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On June 25 2013 10:49 igotmyown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 00:51 Testuser wrote:On May 22 2013 08:31 NB wrote:On May 22 2013 07:14 Testuser wrote:From reddit I think I saw on here the other day Sniper with level 4 shrapnel (a.k.a level 7 sniper) can kill a tier 1 tower in 150 seconds just with shrapnel. Which is 1800 range. So long as you can afford the mana, of course. Someone please go arcane + blink Sniper, get the towers and make a vid. Plz. have been doing this for ages..... http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=131692495 no blink, doesn't count. Soul ring is better. I do it when I get sniper, though people flame me for not being a carry. You learn that towers are invulnerable until creeps spawn. edit: and wisp was a she according to playdota for a long time in dota1.
soulring sniper wont work against legit competition, you will get punished. And, if u have to go soulring on sniper ur supports failed u/not optimal mana management. Imo you better be getting a kill a minute with that soulring if you get it for it to payoff... which is really unlikely against good players once again
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Soul ring is so you can spam shrapnel on towers.
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??? every time i play sniper i go mid and start wraith + tango ect, get aquila -> phase -> drums -> force staff all you really need is that to take out all 3 tier ones as you rotate around. you can take out the mid dire tower from the cliff on radiant side, and vice versa.
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With 1800 range on sniper you just have to be the same side of the river to be able to siege the t2s, not to mention the t3 siege potential.
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On June 25 2013 09:23 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 09:15 Comeh wrote:On June 25 2013 09:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:
So why have no teams played Ursa mid yet?
Seems like he'd be a really strong 1v1 laner with the buffs - powerful harass and amazing last hitting - and crow nerf. Seems like a 2 position Ursa would work a lot better than the 1 position he was typically forced into.
Presumably there's something I'm missing, but it seems odd to me that this has been overlooked. He can 1v1 alright against most melee heroes...but he has obvious weaknesses against ranged heroes, and can be ganked relatively easily. I don't see him being weaker than any other melee mid in these regards though.
Most melee mids have a spammable creep clearing ability (DK, Magnus) and bottlecrow often
Fuzzy Wuzzy has... earthshock.
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On June 25 2013 11:29 DoNotDisturb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 09:23 FuzzyJAM wrote:On June 25 2013 09:15 Comeh wrote:On June 25 2013 09:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:
So why have no teams played Ursa mid yet?
Seems like he'd be a really strong 1v1 laner with the buffs - powerful harass and amazing last hitting - and crow nerf. Seems like a 2 position Ursa would work a lot better than the 1 position he was typically forced into.
Presumably there's something I'm missing, but it seems odd to me that this has been overlooked. He can 1v1 alright against most melee heroes...but he has obvious weaknesses against ranged heroes, and can be ganked relatively easily. I don't see him being weaker than any other melee mid in these regards though. Most melee mids have a spammable creep clearing ability (DK, Magnus) and bottlecrow often Fuzzy Wuzzy has... earthshock.
Earthshock actually wouldn't be bad at clearing waves, but maxing it means missing out on pretty much what has made ursa himself all these years. It's rather comparable to spammable low mana cost thunderclap. but ursa needs more stuff to be good than just his ultimate
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If you go force staff they can follow your path. Real snipers hide in the trees, hit their target, then relocate.
Never know what hit 'em.
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Ursa could do pretty well against a fair few lanes. He has a lot of HP, a lot of armour, can trade hits with melees well, and earthshock is pretty efficient (75 mana at all levels with 6 second cd, even if it isn't the best nuke around). Its kinda comparable to brewmaster mid.
The difference is that ursa doesn't do well with high levels and low farm. Ursa wants phase+blink asap (sometimes vlads as well). If he is level 6 and everyone else on the map is level 4, he isn't very powerful compared to many other similar mids. If he gets a haste/invis he can get a kill, but he could do the same even if he was safe laning.
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On June 25 2013 11:42 LAN-f34r wrote:
Ursa could do pretty well against a fair few lanes. He has a lot of HP, a lot of armour, can trade hits with melees well, and earthshock is pretty efficient (75 mana at all levels with 6 second cd, even if it isn't the best nuke around). Its kinda comparable to brewmaster mid.
The difference is that ursa doesn't do well with high levels and low farm. Ursa wants phase+blink asap (sometimes vlads as well). If he is level 6 and everyone else on the map is level 4, he isn't very powerful compared to many other similar mids. If he gets a haste/invis he can get a kill, but he could do the same even if he was safe laning.
What hero would Ursa have a rune advantage on, especially if maxing earthshock. Also you bring up brewmaster mid; what advantage does mid ursa hold over mid brewmaster? If you give brewmaster first position farm he turns into a pretty badass right clicker ^_^
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On June 25 2013 11:35 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 11:29 DoNotDisturb wrote:On June 25 2013 09:23 FuzzyJAM wrote:On June 25 2013 09:15 Comeh wrote:On June 25 2013 09:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:
So why have no teams played Ursa mid yet?
