EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 2347
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On March 11 2013 09:19 dfs wrote: Realisticly, we will probably get the +1 armor buff for Doom reversed. Because THAT is OP. It is not even in Dota 2. He actually does have it in dota 2. It's .56 armor, rather than -.56 armor (he got 1 armor added to him). Hover over his reduction tooltip sometime at level 1 and even though it says 0 armor the tooltip will say reduces physical damage by 3%. Dota 2 has some weird truncating stuff. On March 11 2013 09:27 TheYango wrote: Bat just needs a revert on the 6.75 buffs. He was fine in DotA 1 in 6.73/6.74--those buffs only went in because Bat didn't handle well in DotA 2, and since they've fixed his animation issues, they're no longer necessary. I have no clue why Kuro felt the need to come up with such convoluted changes for that hero in the interview. Also the bug where he has 1800 vision in dota 2 doesn't help (it's 1200 when flying in dota 1). He also got the strange whole can't attack while ulting which would have to be reverted | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Shows how much I play Bat, I guess. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=56829 | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
I hope shadowblade gets nerfed. I find it really obnoxious that the item is actually good. For me, it's just awful to play with or against, and it's pretty much a must have in pub games. I guess it's alright as is in terms of progames, but I really hate it when I play myself. I want bottle on the midlane heavily nerfed. At the very least bottlecrowing, because it erases the skill difference between the 2 players and makes for a non-interactive gameplay. You can just spam creeps and refill the bottle back up, I think it's hurting the game on every level, I don't see a single reason why it shouldn't be nerfed to the ground. Tranquil boots I think should get nerfed. They're too good for afk farming carries. And no one likes afk farming carries.... it's non-interactive, boring to watch, boring to play. I think significantly increasing the mana cost of the heal might be good enough. I want to see Vanguard buffed. Vanguard is good for diving towers, diving towers is amazing to watch, makes games faster, it's easy to make mistakes when diving/being dove, all in all a good item for the game, imo. If you could disassemble it would be a cool start! I think Yasha could get nerfed and manta buffed a bit. IceFrog has been adjusting these two items a bit in the past patches, but I would like to see more mantas and less yashas. Manta is a cool item to play with and to watch. | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
Which period in DotA had the most versatility when it comes to picks/bans? Like atm you have like a couple of heroes you always ban/pick(nyx, mag, bat, ds,..) Would be great to see like 30 standard heroes instead of like 10 that we have right now. | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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maru~
2345 Posts
On March 11 2013 09:55 Andr3 wrote: Random question. Which period in DotA had the most versatility when it comes to picks/bans? Like atm you have like a couple of heroes you always ban/pick(nyx, mag, bat, ds,..) Would be great to see like 30 standard heroes instead of like 10 that we have right now. That has always been the case, and the hero pool used to be lower than nowadays. If you look at the hero list and think about it, a lot of them are used, at least occasionally. Many heroes are very situational, so you will rarelly see them used but they can still work out well in the right strat. On the other hand some heroes are simply extremely strong/overpowered, so you are forced to ban/pick them. But as I said, that has always been the case in Dota. | ||
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ViZe
United States1513 Posts
Like nowadays the first 4 bans + 6 picks are all the same but the bans and picks after that vary quite a bit which is fun Before they had 2 ban stages you would always see the same heroes I'm not sure how the change from 3b3p2b2p to 2b3p3b2p has affected the variability though | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On March 11 2013 09:49 cecek wrote: Are we talking balance? Yay! I really hope items get changed a lot this patch. I hope shadowblade gets nerfed. I find it really obnoxious that the item is actually good. For me, it's just awful to play with or against, and it's pretty much a must have in pub games. I guess it's alright as is in terms of progames, but I really hate it when I play myself. I want bottle on the midlane heavily nerfed. At the very least bottlecrowing, because it erases the skill difference between the 2 players and makes for a non-interactive gameplay. You can just spam creeps and refill the bottle back up, I think it's hurting the game on every level, I don't see a single reason why it shouldn't be nerfed to the ground. Tranquil boots I think should get nerfed. They're too good for afk farming carries. And no one likes afk farming carries.... it's non-interactive, boring to watch, boring to play. I think significantly increasing the mana cost of the heal might be good enough. I want to see Vanguard buffed. Vanguard is good for diving towers, diving towers is amazing to watch, makes games faster, it's easy to make mistakes when diving/being dove, all in all a good item for the game, imo. If you could disassemble it would be a cool start! I think Yasha could get nerfed and manta buffed a bit. IceFrog has been adjusting these two items a bit in the past patches, but I would like to see more mantas and less yashas. Manta is a cool item to play with and to watch. Bottle-crowing should be kept imo, the time/gold investment involved in that is extreme and it makes a lot of mids/solos viable who wouldn't be otherwise (600 gold for bottle, 370 for courier - and the time it takes away from the other lanes getting crucial regen or items). Bottles crowing for sidelanes is really crucial in the availability in heroes who can sidelane. When bottle-crowing was removed from HoN it really made the game a lot slower and the metagame stagnated. I thought it was a good change until I