EffOrt has so much promise but he can't get out of either preliminary ... sKyHigh and Memory still being alive just doesn't seem as good as EffOrt getting out of his group.
Kwanro taken out in the first round??? Things aren't looking promising for sAviOr at this rate. On a separate note type-b is going to tear apart Up and the winner of Last/Hery.
UpMagiC, I bet for you against Jaedong and you let him win for some reason. You even let him win 3-0, again for some unknown reason. THIS OSL IS YOURS, TAKE IT MY SON.
On December 12 2008 12:17 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: UpMagiC, I bet for you against Jaedong and you let him win for some reason. You even let him win 3-0, again for some unknown reason. THIS OSL IS YOURS, TAKE IT MY SON.
At least Idra is qualifying for Offline prelims. Always a good sign. And the fact that he's qualifying for offline prelims means that he's got an ok shot of playing in Proleague.
On December 12 2008 12:46 thunk wrote: At least Idra is qualifying for Offline prelims. Always a good sign. And the fact that he's qualifying for offline prelims means that he's got an ok shot of playing in Proleague.
Hate to break it to you but any licensed progamer that's on a team is automatically qualified for the prelims. His first win outside of practice sessions is a solid first step though imo.
On December 12 2008 12:46 thunk wrote: At least Idra is qualifying for Offline prelims. Always a good sign. And the fact that he's qualifying for offline prelims means that he's got an ok shot of playing in Proleague.
On December 12 2008 12:46 thunk wrote: At least Idra is qualifying for Offline prelims. Always a good sign. And the fact that he's qualifying for offline prelims means that he's got an ok shot of playing in Proleague.
Hate to break it to you but any licensed progamer that's on a team is automatically qualified for the prelims. His first win outside of practice sessions is a solid first step though imo.
On December 12 2008 12:46 thunk wrote: At least Idra is qualifying for Offline prelims. Always a good sign. And the fact that he's qualifying for offline prelims means that he's got an ok shot of playing in Proleague.
Hate to break it to you but any licensed progamer that's on a team is automatically qualified for the prelims. His first win outside of practice sessions is a solid first step though imo.
*cough 1-2 neel[fou] cough*
If you want to get technical that win didn't count in KeSPA's books, but you got me I guess.
Only one left that i was rooting for is iloveoov with Xellos and idrA out. ;( Is their a cast of these games? Well, prob not. I guess thats what offline means eh?
On December 12 2008 13:02 Amnesty wrote: Only one left that i was rooting for is iloveoov with Xellos and idrA out. ;( Is their a cast of these games? Well, prob not. I guess thats what offline means eh?
On December 12 2008 13:02 Amnesty wrote: Only one left that i was rooting for is iloveoov with Xellos and idrA out. ;( Is their a cast of these games? Well, prob not. I guess thats what offline means eh?
On December 12 2008 13:21 KnightOfNi wrote: EDIT: And Tazza? Wow didn't he just get dropped to the B team of OGN? Guess his beating of Bisu wasn't a fluke after all...
To be fair he wasn't given too much of a chance in the first place. Maybe these results will persuade the OGN coaches to put him back on the roster again.
On December 12 2008 12:46 thunk wrote: At least Idra is qualifying for Offline prelims. Always a good sign. And the fact that he's qualifying for offline prelims means that he's got an ok shot of playing in Proleague.
Hate to break it to you but any licensed progamer that's on a team is automatically qualified for the prelims. His first win outside of practice sessions is a solid first step though imo.
*cough 1-2 neel[fou] cough*
If you want to get technical that win didn't count in KeSPA's books, but you got me I guess.
Oh shit, really? *sigh*
If the win didn't count neither did the losses then.
On December 12 2008 12:46 thunk wrote: At least Idra is qualifying for Offline prelims. Always a good sign. And the fact that he's qualifying for offline prelims means that he's got an ok shot of playing in Proleague.
Hate to break it to you but any licensed progamer that's on a team is automatically qualified for the prelims. His first win outside of practice sessions is a solid first step though imo.
*cough 1-2 neel[fou] cough*
If you want to get technical that win didn't count in KeSPA's books, but you got me I guess.
Oh shit, really? *sigh*
If the win didn't count neither did the losses then.
pandemik was talking about Idra's win in GOM. Idra's win in this tournament definitely counts.
