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United States7488 Posts
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no zerg TT
bisu light nada (i hope) rock
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Go Beesuit
It's probably in vain, but I thought I'd ask anyway. Anyone got a live stream address working? I'm not at home so I can't watch through DaumPlayer...
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damn streams are down again
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China3334 Posts
is it only myself who want to see light_vs_bisu games? Fighting, MBC kids!
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United States7488 Posts
On November 09 2007 18:10 Emlary wrote: is it only myself who want to see light_vs_bisu games? Fighting, MBC kids!
They have met in three different tournaments so far this year in Bo3 matches. That being said, I'd still like to see them play, but I doubt they want to. I was hoping that they would have met in the MSL, but Kwanro had to go and ruin it over there.
So you aren't the only one.
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Bisu vs Terran 51W 29L (64%) Shudder vs Protoss 5W 1L (83%) Blue Storm TvP : 5: 7 -------- Light vs Terran 23W 20L (53%) IriS vs Terran 46W 27L (63%) -------- NaDa vs Terran 155W 90L (63%) DarkElf vs Terran 15W 15L (50%) --------- FrOzean vs Protoss 10W 20L (33%) Rock vs Terran 52W 37L (58%) Katrina PvT : 7:2
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Hungary11232 Posts
thoughts: Shudder < Bisu: This match certainly looks like the upset match of the day, but even if Bisu cannot pull any secret strategy, his focus on practice WILL be against terran since quite some time. Yet, it is only BO1, so anything can happen.
Iris < Light: I am hoping for Light to show some fighting pride and put all his efforts into winning. His momentum certainly points towards beating Iris as well. And besides, decider matches > no decider matches.
Nada < Darkelf: Darkelf has been strong, also TvT, and NaDa ... well, you know the story.
Rock < Frozean: I like the idea of Frozean advancing, just for fun . He might be more motivated than Rock is, due to having an actual chance. But map odds point against him.
[edit: It is fun how the statistics above contradict everything I said. But that is the nature of statistics ]
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China3334 Posts
three BO3s? seems i miss some, i will check TLPD later :D
games starting in 1min!
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Hungary11232 Posts
On November 09 2007 18:29 Emlary wrote: three BO3s? seems i miss some, i will check TLPD later :D
WCG Korea, two times MSL.
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Are there any streams to watch? YaoYuan isn't loading for me.
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51132 Posts
No streams besides crappy Daum available?
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You're a madman if you want frozean to advance.
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daum is playing so nicely for me right now
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On November 09 2007 18:33 GTR-2-Go wrote: No streams besides crappy Daum available? u in korea and pot player dont work perfect for u ?
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Daum works for me and even i think its annoying. But better than nothing. Go bisu!!
and gtr isn't in korea hes in australia
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I cant believe people are seriously picking Light over Iris...
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51132 Posts
On November 09 2007 18:34 zurg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2007 18:33 GTR-2-Go wrote: No streams besides crappy Daum available? u in korea and pot player dont work perfect for u ?
you really think i live in a non-existant country?
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where can i get duam player?
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fuck
can anyone link me to a good stream?
or, does anyone know of the GOMTV channel number for OGN?
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Gomtv wont have osl. Try daum player. Snowbird made a thread on it it should come in search engine. If daum asks for update dont. Gets an error for me always. Only other stream is yy dont know if it works.
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blargh
any other non-daum streams?
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game started: bisu: light blue top right shudder: green bottom right
lol bisu was going to sneeze or something
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United States20661 Posts
Shudder kept stealing glances at his booth girl.
Horny bastard.
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Braavos36362 Posts
Bisu 1:00 Shudder 7:00 Blue Storm
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu attempted to get a probe into shudder's base
but denied by scv/depot/rax
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United States20661 Posts
Probe/scv dueling. A draw, no casualties, both in dark red.
After shield regeneration, Shudder backs down.
A marine sent out now.
A factory starts.
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how can i watch it on daum player? im in the game menu thing but there only 3 things to choose from: queen.. 곰TV컵 카. . SK1682. .
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Braavos36362 Posts
shudder walls, making factory bisu gate --> range
2 facs for shudder
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United States20661 Posts
no zealot, gategascore range.
2 marines kill scout probe.
a Second factory starts! Rush time :D
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United States20661 Posts
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu going for a robo there?
