Originally, each group plays out like this per day - Game 1: A vs B Game 2: C vs D Game 3: Winner of Game 1 vs Winner of Game 2 Game 4: Loser of 1 vs Loser of Game 2 Game 5: Loser of Game 3 vs Winner of Game 4
Now, they are only playing Games 1~3 for TWO groups per day. Game 4~5 for the TWO groups will be played during another day.
Wow. This is one of the most exciting TvTs I can remember watching in a long long time. Very agressive play and amazing defence. Can Nada's agressive strategies overcome Iris' suddenly fearsome macro?
I can't believe how much the love for Nada has fallen. Usually he would get threads for his matches up days before. Teamliquid does not believe anymore.
On June 18 2009 18:41 blomsterjohn wrote: im wondering, are anyone getting MBC on tvants? Gets posted all the time but MBC havent been on ants for like ages (for me atleast), ?
The MBCGame on tvants is grabbed off from Daumsports so if daumsports is not streaming, it won't work
On June 18 2009 18:41 blomsterjohn wrote: im wondering, are anyone getting MBC on tvants? Gets posted all the time but MBC havent been on ants for like ages (for me atleast), ?
On June 18 2009 18:29 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: I prefer this thread, it's complete and wholesome.
it does not have predictions.
Eh well I don't really care about them.
He didn't say you should care or not, just said its not complete.
And I was saying I found it wholesome/complete without the predictions. I wasn't saying he was saying I should care. I was merely stating that a lack of predictions did not make the thread incomplete for me.
On June 18 2009 18:29 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: I prefer this thread, it's complete and wholesome.
it does not have predictions.
Eh well I don't really care about them.
He didn't say you should care or not, just said its not complete.
And I was saying I found it wholesome/complete without the predictions. I wasn't saying he was saying I should care. I was merely stating that a lack of predictions did not make the thread incomplete for me.
Berserker pushing across the map again with Tank / Vulture and getting a min only in the middle of the map. Nada sieging up to defend. Stalls a force coming from the bottom.
Berserker looks to have many more tanks, and also a good number of goliaths now.
Nada getting control tower, for cloak I would assume. But he is in a bad spot now, simply doesnt have enough Wraiths to be dangerous. Berserker moving around him with tank / Goliath, sieging up.
Nada getting Tanks to the low ground at the min only! SCVs run!
Iris also placed tanks at the Min only that just completed for Nada, so both are deprived of that income for the moment. Iris also has another CC done that he floats towards the 9 position.
Nice, Nada tried to snipe Iris floating CC (going towards a new expo) with his wraiths, But iris manages to repair it with a lot of scvs and kills some wraiths with goliaths.
Was afk for a second. Heard lotsa screams from outside .
ANyway, Iris killing some tanks with Vultures and Mines and pushing in with Tanks near the 3 position where Nada wanted to expand. Nada retreats his CC. Iris should have his 9 CC running safely by now.
Nada looking to reclaim the ground of his Min only, but is driven back for the moment. His economic situation getting worse and worse with every moment. FInally makes his move and clears out the force there.
Iris has a force at the min-only lowground AGAIN. Nada sliding his SCVS, barely gets them away in time. Vultures / Goliaths moving in on the tanks that Nada has there. He is hard pressed to defend.
Tank/Vulture battle in the middle of the map. Both siege up with some distance. Finally engage, both sides lose some tanks. Iris just a-moves over Nada's tankline there.
Nada looking to expand at 3 again, clears out some mines with Vultures. Places his CC now. Iris moving in the middle and has claimed the min only of the top left position.
Again Iris just a-moves Nada's forces in the middle of the map. He has reached the min only again. Does Nada have anything to defend even? Floats his CC away.
Nada tried dropping the main base, but some Goliaths foiled that plan. Sends some Vultures around in Iris' territory and finds the 11 min only. Quickly killed though. Now he is more or less contained with Iris taking the entire top left.
On June 18 2009 19:10 pripple wrote: how come the liquibets for these matches are 0 points? im sure this is the only time i get them all right would be just my luck.
I think they're 0 points because they were added too late and it wouldn't be fair to the people who don't check LB every day.
On June 18 2009 19:10 pripple wrote: how come the liquibets for these matches are 0 points? im sure this is the only time i get them all right would be just my luck.
They are set to 0 points if the time between "liquibet becomes available" and "match is played" is too little, to give everyone participating in liquibet a chance to get them right. Sucks to lose a season just because you missed a vote.
On June 18 2009 19:22 Kentor wrote: fuck they take forever. god. it's been 50 minutes and they're just starting the 2nd game out of 6....................
On June 18 2009 19:22 Kentor wrote: fuck they take forever. god. it's been 50 minutes and they're just starting the 2nd game out of 6....................
25 minute tvt?
they should have started 2nd game at 3:00 or something -_-
Just when the scouting SCV is killed, Horang2 adds a Citadel of Adun! Upmagic placing a CC and sending a Vulture out to scout and harass!
2nd factory also building for Upmagic. Might be something like Vulture pressure to defend the expo. Horang2 expanding too! Templar Archives and RObotics started, so this will be a drop! Scouting Vulture is narrowly blocked from entering the main!
On June 18 2009 19:47 Aesop wrote: Very early SCV for Upmagic goes across the map - Proxy barracks incoming. That is like an 8 rax? Iris walling off his main base with Depot / Rax.
From his past games, he proxy his barrack closer to his opponent to be able to float the rack over after making 1 marine
On June 18 2009 19:45 Aesop wrote: Winners' is on. Up is purple (left) Iris is orange (right). They allied Iris.
What does the ally thing mean, why do they do it?
To differentiate better between the players - one will have red circles when you click him, one will have yellow - helps a lot with very similar colours.
First rine attacking for Up, but wont be able to do much. He lifts off the Rax and uses it as a floating scout.
First Vulture from Iris destroys the SCV that was building a CC at Up's natural. Up added a Starport too and a control tower upon seeing Iris'. Iris adding a CC in his main base.
On June 18 2009 19:49 Aesop wrote: What?? That marine got in, saw a factory building, and lost his life. Starport building in the lower part of Iris' base though.
Floating scoutrax sees the same, also a machine shop building. Heads for the Starport!!
Good start overall for Upmagic. Iris building a Wraith.
... and Upmagic is getting cloak at his control tower! First Wraith out for Iris, kills the Scouting barracks - or tries to at least. Barracks lands, but is heavily damaged.
Wraiths transfer from main to natural. Iris goes for a Hanbang counter attack with 4 tanks and 3 Goliaths. Will be hitting the natural anytime soon.
Up is in Iris' natural too. SCVs try to fight back. Up lifted his natural CC, his counterattack is stopped for the moment by rabid SCVs. This game might tip after all!
Up enters the natural with some Vultures, kills a few SCVs until Goliaths show up. He has still lost control of his natural. Sieging inside Iris' natural now, who brings out Goliaths and SCVs. That first tank is killed, 2nd is still standing, but will get taken out.
Upmagic now without any offensive units and not mining from his natural!
Up finally destroyed that mini contain at his natural, landed his CC again. Iris sending 2 tank / goliath around the ridge towards the natural cliff again.
NO! Actually he abuses the Assimilator. You can hit that one from the bottom expansion, and he placed the tanks there. No gas for up!
Iris bringing up some tanks to reclaim his natural and pushing across the map with Goliath / Tank. I wonder if Up is able to defend better this time. He reclaimed the Gas at his natural in any case. Dropship takes out the sieged tanks above Iris' natural. Up expanding to top left.
Iris now sieging to the right of Up's main, where he can shoot into it! He can hit a machine shop and an armory, that is presumably upgrading something. Up counters with tanks and dropships and manages to clean out this infestation.