Man fomos isn't even loading for me... anyone else got somewhere that the results are being posted more or less live? (without me having to open up another window of this thread)
OK. Just saw loads of posts about Idra here so thought it was him.
yaoyuan doesn't load anything just a white screen, even though I got tvants installed and daum player is just super laggy, it always worked fine but seems they made some shitty update.
On December 12 2008 12:46 thunk wrote: At least Idra is qualifying for Offline prelims. Always a good sign. And the fact that he's qualifying for offline prelims means that he's got an ok shot of playing in Proleague.
Hate to break it to you but any licensed progamer that's on a team is automatically qualified for the prelims. His first win outside of practice sessions is a solid first step though imo.
*cough 1-2 neel[fou] cough*
If you want to get technical that win didn't count in KeSPA's books, but you got me I guess.
Oh shit, really? *sigh*
If the win didn't count neither did the losses then.
pandemik was talking about Idra's win in GOM. Idra's win in this tournament definitely counts.
Doesn't Idra's win in GOM count too b/c this season of GOM is endorsed by KeSPA. Or does it not because they are only counting wins into the round of 32?
Fast dropship for T landing in main outside of vision but somehow Jaedong finds it and rapes all marines with lings and hydras. One more drop melting lings but lurker is there no drones killed. Loses three drones dropship army is wiped out. Z still on 2 base and T 1, Jaedong teching to hive.
T is koala btw. Er he just gg:ed didn't want to play one base it seems.
Commentators saying how s2 been practising vs good Terrans, especially mech build. However Nada getting M&M with vessel I suppose. 3 hatch mutas coming in.
god im sick of having to watch this while its so damn laggy. we need good quality streams. theres a big audience just dying for SC and only GOM seems interested.
On December 12 2008 15:37 rushz0rz wrote: god im sick of having to watch this while its so damn laggy. we need good quality streams. theres a big audience just dying for SC and only GOM seems interested.
well i mean it makes sense, why would korean advertisers want to market korean commercials to foreigners
T takes down 12 once again and goes for 3. Er more medics than marines attacking though (around 5) = fail. T got mines out lings ultras running through raping marines and vessels with scourge T main and natural is depleted.
T is doing a Boxer vs Chojja with 3 dropships but not enough marines to kill anything but an extractor and few drones Nada has to lift 5 cause of one 5/2 ultra.
I swear to god if nal_keke kicks jaedong off and he drops at RO36 Im gonna be fucking pissed If you're going to kick jaedong off, get your ass atleast to RO16
i mean when these is about a 60% win rate in the proleague, and with all the practice some of these people get, can we be surprised that about 1/3 of the top players get knocked out here
Wow, This could be Horang2's breakout season. He's unlike a lot of the new Proleague hitters, he gets into the Starleagues, but has no PL appearances. Very young.
I hope ggaemo losses painfully i hope he gets one of his drones mind controlled, and then gets wiped out by a zerg army backed up by 5 control groups worth of scouts
and i don't care if that means one more toss in the next round
On December 12 2008 16:35 Avidkeystamper wrote: Wow, This could be Horang2's breakout season. He's unlike a lot of the new Proleague hitters, he gets into the Starleagues, but has no PL appearances. Very young.
The results I read had Horang losing to Shine[Kal] in the finals of his group?
On December 12 2008 16:41 Avidkeystamper wrote: What time is it in Austrailia?
strange question, but here in sydney is 6:47pm.
on topic, so many upsets all over the place. surprisingly jaedong got through, this osl should be a bit more fun to follow now. still, savior < gaemo?! (cries)
On December 12 2008 16:41 Avidkeystamper wrote: What time is it in Austrailia?
strange question, but here in sydney is 6:47pm.
on topic, so many upsets all over the place. surprisingly jaedong got through, this osl should be a bit more fun to follow now. still, savior < gaemo?! (cries)
I was wondering if Pachi was sleeping or something. Not that I'm complaining, Jaedong won!
i got alot of money riding on stephan, he just knows when those heads are coming on the other hand, his opponent jared is quite gifted in telling when its not heads
On December 12 2008 17:00 []p4NDemik[] wrote: count me out for translating the evening games. I'll keep updating until the Afternoon games are over though.
