'll be here all week everybody!

God i'm fucking good.

hahaha i enjoyed this post a lot~
I've recently been playing so much more league because of friends, and my ... what can i say... i play to waste the 30 minutes in between important things during the day when I dont have enough time to play dota
The Revolutionist Shall Rise Again! No. 1 Kim Taek Yong Fan 어헣↗ GO JAEDONG!!!!!!! GO ACE!!! 태연 <3 윤아 <3 승연 <3
Prev 1 871 872 873 874 875 10601 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
2026 Week 20
IntoTheiNu 839
RotterdaM634
IndyStarCraft 185
SteadfastSC164
Rex130
LiquipediaDiscussion
Afreeca Starleague
10:00
Ro24 Group C
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 634
PiGStarcraft320
IndyStarCraft 185
SteadfastSC 164
Rex 130
CosmosSc2 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 44588
Calm 7287
Bisu 1885
Light 936
Mini 634
Soma 284
Soulkey 268
Hyuk 266
Stork 218
Zeus 199
[ Show more ]
Snow 184
ZerO 183
Last 153
Pusan 152
Rush 120
Yoon 91
hero 70
Sea.KH 67
Mong 62
Killer 56
PianO 44
JYJ 33
Shine 32
sSak 28
soO 25
Hm[arnc] 18
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
Noble 14
Sacsri 14
Icarus 7
firebathero 0
Dota 2
qojqva2179
Dendi1322
resolut1ontv 223
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1219
shoxiejesuss781
byalli552
zeus336
edward35
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King161
Other Games
singsing2336
B2W.Neo486
crisheroes382
Lowko305
DeMusliM150
Liquid`LucifroN135
Liquid`VortiX38
amsayoshi25
Trikslyr18
Chillindude4
ZerO(Twitch)4
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 15
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV827
League of Legends
• TFBlade415
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 52m
The PondCast
20h 52m
KCM Race Survival
20h 52m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Escore
1d 20h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 22h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Patches Events
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
The Patches Monday
5 days
GSL
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 4
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.