Shudder has both facs functional, making tank and vulture while researching something at shop.
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu massacres 4 marines without dragoon loss.
bisu adds to 3 gateways
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bisu has two idle probes :/
n/m
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu expands
Shudder powering off of 2 facs, now 38 vs 33 supply
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu has five dragoons to block Shudder's incoming 3 tank 3 vul 2 marine army
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United States20661 Posts
SHUDDER IS LIKE BOXER OMGHFHG
NICE VULTURE TRAP
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Hungary11232 Posts
Same question as L!mp, in the meantime: Thanks for the live-reports.
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United States20661 Posts
Now mass vultures move in on bisu
bisu mass buildings to block
yeah, pylon wall/goon makes bisu safe
shudder is somewhat behind now.
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United States20661 Posts
Shudder starts his cc
lifts ebay
Shudder very aggressive with vult/mines. He does quite well with them, but Bisu doesn't do badly either.
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United States20661 Posts
Reaver out for bisu, as well as shuttle.
Shudder must ahve seen shuttle with ebay
has not urrets
oh shit no turret style
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United States20661 Posts
REAVER DIES
2 TANKS DIE
GOON DIES
NO SCV DIE
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu takes his min only
he's still ahead evfen after that reaver travesty
3 vults die to a scarab
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LIMP
You click on the proleague icon in 1st page, then click on any 5 of the yellow/orange buttons,
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god thanks finally a response.. wasn't too hard was it? lol
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu massing up dragoons above Shudder's nat ramp
right now 96 supply vs 80
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu keeps getting screwed by scarab AI
right now 94 vs 108 supply, shudder vs bisu
DOUBLE ACADEMY LOL SHUDDER
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United States20661 Posts
bisu getting bottom right corner
shudder still making two acads
shudder's triple cc finishes
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lol double academy
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Damnit, I missed another reaver play. Going to have to watch the VOD to see how bad the AI is.
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu going for KARYO
adds a bunch of cannons at his nascent bottom right multi
Shudder needs to push soon if he wants to do anything
NICE mine micro kills 4 goons
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holy shit my potplayer keeps buffering T_T
so annoying.
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United States20661 Posts
Shudder quad CC
he thinks he can take the carriers, then.
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daum player working now LIMP?
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu brings goon/zeal/shuttle to try and deny Shudder's quad CC
mines and tanks make short work of six or seven goons while only killing 5 or so vults, so Bisu backs off
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daum player is great after 5 minutes buffering now it works perfect :D
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu has three carriers in the making
dual cyber core as well
shudder better be REALLY confident in his goli micro
right now roughly equal supply
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu shows his carriers
Shudder mixes in goliaths
both 180 supply!
both with about half the map too. Time for some big fights.
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United States20661 Posts
The thing I don't understand is the utter lack of high templar with bisu's army
the giant push of terran steel comes across the center of blue storm
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United States20661 Posts
I think Bisu has too many carriers for this push to end the game.
or maybe shudder has too few goliaths. At any rate, the big Terran army is stalled
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Hungary11232 Posts
Omfg, LOTS of metal. But 3 stargates building more carriers and few gols there.
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United States20661 Posts
so the carriers own that push
shudder making pure goliaths
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shudder just got rolled over
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United States20661 Posts
This is definitely Bisu's game to lose
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how many expansion on each side?
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lol@the flood of chat when gg showed
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United States20661 Posts
Carriers go into Shudder's main and rape everything. GG
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On November 09 2007 19:02 Obi-1.Kulinobi wrote: how many expansion on each side? it was like 6-4 total, and bisu had cleared out one of them, and i think the mains were mined out
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Fantastic. Bisu's into the next stage, then.
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i've got to admit, the stream at daum player is far more solid than gomplayers one, and the quality is roughly the same. didn't get a single buffer once i got it started going...
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daum player works great fir me
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On November 09 2007 19:04 L!MP wrote: i've got to admit, the stream at daum player is far more solid than gomplayers one, and the quality is roughly the same. didn't get a single buffer once i got it started going... i agree. the multiple rooms seem to help a lot, too
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Yay the buffering has stopped. Time for daum player to kick gomplayer's ass.
