Chosen you know you went random because you could not win otherwise. It was bad mannered if you were his friend at all. If you never considered ret your friend then it wasn't bad manner at all.

Jos, as a superior player in all levels, you should be able to say "Fine he is being a prick, I'll rape him regardless". You are unfairly better then every member of the community right now, if idra wasn't finally showing results you would have won all the tournaments around, that said you are now a target for this kind of stuff.

This is lame guys, just lame. Also bad manner is fucking normal, no good players are always good manner.

iD.NicKy

France767 Posts

June 08 2009 21:05 GMT

#22

fuck IDRA why so BM ?

oh shit no wait this is not an idra drama?

damn this is weird ^^

StRyKeR

United States1739 Posts

June 08 2009 21:06 GMT

#23

On June 09 2009 06:05 iD.NicKy wrote:
fuck IDRA why so BM ?

oh shit no wait this is not an idra drama?

damn this is weird ^^

HAHAHA

you mean IdramA

Day[9]

United States7366 Posts

June 08 2009 21:08 GMT

#24

ok i like both chosen and ret so i feel obliged to step in and play the diplomat

to chosen:
you didn't exactly do anything wrong, as you were simply trying to maximize your chances of winning, and random seemed the most reasonable choice to do so. that said, playing vs random is kind of a pain, so i can clearly see why ret would be extremely frustrated. that said, i firmly believe that your original post is way way way out of line. anything ret said doesn't strike me as "him being bad manner," but rather "him venting his frustration." I am fully aware that i'm an extremely mannered fellow in ALL my games, but in WCG 2005 qualifiers, i flipped shit on some guy who was teasing me because i was so angry that i lost (i also broke my mouse and desk after that too haha). ret's rage happens to everyone, and its especially understandable since you two had a friendly relationship previously. in the future, i'd recommend trying to be more diplomatic and pleasant at the time.

to ret:
especially considering you're a race picker, playing vs random is EXTREMELY frustrating. the "luck" factor as you describe it is quite significant (for those unfamiliar w/ what i'm talking about, any opening is generally feasible vs 1 or 2 of the races, but not all 3). that said, in general game theory sense, chosen probably felt crushed by you in all matchups. so, his choice to go random is largely a compliment to your skill. as frustrating and annoying as it is, i fault the ESI for allowing a player to go random in the ace match of a series (obviously korean tournaments require players to submit their race a week beforehand). i definitely doubly understand your frustration, as you were friends w/ chosen previously.

so yeah, i see both sides of the argument: chosen didn't do anything necessarily wrong by going random, and ret obviously felt cheated by a friend who took advantage of a loophole in the rules.

so chosen: please take down your OP and apologize. i really don't see the purpose or benefit of posting this. and ret: i wouldn't want to downplay your frustration (i probably would have been equally, if not way more angry), but try to direct it more towards the fact that randomming is allowed.

even though it was a big match, its just a game and we're all buddies yo!

Jonoman92

United States9108 Posts

June 08 2009 21:12 GMT

#25

Being purely objective here (as much as I can) Chosen wouldn't be a good team member if he didn't do his best to win the game for his clan. Choosing random gave him a better chance at winning and even though it is gay, especially on a map like byzantium II, it is part of sc and it is allowed.

Xeris

Iran17695 Posts

June 08 2009 21:13 GMT

#26

Did you even read his post? He SAID he chose random because he didn't think he could win ZvT. Your argument doesn't even make sense. Chosen is Ret's friend, and Ret is a better player, so Chosen should have just let him win? How does that make sense?

RaGe

Belgium9950 Posts

June 08 2009 21:13 GMT

#27

Picking Zerg vs his Random would result to him being Zerg in less than 1/3rd of the cases (Blizzard rigged SC to avoid mirrors). Would've been a better option probably.

I don't think what Chosen did was really that BM that it warrants flaming. Although I understand that if you perceive it as gay within a group of friends you'd feel kind of betrayed.

I certainly don't think ret flaming Chosen over it is worth a thread though. What do you expect to achieve with this Chosen? Posting about some personal grudge is going to change anything?

And Magic~Phil, stop being such an obviously biased fanboy.

Sadist

United States7328 Posts

June 08 2009 21:14 GMT

#28

On June 09 2009 06:04 AttackZerg wrote:
Chosen you know you went random because you could not win otherwise. It was bad mannered if you were his friend at all. If you never considered ret your friend then it wasn't bad manner at all.

