EPTEVER 2007 OSL Ro16 Week 1 - 09/28/07 - Page 26
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
That being said, GGPlay still ended up taking that third expansion incredibly late, so he still had to defend it but he didn't reap enough reward for it. When I three base I usually end up with an econ similar to the Protoss at the critical point. GGPlay was ridiculously far behind in econ. He should have been at the gates of Bisu's FE, but instead he was sitting there in his base with all his hydra while Bisu's production was kicking in... | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
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Kacas
Brazil3143 Posts
bisu, savior and stork win altough i like ggplay too | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On September 29 2007 12:23 Cambium wrote: I don't know if this has been asked, what's the tool that they use to provide unit count? Good question. Did anybody else lol when Frozean scanned 10 o' clock before tapping out? Just to make sure he didn't get raped that badly? | ||
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R11
Canada213 Posts
That being said theres a question i'd like to ask... most of the games I watched wheres its Bisu vs zerg he tends to fast expand every single game. Has anyone tried to just 4 pool him or something? | ||
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gameguard
Korea (South)2132 Posts
On September 29 2007 12:08 zer0das wrote: Because he refused to build any sunkens with his spores, if memory serves me right. I'd probably get smashed by Bisu too, but one can play 3 base a hell of a lot better than Savior did in that game. That being said, GGPlay still ended up taking that third expansion incredibly late, so he still had to defend it but he didn't reap enough reward for it. When I three base I usually end up with an econ similar to the Protoss at the critical point. GGPlay was ridiculously far behind in econ. He should have been at the gates of Bisu's FE, but instead he was sitting there in his base with all his hydra while Bisu's production was kicking in... funny guy | ||
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ahole-surprise
United States813 Posts
On September 29 2007 11:58 yubee wrote: bisu's harass only becomes more efficient when a zerg overextends himself, you saw what happened to savior in msl finals. he took too many bases too quickly and couldn't handle the harass It's true that Savior's mistake in the MSL was overextending himself, in games 1 and 3 it was sair-DT and in that case you can't expand too much, at least against Bisu, because you can't defend expos with sairs killing ovies and DTs hunting down morphing or just morphed hatcheries. On the other hand, in this GGplay vs Bisu game, Bisu made reavers. If I'm not mistaken, zerg is supposed to expand like wildfire early against reaver+sair because it's much slower and less effficient at taking down start-up expansions when the zerg expands a lot. I do think the late second expo by GGplay is what cost him the game. Also, in game 2 of the MSL (savior vs bisu) on reverse temple, bisu went reaver first and savior would've been in good position if it wasn't for his poor hatchery placement in the expansion near middle. Those walls in the middle on reverse temple fucked savior up, if it wasn't for that, expanding a lot in that situation would've paid off. | ||
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ATeddyBear
Canada2843 Posts
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entityrj
United States185 Posts
On September 29 2007 13:23 R11 wrote: Didn't notice until someone said it after I watched the game... pretty funny at least he knows that he didn't get raped as badly as assumed... That being said theres a question i'd like to ask... most of the games I watched wheres its Bisu vs zerg he tends to fast expand every single game. Has anyone tried to just 4 pool him or something? It's probably a bad idea, in a map where 4-5 pooling is feasible, Bisu usually 6pylon scouts 7gate. Z has had more success just overloading him with hydras when he fe's although that hasn't held up in bo3 matchplay. | ||
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Storchen
Sweden4385 Posts
On September 29 2007 14:04 ATeddyBear wrote: Did Bisu even make a HT? yes. | ||
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On the other hand Bisu played like a champ and would have been extremely hard to stop anyway. | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On September 29 2007 11:52 zer0das wrote: Well they could start by double expanding so they at least have a chance... I think that was GGPlay's biggest mistake. His third expo was ridiculously late, so he had like zero chance. Especially given that he didn't pressure at all. He did double expand. He had two hatcheries morphing at the same time, on at his nat and one at the gaema nat. Then he added another at gaema main. | ||
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viceroy
Romania227 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On September 30 2007 05:38 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: He did double expand. He had two hatcheries morphing at the same time, on at his nat and one at the gaema nat. Then he added another at gaema main. Haha... whoops. Thought he added that much later than he did. In that case, how he got so behind in the first place is pretty inexplicable. I guess the probe managed to delay his initial expo about a minute or so. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On September 30 2007 09:04 viceroy wrote: FakeSteve, have you seen any weaknesses in Bisu's opening ? What do you think would have helped GGplay ? I know he played kind of bad, but even with a good play I don't see how he could have won this game.. 5 pool ? mass hydras ? Do you guys understand why mutas are not a good counter anymore ? overall he lost because he just played sloppy, in terms of macro and response time. the problem is savior is pretty much as clean as it gets in those aspects, and bisu still outplays him every time. | ||
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Breavman
Sweden598 Posts
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Highways
Australia6122 Posts
but if you watch saviors recent games against bisu he now goes den first instead of spire, and still loses. | ||
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viceroy
Romania227 Posts
On September 30 2007 10:02 IdrA wrote: overall he lost because he just played sloppy, in terms of macro and response time. the problem is savior is pretty much as clean as it gets in those aspects, and bisu still outplays him every time. When you say he outplays him, are you implying that there is something that Savior could do to better counter Bisu's play ? What would that be ? There are couple o games in which I don't see any big mistakes from Savior and he's still losing. What's left ? better strategy ? blame maps ? | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
he constantly harasses(intelligently) with good micro, but his macro doesnt miss a beat. There are couple o games in which I don't see any big mistakes from Savior and he's still losing. thats pretty much it, no one appears to be able to match him, playing standard but nobody is invincible, people will either develop a style that counters him, which would be interesing because he doesnt really have a unique, counterable style, or they will have to catch up in mechanics. its kind of equivalent to what savior's zvt was, he fine-tuned a few aspects, mainly defiler play, but it was nothing revolutionary. he was just really fucking good at it. | ||
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