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Mexico1178 Posts
On November 09 2007 19:04 L!MP wrote: i've got to admit, the stream at daum player is far more solid than gomplayers one, and the quality is roughly the same. didn't get a single buffer once i got it started going... Exactly the opposite here T-T
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On November 09 2007 19:06 zXk3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2007 19:04 L!MP wrote: i've got to admit, the stream at daum player is far more solid than gomplayers one, and the quality is roughly the same. didn't get a single buffer once i got it started going... Exactly the opposite here T-T try one of the other rooms, is all i can suggest. i think i'm in room 6 of 7 because it's the 2nd least populated
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United States20661 Posts
I got a room with like 48/500
Oo;
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Daum for me buffers alot at the start but after that stage its smooth. Just the getting it to start. I thought shudder's macro looked pretty scary when he moved out at 200. Shudder's 2 fact rush would have worked better if he didnt lose all his tanks and show his 2 fact so early and didnt lose his rines. And yes if it gets laggy go to a less populated room
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Mexico1178 Posts
im on the one with 103 ppl.. im not new to daum, but if they could at least let us set a bigger buffer..
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Braavos36362 Posts
light has a lot of incentive to lose this game now
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On November 09 2007 19:10 Ilikestarcraft wrote: Daum for me buffers alot at the start but after that stage its smooth. Just the getting it to start. I thought shudder's macro looked pretty scary when he moved out at 200. Shudder's 2 fact rush would have worked better if he didnt lose all his tanks and show his 2 fact so early and didnt lose his rines. And yes if it gets laggy go to a less populated room yeah i agree... when they showed that replay, it could have been better for shudder at the start there had he moved those 1 or 2 remaining tanks back when they were getting finished off. 2 tanks with all the vults at that stage would have been deadly!
as for daum player. it was exactly the same for me ie hardcore buffer at start, then its smooth as butter.
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If Light wins -> chance for July to advance?
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light wins = (T)Iris (CJ Entus), (T)Hwasin (STX SouL), (Z)July (SK Telecom T1) 3 way tiebreaker for 2nd spot.. and light faces bisu in next knockout round
if light loses, he advances AND dodges bisu in the next round (who's on the MBC team as well). anyone else think he will throw the game? (hot_bid's call)
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On November 09 2007 19:19 L!MP wrote: ...anyone else think he will throw the game? (hot_bid's call)
#
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light is going for a quick starport, iris is expanding
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If light doesnt do any major damage hes gonna be behind.
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Yaoyuan is working smoothly for me now.
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Light isn't trying, so obvious
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Honestly it seems like iris isnt trying
He just did a suicide move
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haha hm, iris isn't really doing that well
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On November 09 2007 19:31 Ilikestarcraft wrote: Honestly it seems like iris isnt trying
He just did a suicide move lol maybe iris is really scared of bisu, too
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Hungary11232 Posts
Yeah, light REALLY looks like trying to throw the game ().
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lol these guys are playing so adorably
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is it just me or are both players looking pretty terrible throughout.... hahaha
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Light is pwning now haha!
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i wonder if light is getting frustrated that he can't play worse than iris
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On November 09 2007 19:36 traced wrote: i wonder if light is getting frustrated that he can't play worse than iris Yeah im thinking the same thing. Its like a battle who plays worse. But its entertaining haha light's supply is almost double iris
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Any1 knows how can I make daum player to buffer less? it's quite frustrating every 10 secs a buffer...
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On November 09 2007 19:38 WingSandrockX wrote: LMFAO light is laughing
Probably because he wasn't trying, but won anyways. T_T
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Iris gg haha It looks like light/bisu's booth's door is hard to open. Now i want hwasin to jump back in
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Valhalla18444 Posts
damnit
yo PR we broke even
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Hungary11232 Posts
Hwasin / July / Iris playoffs will be tasty.
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Seems like Anytime is about to upgrade his pride, beware..
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are those tie breakers gonna be played tonight?
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United States7488 Posts
On November 09 2007 18:29 Emlary wrote: three BO3s? seems i miss some, i will check TLPD later :D
games starting in 1min!
And it looks like there will be a fourth now too.
Also does anyone have any idea when the tiebreaks will be played and if they will be aired?
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OGN was stupid to let Bisu and Shudder play before Light and Iris... But Iris was even more stupid to throw this game imo.