2009 is coming! Quickly, all progamers must take refuge in an OSL shelter where they will be safe from any type of destruction coming from some guy named sAviOr!
On December 12 2008 17:15 soudo wrote: 2009 is coming! Quickly, all progamers must take refuge in an OSL shelter where they will be safe from any type of destruction coming from some guy named sAviOr!
The dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief.
On December 12 2008 17:15 soudo wrote: 2009 is coming! Quickly, all progamers must take refuge in an OSL shelter where they will be safe from any type of destruction coming from some guy named sAviOr!
The dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief.
On December 12 2008 17:15 soudo wrote: 2009 is coming! Quickly, all progamers must take refuge in an OSL shelter where they will be safe from any type of destruction coming from some guy named sAviOr!
The dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief.
Hm... Is STX going to have it's whole monster PL-Lineup in the next round? (Hwasin, Kal, July allready there, Calm should be able to qualify... Not even talking about *lesser* known players that have chances...) :D. Take this CJ
FBH lost his entire main, with only 4 tanks and handful of marines left trying to break into the zergs nat. The zerg puts down a swarm and fbh is forced to retreat
I really liked that defense from oov, if I had been in that situation (even with korean micro) I would probably have panicked and try to rush for the vessels and would've had too few mnm and tank to save myself from the continued pressure.
Stream working really well, can't believe I slept till this late. Feel sorry for Idra, but at least he managed to win a game and wasn't it predicted it would take over a year before he could go and defeat the other pro's?
On December 12 2008 19:10 ShloobeR wrote: whyyy effort
the guy has soo much potential, why does he choke > : (
I believe he plays on the same level as jaedong. I'm a huge jd fan and I think efforts play is almost identical but currently alot more fresh. I haven't seen him lose in a while where it wasn't a tooth and nail type of battle. I think given 4-6 more months even a top form jaedong might be playing beneath him, he's just that sick.
LOL, firebathero and jangbi got it handed to them, gg too bad for Iris aswel as savior, but look at how good these skt1 zergs did, s2 qualified and hyuk lost final game,
On December 12 2008 19:10 ShloobeR wrote: whyyy effort
the guy has soo much potential, why does he choke > : (
I believe he plays on the same level as jaedong. I'm a huge jd fan and I think efforts play is almost identical but currently alot more fresh. I haven't seen him lose in a while where it wasn't a tooth and nail type of battle. I think given 4-6 more months even a top form jaedong might be playing beneath him, he's just that sick.
hes much more savioresque than jaedong i think he relies more on intelligent play and overall game management than the pure brute force mechanics approach of jaedong. (not that jaedong isnt intelligent, you have to be at that level, just different focuses)
On December 12 2008 19:26 IdrA wrote: no i played decently mechanically but made bad decisions, which doesnt work out well vs cheesy p's
Unlucky bud! You back at the CJ house now analyzing the replays?
Decisions comes with experiene! Keep on practising, let's see how good you are in the neat future! Hopefully you'll be able to play in the minor leagues!
yo is a respectful ending just another way of saying gg
justin actually kinda impressed me that game. he got build raped but played a smart style and did the best he could with the situation, even if his mechanics werent perfect. and to be fair no one ever goes 2 gate obs exp on medusa so the build itself was a pretty good idea too.
On December 12 2008 19:54 IdrA wrote: yo is a respectful ending just another way of saying gg
justin actually kinda impressed me that game. he got build raped but played a smart style and did the best he could with the situation, even if his mechanics werent perfect. and to be fair no one ever goes 2 gate obs exp on medusa so the build itself was a pretty good idea too.
I completely agree with this, justin showcased uncharacteristic smart play - which was really effective on a smart map like medusa
On December 12 2008 19:54 IdrA wrote: yo is a respectful ending just another way of saying gg
justin actually kinda impressed me that game. he got build raped but played a smart style and did the best he could with the situation, even if his mechanics werent perfect. and to be fair no one ever goes 2 gate obs exp on medusa so the build itself was a pretty good idea too.