Two Dropships for Up moved east, but one ALMOST gets shot down by a Goliath. They retreat for the moment. Iris reinforcing the position above Upmagic's main and dropping units inside of it again. Upmagic comes from the open and a-moves over the small force. GOod job on his part.
Iris had a 17 kill siege tank there, but finally it got taken out. Upmagic expanding at the bottom left position now, cleans out some Goliaths there. Dropships meet at the bottom but Iris retreats. Iris also taking the top right expo.
Dropships find the 11 expo! Missile turret finishes and almost shoots down one ship. Does Up have enough drop-power to defend?
Looks like he just abandons that base. Iris doesnt kill the CC actually, I wonder why ... he retreats for the moment when he sees the CC floating away.
Iris won an important battle there. Now he can push for the natural or siege up above the main base again. Upmagic barely has 2-3 tanks there to defend.
He chooses to siege the main again. That critical armory might go down this time.
Up tries to drop on the troops inside his base. Cleans them out for now, but Iris is reinforcing, and his tanks cover the dropzone, so he can safely put them there. 5 more ships on the way. Up on the ropes!
Next drop does less damage than expected, but the factories are all in Tank range by now. Iris taking bottom right. Up's main getting slowly torn apart.
Drop finds the expansion at 8!! Up shakes his head. Clears out the tanks sieging his mainbase with his drop force. Still on four factories only. Iris continues to the high ground above the natural. Sieges up there. SCVs blow up! Upmagic drops on top of that force - or does he? Nothing in the ships?? Sieges some tanks, but concedes the game.
Upmagic looked to me to be ahead until he horribly lost that battle in the middle, but even then it looked like his economy was better? How did he lose so convincingly?
Leta builds a very early Barracks at the base below fantasy's main base. This will be good scouting or even possible to build infantry in fantasy's main base if he floats it!
Leta building a Marine at that weird position. Getting a factory in his main base now. Floats his barracks into fantasy's main. fantasy doesnt have a wall-in however, so his efforts at getting scouting in are sort of pointless. SCV and Marine towards fantasy's main
ANd a 2nd fac for Leta now!
Leta kills fantasy's marine with like 20 hp left on his own! But a second one is built soon and chases it around.
First vulture out for Leta, starport for fantasy. Leta looks ready to expand at his natural.
Starts the CC, looks like a 2 fac vulture opening. Getting an armory too, against any wraith harassment. Scouting Barracks is still around. Will find the Starport any time soon.
fantasy starting his CC behind the wall-in. Leta wins a small Vulture battle with 2-1. First wraith harassing the scouting barracks.
Dual machine shop up for Leta and dual upgrades running. I honestly dont know which ones. Could be Vulture upgrades, could be siege, could be gol range against wraiths.
it's mines! He placed some at the ramp. Tries to push the 3 tanks of fantasy with mines too, loses a vulture, but has to retreat without damage.
Leta happily mining the areas around fantasy's base. fantasy has a control tower now and sending a single wraith to harass. Port done for Leta too, scanners coming online now. Fantasy sending out some vultures himself.They pass the scouting rax though, so they are spotted.
Leta taking a third, but the Vultures stop the SCV!
I am using the UUSEE stream on wfbrood, I think you are using the relays provided by TL users?
Leta's wraith finds a dropship of fantasy's that drops vultures into the main base. Dropship will die to that wraith, Vultures get killed by other Vultures. GOod defense by Leta so far and he has his third coming up.
Attack imminent on Leta's third. Three wraiths by fantasy scoring quite a few tank kills. Fantasy sieges below the ramp, but leta has too much defense there. Harassing Wraiths killed by Goliaths.
Excellent mine placement by fantasy allows him to push into the right lane. Leta defends with some dropships. Fantasy reinforcing that lane with tank / vulture. Leta sending his 3 ships up towards the third base!
Retreats upon seeing units move there. Fantasy kills some tanks on the right.
Leta finally lands his drop at the ramp leading towards fantasy's natural, and also blocking the 4th base of fantasy's with that. fantasy sending in 2 dropships and clears out that contain easily.
Leta scoring some kills on the right again, by dropping fantasy's forces there. Neither is gaining an advantage at the moment. Leta landing his 4th CC at the 4 base. Both have a scifac done by now, but neither is opting for BCs.
Leta with like - SEVEN? dropships? Drops a force to defend the new CC.
The dropforce is pushing the right lane towards fantasy's tankline there. Fantasy taking the base at 10 now, evening the count.
Leta with a massive dropship advantage, fantasy has like 3-4 only. Both meet on the left half. Mines go off; Leta loses a dropship, but manages to hold the ground at the 9 expansion. He might drop fantasy's main base now!
Another two dropships sniped for Leta. Fantasy exploits that by taking the ground at 9 with a ground force. Another two ships go down. This seriously puts Leta behind. Fantasy taking the base at 9 immediately. Leta tries taking the 3 in return. Destroys a CC by fantasy there (who is spamming them, as it seems. )
fantasy moving in his ships in return, but retreats for the moment. Taking 9 though.
fantasy inched forward his tanks at the 7 position, but still cannot hit anything vital. Leta moving into the 10 with some tanks / vultures. Fantasy dropforce coming to clean up. Mines are helping fantasy, who drags them into some tanks. Good attack overall for Leta though.
fantasy pressuring 7 a little harder now. CC is in his tank range, but he doesnt have a spotter on the high ground yet. Finally gets a wraith there. ALso cleans out the 3 position, seriously putting him ahead in available resources. Leta in trouble holding his 7 base now. But he pushes into 10, slaughters SCVs. fantasy drop coming in. MInes go off, HUGE blows, no idea who died with how much.
Fantasy taking the base at 3 now too. Leta dropping a force into the 7 contain and finally securing that base again. Fantasy still has his wraith there though, haha.
Fantasy attacking the 4 base now, quite sucessfully in total, Leta lifts off until tank reinforcements arrive.
Ah, the central force secured the success of a dropforce that successfully killed fantasy's base at 9. Leta looking to even out the expansion race, although he still cannot mine from 4. Drops some force inside fantasy's territory. but fantasy is quick to respond with his own drop capacities.
Leta finally goes to reclaim the territory at 4. But STILL doesn't manage to. This expansion could prove critical. fantasy pushing towards that location on the ground, meeting little resistance. that min only towards the middle is also in danger for Leta.
fantasy cleaning out that drop force, which had been moved towards 10. Leta losing control of the 9 spot again, where he had built a new CC. CC about to die now. Leta also floating the CC from 4 around. I wonder if fantasy has any income left?
Leta kills the force that took over 9 again. Or at least tries to. Some tanks remaining for fantasy.
fantasy sending 10 tanks towards the min only! The CC will die if nothing happens.
Only Up vs. Horang had the outcome I wanted so far. I should start liking new players ... but Fantasy did deserve to win I suppose.
I'm sure I feel the same way as everyone else about the next game, so if I am disappointed, everyone else will be as well at least, better to share in the misery.
So i think leta was a head in base count, but fantasy kept picking the better battle spots and killing / stoping mine time from more expos than leta could keep up. or leta over extended him self. (and then lost all those full drops TT)
fantasy, congratulations! Jaedong vs fantasy... if it happens... it will be hard for fantasy. Jaedong's muta are too imba ㅠ.ㅠ... poor marines, poor SCV...
Oh, what the hell? So, yup right, that DS waste costed him the game. Sucks :< Anyway, can be fun watching Fantasy vs JD, instead of Leta's 2 port wrights.
heh, gotta love the oov live reports thread back in the day. Always went like OOV IS DEFENDING WITH SCV, oov lost expo at 9, drop on oovs main, lost alot of scvs, gg oov wins.
What's the commercial about with the commentators sitting in casual clothes around a table? On one part the text says "Bisu vs. Jaedong vs. Flash" and it says other such things elsewhere.