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Weak man, what is UP at the CJ house
haven't been feeding their players?
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On November 09 2007 19:44 ~chut~ wrote: OGN was stupid to let Bisu and Shudder play before Light and Iris... But Iris was even more stupid to throw this game imo. that is a genius solution... really
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yeah iris will play bisu (probably) after bisu beats light, and that's if he wins his pool and against flash.
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On November 09 2007 19:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: damnit
yo PR we broke even
yea. I would still take Shudder over Bisu again. Bisu did a nice job by killing Shudders tanks early on, and running away from the vultures.
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Hungary11232 Posts
So what would be the reason for Iris throwing the game? Avoiding Bisu at the cost of a very unforseeable triebreaker?
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iris probably has a better shot against bisu in a best out of 3, too. pretty dumb
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why the hell would anyone throw a game if it might cost him a spot in the next round? That makes absolutely no sense.
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Did anyone see how many minerals Iris had when they were reviewing the replay? Looked like he had thousands.
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I think I voted for nada despite his slump, just because that DE vs Oov game was so demoralizing. I'm never voting for DE again lol
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good old DarkElf, the guy who managed to build 16 facts vs 4 facts and still lost the game hahaha
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NaDa looks tired and is gaining a little weight it seems.
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On November 09 2007 19:51 MyCrow wrote: Did anyone see how many minerals Iris had when they were reviewing the replay? Looked like he had thousands. In tvt terrans usually have a high min count compared to gas. Because you need gas more than minerals.
Nada beat darkelf please. Boothgirl is cute
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On November 09 2007 19:54 Elsi wrote: good old DarkElf, the guy who managed to build 16 facts vs 4 facts and still lost the game hahaha
wtf? what game is this?
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i like how that one cloaked wraith that light built in the beginning of the game killed like 4 dropships. there was even a time when Iris danced his dropship to death instead of just using comsat to kill the wraith
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
I hope nobody honestly believes that Iris would throw this.
I mean, light maybe, but Iris had everything to lose and little to gain from losing this match.
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On November 09 2007 19:57 HonestTea wrote: I hope nobody honestly believes that Iris would throw this.
I mean, light maybe, but Iris had everything to lose and little to gain from losing this match. Honesttea is like a cool breeze on a hot summer day
*fans self*
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Hungary11232 Posts
On November 09 2007 19:56 ambit!ous1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2007 19:54 Elsi wrote: good old DarkElf, the guy who managed to build 16 facts vs 4 facts and still lost the game hahaha wtf? what game is this?
DE versus oov, proleague.
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Omg the map is persona ever.
it's gonna be a long game.
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2 tvts in a row and on persona too t.t Game started
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Ugh, i missed the colours again, someone be so kind to post them?
Thanks PR!
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On November 09 2007 19:56 nujabes wrote:i like how that one cloaked wraith that light built in the beginning of the game killed like 4 dropships. there was even a time when Iris danced his dropship to death instead of just using comsat to kill the wraith I think he didnt have enough energy so he just danced it when he realized it. He dropped light's main at that time and iirc he used scanned on the wraiths.
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Darkelf using similiar build that frozean used vs flash on this map. Some 3 fact vult rush
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lol that was fast! :D though i'm sad i missed the liquibet.
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THAT was fucking depressing.
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NaDa in some big slump
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Hungary11232 Posts
So much for "long game"
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nada falls for it and darkelf's barrack won him that game.
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i hate to see nada lose like that...
breaks my heart
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honestly nada.
what the
hell.
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what happened? short summary please... i didn't bother watching heh
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Is there a thread with the songs about this seasons osl + msl +proleague?
Wondering, because i want some of the songs .
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Nada loses again, it would be an upset if he wins against anyone
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Darkelf went 2 facts and proxied a third. Nada only thinking he had 2 expoed. Mass vults were fighting in the swarm below nada's nat and darkelf brought a tank so nada backed off of the swarm. And than darkelf blocked nada's choke with his barrack which prevented nada to send reinforcments and darkelf killed all of nada's scv on his nat and vults. And it was over than.
ROCK DESTROY FROZEAN. This is one of the few times where i will root on you. Frozean looks creepy. And the map favors rock too!!!
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On November 09 2007 20:17 Camlito wrote:Is there a thread with the songs about this seasons osl + msl +proleague? Wondering, because i want some of the songs .