I completely agree with this, justin showcased uncharacteristic smart play - which was really effective on a smart map like medusa
On December 12 2008 20:03 MooiSh wrote: Anyone have any updates on the iloveoov final?
there would probably be an update soon by the ogn channel because they can't cover all the matches, so results should show up after each or a few games (this is how they did it when i saw the incruit qualifiers)
NICE So Yellow > Orion I assume? And both Yellow and Luxury look so funny when they game. They look like they want to game someone (extremely serious face )
My friends and I laughed when we saw his VOD a week ago ^_^
pusan doesn't deserve to lose to magma sure magma's good and all - in fact i love his macro style! but really, he's already into the MSL so stay the fuck away fromt he OSL thnx
On December 12 2008 20:27 Plexa wrote: pusan doesn't deserve to lose to magma sure magma's good and all - in fact i love his macro style! but really, he's already into the MSL so stay the fuck away fromt he OSL thnx
group Q - iloveoov vs ? (finals) group R - go.go vs hyvaa group S - magma vs pusan group T - hyun advances group U - canata vs hiya group V - geumchi vs mujuk group W - yellow[arnc] vs orion, piano vs by.great group X - propose vs ? (finals)
It was almost like oov felt safe with his turrets and then discovered that by.hero's mutas eat them for breakfast. "the zergs back at the house never do that" comes to mind.
On December 12 2008 21:06 ShloobeR wrote: His vultures were... awful to be honest.
he gained almost nothing from them
if he would have followed it up with an immediate tank, he would have been brilliant, but he just sat outside his base... with 3 vultures.... then switched it up to m&m AND tried to expo ?
On December 12 2008 21:06 ShloobeR wrote: His vultures were... awful to be honest.
he gained almost nothing from them
if he would have followed it up with an immediate tank, he would have been brilliant, but he just sat outside his base... with 3 vultures.... then switched it up to m&m AND tried to expo ?
still scratching my head on this
yes, potentially it was very strong, but he sat there attacking the hatchery and then he actually lost them to 8 lings or so
These offlines are such a disappointment overall. 910 instead of FBH. BestGod and Tester instead of Jangbi and Pusan. Who seriously think that Bestgod or 910 are going to accomplish anything? I bet they will end up in a group with Rock or Backho.
On December 12 2008 21:06 ShloobeR wrote: His vultures were... awful to be honest.
he gained almost nothing from them
his vults did some damage and his following rine push.
it made hero invest in 5 sunks, stop mining for a while, he was only allowed to mine 3 mineral patches for a good 3 minutes or so.
i thought oov's build was good, but his rine v muta micro was poor and turret placement
hero was soo behind early game, but still came bk and raped :O
strange!
i understand that, im just totaly confused when after his vultures were killed, he retreated his rines back to his base, then he scaned the zerg, and saw the spire done and a lot of eggs (that he had to know where inc mutas) morphing.. and he made the decision to expand ? it just didn't make any sense.
On December 12 2008 21:11 Fwmeh wrote: These offlines are such a disappointment overall. 910 instead of FBH. BestGod and Tester instead of Jangbi and Pusan. Who seriously think that Bestgod or 910 are going to accomplish anything? I bet they will end up in a group with Rock or Backho.
Yeah, I mean why even have the qualifiers? Why not just put the top 36 in Kespa into the OSL? Come on. It's always good to have new blood.
On December 12 2008 21:06 ShloobeR wrote: His vultures were... awful to be honest.
he gained almost nothing from them
his vults did some damage and his following rine push.
it made hero invest in 5 sunks, stop mining for a while, he was only allowed to mine 3 mineral patches for a good 3 minutes or so.
i thought oov's build was good, but his rine v muta micro was poor and turret placement
hero was soo behind early game, but still came bk and raped :O
strange!
i understand that, im just totaly confused when after his vultures were killed, he retreated his rines back to his base, then he scaned the zerg, and saw the spire done and a lot of eggs (that he had to know where inc mutas) morphing.. and he made the decision to expand ? it just didn't make any sense.
Oov wasn't sure if he was going muta or lurk, those 3 hydras tricked him i think, not sure though. 3 rax was too much I agree as he never attempted to break the sunken line once!
I think he should of expod after the vult harass, not sure.
The image separates out the two stages in the OSL rnd 2
okay, you're gona have to break this down for me. from what i understand they've got 24 groups, and they set them into 8 (or 9man) brackets, and 1 player comes out from each group, so you've got 24 players advancing from these offline qualifiers, into...
now according to that image, the only thing i see 24 players going striaght into is that "Best of 3 Starleague Round 1 Qualifier Stage" where 12 will advance and 12 will lose, and fall back into the offline qualifiers.