saw the effect it actually had (I think they made it just refill 2/3... but eventually iirc they did take it away entirely). I don't see why manta needs a buff, I think it's at a pretty good spot right now (good on some heroes but no longer a must have on ranged carries). I agree on the shadowblade nerf- reducing the cost while improving its active and stats was over the top. I would enjoy if it had better stats but also was more expensive. Agreed on the tranquils/vanguard. I don't actually understand why vanguard got its last nerf (275->250 hp added). Tranquils just seem to be being used in a way that wasn't their original purpose (maybe reduce their movespeed to that of regular boots if we're keeping them for the use of carry regen or severely reduce the active if we want it kept for support use). On March 11 2013 09:42 FinestHour wrote: you two should go work for valve and work in qa department I just know most of the bugs, I've never actually discovered any. QA sucks as a job (my brother worked for that department in a totally unrelated field). | ||
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Gheizen64
Italy2077 Posts
On March 11 2013 09:55 Andr3 wrote: Random question. Which period in DotA had the most versatility when it comes to picks/bans? Like atm you have like a couple of heroes you always ban/pick(nyx, mag, bat, ds,..) Would be great to see like 30 standard heroes instead of like 10 that we have right now. Actually this is the version with the largest competitive pool i remember, we have 30+ heroes you see pretty often now. 6.60 for example was a fucking pushfest of undying + krob + necro with Bloodstones and Phase boots (PB gave armor and Bloodstone gave hp regen per charge too). | ||
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maru~
2345 Posts
On March 11 2013 10:02 ViZe wrote: I think the number of heroes that you see depends more upon how the bans and picks work. Like nowadays the first 4 bans + 6 picks are all the same but the bans and picks after that vary quite a bit which is fun Before they had 2 ban stages you would always see the same heroes I'm not sure how the change from 3b3p2b2p to 2b3p3b2p has affected the variability though The idea of the change was to promote more strategy in the drafts, because by reducing the initial bans you have more options to go for specific strats since they aren't as likely to be banned, while at the same time having more bans in the second stage gives more options to counter the strats your opponent tries to go for, or ban heroes that counter your lineup. But the problem is that there are some heroes that are so strong that you are pretty much forced to ban them (Nyx, Bat for example), especially if you are first pick. Kuroky and Fata talk about that in the "interview". | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The "bottle-crow stalemate" that we're seeing right now isn't a new thing. It was quite prevalent throughout all of 6.73 in DotA 1, after LGD lost to Mineski's double-bottle crow at SMM 2011. The common bottle-crowing mids now were all prevalent then (except maybe Mag cuz he hadn't been overbuffed yet), BM, NS, Panda, etc. Why didn't these massive stalemates happen at TI2? Because the pool of mid heroes at TI2 were strong enough to really put pressure on the bottle-crow stalemate heroes--Morphling, Invoker, Rubick, etc. could outplay these heroes and force them out of lane. 6.74 had a pool of mid heroes that could beat the "bottle-crow stalemate" heroes mid, particularly as Rubick was added to -CM and Morphling was buffed. Notice something about the 3 heroes I listed? ALL of them were nerfed in 6.75--and specifically they were nerfed in ways that crushed their viability as mid laners. Bottle-crow stalemates returning are simply a product of the power vacuum where the rest of the mid hero pool cannot punish a weak bottle-rush start (other than Bat, but he's banned in 90% of games) and maintain control of the lane because the stronger mid heroes have been nerfed. Bottle-crowing as a mechanic doesn't need to be changed. It allows a lot of heroes into the game that would not otherwise be able to be played as mid laners. The issue is that there needs to be a large enough pool of mid heroes that can be picked to punish bottle-crowing mids and punish their weak starts. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 11 2013 10:40 cecek wrote: You're proposing having a very limited pool of broken heroes, who will force the bottlecrowing heroes away, that wouldn't bring more variety, tho. Why wouldn't you just remove the bottlecrowing to allow other heroes in? I don't think I would want the TI2 mid heroes back... there wasn't that many of them and it wasn't really fun. You're choosing the lesser of two evils. On the one hand, Bottle-crowing is what makes certain melee mids even playable. It makes certain mids less appealing, but removing it would remove just as many mids from even being playable in the first place. Plus you're forgetting the other advantage of bottle-crowing--it reduces the randomness inherent in mid matchups from rune luck. Bottle crowing equalizes the regen component of having the rune because if you got unlucky, you at least can send your bottle home and get it filled. Without bottle-crowing, the advantage of having runes is far greater. While this does emphasize rune control more, there are a lot of situations where getting the rune simply ends up being luck. On March 11 2013 09:49 cecek wrote: I want to see Vanguard buffed. Vanguard is good for diving towers, diving towers is amazing to watch, makes games faster, it's easy to make mistakes when diving/being dove, all in all a good item for the game, imo. If you could disassemble it would be a cool start! Except when Vanguard was good, in 6.72, it wasn't really a tower-dive item. It was a sit in lane and push/farm item for carries, that enhanced their early game survivability heavily. Weaver sit in lane and farm/splitpush. Spectre sit in lane and farm/splitpush. Anti-mage sit in lane and farm/splitpush. I don't think the game is better or worse off with the item being situational as it is now. | ||
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meijin
United States141 Posts
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