Oh yes there is
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Forzean changing all the settings haha!
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On November 09 2007 20:20 Hittegods wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2007 20:17 Camlito wrote:Is there a thread with the songs about this seasons osl + msl +proleague? Wondering, because i want some of the songs . Oh yes there is
Much love .
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Rock going 2 gate on a map where everygame of terrans i saw walled off -_- Wait nevermind he did it just incase frozean did some kind of marine build or something. Gassed as soon as he saw frozean walling
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Even game so far. altho, Rock lost some probes due to vulture harass.
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Two base carriers? You don't say.
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does rock go reaver into carrier always?
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rock trademark coming up, 2 stargate carriers!
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On November 09 2007 20:34 Ilikestarcraft wrote: does rock go reaver into carrier always?
Only if you by always mean "every game".
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lol rock does his strat again.
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Rock needs to know how to make High Templar and storm.
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yeah he should get some storm for those massive goliaths T_T
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Nice game! Lot of action all the time.
Rock needs them templars to be really effective.
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i hate you rock
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my man rock is terrible
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Someone's macro sucks. Look 1k min/gas
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Hungary11232 Posts
Rock without mainbase but with carriers, frozean with a blob of goliaths.
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blue goo everywhere. Metal prevails i guess.
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That is many goliath, yes?
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I dont know what i hate more Rock or frozean actually advancing instead of savior or flash
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Rock PvT
1) expand 2) get carriers 3) expand in wierd places 4) make only carriers and dragoons from the expoes in step #3 5) ?????? 6) victory
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LOL at rock shooting his own gateway
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so flash and savior has to play for the last place?
Im kinda clueless when it comes to the OSL.
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CuteAngel looking happy with himself.
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no speed zeos, no temps
Rock, you disappoint me!
3 way play off between Flash, sAviOr and Frozean. Don't get your hopes high with sAviOr, he'll lose to Flash.
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Doesn't even make speedlots or templars -_-. Day you forgot get reaver. 30 supply vs 120 t.t
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On November 09 2007 20:50 Storchen wrote: so flash and savior has to play for the last place?
Im kinda clueless when it comes to the OSL.
If frozean wins it's a tiebreaker between him, Flash and Savior.
If Rock wins Flash and Savior goes to Ro8.
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Still no word on when tiebreakers are to be played, and if they get broadcast?
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On November 09 2007 20:52 FunFluffyBunny wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2007 20:50 Storchen wrote: so flash and savior has to play for the last place?
Im kinda clueless when it comes to the OSL. If frozean wins it's a tiebreaker between him, Flash and Savior. If Rock wins Flash and Savior goes to Ro8.
ok thx!
2 bad rock lost then
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On November 09 2007 20:53 Waves wrote: Still no word on when tiebreakers are to be played, and if they get broadcast?
definitly will by broadcast, i think that will be next week but i'm not sure
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Anyone know RO8 board composition? Still to be announced?
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On November 09 2007 20:54 cSf.Loser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2007 20:53 Waves wrote: Still no word on when tiebreakers are to be played, and if they get broadcast? definitly will by broadcast, i think that will be next week but i'm not sure
Oh, I'm an idiot. It actually says "tiebreakers or quarter finals" in the calendar for the 16th. I just assumed it wasn't in the calendar because somebody else asked earlier in this thread. Oops!
On November 09 2007 20:54 IH4t3z3rg wrote: Anyone know RO8 board composition? Still to be announced?
Well it will depend on the tie-breakers won't it?
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7.11.2007 6,30 PM is this for the tiebreakers? edit: well, no, its 9-th already ..
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Watching Rock's PvT is absolutely dire. Surely he can try and use templars. Just Once
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Tiebreakers nextweek. Has to be!
Broadcast is now finished.
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templar or not, 2 base carriers is still really risky
so quarter finals looking like this?
Up vs Jaedong
Stork vs 2nd(Flash, Savior, Frozean)
1st(Flash, Savior, Frozean) vs (Iris/July/Hwasin)
Bisu vs Light
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Hungary11232 Posts
The calendar states:
Friday 16th Event Time: 18:30 2007 EVER OSL Tiebreakers or Quarterfinals.
