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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On October 03 2012 06:16 NB wrote: Kennigit seems very knowledgeable when it comes to dota2 heroes and he talks about it on his twitter everytime a patch hit. No. I just jumped on the bandwagon. However i do play progamer tier Disruptor. | ||
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
Agha is only good when the enemy has a carry like Naix I would actually still make a vanguard, as viper needs some form of early hp regen, hood is kinda situational and I don't think that tranq boots are that good on viper. | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
Were there many summons that game? Vanguard may have been worth it if there was a broodmother or similar. Besides, just because a pro does something doesn't mean its right. On October 07 2012 18:42 Yoshi- wrote: Mek isn't really good on viper either. Agha is only good when the enemy has a carry like Naix I would actually still make a vanguard, as viper needs some form of early hp regen, hood is kinda situational and I don't think that tranq boots are that good on viper. How is mek not good on viper? Gives you armor and hp, both of which you want. It can be a bit of a problem with mana, but it is still worth it if you don't have a good mek carrier on the team. Especially if you go ags directly after to deal with the mana issues. How are tranq not amazing on viper? Allows him to chase better early game, gives him some armor and regen. Treads aren't that important that you spend 1125 for vanguard (vit booster ignored) when you could spend 525 which can be sold back when regen becomes irrelevant. | ||
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ChrisXIV
Austria3553 Posts
On October 07 2012 18:46 LAN-f34r wrote: Wait, is july before or after tranquils? Tranq were truly the nail in vanguard coffin. Nigh every hero gets a cheaper RoH that can be disassembled for better mid/late boots should they need it (tinker, meepo, etc probably don't need it anyway due to natural regen methods (TPing to base)). If tranq had just came out he may have not realised how good they are. Were there many summons that game? Vanguard may have been worth it if there was a broodmother or similar. Besides, just because a pro does something doesn't mean its right. After, Tranquils came in 6.73 and got buffed in 6.74. Enemy team had BH, Invoker, CM, Lesh and Tide. I'm not saying that. I'm saying pros (maybe only Artstyle, don't want to sift through all the VODs ^^) build Vanguard. Which is the answer to the question what pros build on Viper. o_O | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Vanguard on ranged is bad. It's simply not cost-effective compared to other options. Tranquils are inherently awkward for Viper because with Corrosive Skin you want to take some of the early heat in a fight, but you also want your boots to be effective for chasing/cleanup power at the end of a fight because that's what you excel at. Phases are superior for this because they don't deactivate in combat. Realistically the most comfortable early survivability+regen for Viper is something like Phase+Vit+Hood. Vit and Hood become Heart and Pipe later (Pipe doesn't have the same issue as Mek because it's a shield and not a heal, so it always has 100% effectiveness). You can bolster your armor/physical survivability through agility sources like Manta and Butterfly (which also provide their own utility), or if you need a pure armor item, Assault Cuirass. | ||
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Cool Cat
United States1644 Posts
On October 07 2012 17:31 hunts wrote: GL! Most people probably wouldn't recommend a build like that for doom though TBH. Most seem to go with vanguard and radiance, and then AC or even shivas. I just played my game and it went great! Sven and I did physical DPS while SF tanked and QoP and AA supported. It was a close game but we won! I also got Manta Style at the suggestion of tube. Here's the scoreboard. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U5ECM.jpg) | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
The nice thing about tranquils is that you can disassemble them. If you need other boots for mid/late you can make them since you don't really need regen that late anyway (unless you are alch or have heart/pipe, you are probably getting far more healing from urn/mek/fountain at that stage). Of course, if they have a heavy magic damage line up, pipe builds are probably still best. And in many situations drum is better. But mek is by no means unviable. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 07 2012 19:10 LAN-f34r wrote: I don't see what you mean with optimal mek timing. If you use it to save yourself, 95% of the time WR etc would have as well. No? Windrunner isn't going to position in a way intended to eat the first round of spells from the enemy team. Whereas this Chinese style of Viper is often looking to do so the way a melee front-liner would. | ||
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tube
United States1475 Posts
On October 07 2012 19:09 Cool Cat wrote: I just played my game and it went great! Sven and I did physical DPS while SF tanked and QoP and AA supported. It was a close game but we won! I also got Manta Style at the suggestion of tube. Here's the scoreboard. + Show Spoiler + build redemption #bestofTLdota2gd | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On October 07 2012 19:13 TheYango wrote: No? Windrunner isn't going to position in a way intended to eat the first round of spells from the enemy team. Whereas this Chinese style of Viper is often looking to do so the way a melee front-liner would. 250hp from vanguard. Mek gives 250hp to all your team + the aura + 2armor. Also an early mek is very good. I don't think you can argue in favor or vg but disregard mek. That's not logical. | ||
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Fwizzz
Philippines4420 Posts
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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KezseN
Singapore1450 Posts
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dtz
5834 Posts
On October 07 2012 19:41 Erasme wrote: 250hp from vanguard. Mek gives 250hp to all your team + the aura + 2armor. Also an early mek is very good. I don't think you can argue in favor or vg but disregard mek. That's not logical. I don't think he is arguing that VG is better than Mek. But just that Viper is not a good mek carrier. Since mek doesn't stack, only 1 person in the team should hold it and it should not be Viper who should be in the front line. So yea, 250 hp to the Viper plus the Mek heal from whoever is carrying it ( WR maybe) for more optimal tankiness. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On October 07 2012 19:44 Yoshi- wrote: Why should viper buy a mek when anyother hero could also buy a mek instead? because a 10min mek is way better than a 20min mek ? And because viper doesn't need items to kill people in the midgame ? | ||
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
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Kazzoo
France368 Posts
On October 07 2012 19:50 Kishin2 wrote: I've never played too much dark seer, but I'm wondering... Why don't people get blink dagger on him? Dark seer is such a fast farmer that he can get one pretty quickly and can blow his surge on an ally instead of himself. Landing a good vacuum and wall can make or break team fights and yet, I've never seen it gotten ever. There's a 70% win rate with the item according to dotabuff but only with 4000 games played. Just why isn't this item gotten for him? IIRC Na'Vi DS player (I don't know who) did a few times at TI2. But I would classify it as luxury, you need mek/pipe or someting to help your team otherwise you're uselss until level 12 and even then not that much. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
The only match I found where a dark seer got a blink dagger was this one: https://dotabuff.com/matches/36284486 Dark seer was the only one on the team without a blink dagger this game: https://dotabuff.com/matches/36274157 So I don't think it can really be said that it's common at all. Why? It's not even gotten as a luxury. I can't really fathom at all why it's gotten so rarely in both pro games and pubs. | ||
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