On June 18 2009 21:02 keV. wrote: Fantasy needs to be put in his place as a non elite player. Jaedong will straighten him out.
fantasy non-elite? What? This is only true if by "non-elite" you mean, "Not Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash." fantasy's right up there with the rest of the best, Leta and Effort and Kal and who-all else. Much as I don't like the guy.
Too bad jjonga already tried the Heartbreak Forge contain cheese on JD. Had Movie been the one playing that game, he probably would have won. Wonder what else the CJ Protoss family has cooked up for JD given the number of times they've played him lately (and the quality Zergs in CJ to practice with).
On June 18 2009 21:02 keV. wrote: Fantasy needs to be put in his place as a non elite player. Jaedong will straighten him out.
fantasy non-elite? What? This is only true if by "non-elite" you mean, "Not Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash." fantasy's right up there with the rest of the best, Leta and Effort and Kal and who-all else. Much as I don't like the guy.
Yes, I mean he is not in the same class as the Bisu/JD/Flash club. Yet some seem to disagree.
On June 18 2009 21:02 keV. wrote: Fantasy needs to be put in his place as a non elite player. Jaedong will straighten him out.
fantasy non-elite? What? This is only true if by "non-elite" you mean, "Not Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash." fantasy's right up there with the rest of the best, Leta and Effort and Kal and who-all else. Much as I don't like the guy.
Yes, I mean he is not in the same class as the Bisu/JD/Flash club. Yet some seem to disagree.
When it comes to Starleagues, Fantasy is definitely in the same class as Bisu/JD/Flash, and is arguably ahead of Flash.
On June 18 2009 21:02 keV. wrote: Fantasy needs to be put in his place as a non elite player. Jaedong will straighten him out.
fantasy non-elite? What? This is only true if by "non-elite" you mean, "Not Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash." fantasy's right up there with the rest of the best, Leta and Effort and Kal and who-all else. Much as I don't like the guy.
Yes, I mean he is not in the same class as the Bisu/JD/Flash club. Yet some seem to disagree.
When it comes to Starleagues, Fantasy is definitely in the same class as Bisu/JD/Flash, and is arguably ahead of Flash.
Oov is the only reason fantasy is a good series player.
On June 18 2009 21:10 darktreb wrote: When it comes to Starleagues, Fantasy is definitely in the same class as Bisu/JD/Flash, and is arguably ahead of Flash.
And maybe ahead of Bisu. U know 3-0 means something ;D
On June 18 2009 21:02 keV. wrote: Fantasy needs to be put in his place as a non elite player. Jaedong will straighten him out.
fantasy non-elite? What? This is only true if by "non-elite" you mean, "Not Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash." fantasy's right up there with the rest of the best, Leta and Effort and Kal and who-all else. Much as I don't like the guy.
Yes, I mean he is not in the same class as the Bisu/JD/Flash club. Yet some seem to disagree.
When it comes to Starleagues, Fantasy is definitely in the same class as Bisu/JD/Flash, and is arguably ahead of Flash.
how is he ahead of flash? he has no 1sts.... hes just got 2nd place. again you said starleagues. he still has a few to get before he is on solid ground with flash
On June 18 2009 21:02 keV. wrote: Fantasy needs to be put in his place as a non elite player. Jaedong will straighten him out.
fantasy non-elite? What? This is only true if by "non-elite" you mean, "Not Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash." fantasy's right up there with the rest of the best, Leta and Effort and Kal and who-all else. Much as I don't like the guy.
Yes, I mean he is not in the same class as the Bisu/JD/Flash club. Yet some seem to disagree.
When it comes to Starleagues, Fantasy is definitely in the same class as Bisu/JD/Flash, and is arguably ahead of Flash.
Oov is the only reason fantasy is a good series player.
You guys are all really retarded if you actually believe that. I'm not a Fantasy devotee by any means but it's annoying to see this idiocy on the forums so much.
As a side note, Movie-Jaedong are 2-2 lifetime ... this should be a really good game.
On June 18 2009 21:02 keV. wrote: Fantasy needs to be put in his place as a non elite player. Jaedong will straighten him out.
fantasy non-elite? What? This is only true if by "non-elite" you mean, "Not Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash." fantasy's right up there with the rest of the best, Leta and Effort and Kal and who-all else. Much as I don't like the guy.
Yes, I mean he is not in the same class as the Bisu/JD/Flash club. Yet some seem to disagree.
When it comes to Starleagues, Fantasy is definitely in the same class as Bisu/JD/Flash, and is arguably ahead of Flash.
Oov is the only reason fantasy is a good series player.
You guys are all really retarded if you actually believe that. I'm not a Fantasy devotee by any means but it's annoying to see this idiocy on the forums so much.
As a side note, Movie-Jaedong are 2-2 lifetime ... this should be a really good game.
I didn't know my opinion with evidence could qualify as idiocy. Thanks for the insight nerd.
On June 18 2009 21:02 keV. wrote: Fantasy needs to be put in his place as a non elite player. Jaedong will straighten him out.
fantasy non-elite? What? This is only true if by "non-elite" you mean, "Not Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash." fantasy's right up there with the rest of the best, Leta and Effort and Kal and who-all else. Much as I don't like the guy.
Yes, I mean he is not in the same class as the Bisu/JD/Flash club. Yet some seem to disagree.
When it comes to Starleagues, Fantasy is definitely in the same class as Bisu/JD/Flash, and is arguably ahead of Flash.
how is he ahead of flash? he has no 1sts.... hes just got 2nd place. again you said starleagues. he still has a few to get before he is on solid ground with flash
I'm one of the biggest Flash fans out there but I will admit that at the moment, Fantasy seems like the more likely player to win a league than Flash. Making two straight OSL finals and taking them both to 5 games is no joke. Can you really imagine Flash 3-0ing Bisu? Fantasy was born to play a long series.
Personally, I think (hope) Flash wins one of the two upcoming leagues - at which point all debate ends. But, objectively, Flash has dropped out of the last 2 MSLs and OSLs in less than spectacular fashion while Fantasy was making finals.
On June 18 2009 21:02 keV. wrote: Fantasy needs to be put in his place as a non elite player. Jaedong will straighten him out.
fantasy non-elite? What? This is only true if by "non-elite" you mean, "Not Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash." fantasy's right up there with the rest of the best, Leta and Effort and Kal and who-all else. Much as I don't like the guy.
Yes, I mean he is not in the same class as the Bisu/JD/Flash club. Yet some seem to disagree.
When it comes to Starleagues, Fantasy is definitely in the same class as Bisu/JD/Flash, and is arguably ahead of Flash.
Oov is the only reason fantasy is a good series player.
You guys are all really retarded if you actually believe that. I'm not a Fantasy devotee by any means but it's annoying to see this idiocy on the forums so much.
As a side note, Movie-Jaedong are 2-2 lifetime ... this should be a really good game.
I didn't know my opinion with evidence could qualify as idiocy. Thanks for the insight nerd.
I don't think people give fantasy enough credit. Every time he wins, it's always "thanks to oov". If it were that easy, oov would just play himself and win.
On June 18 2009 21:02 keV. wrote: Fantasy needs to be put in his place as a non elite player. Jaedong will straighten him out.
fantasy non-elite? What? This is only true if by "non-elite" you mean, "Not Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash." fantasy's right up there with the rest of the best, Leta and Effort and Kal and who-all else. Much as I don't like the guy.
Yes, I mean he is not in the same class as the Bisu/JD/Flash club. Yet some seem to disagree.
When it comes to Starleagues, Fantasy is definitely in the same class as Bisu/JD/Flash, and is arguably ahead of Flash.
how is he ahead of flash? he has no 1sts.... hes just got 2nd place. again you said starleagues. he still has a few to get before he is on solid ground with flash
I'm one of the biggest Flash fans out there but I will admit that at the moment, Fantasy seems like the more likely player to win a league than Flash. Making two straight OSL finals and taking them both to 5 games is no joke. Can you really imagine Flash 3-0ing Bisu? Fantasy was born to play a long series.