Jos, as a superior player in all levels, you should be able to say "Fine he is being a prick, I'll rape him regardless". You are unfairly better then every member of the community right now, if idra wasn't finally showing results you would have won all the tournaments around, that said you are now a target for this kind of stuff.

This is lame guys, just lame. Also bad manner is fucking normal, no good players are always good manner.

This is beyond childish. Some of you guys need to grow the fuck up when its a "real" game. I might bitch and moan just like anybody else when im pissed when I lost but I wouldnt come on a forum anymore and complain that someone cheesed me or went random. Chosen played his best percentages. He wanted to win. Thats the objective of a "real" game.

Excello.ChOseN

United States82 Posts

June 08 2009 21:14 GMT

#29

Day I understand what your saying. But I geuss I could have explained this better. I asked ret if he'd rather that I go Zerg. I was fine playing ZvT if it would really upset him. I just knew that I needed to win to get eX into the Final 4 playoffs and I had a better chance at random. I've told ret I think hes a better player it has nothing to do with that.

I just wanted to explain a little on my side. I even asked him if I could go R, because I've always treated Ret as a friend. When he got upset before we'd even started I switched to z, and said I'd ZvT. By that point Ret and Mondragon were already yelling at me for even thinking about R. All of this said, I understand ret's side of it, he was simply being frustrated for losing. We've all felt that. I just wanted to point out how this went down, just sharing my side of the story for all the people who've been flaming me lately.

Day9, if this was a korean tournament, ret would have to pick Z or T. I'd pick Z. So he'd probally pick Z, sence its his race 2/3 of the time. So even in a korean matchup I'd get a MU that Ret doesn't play ZvZ. And I understand what you said, I was trying very hard to be diplomatic, I'd offered to go Z, but they just flipped on me when I even suggested that I was going to go random because I thought I had a better shot at winning.

Xeris

Iran17695 Posts

June 08 2009 21:14 GMT

#30

On June 09 2009 06:08 Day[9] wrote:
ok i like both chosen and ret so i feel obliged to step in and play the diplomat

to chosen:
you didn't exactly do anything wrong, as you were simply trying to maximize your chances of winning, and random seemed the most reasonable choice to do so. that said, playing vs random is kind of a pain, so i can clearly see why ret would be extremely frustrated. that said, i firmly believe that your original post is way way way out of line. anything ret said doesn't strike me as "him being bad manner," but rather "him venting his frustration." I am fully aware that i'm an extremely mannered fellow in ALL my games, but in WCG 2005 qualifiers, i flipped shit on some guy who was teasing me because i was so angry that i lost (i also broke my mouse and desk after that too haha). ret's rage happens to everyone, and its especially understandable since you two had a friendly relationship previously. in the future, i'd recommend trying to be more diplomatic and pleasant at the time.

to ret:
especially considering you're a race picker, playing vs random is EXTREMELY frustrating. the "luck" factor as you describe it is quite significant (for those unfamiliar w/ what i'm talking about, any opening is generally feasible vs 1 or 2 of the races, but not all 3). that said, in general game theory sense, chosen probably felt crushed by you in all matchups. so, his choice to go random is largely a compliment to your skill. as frustrating and annoying as it is, i fault the ESI for allowing a player to go random in the ace match of a series (obviously korean tournaments require players to submit their race a week beforehand). i definitely doubly understand your frustration, as you were friends w/ chosen previously.

so yeah, i see both sides of the argument: chosen didn't do anything necessarily wrong by going random, and ret obviously felt cheated by a friend who took advantage of a loophole in the rules.

so chosen: please take down your OP and apologize. i really don't see the purpose or benefit of posting this. and ret: i wouldn't want to downplay your frustration (i probably would have been equally, if not way more angry), but try to direct it more towards the fact that randomming is allowed.

even though it was a big match, its just a game and we're all buddies yo!

I agree with you on a lot of this. I think the main reason Shawn posted this is because he pretty much got ostracized by all of ToT for this incident, which in his opinion and mine is probably unfair. And yes, it is the league's fault for allowing random in such a situation. But again, nothing he did was against the rules, and he was just trying to get a win.

Day[9]

United States7366 Posts

June 08 2009 21:15 GMT

#31

i'm going to continue to post:

i don't think this debate even belongs in this forum. as far as i'm concerned, its between chosen and ret.

please don't fuel the flame war guys!!! everyone needs to be more good mannered!!!