I've been studying the race usage in top ranks...

So many players are zergs
and people have incredibly small records vs protoss
Like #1 guy has 3 games or something total vs protoss
many others have 50-100 total games played, of which 5-10 are vs protoss. So, at least in top ranks, there are very few protoss users (about 10% games vs protoss suggests 10% at top ranks are protoss?) 10% wow. I know it's the beginning of the season, but the consistency of this data throughout top 200 is staggerring

And at lower ranks, I play a lot of toss players. In fact, 12 or 20 games that I have played so far on PGT this season are vs protoss, and I do not pick opponents. Unless this all is a giant coincidence, it looks like protoss players are pushed around and pushed down by terrans and zergs. All zergs in top ranks have amazing records vs protoss, and often not so great vs terran.

Most players in top 100 played 50% or more of their games vs zerg. Why are protoss players so bad? Is there a balance change needed?

Look at starleagues in the past while (1 toss out of 16 or something in one of them?, tournament results, TLT top 32 has 25% protoss at most, top PGT is swarming with zergs.... It's alarming, I think

Maybe it's only saying that protoss is much harder to master than other races, though once you master it, you can compete on fair terms.

-PhiL-

362 Posts

May 04 2005 05:44 GMT

#1532

Its all about maps.. But the pgtour mappool is a fucking nice one.. 8]

Liquid`Jinro

Sweden33719 Posts

May 04 2005 06:01 GMT

#1533

On May 04 2005 13:45 MPXMX wrote:
I've been studying the race usage in top ranks...

So many players are zergs
and people have incredibly small records vs protoss
Like #1 guy has 3 games or something total vs protoss
many others have 50-100 total games played, of which 5-10 are vs protoss. So, at least in top ranks, there are very few protoss users (about 10% games vs protoss suggests 10% at top ranks are protoss?) 10% wow. I know it's the beginning of the season, but the consistency of this data throughout top 200 is staggerring

And at lower ranks, I play a lot of toss players. In fact, 12 or 20 games that I have played so far on PGT this season are vs protoss, and I do not pick opponents. Unless this all is a giant coincidence, it looks like protoss players are pushed around and pushed down by terrans and zergs. All zergs in top ranks have amazing records vs protoss, and often not so great vs terran.

Most players in top 100 played 50% or more of their games vs zerg. Why are protoss players so bad? Is there a balance change needed?

Look at starleagues in the past while (1 toss out of 16 or something in one of them?, tournament results, TLT top 32 has 25% protoss at most, top PGT is swarming with zergs.... It's alarming, I think

Maybe it's only saying that protoss is much harder to master than other races, though once you master it, you can compete on fair terms.

http://www.pgtour.net/profile.php?a=view&id=78362
http://www.pgtour.net/profile.php?a=view&id=75763
http://www.pgtour.net/profile.php?a=view&id=28351

Amount of toss players in top 25

Anyways, I think you should take a long hard look at the amount of terran games as well; that number is ridiculously small as well

Most vs T records are something like 10-2, 10-4 or something.

Toss just isn't that popular - -;; Anyhow

Zerg is both the ultimate ladder race and the worst, more people will try to cheese Z than T or P, but Z is also a lot stronger when you don't know your opponent; for example I play a LOT of PvZ vs travin, and I win quite a bit more than I lose (not that much but enough to be noticeable) but if I didn't know him and just played him every now and then it would at the very least be a lot harder and I'd probably lose more..

When you know the Z you can read them better and this has more of an effect in PvZ than the other matchups as you are always 'guessing' for the mid game (ie trying to feel what he's doing).

To end this post:

OGN Starleagues won:

Grrr (P)
Garimto (P)
Garimto (P)
Reach (P)
Kingdom (P)
Nal_rA (P)

Boxer (T)
Boxer (T)
Nada (T)
Nada (T)
Sync (T)
Xellos (T)

Julyzerg (Z)
Freemura (Z) If you want to count tooniverse starleague (the precursor to OGN).

Which in my opinion is another zerg weakness; the inability to develop a specific killer build - toss has so many options like this making them a great tournament race

Terran isn't without them either.

MBC is a bit less pretty on the eyes though..

Nada (T)
Nada (T)
Nada (T)
IloveOOv (T)
IloveOOv (T)
IloveOOv (T)
Boxer (T)

Nal_rA (P)

Gorush (Z)

Haha =[

Bartar

Greece83 Posts

May 04 2005 06:07 GMT

#1534

MPXMX u are so right.This "lack" of toss users kinda helped me get A 10000+ season2 since tvp is my weakest mu.After B- most of my games were vs terrans and zergs.More terrans.Actually i played more tvp vs the canadian vasmos than all the other tvp vs high-ranked koreans.Clearly korean users are mostly terran/zergs and since they are top ranked,toss users are back-ranked.
Btw,what u think about the difficulty of this season?Pros still play?I see a lot of new names.

Rebanned_manner

Greece377 Posts

May 04 2005 06:20 GMT

#1535

FA thank u for ur gosu posts - we learn many things thx

-PhiL-

362 Posts

May 04 2005 06:20 GMT

#1536

The first week the skill level is awesome. Then theres some time where its getting bit easier again and a week or so before the end of the season its pretty hard again.

Obvisously the pro gamers wont take their old smurfs..

MPXMX

Canada4309 Posts

May 04 2005 06:33 GMT

#1537

I don't think this season will be considerably easier than the last (maybe it will be harder). It's possible that the pros have sampled the ladder and will leave it, but considering Nada had something like 60-70% wins on it (which is probably not much better than his record in progaming practice), I don't think they will abandon this competition. I know they don't play on top of their lungs in such laddesr, but PGT does provide diverse and skilled opposition/practice. As long as pros play, everyone else good and bad will play, and besides, top koeran amateurs seem to take a liking to the ladder too.

Lower ranks will be easier for sure though. I think PGT is more known this season, that means more regular players will join the ladder and reside in lower ranks. If there are more crappy players, it's easier to climb. If it's easier to climb, that means crappy players will climb, then it's even easier to climb higher. But as long as you climb high enough I'm sure it will becoem very hard and interesting

Liquid`Jinro

Sweden33719 Posts

May 04 2005 20:33 GMT

#1538

On May 04 2005 15:20 Rebanned_manner wrote:
FA thank u for ur gosu posts - we learn many things thx

Thanks :D

Rebanned_manner

Greece377 Posts

May 05 2005 21:16 GMT

#1539

PGT is down? T_T is ladder still working? T_T

Resonate

United Kingdom8402 Posts

May 05 2005 21:22 GMT

#1540

All that race/map balance stuff just makes me think that in a ladder, protoss are not so good, while in knockout play they stand more of a chance. Maybe more 1-off strats can be used in competition play, or maybe cos progamers prepare so much for certain opponents. I do think that the maps generally suck ass in MBC tho.