Personally, I think (hope) Flash wins one of the two upcoming leagues - at which point all debate ends. But, objectively, Flash has dropped out of the last 2 MSLs and OSLs in less than spectacular fashion while Fantasy was making finals.
fantasy was bisu's team mate its differnt forgg 3-0'd jaedong. same storry team mates.
On June 18 2009 21:19 samachking wrote: Fuck this greedy gay all in by Movie.
Seriously, Fantasy better skullrape Movie. If Movie gets into the MSL over any of these players so he can lose as soon as he gets to a BO match I will destroy an orphanage.
How presumptuous for him to cheese his way into a tournament when there are good players who could be in it instead.
Yeah, start pumping lings just after your hydra den is dead and not any sooner, those are known to be so bad against goons. And getting no sunkens definitely paid off this game. I'll give up on handpicking liquibet winners, coinflip it is.
Jaedong had ample clues about the strategy. 2 early goons, later 3 goons moving out. Cybernetics upgrading but no sair anywhere. I have no idea why he thought hydras with no range (no speed early on either, no time) could possibly hold that, and without sunkens as well.
Don't know why everyone's hating on Movie. If you've watched his games, he's been inconsistent (as are most newer players) but this kid can play. He's been overshadowed by Effort and Skyhigh but like all CJ players, he has a ton of game sense and the modern mechanics to back it up. Dude is now 3-2 against JD, that's more than luck.
He probably still doesn't make it out of this group (especially given Fantasy's TvP which stomped him on God's Garden in PL round 4) but this guy is only going to get better. He'll be up there in the Dragon echelon of Protoss players soon enough.
On June 18 2009 21:22 ShloobeR wrote: dont get why he would pump hydra instead of mutaling
Yea uhh at one point was he going to do that?
by the time goons were stomping down his door it was kinda late for a muta switch. Mutas are damn terrible against range goons anyway and his lings weren't speed ugpraded.
He didn't have a choice.
It was either pump unupgraded hydralisks or unupgraded lings. If Movie had attacked not 30 seconds later Jaedong would have been fine.
Maybe JD should just have sacrificed the hatch in the front and sunken up behind it. But maybe Movie just turns to JDs third then and rapes it. I don't know. But I haven't seen a build like this forever.
Yeah JD was really too confident :x He probably thought he could just overpower him with hydra but one sunken and some speedlings could have gone a very long way... :s
On June 18 2009 21:24 NovaTheFeared wrote: Jaedong had ample clues about the strategy. 2 early goons, later 3 goons moving out. Cybernetics upgrading but no sair anywhere. I have no idea why he thought hydras with no range (no speed early on either, no time) could possibly hold that, and without sunkens as well.
same he failed to adapt, something he normally does. he let movie take control of the game and did not scout well TT.
On June 18 2009 21:22 ShloobeR wrote: dont get why he would pump hydra instead of mutaling
Yea uhh at one point was he going to do that?
by the time goons were stomping down his door it was kinda late for a muta switch. Mutas are damn terrible against range goons anyway and his lings weren't speed ugpraded.
He didn't have a choice.
It was either pump unupgraded hydralisks or unupgraded lings. If Movie had attacked not 30 seconds later Jaedong would have been fine.
his spire was up and ready before the goons hit
even slowlings with muta are good enough to stop goons
On June 18 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote: Don't know why everyone's hating on Movie. If you've watched his games, he's been inconsistent (as are most newer players) but this kid can play. He's been overshadowed by Effort and Skyhigh but like all CJ players, he has a ton of game sense and the modern mechanics to back it up. Dude is now 3-2 against JD, that's more than luck.
He probably still doesn't make it out of this group (especially given Fantasy's TvP which stomped him on God's Garden in PL round 4) but this guy is only going to get better. He'll be up there in the Dragon echelon of Protoss players soon enough.
Nah I don't think he ever will be anywhere near Dragon echelon, would have seen something by now at least.
He's just too wildly inconsistent... like Zero -.-
Fantasy is the HEAVY favorite here but it should be noted that Movie's been practicing for PvZ and then PvT (guaranteed against the winner of Fantasy/Leta) whereas Fantasy has almost certainly been practicing for TvT and then TvJ.
Another brilliant build or crafty cheese and Movie could pull a monster upset here.
On June 18 2009 21:27 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: lol fuck i just realized this next game is on outsider
if movie goes 2-0 im gonna be SO mad
what if fantasy didnt practice tvp at all and movie has some retarded cheese and it works oh my god i'll cry
I just don't fit in to the fan favorite crowd, I'd much rather see some new player breaking out then the ones we know are good advancing constantly. I hope he does go 2-0.
On June 18 2009 21:27 darktreb wrote: Fantasy is the HEAVY favorite here but it should be noted that Movie's been practicing for PvZ and then PvT (guaranteed against the winner of Fantasy/Leta) whereas Fantasy has almost certainly been practicing for TvT and then TvJ.
Another brilliant build or crafty cheese and Movie could pull a monster upset here.
On June 18 2009 21:27 darktreb wrote: Fantasy is the HEAVY favorite here but it should be noted that Movie's been practicing for PvZ and then PvT (guaranteed against the winner of Fantasy/Leta) whereas Fantasy has almost certainly been practicing for TvT and then TvJ.
Another brilliant build or crafty cheese and Movie could pull a monster upset here.
lol. You gotta admit, JD practically is his own race.
Lol at all the people saying that Jaedong should have gotten lings or gone muta ling. When you have NO LING SPEED (cause slow lings are awesome against range goons) and you already started hydra ups + probably most of your larvae are already making hydras, that's a great time to start mutaling pump. Yep.
Give Movie credit for a baller build + good micro + exploiting Jaedong's greed and lack of adaption -_-.
On June 18 2009 21:28 keV. wrote: I'd much rather see some new player breaking out then the ones we know are good advancing constantly. I hope he does go 2-0.
It's not really funny because he will lose in Ro16-Ro8 after all
On June 18 2009 21:20 Ancestral wrote: How presumptuous for him to cheese his way into a tournament when there are good players who could be in it instead.
How presumptuous of Boxer to bunker rush x3 for a title.
Owait. (Well, okay, it was - but point is, he won.)
Seriously, a win's a win, ugly or pretty.
And this one wasn't even cheese. All-in =/= cheese, whoo.
On June 18 2009 21:27 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: lol fuck i just realized this next game is on outsider
if movie goes 2-0 im gonna be SO mad
what if fantasy didnt practice tvp at all and movie has some retarded cheese and it works oh my god i'll cry
I just don't fit in to the fan favorite crowd, I'd much rather see some new player breaking out then the ones we know are good advancing constantly. I hope he does go 2-0.
as for the muta ling i think the main reason is JD didn't have enough gas yet. if you watch the replay he was using all his income and only got like 8 hydras.... = 200 gas = 2 mutas.... with his greedy build he just lost. I think he should've just gotten 2 sunks in the beginning while he saw those goons moving out.... I mean come on JD... i could expect this from most other zergs but not you. The signs were obvious! Even if you lost at least put up a better fight instead of getting steamrolled... @#$AS man.
Oh and by signs are obvious... his lings were there.. his O lord came in (although late).... Saw no starport so therefore what can he think.... hmmm a rush!... you had AMPLE time to get lings or sunks... !!!!!
On June 18 2009 21:28 keV. wrote: I just don't fit in to the fan favorite crowd, I'd much rather see some new player breaking out then the ones we know are good advancing constantly. I hope he does go 2-0.
It's not really funny because he will lose in Ro16-Ro8 after all
Yea because historically, the good players always win and are good forever.
