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General Discussion - Page 2392
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Slomo
Germany7198 Posts
Was not in offline mode last time. | ||
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xsevR
United States324 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 16 2013 04:26 xsevR wrote: I'm not gonna pretend its good but when Drow first came out I played ~5 games of 0-1-1-1 stats and went mid (frost arrows for newbs, max aura when you can't put into stats). I rushed phase/yasha/hotd and didn't really miss the frost arrows. Probably not viable (you could win without skills/items on drow) but ended up winning a lot of fights because of the extra stats. This is more or less the old way of playing Drow, focusing on combat stats over Arrows/Silence, entering fights with a heavy focus on damage. The thing is, the buffs to Frost Arrows, Silence, and her Ultimate have changed the approach to the hero entirely. With a ridiculous 60% slow, 6 second silence, and high baseline damage without items, she's become one of the strongest gank/solo-killing heroes in the game. The stats/aura farming-oriented Drow is essentially a way of playing her that is geared toward how her kit functioned 2 years ago, and is not only unsuitable for how the game is played now, but also unsuitable for what the hero's abilities allow her to do now. This is the logic of Arrows>Silence, Lothar's first-item Drow in Chinese pub play. At level 11 with Lothar's, you essentially have the ability to solo-kill any hero on the map. If you farm fast enough that you get this out before anyone has a BKB (you should), it puts tremendous pressure on the enemy team's farming ability because there's more or less no hero that can escape you 1v1 (save instantly wasting a TP the moment you appear). You're not only the ridiculous lategame carry--you're also the ganking/tempo-carrying hero that creates space for the lategame carry. Even if the enemy buys sentries/dust, it forces the enemy team to stick together and closes their farming space, which allows you to accelerate your growth. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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maru~
2345 Posts
On March 16 2013 05:01 TheYango wrote: The thing is, the buffs to Frost Arrows, Silence, and her Ultimate have changed the approach to the hero entirely. With a ridiculous 60% slow, 6 second silence, and high baseline damage without items, she's become one of the strongest gank/solo-killing heroes in the game. The stats/aura farming-oriented Drow is essentially a way of playing her that is geared toward how her kit functioned 2 years ago, and is not only unsuitable for how the game is played now, but also unsuitable for what the hero's abilities allow her to do now. Not sure if I agree. The Silence minibuffs hardly matter and the ult buff helps both playstyles. Being able to solokill people (xp change from solokills) is great, but if they get mass truesight and go 5man Dota you might have a tough time with that build. I think the good old stats aura Drow is as viable as ever, especially against more organized players. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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maru~
2345 Posts
On March 16 2013 05:25 TheYango wrote: If they go 5-man DotA, then there's nothing wrong with farming it out with Lothar's. The buff helped it's combat stat-efficiency enough that you can push and farm extremely quickly with just Lothar's. Well, I guess, but you're squishy and will have less farm. If they start to threaten your tier2 towers or even base and force you to defend while you are still lacking items like lifesteal/BKB/Manta and the bonus hp from stats it might be hard to defend. Anyway, it IS a strong build, I just think the stats aura build is not to be underestimated. If your team allows you to farm you will be unstoppable at around 20 min in (you should have HotD Yasha BKB or HotD Manta around that time, combined with stats and the new ult you can tear everyone apart and are very hard to kill). | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
And the biggest problem of early aura is that it will ruin your lane control permanently if you even got one level of it (which is why the chinese ex-pro/pros rather not take it), so unless you have a mid who benefits alot on that aura (lanaya comes to mind), there is almost no reason to level up aura (well unless if you didnt care about farming the lane or you intended to push). Getting that silence is just almost like getting lvl1 smoke on riki before 6, and it is surprisingly important for you counter-ganking or just kill some hero with an escape mechanism (qop, am, storm, mirana etc). And from my experience i have only seen like 1 or 2 times of some russian drow going 0 frost arrow (and proceed to lose us the game obviously). | ||
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LaiShin
Australia978 Posts
On March 16 2013 03:19 Slomo wrote: Steam keeps telling me I have to be online to update steam. Any ideas how to force an update? Was not in offline mode last time. You need to restart steam. Exit steam, then open it. | ||
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maru~
2345 Posts