So that might be it? Besides, we reached the maximum number of tiebreak games possible [from the outcomes of the games today]. ZvT and TvT only though, with Savior and July clawing at the terrans.
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now cheering for july and savior to advanced...but will not happen obviously terrans t_T
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China3334 Posts
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China3334 Posts
PoP, you rule. i'm too lazy :D
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God I hate the round robin format on days like today. 2 thrown games and an exhibition game between 2 previously eliminated losers.
Only Bisu/Shudder mattered.
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Hungary345 Posts
On November 09 2007 23:04 NovaTheFeared wrote: God I hate the round robin format on days like today. 2 thrown games and an exhibition game between 2 previously eliminated losers.
Only Bisu/Shudder mattered.
I think Light vs Iris mattered too, becuase Light played a bit for July today, so that watermelon zerg can have another chance. They are former teammates after all. I cheered so much for his win! It was a relief when he prevented Iris's tanks from getting to his natural with an unbelieavable timing.
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United States7488 Posts
On November 09 2007 23:58 RHCPgergo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2007 23:04 NovaTheFeared wrote: God I hate the round robin format on days like today. 2 thrown games and an exhibition game between 2 previously eliminated losers.
Only Bisu/Shudder mattered. I think Light vs Iris mattered too, becuase Light played a bit for July today, so that watermelon zerg can have another chance. They are former teammates after all. I cheered so much for his win! It was a relief when he prevented Iris's tanks from getting to his natural with an unbelieavable timing.
Light didn't want to win. And without him making it too obvious it was definitely noticeable in his play that he wasn't trying too hard to win. Now he has to play against his current teammate, Bisu. And it also gives Hwasin another chance, not just July.
And Frozean vs. Rock mattered also, as if Frozean lost, then he was out. He didn't lose though and is not out yet.
The only match that didn't matter was Nada/Darkelf. All three other matches did have an effect on the outcome of who would advance.
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yakii
Korea (South)1448 Posts
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China3334 Posts
On November 10 2007 00:15 semioldguy wrote:
Light didn't want to win. And without him making it too obvious it was definitely noticeable in his play that he wasn't trying too hard to win. Now he has to play against his current teammate, Bisu. And it also gives Hwasin another chance, not just July.
He did.
From after-match interview, Light said he fought for July tonight (they made a promise before or something like that). He also mentioned he didn't want to face Bisu in the quarter final. But it seems July matters more.
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Braavos36362 Posts
During the Light/Iris match yesterday, HonestTea said he hoped Light would try hard for his old teammate, but he (HonestTea) didn't believe it would happen because its too romantic of a notion.
But it seems he did do it for July, what a nice story.
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I don't think players try not to win vs Iris' TvT and do so. I'm pretty sure light tried hard to beat Iris at TvT.
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C'mon Bisu, win your games today and make my week complete =D
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I can't believe Iris lost. I figured.
A. Light would throw the game. B. Iris would play better anyways.
>_<
Also... how does one go from becoming the OSL 4th seed to losing every single game in group stages? I know Rock is terrible, but come on...
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that sucks this is gonna be the third league bisu eliminates light from.
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Oh man, I hope the two Zergs advance from their tiebreakers. It would be a crime against humanity if Savior got himself eliminated, and July advancing would be really cute; we'd have 3 MBC players out of 4 on one side of the bracket. (AND POTENTIAL BISU VS JULY BO5 HOLY SHIT EPIC)
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[QUOTE]On November 10 2007 00:57 yakii wrote: VODs!
Thanks yaki!
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On November 10 2007 04:41 IdrA wrote: that sucks this is gonna be the third league bisu eliminates light from. Light eliminated Bisu from WCG.
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bisu vs july semi would be so epic. it would be bisu's last pvz test, sort of like when savior had demolished every terran but had never played boxer (until the superfight match gave him the opportunity). AHHH JULY MUST MAKE IT OUT OF HIS GROUP.
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On November 10 2007 08:50 .dragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2007 04:41 IdrA wrote: that sucks this is gonna be the third league bisu eliminates light from. Light eliminated Bisu from WCG. i mean real leagues
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emphasis not on league, but wins
he's got a shot at eliminating bisu. FFS if ppl believe/delude themselves thinking Xellos can do it, Light can.
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nah the games were stupid, mm rush and whatnot. id love to see light win, but he wont.
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