EPTSnow played very well, great showing!
Snow loses to an exceptionally great Shine & totally shits the bed vs EffOrt:
PvZ is broken! Worst ASL
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D - Page 16
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Smorrie
Netherlands2949 Posts
Snow played very well, great showing! Snow loses to an exceptionally great Shine & totally shits the bed vs EffOrt: PvZ is broken! Worst ASL | ||
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Bonyth
Poland616 Posts
On September 16 2026 22:00 Smorrie wrote: Snow beats JD 2-0 & Hero 2-1 in the wildcard tournament to qualify: Snow played very well, great showing! Snow loses to an exceptionally great Shine & totally shits the bed vs EffOrt: PvZ is broken! Worst ASL xD I don't think anyone denies that Snow played poorly in the current ASL against zergs. His losses just happened when RO16 stage has ended and it turned out (for the first time in history?!) that there isn't a single representant in RO8 of one of the races. Frustration is directed at StarCraft in general, not Snow's performance. But probably u know that and just want to ridicule some people on this thread. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1304 Posts
On September 16 2026 22:00 Smorrie wrote: Snow beats JD 2-0 & Hero 2-1 in the wildcard tournament to qualify: Snow played very well, great showing! Snow loses to an exceptionally great Shine & totally shits the bed vs EffOrt: PvZ is broken! Worst ASL Ignore the ASL data. most people complain because according to Eloboard, which has hundreds if not almost a thousand games recorded on the current map pools, shows that protoss has below 45% winrate on almost all of the maps in the current pool vs Zerg. Except Aiolos. Maps seem particularly bad pvt. Backroom 440 P · T P37.0 % 63.0 %T P · Z P41.8 % 58.2 %Z T · Z T53.8 % 46.2 %Z Colorless Fate 415 P · T P53.7 % 46.3 %T P · Z P42.0 % 58.0 %Z T · Z T38.5 % 61.5 %Z Aeolus 459 P · T P44.0 % 56.0 %T P · Z P51.0 % 49.0 %Z T · Z T54.3 % 45.7 %Z Octagon 1,515 P · T P36.1 % 63.9 %T P · Z P48.2 % 51.8 %Z T · Z T51.6 % 48.4 %Z attitude 1,258 P · T P33.1 % 66.9 %T P · Z P35.8 % 64.2 %Z T · Z T50.3% 49.7 %Z Odyssey 905 P · T P46.4 % 53.6 %T P · Z P48.4 % 51.6 %Z T · Z T55.5 % 44.5 %Z knockout 2,369 P · T P48.4 % 51.6 % T P · Z P50.8 % 49.2 %Z T · Z T52.7 % 47.3 %Z Actually some of the maps are good for toss, but half the maps are terrible for toss vs both t and z. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3551 Posts
On September 16 2026 22:10 Bonyth wrote: xD I don't think anyone denies that Snow played poorly in the current ASL against zergs. His losses just happened when RO16 stage has ended and it turned out (for the first time in history?!) that there isn't a single representant in RO8 of one of the races. Frustration is directed at StarCraft in general, not Snow's performance. But probably u know that and just want to ridicule some people on this thread. Bonyth, in your esteemed opinion, what do you think is the main reason P is underperforming at the very top? Do you think perhaps it s about the wide variance in skillset required for each MU so that most P are proficient in only one or 2 of the 3 MU? Or that the race is somewhat slow to adapt and so the fast rotation of maps and playstyle from T/Z prevents P from catching up? Something else? Very interested in your views. And also @Eon, about yours on how yoh d think the openers should differ on the maps you named? | ||
c3rberUs
Japan11772 Posts
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Bonyth
Poland616 Posts
On September 16 2026 22:38 WGT-Baal wrote: Bonyth, in your esteemed opinion, what do you think is the main reason P is underperforming at the very top? Do you think perhaps it s about the wide variance in skillset required for each MU so that most P are proficient in only one or 2 of the 3 MU? Or that the race is somewhat slow to adapt and so the fast rotation of maps and playstyle from T/Z prevents P from catching up? Something else? Very interested in your views. And also @Eon, about yours on how yoh d think the openers should differ on the maps you named? Bear in mind I'm just a player that can +/- play the game, that doesn't make my input much more valuable than your average TL user. First things that pop in mind are: - in PvZ and PvT you are often pressured to deal damage in a given window. PvZ before hive tech, at the same time you cannot let zerg expand too freely (you could say zerg cannot let protoss do that as well, but it's nowhere near the pressure that is on P). In PvT you also want to either constantly trade with terran or engage terran before he maxes out. However at this point roles reverse and it's on T to limit protoss economy. - crippling abilities or ways to win easily. PvZ: dt drop? If u win as protoss, it's after a straightforward battle. ZvP: doom drop, simultanous lurker drops, 973, ling "all-in", muta-scourgue, 5 hatch hydra. PvT: reaver / dt / ht drop, late game carriers. TvP: vultures slipping through a hole, vulture drop, mines randomly dealing nuke damage, 3-5-7 tank pushes. From what I wrote it looks like PvT is more or less fine (allthough requires protoss to play very solid / perfect in defense). Chaotic thoughts, but StarCraft is not so simple to conclude it with just a couple of sentences. | ||