On March 16 2013 05:33 BurningSera wrote: Might as well dont pick the hero if you didnt plan to use that (ridiculous) 60% slow orb, and not getting at least one level of orb of an orb hero is just....pointless...you could have used it harass the hell out of the oppo/diving tower. And the biggest problem of early aura is that it will ruin your lane control permanently if you even got one level of it (which is why the chinese ex-pro/pros rather not take it), so unless you have a mid who benefits alot on that aura (lanaya comes to mind), there is almost no reason to level up aura (well unless if you didnt care about farming the lane or you intended to push). Getting that silence is just almost like getting lvl1 smoke on riki before 6, and it is surprisingly important for you counter-ganking or just kill some hero with an escape mechanism (qop, am, storm, mirana etc). And from my experience i have only seen like 1 or 2 times of some russian drow going 0 frost arrow (and proceed to lose us the game obviously). Your argument that you might as well pick another hero if you don't max slow on her is lacking. Example: "Might as well not pick Tinker if you plan to skip the 360 dmg pure dmg nuke", refering to the March build obviously. It's just a different playstyle, both have advantages and disadvantages and are stronger/weaker in certain situations. If you feel that the slow will be useful in lane you can get a level of it and still do the stats/aura build. The issue with missing lasthits already came up earlier in the thread, and there's the possibility to not spend the skillpoints while laning if that is an issue, though if you have ranged laners on other lanes it's probably worth it either way. Silence I feel is rather useless early, it won't help much if you get ganked (cast time, chain disables, waiting out the duration, low aoe etc.) and it won't help much for ganks unless you are against heroes with escape skills which you could kill with it. You could get a level early depending on the situation, or get it later. Just because you played with bad players or they went for the build in the wrong situation it doesn't make the build bad. Happy Birthday. | ||
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Grettin
42415 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
On March 16 2013 06:48 Numy wrote: Silencer is huge aoe and really low duration. The slow is huge slow and you got a really long range. I just don't think going stats is really worth it over your abilities anymore on drow. I've done stats before and it just feels like you waste far to much potential. Since you don't really have to build damage early on you can put all your money into survivability so I don't really see an argument for stats anymore. Numyyyyy | ||
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xsevR
United States324 Posts
On March 16 2013 05:01 TheYango wrote: This is more or less the old way of playing Drow, focusing on combat stats over Arrows/Silence, entering fights with a heavy focus on damage. The thing is, the buffs to Frost Arrows, Silence, and her Ultimate have changed the approach to the hero entirely. With a ridiculous 60% slow, 6 second silence, and high baseline damage without items, she's become one of the strongest gank/solo-killing heroes in the game. The stats/aura farming-oriented Drow is essentially a way of playing her that is geared toward how her kit functioned 2 years ago, and is not only unsuitable for how the game is played now, but also unsuitable for what the hero's abilities allow her to do now. This is the logic of Arrows>Silence, Lothar's first-item Drow in Chinese pub play. At level 11 with Lothar's, you essentially have the ability to solo-kill any hero on the map. If you farm fast enough that you get this out before anyone has a BKB (you should), it puts tremendous pressure on the enemy team's farming ability because there's more or less no hero that can escape you 1v1 (save instantly wasting a TP the moment you appear). You're not only the ridiculous lategame carry--you're also the ganking/tempo-carrying hero that creates space for the lategame carry. Even if the enemy buys sentries/dust, it forces the enemy team to stick together and closes their farming space, which allows you to accelerate your growth. Well I believe i was going this build slightly before the lothar's buff, and when the aura was a little bit better. I've been random 99% of the time and haven't played her lately. I played a lot of DotA when tons of heroes went stats build, mostly because a lot of skills were complete shit (Drow, Tide, Sven, SK, Warlock, etc.). Although the old drow frost arrows also reduced attack speed people still thought it was "newb" to get the skill. I think you can skip them when they realistically won't help you get kills or survive your lane. Mid is a pretty short lane, and you push it with the aura, so your opportunities for chasing are somewhat limited. Also, if the enemy hero just wants to fight you, the frost arrows won't help you at all in a straight up fight. Treads Shadowblade is probably the better build the majority of time. Your killing/ganking power with stats phase yasha alone is pretty solid though, especially if your allies have plenty of disables and the enemy team is squishy. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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SilverStar
Sweden18511 Posts
On March 16 2013 07:51 crms wrote: random online tournament for $1500 (bigpoints) getting more viewership than MLG dallas day 1 after HOTS release? What happened to SC2? I hope the numbers they get are sustainable for them (since that's all that really matters) but it's a bit weird to see. Sc2 is sustainable through advertising income. Lots of big brands. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
40k just listening to day9 and wheat talking atm | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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