On June 18 2009 21:22 ShloobeR wrote: dont get why he would pump hydra instead of mutaling
Yea uhh at one point was he going to do that?
by the time goons were stomping down his door it was kinda late for a muta switch. Mutas are damn terrible against range goons anyway and his lings weren't speed ugpraded.
He didn't have a choice.
It was either pump unupgraded hydralisks or unupgraded lings. If Movie had attacked not 30 seconds later Jaedong would have been fine.
uhm starting lingspeed and muta\ling would have been the correct thing to do, he even had lots of time adapting to it. Placing a sunk or 2 at both location and mass muta\lings would probably have saved him. And its better with mutas\slow lings vs goons than unupgraded hydras.
On June 18 2009 21:29 Conquest101 wrote: Lol at all the people saying that Jaedong should have gotten lings or gone muta ling. When you have NO LING SPEED (cause slow lings are awesome against range goons) and you already started hydra ups + probably most of your larvae are already making hydras, that's a great time to start mutaling pump. Yep.
Give Movie credit for a baller build + good micro + exploiting Jaedong's greed and lack of adaption -_-.
On June 18 2009 21:29 Conquest101 wrote: Lol at all the people saying that Jaedong should have gotten lings or gone muta ling. When you have NO LING SPEED (cause slow lings are awesome against range goons) and you already started hydra ups + probably most of your larvae are already making hydras, that's a great time to start mutaling pump. Yep.
Give Movie credit for a baller build + good micro + exploiting Jaedong's greed and lack of adaption -_-.
GG Movie. <3
That chokepoint at JD's natural between his 5th hatch was a really nice place to put him in a bad position too. After taking out that and the hydra den he couldn't really lose.
On June 18 2009 21:27 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: lol fuck i just realized this next game is on outsider
if movie goes 2-0 im gonna be SO mad
what if fantasy didnt practice tvp at all and movie has some retarded cheese and it works oh my god i'll cry
I just don't fit in to the fan favorite crowd, I'd much rather see some new player breaking out then the ones we know are good advancing constantly. I hope he does go 2-0.
starcraft for me is about good starcraft & its more likely that jaedong and fantasy will play good starcraft in a BoX than movie
movie is cool but he'd get rolled by half this MSL roster in a best of 5, whereas fantasy will show us something incredible several times through his MSL run, as will the rest of the top tier players in this MSL
all-ins like that are neat, but they make for a really shitty league if that's all that happens. can you honestly say that game was better than fantasy vs leta just now?
On June 18 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote: Don't know why everyone's hating on Movie. If you've watched his games, he's been inconsistent (as are most newer players) but this kid can play. He's been overshadowed by Effort and Skyhigh but like all CJ players, he has a ton of game sense and the modern mechanics to back it up. Dude is now 3-2 against JD, that's more than luck.
He probably still doesn't make it out of this group (especially given Fantasy's TvP which stomped him on God's Garden in PL round 4) but this guy is only going to get better. He'll be up there in the Dragon echelon of Protoss players soon enough.
Nah I don't think he ever will be anywhere near Dragon echelon, would have seen something by now at least.
He's just too wildly inconsistent... like Zero -.-
Isn't this how great players get started though? By putting up some surprising results mixed in with some disappointing ones. Not everyone pulls a Flash and just starts rolling from day 1. Movie's got all the tools to be great, as well as a great team, and great teacher (Much by many accounts is a great strategist, even by progamer standards). These days everyone has mechanics so in a lot of ways it's still game sense that separates, and Movie has it.
Movie just needs to believe he is a top player, kind of like how Effort figured it out steadily, and Skyhigh discovered overnight. Maybe "Dragon" level is a stretch, but 3-2 against Jaedong in the past few months alone ... that says a lot.
On June 18 2009 21:22 ShloobeR wrote: dont get why he would pump hydra instead of mutaling
Yea uhh at one point was he going to do that?
by the time goons were stomping down his door it was kinda late for a muta switch. Mutas are damn terrible against range goons anyway and his lings weren't speed ugpraded.
He didn't have a choice.
It was either pump unupgraded hydralisks or unupgraded lings. If Movie had attacked not 30 seconds later Jaedong would have been fine.
uhm starting lingspeed and muta\ling would have been the correct thing to do, he even had lots of time adapting to it. Placing a sunk or 2 at both location and mass muta\lings would probably have saved him. And its better with mutas\slow lings vs goons than unupgraded hydras.
Oystein I don't think he had the gas....
By the time he realized "OH CRAP GOONS ARE COMING" he was already pumping hydralisks and had invested gas into the speed upgrade. Yes that was absolute garbage adaption from Jaedong but who the hell expects an all goon timing push anyway >.>
aww, this day sucks really, i couldnt sleep this night, lost a paper i needed, couldnt sit down to learn, JD losing (+Nada too), arghh, i better shoot myself befor anything worse happens
On June 18 2009 21:27 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: lol fuck i just realized this next game is on outsider
if movie goes 2-0 im gonna be SO mad
what if fantasy didnt practice tvp at all and movie has some retarded cheese and it works oh my god i'll cry
I just don't fit in to the fan favorite crowd, I'd much rather see some new player breaking out then the ones we know are good advancing constantly. I hope he does go 2-0.
starcraft for me is about good starcraft & its more likely that jaedong and fantasy will play good starcraft in a BoX than movie
movie is cool but he'd get rolled by half this MSL roster in a best of 5, whereas fantasy will show us something incredible several times through his MSL run, as will the rest of the top tier players in this MSL
all-ins like that are neat, but they make for a really shitty league if that's all that happens. can you honestly say that game was better than fantasy vs leta just now?
On June 18 2009 21:27 ondik wrote: Movie is to Jaedong as by.hero is to Bisu.
As Bisu to Savior?
Nah that's something different. Both by.hero and movie are mediocre players (or at least have mediocre results) but are somehow capable to take down two currently best players in the world.
On June 18 2009 21:20 Ancestral wrote: How presumptuous for him to cheese his way into a tournament when there are good players who could be in it instead.
How presumptuous of Boxer to bunker rush x3 for a title.
Owait. (Well, okay, it was - but point is, he won.)
Seriously, a win's a win, ugly or pretty.
And this one wasn't even cheese. All-in =/= cheese, whoo.
Did you read the rest of my post? The chance that Movie makes it to Ro4 is essentially 0%, while any of the other three have a good chance.
BoxeR was in the finals, and I agree he should do whatever he can to win there. Also, Movie's play was very good there. I don't think Movie should lose on purpose because he won't make it as far in the league.
My literal meaning is that I really hope Fantasy makes it and then Jaedong or Leta make it because the MSL Ro16 and on will be better with them over Movie, who is good but clearly not on MSL winner (if he makes it to Ro4 I'll eat an entire row of watermelons).
On June 18 2009 21:27 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: lol fuck i just realized this next game is on outsider
if movie goes 2-0 im gonna be SO mad
what if fantasy didnt practice tvp at all and movie has some retarded cheese and it works oh my god i'll cry
I just don't fit in to the fan favorite crowd, I'd much rather see some new player breaking out then the ones we know are good advancing constantly. I hope he does go 2-0.
starcraft for me is about good starcraft & its more likely that jaedong and fantasy will play good starcraft in a BoX than movie
movie is cool but he'd get rolled by half this MSL roster in a best of 5, whereas fantasy will show us something incredible several times through his MSL run, as will the rest of the top tier players in this MSL
all-ins like that are neat, but they make for a really shitty league if that's all that happens. can you honestly say that game was better than fantasy vs leta just now?
I think you're assuming too much just because Movie hasn't really seen that much play time. Who knows how he'll do in the MSL. Who expected ZerO to go as far as he did? Yaknow?