The image separates out the two stages in the OSL rnd 2
okay, you're gona have to break this down for me. from what i understand they've got 24 groups, and they set them into 8 (or 9man) brackets, and 1 player comes out from each group, so you've got 24 players advancing from these offline qualifiers, into...
now according to that image, the only thing i see 24 players going striaght into is that "Best of 3 Starleague Round 1 Qualifier Stage" where 12 will advance and 12 will lose, and fall back into the offline qualifiers.
What happens is the first round there are the two players from the offlines and then the winner of that faces the seeded player from last time, winner of that gets into the ro16
The image separates out the two stages in the OSL rnd 2
okay, you're gona have to break this down for me. from what i understand they've got 24 groups, and they set them into 8 (or 9man) brackets, and 1 player comes out from each group, so you've got 24 players advancing from these offline qualifiers, into...
now according to that image, the only thing i see 24 players going striaght into is that "Best of 3 Starleague Round 1 Qualifier Stage" where 12 will advance and 12 will lose, and fall back into the offline qualifiers.
i think all of the off-line qualifiers play each other so half get eliminated. then the winners play the 12 from the last osl. i think the difference between this year and last year is that there is a break between the offline vs offline game and the offline winner vs osl incumbent.
The image separates out the two stages in the OSL rnd 2
okay, you're gona have to break this down for me. from what i understand they've got 24 groups, and they set them into 8 (or 9man) brackets, and 1 player comes out from each group, so you've got 24 players advancing from these offline qualifiers, into...
now according to that image, the only thing i see 24 players going striaght into is that "Best of 3 Starleague Round 1 Qualifier Stage" where 12 will advance and 12 will lose, and fall back into the offline qualifiers.
What happens is the first round there are the two players from the offlines and then the winner of that faces the seeded player from last time, winner of that gets into the ro16
ahhhhhh thats right i get it, so put the 4 top seeded players aren't put into that right ? just the 5th-16th players ? so really its the 24offlines+12previous qualifiers= ro36. and it has nothing to do with the top 4 seeds
The image separates out the two stages in the OSL rnd 2
okay, you're gona have to break this down for me. from what i understand they've got 24 groups, and they set them into 8 (or 9man) brackets, and 1 player comes out from each group, so you've got 24 players advancing from these offline qualifiers, into...
now according to that image, the only thing i see 24 players going striaght into is that "Best of 3 Starleague Round 1 Qualifier Stage" where 12 will advance and 12 will lose, and fall back into the offline qualifiers.
What happens is the first round there are the two players from the offlines and then the winner of that faces the seeded player from last time, winner of that gets into the ro16
ahhhhhh thats right i get it, so put the 4 top seeded players aren't put into that right ? just the 5th-16th players ? so really its the 24offlines+12previous qualifiers= ro36. and it has nothing to do with the top 4 seeds
yeah pretty much that, who won outta hydra and the other guy
On December 12 2008 21:46 Disarray wrote: btw, anyone else notice this widescreen action going on ? is it ACTUALY starcraft in widescreen ? or is it just stretched out ? it seems legit..
On December 12 2008 21:46 Camlito wrote: Pusan won so ofcourse it is for plexa .
And that' why Canata vs Pusan is one of my favorite games of all time right?
The one on Rush Hour in ODT right ? I remember that one. It was that, and the fact that Cloud won Stork on the same map in the same ODT that made me realize theres something really strange with pro-level TvP on Rush Hour. I dont even think it's imbalanced, but the TvP record on the map says otherwise.
So many "top seeds in groups" didn't make it! FBH, free, pusan, lomo, iris, nada, jangbi, savior, sangho -_-, rumble, canata, forgg, calm - wow that's a lot. But I guess we'll be able to see new, younger players... so it's maybe ok :D
haha, 910 making a visit to televised games once again...who woulda thought, out of that group?
Poor keke...almost
Jangbi fail
FBH fail <333 (HoeJJa > LJD + sAvior combined, yes? Next big zerg, last remnant of the Overmind's forces in the gomtv classic S2 [facing Bisu lol] etc.?)
Epic WTF @ free, seeing his group I thought that was a given...
sAvior
Iloveoov almost made it too, wow. That guy's still a beast, just wait some time.