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Soft_General_5023
147 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States3197 Posts
On September 16 2026 22:00 Smorrie wrote: Snow beats JD 2-0 & Hero 2-1 in the wildcard tournament to qualify: Snow played very well, great showing! Snow loses to an exceptionally great Shine & totally shits the bed vs EffOrt: PvZ is broken! Worst ASL Why is it weird to think it's still exciting when a player wins despite an imbalanced matchup, but it's not exciting when the imbalance becomes so vast that even the exceptional players can't win anymore? | ||
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TMNT
3332 Posts
On September 17 2026 00:25 Bonyth wrote: Bear in mind I'm just a player that can +/- play the game, that doesn't make my input much more valuable than your average TL user. First things that pop in mind are: - in PvZ and PvT you are often pressured to deal damage in a given window. PvZ before hive tech, at the same time you cannot let zerg expand too freely (you could say zerg cannot let protoss do that as well, but it's nowhere near the pressure that is on P). In PvT you also want to either constantly trade with terran or engage terran before he maxes out. However at this point roles reverse and it's on T to limit protoss economy. - crippling abilities or ways to win easily. PvZ: dt drop? If u win as protoss, it's after a straightforward battle. ZvP: doom drop, simultanous lurker drops, 973, ling "all-in", muta-scourgue, 5 hatch hydra. PvT: reaver / dt / ht drop, late game carriers. TvP: vultures slipping through a hole, vulture drop, mines randomly dealing nuke damage, 3-5-7 tank pushes. From what I wrote it looks like PvT is more or less fine (allthough requires protoss to play very solid / perfect in defense). Chaotic thoughts, but StarCraft is not so simple to conclude it with just a couple of sentences. What I've been saying for years about Protoss. But maybe here it's Bonyth saying it so our Eonzerg won't be able to dive in with a variation of his "your understanding of the game is very low" arguments. I'd also add: the ability to come back from behind. Protoss has almost no mechanisms to do that (unless counting on your opponent to sabotage himself is considered a mechanism). Zerg has doom drop, tech/army switching, and the strongest game-flipping tool in the Defiler. Terran doesn't really have a reliable tool either, especially in TvZ, but they're still better than Protoss in TvP because a maxed out army can do wonders in fights, so they can camp and crawl back from there. When P falls behind, death is almost inevitable. Protoss can't camp in any matchup. Their army can't win any fights against T or Z if they're already behind. There's no end-game unit they can count on to flip the game either. | ||
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TMNT
3332 Posts
On September 16 2026 22:00 Smorrie wrote: Snow loses to an exceptionally great Shine PvZ is broken! Worst ASL Shine wasn't great lol. He just got massively ahead thanks to build order and wasn't bad enough after that to throw the game. His engagements and Hive play were average at best (for top Zerg standard). Letting Protoss break out of that ramp contain was bad enough. Fucking hell the amount of hydras and lurkers dying for free. | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines811 Posts
On September 16 2026 22:10 Bonyth wrote: xD I don't think anyone denies that Snow played poorly in the current ASL against zergs. His losses just happened when RO16 stage has ended and it turned out (for the first time in history?!) that there isn't a single representant in RO8 of one of the races. Frustration is directed at StarCraft in general, not Snow's performance. But probably u know that and just want to ridicule some people on this thread. this ASL is actually the 14th time it has happened  2014-2015 10th SonicTV StarleagueSSL10 no zerg top 8 2012 Sonic%27s BJ Starleague Season 6SSL6 no zerg in top 8 2009 Bacchus OSLOSL Bacchus 2009 no protoss in top 8 2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 12006 Shingan Bank OSL S1 - no protoss in top 8 2004-2005 IOPS OSL - no protoss in top 8 2003 Olympus OSL2003 Olympus OSL - no protoss in top 8 2002-2003 Panasonic OSL2002-2003 Panasonic OSL - no protoss in top 8 2000 Freechal OSL2000 Freechal OSL - no terran in top 8 2000 Hanaro OSL2000 Hanaro OSL - no terran in top 8 2011 PDPop MSL2011 PDPop MSL - no terran in top 8 2010 Bigfile MSL2010 Bigfile MSL - no protoss in top 8 2004-2005 You Are the Golf King MSL2004-2005 You Are the Golf King MSL - no protoss in top 8 2004 SPRIS MSL2004 SPRIS MSL - no zerg in top 8 2003 TriGem MSL2003 Trigem MSL - no protoss in top 8 tally of when a race didn't make top 8: Z 3 T 3 P 8 | ||
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