On June 18 2009 21:27 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: lol fuck i just realized this next game is on outsider
if movie goes 2-0 im gonna be SO mad
what if fantasy didnt practice tvp at all and movie has some retarded cheese and it works oh my god i'll cry
I just don't fit in to the fan favorite crowd, I'd much rather see some new player breaking out then the ones we know are good advancing constantly. I hope he does go 2-0.
starcraft for me is about good starcraft & its more likely that jaedong and fantasy will play good starcraft in a BoX than movie
movie is cool but he'd get rolled by half this MSL roster in a best of 5, whereas fantasy will show us something incredible several times through his MSL run, as will the rest of the top tier players in this MSL
all-ins like that are neat, but they make for a really shitty league if that's all that happens. can you honestly say that game was better than fantasy vs leta just now?
I think you're assuming too much just because Movie hasn't really seen that much play time. Who knows how he'll do in the MSL. Who expected ZerO to go as far as he did? Yaknow?
New players historically crash in BoX series unless they've really shown a certain flair before hand.
Some people (I included) would rather have tried tested people go into the Ro16 so we have really good starcraft to watch instead of the possibility of a massacre in the next round. Yea yea it might happen and all that but it's preference anyway.
On June 18 2009 21:27 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: lol fuck i just realized this next game is on outsider
if movie goes 2-0 im gonna be SO mad
what if fantasy didnt practice tvp at all and movie has some retarded cheese and it works oh my god i'll cry
I just don't fit in to the fan favorite crowd, I'd much rather see some new player breaking out then the ones we know are good advancing constantly. I hope he does go 2-0.
starcraft for me is about good starcraft & its more likely that jaedong and fantasy will play good starcraft in a BoX than movie
movie is cool but he'd get rolled by half this MSL roster in a best of 5, whereas fantasy will show us something incredible several times through his MSL run, as will the rest of the top tier players in this MSL
all-ins like that are neat, but they make for a really shitty league if that's all that happens. can you honestly say that game was better than fantasy vs leta just now?
Well, considering I fell asleep in my chair and missed most of the fantasy vs leta game, no. I'm more of a fan of esports in general then the players as well. It's just interesting to see where the line is drawn, when an upset is "allowed" by the fans to take place. I've always said 'whenever'.
On June 18 2009 21:20 Ancestral wrote: How presumptuous for him to cheese his way into a tournament when there are good players who could be in it instead.
How presumptuous of Boxer to bunker rush x3 for a title.
Owait. (Well, okay, it was - but point is, he won.)
Seriously, a win's a win, ugly or pretty.
And this one wasn't even cheese. All-in =/= cheese, whoo.
Did you read the rest of my post? The chance that Movie makes it to Ro4 is essentially 0%, while any of the other three have a good chance.
by.hero made it to the round of four last OSL. Sure, Movie's chances aren't as good as a known standout like Bisu, JD, fantasy etc., but by your logic we would never want to see new players in SLs unless they pull a Flash or EffOrt style thing.
On June 18 2009 21:22 ShloobeR wrote: dont get why he would pump hydra instead of mutaling
Yea uhh at one point was he going to do that?
by the time goons were stomping down his door it was kinda late for a muta switch. Mutas are damn terrible against range goons anyway and his lings weren't speed ugpraded.
He didn't have a choice.
It was either pump unupgraded hydralisks or unupgraded lings. If Movie had attacked not 30 seconds later Jaedong would have been fine.
uhm starting lingspeed and muta\ling would have been the correct thing to do, he even had lots of time adapting to it. Placing a sunk or 2 at both location and mass muta\lings would probably have saved him. And its better with mutas\slow lings vs goons than unupgraded hydras.
Oystein I don't think he had the gas....
By the time he realized "OH CRAP GOONS ARE COMING" he was already pumping hydralisks and had invested gas into the speed upgrade. Yes that was absolute garbage adaption from Jaedong but who the hell expects an all goon timing push anyway >.>
Yeah I agree, but did he not see the 2 goons with his overlord? Its not to far fetched to assume your opponent is going straight for goons or goon\reaver. Also I think Jaedong was behind already from the start from having his hatch delayed and having Movie do nex before cannon.
On June 18 2009 21:20 Ancestral wrote: How presumptuous for him to cheese his way into a tournament when there are good players who could be in it instead.
How presumptuous of Boxer to bunker rush x3 for a title.
Owait. (Well, okay, it was - but point is, he won.)
Seriously, a win's a win, ugly or pretty.
And this one wasn't even cheese. All-in =/= cheese, whoo.
Did you read the rest of my post? The chance that Movie makes it to Ro4 is essentially 0%, while any of the other three have a good chance.
by.hero made it to the round of four last OSL. Sure, Movie's chances aren't as good as a known standout like Bisu, JD, fantasy etc., but by your logic we would never want to see new players in SLs unless they pull a Flash or EffOrt style thing.
Oh god stop comparing Movie to people like Zero and By.hero who were both performing VERY VERY VERY well in WL during this period in time so they were expected to do well and a BoX was a damn good test for them.
We haven't heard a peep from Movie till now. That's why some people aren't enthusiastic that he won.
On June 18 2009 21:20 Ancestral wrote: How presumptuous for him to cheese his way into a tournament when there are good players who could be in it instead.
How presumptuous of Boxer to bunker rush x3 for a title.
Owait. (Well, okay, it was - but point is, he won.)
Seriously, a win's a win, ugly or pretty.
And this one wasn't even cheese. All-in =/= cheese, whoo.
Did you read the rest of my post? The chance that Movie makes it to Ro4 is essentially 0%, while any of the other three have a good chance.
by.hero made it to the round of four last OSL. Sure, Movie's chances aren't as good as a known standout like Bisu, JD, fantasy etc., but by your logic we would never want to see new players in SLs unless they pull a Flash or EffOrt style thing.
Quit quoting small fractions of my posts! He may make it, note I made the comment about watermelons.
If he didn't double cheese I would be more privy to him, but in the end, if he makes it through, he did it because he outplayed his opponents, whether through mind or mechanics.
If he does get in Ro16, I REALLY hope he ends up putting a good performance, but my gut says he won't.
On June 18 2009 21:39 Jayme wrote: Oh god stop comparing Movie to people like Zero and By.hero who were both performing VERY VERY VERY well in WL during this period in time so they were expected to do well and a BoX was a damn good test for them.
We haven't heard a peep from Movie till now. That's why some people aren't enthusiastic that he won.
imo by.hero's a great comparison - he's barely played in the Proleague at all, only had 3 games in the WL (one being the win against Bisu, the others were losses). But he's got potential, and made it to the Ro4 before being stomped by Jaedong.
Movie's had a place in CJ's lineup for a while now, rotating with Much and occasionally nbs, while CJ goes mostly double-Zerg. His record's not that impressive, but he's played decently and showed potential. Maybe not Ro4 material - but that's why they play the game, that "maybe".
nah, im as a zerg player am usually not too interested in other mu, but because of this early cheese forced early actions its quite entertaining even for me
a zealot bomb kills the tank in fantasys natural and the bunker goes down from heavy goon fire. fantasy has another tank sieged at the back. movie decides to back off
quite a few probes get caught in a maynard and vults sneak into movies main. another shuttle drops a zealot at fantasys 3 which disrupts mining dfor a bit. Now a goon is dropped but doesnt do much
arbiter is out and movies 4th is under siege. vultures are everywhere trying to pick off probes. hes losing quite a bit. fantasy needs a 4th soon probably
he has obs. just not very many. Fantasy might lose this since he doesnt actually have an army to fight back with. just a shitload of vultures harrassing
more probes maynarding walk straight into a pack of vultures and a lot of them die. fantasy has his 4th but a goon is harassing it. most of the action is movie trying to defend from all over the place. a siege tank saves fantasys 4th
the recall forces fantasy to lift his 3rd. soon units start to clean up the mess. fantasy has a contain on movies 5th but it got cleaned up as well. movie appears to have a slight advantage. another arbiter recalls on fantasys 4th. it is forced to liftoff as well but is killed before it runs.