Fuck you go.go, start to fail offlines already please
Pusan
Happy for YarnC, too.
Who the hell is Propose? That group was very weak anyway (after Calm totally failed to deliver [I think he was missing Tossgirl from the bench!] ,Flower's kinda off the radar lately and I call Bul_T's recent results a fluke ).
On December 12 2008 21:46 Camlito wrote: Pusan won so ofcourse it is for plexa .
And that' why Canata vs Pusan is one of my favorite games of all time right?
The one on Rush Hour in ODT right ? I remember that one. It was that, and the fact that Cloud won Stork on the same map in the same ODT that made me realize theres something really strange with pro-level TvP on Rush Hour. I dont even think it's imbalanced, but the TvP record on the map says otherwise.
it is terran favored, not nearly to the extent the record suggests though.
iirc alot of the losses were because protosses were double nexusing alot on it but hadnt really ironed out the build properly.
On December 12 2008 23:26 Naib wrote: Who the hell is Propose? That group was very weak anyway (after Calm totally failed to deliver [I think he was missing Tossgirl from the bench!] ,Flower's kinda off the radar lately and I call Bul_T's recent results a fluke ).
he's Miracle[fOu], the guy who played infernal in tl vs yg
On December 12 2008 23:26 Naib wrote: Who the hell is Propose? That group was very weak anyway (after Calm totally failed to deliver [I think he was missing Tossgirl from the bench!] ,Flower's kinda off the radar lately and I call Bul_T's recent results a fluke ).
he's Miracle[fOu], the guy who played infernal in tl vs yg
Oh ok, now I can place him. Did anyone notice that Killer = Baxter, the guy who got raped by Boxer's cute TvZ in the early rounds of GOM S2? He almost made it through as well!
On December 13 2008 02:14 Lebesgue wrote: Fuck yeah. Go HoeJJa!!! I have been impressed lately by this guy and now that he took down FBH I am even more impressed.
LOL. I awoke to a great surprise this morning. I can't believe HoeJJa eliminated FBH. I'm so happy he made it through. I've been impressed by a few of his ZvP games but I thought his ZvT wasn't that great (I've only seen two). I gotta read the LR. It's a real bummer though that Effort is out once again. ): I REALLY hope Magma makes it through, he's quickly becoming my new favourite zerg up and comers.
Where has Hoejja even come from anyway? I don't know how old he is, but he doesn't seem like a newcomer. He's still on the B-team on KTF and yet he's taken out Pure, Much, and FBH the last couple weeks.
Here's hoping he at least puts up a good fight against Bisu tomorrow.
Edit: I'm guessing, next chance they get, KTF will put him on the A-team—probably replacing Haran or maybe Violet.
HoeJJa has been around since late 2005. He tried to become pro the same time as Draco and Suncow were playing courage(they lost to YoonJoong, and Lomo in their respective groups) back in august 2006. I guess HoeJJa got his licence at that time since him and YoonJoong went to play in a chinese tournament along with other accomplished pros like Oov, Savior, ChoJJa later that fall.
On December 13 2008 03:03 tomatriedes wrote: FBH got eliminated!! By a Zerg!! Excellent job HoeJJa!
And nice work by MuJuK (who?) for eliminating fOrGG as well!
someone with a Lecaf insigna shouldnt write sg liek this
I don't have to like everyone on the team, especially when they're playing in the individual leagues. I'm a zerg fan first and foremost and fOrGG prevented Jaedong from winning that MSL.
On December 13 2008 14:53 StrikeFLOW wrote: I want jaedong to win it big.... but i'm scared.
Yeah, Jaedong has a respectable amount of medals for the amount of time he's been on the scene (more than Flash and Best :D) but he's also in the worst condition than those two as well. Zergs just aren't as stable. But I truly believe he has one more great run in him, no doubt.
On December 13 2008 14:53 StrikeFLOW wrote: I want jaedong to win it big.... but i'm scared.
Yeah, Jaedong has a respectable amount of medals for the amount of time he's been on the scene (more than Flash and Best :D) but he's also in the worst condition than those two as well. Zergs just aren't as stable. But I truly believe he has one more great run in him, no doubt.
Is there VODs anywhere? (of Jaedong)
please dont compare Flash with BeSt, it is very insulting for us KTF fans