Seems like he'd be a really strong 1v1 laner with the buffs - powerful harass and amazing last hitting - and crow nerf. Seems like a 2 position Ursa would work a lot better than the 1 position he was typically forced into.
Presumably there's something I'm missing, but it seems odd to me that this has been overlooked. He can 1v1 alright against most melee heroes...but he has obvious weaknesses against ranged heroes, and can be ganked relatively easily. I don't see him being weaker than any other melee mid in these regards though. Most melee mids have a spammable creep clearing ability (DK, Magnus) and bottlecrow often Fuzzy Wuzzy has... earthshock. Earthshock actually wouldn't be bad at clearing waves, but maxing it means missing out on pretty much what has made ursa himself all these years. It's rather comparable to spammable low mana cost thunderclap. but ursa needs more stuff to be good than just his ultimate
Wait I thought the correct build was 4/1/4 for Ursa? Maxing out Earthshock+Fury Swipes, leaving Overpower for last as it's effectiveness is pretty low. Maxing quick Fury Swipes+Earthshock = possibility of ganking.
It's also the most effective roshan build as by time you start adding points into Overpower you would have the items needed for roshan. There's no point adding more than 1 point into Overpower in the early game.
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On June 25 2013 11:46 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 11:42 LAN-f34r wrote:
Ursa could do pretty well against a fair few lanes. He has a lot of HP, a lot of armour, can trade hits with melees well, and earthshock is pretty efficient (75 mana at all levels with 6 second cd, even if it isn't the best nuke around). Its kinda comparable to brewmaster mid.
The difference is that ursa doesn't do well with high levels and low farm. Ursa wants phase+blink asap (sometimes vlads as well). If he is level 6 and everyone else on the map is level 4, he isn't very powerful compared to many other similar mids. If he gets a haste/invis he can get a kill, but he could do the same even if he was safe laning. What hero would Ursa have a rune advantage on, especially if maxing earthshock. Also you bring up brewmaster mid; what advantage does mid ursa hold over mid brewmaster? If you give brewmaster first position farm he turns into a pretty badass right clicker ^_^
That's what I'm saying. I was comparing the laning capabilities of brew and ursa to point out that ursa wouldn't be that bad in the lane itself, but ursa doesn't get the full potential of being laned in such a way (namely, he doesn't benefit from level advantages much).
On June 25 2013 11:52 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 11:35 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 25 2013 11:29 DoNotDisturb wrote:On June 25 2013 09:23 FuzzyJAM wrote:On June 25 2013 09:15 Comeh wrote:On June 25 2013 09:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:
So why have no teams played Ursa mid yet?
Seems like he'd be a really strong 1v1 laner with the buffs - powerful harass and amazing last hitting - and crow nerf. Seems like a 2 position Ursa would work a lot better than the 1 position he was typically forced into.
Presumably there's something I'm missing, but it seems odd to me that this has been overlooked. He can 1v1 alright against most melee heroes...but he has obvious weaknesses against ranged heroes, and can be ganked relatively easily. I don't see him being weaker than any other melee mid in these regards though. Most melee mids have a spammable creep clearing ability (DK, Magnus) and bottlecrow often Fuzzy Wuzzy has... earthshock. Earthshock actually wouldn't be bad at clearing waves, but maxing it means missing out on pretty much what has made ursa himself all these years. It's rather comparable to spammable low mana cost thunderclap. but ursa needs more stuff to be good than just his ultimate Wait I thought the correct build was 4/1/4 for Ursa? Maxing out Earthshock+Fury Swipes, leaving Overpower for last as it's effectiveness is pretty low. Maxing quick Fury Swipes+Earthshock = possibility of ganking. It's also the most effective roshan build as by time you start adding points into Overpower you would have the items needed for roshan. There's no point adding more than 1 point into Overpower in the early game.
Overpower is what lets you kill people if your allies have any lockdown at all. Often Ursa will forgo earthshock (without bottle its hard to sustain anyway) until he gets maxed out swipes and overpower, which give him more rosh threat, more kill threat, and faster jungling if needed.
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4-1-1 is the way to go, new earthshock is dumb
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On June 25 2013 11:42 igotmyown wrote:
If you go force staff they can follow your path. Real snipers hide in the trees, hit their target, then relocate.
Never know what hit 'em.
You don't understand sir. Forcestaff -> assassinate is godlike.
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On June 25 2013 12:11 Erasme wrote:
4-1-1 is the way to go, new earthshock is dumb
aka. the build that eternal envy lost 1v1 to godz.
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What does force staff do for assassinate that blink can't?