EMP catches an arbiter attacking and it is destroyed quickly movie is trying to push fantasys front but is forced to retreat. movie has an army advantage now
fantasy sees an arbiter running into his base which recalls on a bunch of mines and bearly does much damage. fantasy is pushing for movies 5th at 1 o clock
Movie might well lose control of his main base here. Natural is already broken. Harassing is fine, but there is a huge Terran blob looking to take out all his expansions.
Move sighs. He has gathered one (last?) army. But fantasy appears to be everywhere now. Amazing multitask by both players still. Movie can resume mining from his last income base at top left. But fantasy is making his move now. Perfect EMP on both arbiters. Vessel dies. Vultures harass that mineral line at top left, Movie without income again. Movie pushing into fantasy's tanks, he doesnt have any vultures!!!
Holy f***, Movie really made those last units count. But it looks like he is broke and broken now. Many vultures enter his main base and will mine up all the gateways. No line of defense left, save a single arbiter.
Lets see if I got the game right.. Movie proxies dark templars which fantasy deflects.. then fantasy lets his vultures wreak havoc..which leaves him with no tanks in sight. then movie decides to skip obs and straight to arbs.. then movie recalls into arbiters.. then movie pushes fantasy back.. then fantasy, out of no where, manages to macro tanks and now has map control.
Arbiters of death (tm) snipe yet another Vessel. They kill a tank at the right hand min only where fantasy is mining. Movie must be at about 20 supply?
lol, stasis on three goliaths who try to kill the arbiter.
On June 18 2009 22:04 Grobyc wrote: fantasy sends just over a half dozen vults to harass movies remaining mining expos. movies smaller army is doing huge damage and takes out movies 5th.
If Fantasy didn't EMP perfectly every time, Movie would have had it I think. Movie was really impressive but Fantasy is insane. Now that school is out I think I should watch him more... I hope Flash does well in these leagues so my love is not split forcefully!
fantasy is mining a very small amount on his 4th expo but nothing other than that. movie is trying to harass with his few remaining units: a set of arbiters
GG, I hate movie for his dual cheese, but that PvT was friggin impressive, he played really well. I liked it. Great game. I really want JD to win this group though .
On June 18 2009 22:04 Grobyc wrote: fantasy sends just over a half dozen vults to harass movies remaining mining expos. movies smaller army is doing huge damage and takes out movies 5th.
wat?
hmm I guess it wasn't that small, but with proper positioning and sieged tanks fantasy could have won that battle.
On June 18 2009 22:06 keV. wrote: I like the "MOVIE NEEDS TO LEAVE ALREADY" comments when fantasy is mined out...
cause fantasy is able to mine still cause he has map control while movies only mining base was shut down and hes contained with no units and no probes
He was distance mining and fantasy had no AA. I'm not saying he could've turned it around instantly, but from his point of view, there was no convincing evidence that it was an auto game over.
This was by far the best game of today, i cant belive how well movie played. Sad that it wasent enough though, he really deserved to win but fantasy was just a little too good with his EMP.
If fantasy hadent emp'ed as well as he did, movie would have stomped much sooner.
On June 18 2009 22:08 NeoSynod wrote: After that good game I can't believe people are still talking shit on movie.
Haha, it's a lot of people who are pissed off that Movie raped Jaedong. Notice how all of the people shitting on Movie are already looking forward to Jaedong raping him in the Losers Final, as if it were a forgone conclusion already.
I will die of a heart attack from laughing if Movie beats JD again (cheese or otherwise) and eliminates him from the MSL.
Jaedong fans be careful what you wish for. I don't know how many times this needs to be said but it's not like Movie got lucky and beat Jaedong once, he's THREE AND TWO lifetime against him now.
Of course Jaedong is the (big) favorite but after watching Movie play with balls of steel and almost take down Jaedong and Fantasy in order, he deserves a little respect. Leta isn't exactly a pushover by any means either, JD has a tough path to get into MSL round of 16 for the first time since TWO seasons ago....
and i can't believe that jd was raped by movie... great game by movie though, too bad for him cause fantasy played better --- yey for my liquibet... fantasy gave me the only LB point i have for today.
On June 18 2009 22:10 GTR wrote: if movie handled his arbiters better, he would have won, no doubt about it.
I agree, except Fantasy's vessel usage was so incredible. I think the same would have happened if Fantasy missed a couple or three critical EMP's, but he didn't.
god fucking damn movie is sick, i got a shitload respect for that guy after that game that was WILD
he plays PvT like Bisu plays PvZ, and it's fucking fortunate that Fantasy decided to give back as hard as he got it with vultures and dropships cuz we got to see one of the better games in recent months.
i am SO GODDAMNED IMPRESSED by both of these players after that game oh my god
Scaramanga says: i dont understand Scaramanga says: whats so great about fantasy Razer|FakeSteve says: then you're dumb Scaramanga says: i dont see anything special
On June 18 2009 22:06 keV. wrote: I like the "MOVIE NEEDS TO LEAVE ALREADY" comments when fantasy is mined out...
cause fantasy is able to mine still cause he has map control while movies only mining base was shut down and hes contained with no units and no probes
He was distance mining and fantasy had no AA. I'm not saying he could've turned it around instantly, but from his point of view, there was no convincing evidence that it was an auto game over.
umm he had plenty of vults left a tank or two. and several scvs long mining and your saying that 2 arbs can beat that??? WTF????
On June 18 2009 22:15 puLs.ReADy wrote: does jaedong has any chances now ?
I'd say Jaedong is 75% to beat Leta and 80% to beat Movie so 60% to advance. Leta I'd give a 60% chance to beat Movie (ordinarily I'd say 50% but Movie will probably prepare more for JD) so that puts him at 15%, and Movie is then at 25%.
Totally arbitrary and meaningless numbers, of course =P
But it's really Jaedongs fault for defending poorly. Mass hydras was definitely the counter, but he should've gotten a few sunks to buy time for a critical mass of hydras to build up (and possibly upgrades).
I think jaedong was right not to sunken up, because if he put sunkens at his nat, movie would attack his third instead. problem was jaedong had too much confidence in his defence and should've just switched over to speedlings or mutalings immediately after scouting the 4 or 5 gates making goons.
On June 18 2009 22:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: stupendous game
god fucking damn movie is sick, i got a shitload respect for that guy after that game that was WILD
he plays PvT like Bisu plays PvZ, and it's fucking fortunate that Fantasy decided to give back as hard as he got it with vultures and dropships cuz we got to see one of the better games in recent months.
i am SO GODDAMNED IMPRESSED by both of these players after that game oh my god
Scaramanga says: i dont understand Scaramanga says: whats so great about fantasy Razer|FakeSteve says: then you're dumb Scaramanga says: i dont see anything special
^^^^^^lol everyone tell scaramanga how dumb he is
he's just a sad and stubborn flash fanboi, who doesn't want to accept that other terrans might be about as good (+ more entertaining)
Stupid news post that said Leta was the favorite... Leta might get the edge in PL, but give me break, fantasy is in starleague mode, and so is Leta and that should tell you all you need to know.
On June 18 2009 22:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: stupendous game
god fucking damn movie is sick, i got a shitload respect for that guy after that game that was WILD
he plays PvT like Bisu plays PvZ, and it's fucking fortunate that Fantasy decided to give back as hard as he got it with vultures and dropships cuz we got to see one of the better games in recent months.
i am SO GODDAMNED IMPRESSED by both of these players after that game oh my god
Scaramanga says: i dont understand Scaramanga says: whats so great about fantasy Razer|FakeSteve says: then you're dumb Scaramanga says: i dont see anything special
^^^^^^lol everyone tell scaramanga how dumb he is
he's just a sad and stubborn flash fanboi, who doesn't want to accept that other terrans might be about as good (+ more entertaining)
On June 18 2009 22:12 darktreb wrote: Jaedong fans be careful what you wish for. I don't know how many times this needs to be said but it's not like Movie got lucky and beat Jaedong once, he's THREE AND TWO lifetime against him now.
Of course Jaedong is the (big) favorite but after watching Movie play with balls of steel and almost take down Jaedong and Fantasy in order, he deserves a little respect. Leta isn't exactly a pushover by any means either, JD has a tough path to get into MSL round of 16 for the first time since TWO seasons ago....
No I don't think JD has a hard time getting into MSL round 16. Movie just went 5 gate all-in timing cheese that happened to be quite unique to throw Jaedong off guard. Movie didn't get lucky, cheese works every once in a while to every player so its no surprise there.
On June 19 2009 02:15 Ota Solgryn wrote: Ive said it before and I'll say it again..
Jaedong does this all the time. Looses first game, then wins the next do or die games. Its part of his ritual.
Ye lets hope he does it this time aswell, no point watching MSL without Jaedong gotta hand it to Movie tho, he played fine in both games, was hoping for him to advance after he won JD ;D
It seems to me that Movie lacks confidence in his straight up play since he went for unorthodox builds in both games. But I don't know why, his straight up game is really good. Once he clicks and consistently brings his play to somewhere around where he played last night (no more games like that vs Killer, plz), CJ will be unstoppable.
On June 18 2009 18:12 Kuja900 wrote: Jaedong better beat movie I really really REALLY want to see jaedong v leta, jaedong v fantasy would be good to however.
Looks like you get too see your jd v leta, and happy birthday konadora.
Wow. This is one of the most exciting TvZs I can remember watching in a long long time. Very agressive play and amazing defence. Can Nada's agressive strategies overcome Iris' suddenly fearsome macro?
Leta was controlling the whole game, 7 full dropships he lost to stupid mistake costed him the game, unfortunately. Same as Kal vs July game #3 iirc when Kal lost 2 shuttles with reavers
Uncharacteristically stubborn play from JD. This map is very P>Z though so maybe JD had very few successful builds in practice and he just got a little stuck.
Movie fought like hell against fantasy, and he came so close, he just barely couldn't break fantasy. I dk why that game wasn't recommended, the end was pretty crazy with both players starving each other out/fantasy having basically no gas for half the game, etc.
Watching those games, you can tell Movie is going to be a household name sooner than later.
Absolutely impossible to talk shit about Movie after those two games, even the loss was brilliantly played, there is no way Jaedong v Fantasy could be that entertaining. Those were literally two of the ballsiest games I have ever seen and he pulled some impressive shit.
Awesome, entertaining games. Jaedong unquestionably deserved to lose for not taking movie's build seriously.
On June 19 2009 07:52 Vasoline73 wrote: So glad I didn't stay up to watch "Fantasy v Jaedong" lol.
you missed a much much better game than that
On June 19 2009 03:04 Avidkeystamper wrote: It seems to me that Movie lacks confidence in his straight up play since he went for unorthodox builds in both games. But I don't know why, his straight up game is really good. Once he clicks and consistently brings his play to somewhere around where he played last night (no more games like that vs Killer, plz), CJ will be unstoppable.
Even though his builds were unorthodox, Movie played with total confidence there. His micro was spot-on (especially against JD) and he didn't really cheese rush either time - he just knew what he wanted to use for an aggressive opener and executed near-perfectly both times. Those games were a goddamn joy to watch and I'll take all the unorthodox builds in the world to see a player that ballsy and aggressive, with good transitions and mid/lategame play to boot.
Movie's build vs Jaedong was exceptional. The timing is just perfect and the concept so bizarre that you wouldn't think of it at all. Who cares whatever confidence he has; when you have builds that just win like that you do them.
The Outsider game wasn't as good as it looked though, at least from his part. He made major mistakes in suiciding his army into Fantasy's choke, refusing to hang his arbiters back and actually get off stasises, and not building templars when he was trading armies for expansions. Some things he did, particularly using a shuttle + that gateway at 3 to permanently shutdown/harass Fantasy's 3 min expo was really nice. But honestly that game felt more like Fantasy vs Outsider than anything. What a terrible map.
On the other hand wow Fantasy is good at TvP. Beastly builds, exceptional timing and harass, great decision making. I'm running out of words to describe him but his play is so fluid, shifting between harass and economical focus.
Wow. This is one of the most exciting TvZs I can remember watching in a long long time. Very agressive play and amazing defence. Can Nada's agressive strategies overcome Iris' suddenly fearsome macro?
Okay, I just watched Jaedong vs Movie and here's my thoughts:
Jaedong went for a very standard build, but his greatest fault here lies in not getting speed upgrade for lings. Also, Movie prepared a very timing-precise build. If you notice the timing when Movie starts to push out with his small 3 goon 1 zealot army, Jaedong was just about to finish his 4th and 5th hatcheries. That meant that was like, 30 seconds before his macro would have kicked in, and at least one of the hydra upgrades would have been done. Basically, Movie attacked Jaedong's Achilles' Heel, the small timing window where Jaedong was on the verge of having his macro explode and hydras flood out. Jaedong didn't get any sunkens, because 1) getting sunkens would mean his economy will be hurt (less drones, and he can't pump drones because he needed hydras/lings more) and 2) sunkens die very fast to dragoons. Also, Movie kept pumping probes from his two nexuses, which made Jaedong think that Movie wasn't really focusing on army, and instead was going for a standard build. This thinking led Jaedong not to get speed ling upgrades, and by the time speed upgrade was done, Movie had already gathered a critical mass of dragoons and had teched to templar archives, thus getting DTs and archon reinforcements later on and taking the game.
On June 19 2009 14:55 tedster wrote: Watching those games, you can tell Movie is going to be a household name sooner than later.
Absolutely impossible to talk shit about Movie after those two games, even the loss was brilliantly played, there is no way Jaedong v Fantasy could be that entertaining. Those were literally two of the ballsiest games I have ever seen and he pulled some impressive shit.
Am I one of the only ones that didn't think Movie played all that well against Fantasy?
I mean he harassed on a map that pretty much does it for the protoss itself so that wasn't really so amazing. After the first recalls he was never able to get another arbiter spell off period. Lots of sloppy army movements and the like.
On June 19 2009 14:55 tedster wrote: Watching those games, you can tell Movie is going to be a household name sooner than later.
Absolutely impossible to talk shit about Movie after those two games, even the loss was brilliantly played, there is no way Jaedong v Fantasy could be that entertaining. Those were literally two of the ballsiest games I have ever seen and he pulled some impressive shit.
Am I one of the only ones that didn't think Movie played all that well against Fantasy?
I mean he harassed on a map that pretty much does it for the protoss itself so that wasn't really so amazing. After the first recalls he was never able to get another arbiter spell off period. Lots of sloppy army movements and the like.
No, you ain't the only one, the win against Jaedong was nice but against Fantasy there were quite a lot of sloppy moves like you said.
On June 18 2009 21:27 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: starcraft for me is about good starcraft & its more likely that jaedong and fantasy will play good starcraft in a BoX than movie
movie is cool but he'd get rolled by half this MSL roster in a best of 5, whereas fantasy will show us something incredible several times through his MSL run, as will the rest of the top tier players in this MSL
all-ins like that are neat, but they make for a really shitty league if that's all that happens. can you honestly say that game was better than fantasy vs leta just now?
Movie will probably not win the MSL, but it is great that he won this match. Games like this shows that strategy still overcomes mechanics. Starcraft has been for a while, more like an action game. Saw Jaedong without ling speed, Movie did an excellent midgame timing rush. Beautiful play.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/smilee80/banner.jpg)
NaDa < Byzantium 3 > 
Horang2 < Carthage 3 > 
Jaedong < Heartbreak Ridge > 
would be just my luck.