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On June 25 2013 11:59 LAN-f34r wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 11:46 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On June 25 2013 11:42 LAN-f34r wrote:
Ursa could do pretty well against a fair few lanes. He has a lot of HP, a lot of armour, can trade hits with melees well, and earthshock is pretty efficient (75 mana at all levels with 6 second cd, even if it isn't the best nuke around). Its kinda comparable to brewmaster mid.
The difference is that ursa doesn't do well with high levels and low farm. Ursa wants phase+blink asap (sometimes vlads as well). If he is level 6 and everyone else on the map is level 4, he isn't very powerful compared to many other similar mids. If he gets a haste/invis he can get a kill, but he could do the same even if he was safe laning. What hero would Ursa have a rune advantage on, especially if maxing earthshock. Also you bring up brewmaster mid; what advantage does mid ursa hold over mid brewmaster? If you give brewmaster first position farm he turns into a pretty badass right clicker ^_^ That's what I'm saying. I was comparing the laning capabilities of brew and ursa to point out that ursa wouldn't be that bad in the lane itself, but ursa doesn't get the full potential of being laned in such a way (namely, he doesn't benefit from level advantages much). Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 11:52 Mithhaike wrote:On June 25 2013 11:35 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 25 2013 11:29 DoNotDisturb wrote:On June 25 2013 09:23 FuzzyJAM wrote:On June 25 2013 09:15 Comeh wrote:On June 25 2013 09:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:
So why have no teams played Ursa mid yet?
Seems like he'd be a really strong 1v1 laner with the buffs - powerful harass and amazing last hitting - and crow nerf. Seems like a 2 position Ursa would work a lot better than the 1 position he was typically forced into.
Presumably there's something I'm missing, but it seems odd to me that this has been overlooked. He can 1v1 alright against most melee heroes...but he has obvious weaknesses against ranged heroes, and can be ganked relatively easily. I don't see him being weaker than any other melee mid in these regards though. Most melee mids have a spammable creep clearing ability (DK, Magnus) and bottlecrow often Fuzzy Wuzzy has... earthshock. Earthshock actually wouldn't be bad at clearing waves, but maxing it means missing out on pretty much what has made ursa himself all these years. It's rather comparable to spammable low mana cost thunderclap. but ursa needs more stuff to be good than just his ultimate Wait I thought the correct build was 4/1/4 for Ursa? Maxing out Earthshock+Fury Swipes, leaving Overpower for last as it's effectiveness is pretty low. Maxing quick Fury Swipes+Earthshock = possibility of ganking. It's also the most effective roshan build as by time you start adding points into Overpower you would have the items needed for roshan. There's no point adding more than 1 point into Overpower in the early game. Overpower is what lets you kill people if your allies have any lockdown at all. Often Ursa will forgo earthshock (without bottle its hard to sustain anyway) until he gets maxed out swipes and overpower, which give him more rosh threat, more kill threat, and faster jungling if needed.
I disagree. Earthshock is what lets you kill people. The slow is insanely strong. 1attack per level is weak compared to increased slow %. 4/1/4 is the build to go. You get more swipes in because of the slow compared to higher level of overpower
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On June 25 2013 12:53 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 12:11 Erasme wrote:
4-1-1 is the way to go, new earthshock is dumb aka. the build that eternal envy lost 1v1 to godz.
im not responsible for ee lack of skill in 1v1
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with 0-4-4, the fury swipes from the 6 attacks alone do 630 physical damage. With 85 damage (level 8 + phase boots no ult is ~87 damage), there is another 510 physical damage. At that stage of the game, not many heroes could survive that. All this damage is in ~2 seconds aka within one stun.
Of course, you face the problem of getting in range. But this is a problem with earthshock as well. Earthshock lets you stay in range once you get there, but generally ursa doesn't solo gank until he has a blink dagger anyway (which is likely after getting a couple of levels in earthshock anyway), and the "burst" damage of overpower lets you kill people before they even have a chance to turn around and stun (then wait for help), or blink away, or anything like that.
Ofc, this is talking about ursa with a support in lane and a team with half a brain between them. For solo ganking earthshock builds will often be better. However, imo even if you are trying to 1v5 then 0-4-4 is better because you can jungle faster and rosh better --> being able to do useful stuff earlier with an early blink.
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On June 25 2013 12:53 igotmyown wrote:
What does force staff do for assassinate that blink can't?
lets you cast a second one. and lets you use the force to catch up right after a fight. while blink is on CD. i dunno why you have to ask what an item thatgives regen and mana and can be used in combat can do that an item that gives no stats and can't be used in combat does differently
also looks far cooler.
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if it was the old forcestaff I don't think he'd be questioning why
although old forcestaff was godly on everyone, RIP in peace my fellow quaswex lovers
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EPT
