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seriosity
United States214 Posts
![[image loading]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/629327587834986518/655943488311001108/unknown.png) ![[image loading]](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/629327587834986518/655861226634739722/Formato_versus_Week7.jpg?width=1202&height=677) Matcherino: https://matcherino.com/tournaments/20256/overview Cast: https://www.twitch.tv/titanesdelring Liquipedia:  Titanes Del Ring Nation WarsWeek 6 Spanish Cast: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/521582418 Week 6 English Cast: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/522027119 After this week, there will be a two week break for the holidays. Use this time for feedback/criticisms so we can ensure everything runs more smoothly once we return for the final 3 weeks of the regular season. | ||
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Bonyth
Poland632 Posts
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SexyGG
Bulgaria62 Posts
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InDi
Spain90 Posts
I still think that a deadline is a good thing, but then I would allow any 1v1 player to be replaced by a player of the same race (Maybe have a limit of 1 1v1 replacement per NW?). Like this in my previous example if POL-A suspects that sneaky InDi is trying to get a freewin vs Bonyth they can manage to get another Polish Pro Protoss to be available at the deadline time to play and deservedly crush him for being a sneaky bastard  .Otherwise as Captain I would like to know which team are we facing earlier, like that we could adapt the Lineup if needed, but I understand not knowing can be a bit more exciting as well | ||
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SuGo
United States681 Posts
For instance, both players agree to play at 1:00pm. But the opponent doesn't come until 1:29pm ... how can we expect someone to wait that long but it's still legal? It's not fair. If you agree to play at a certain time, you should come close to that time. I understand that there are minor delays and what not, but people showing up 25-30 minutes later is not fair and it's definitely not genuine. If someone scheduled to play at a certain time, we can't assume they don't have anything else to do after. If you agree for 1pm with your opponent and average game time of 20mins (generous), let's assume, the game is done by 1:20pm. That's it. If the person comes at 1:29pm, you're now not done until 1:49pm. So now, you've actually committed to being at your computer for almost an hour. Sorry, but not everyone has that time. Keeping the WO rule to 30 minutes is illogical and not fair to people who need to do things. I bring this up because it's happened to me and it's not fun or cool. If it's the case, then don't schedule and have a deadline instead. Or make the WO period 15 minutes. I will NOT be waiting for anyone beyond 15 minutes because clearly that person does not know how to stick to an agreed upon time between two people. It's disrespectful, rude, and immature. I don't expect everyone to have the communication skills of a corporate workplace, but it's not so much to plan and stick to it (p.s. you'd think it's common sense to send a quick message of "hey, I'm running late" -- but common sense isn't so common, right?) | ||
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EndingLife
United States1606 Posts
On December 18 2019 05:25 SuGo wrote: 30 minutes is way too long until a WO. It should be 15 minutes max, especially if there is no set deadline period. For instance, both players agree to play at 1:00pm. But the opponent doesn't come until 1:29pm ... how can we expect someone to wait that long but it's still legal? It's not fair. If you agree to play at a certain time, you should come close to that time. I understand that there are minor delays and what not, but people showing up 25-30 minutes later is not fair and it's definitely not genuine. If someone scheduled to play at a certain time, we can't assume they don't have anything else to do after. If you agree for 1pm with your opponent and average game time of 20mins (generous), let's assume, the game is done by 1:20pm. That's it. If the person comes at 1:29pm, you're now not done until 1:49pm. So now, you've actually committed to being at your computer for almost an hour. Sorry, but not everyone has that time. Keeping the WO rule to 30 minutes is illogical and not fair to people who need to do things. I bring this up because it's happened to me and it's not fun or cool. If it's the case, then don't schedule and have a deadline instead. Or make the WO period 15 minutes. I will NOT be waiting for anyone beyond 15 minutes because clearly that person does not know how to stick to an agreed upon time between two people. It's disrespectful, rude, and immature. I don't expect everyone to have the communication skills of a corporate workplace, but it's not so much to plan and stick to it (p.s. you'd think it's common sense to send a quick message of "hey, I'm running late" -- but common sense isn't so common, right?) Very reasonable complaints. Well said! | ||
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seriosity
United States214 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4300 Posts
On December 21 2019 03:01 seriosity wrote: Quick note: What determines the placement is total points, with Team Record as the first tiebreaker. Will include a more detailed results table later. that is very weird.. should actually be the other way around.. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2042 Posts
On December 21 2019 03:01 seriosity wrote: Quick note: What determines the placement is total points, with Team Record as the first tiebreaker. Will include a more detailed results table later. This makes no sense, you can win all matches but still lose to a team that lost 1-2 matches lol. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
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seriosity
United States214 Posts
On December 22 2019 01:12 kogeT wrote: This makes no sense, you can win all matches but still lose to a team that lost 1-2 matches lol. Don't forget, winning team gets an extra point as well. Not enough? It's not like this is new. The standings have always only showed the points. Discuss further, please. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4300 Posts
On December 22 2019 23:31 seriosity wrote: Don't forget, winning team gets an extra point as well. Not enough? It's not like this is new. The standings have always only showed the points. Discuss further, please. Poland is 6-1 atm but is only in 4th place while USA are 4-3 and are in 3rd place (Bolivia also 4-3 and in 9th place.. Canada 6-1 and in 1st place).. this just doesnt make any sense, because this is swiss tournament so Poland had harder opponents than USA, won more games but somehow they're in a worse place. The match record should determine the place and small points should be the first tiebreaker.. (very good system) Exactly like in every other competition of this kind. | ||
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria495 Posts
On December 30 2019 20:12 M3t4PhYzX wrote: Poland is 6-1 atm but is only in 4th place while USA are 4-3 and are in 3rd place (Bolivia also 4-3 and in 9th place.. Canada 6-1 and in 1st place).. this just doesnt make any sense, because this is swiss tournament so Poland had harder opponents than USA, won more games but somehow they're in a worse place. The match record should determine the place and small points should be the first tiebreaker.. (very good system) Exactly like in every other competition of this kind. That's the thing, Poland won less games compared to USA. I'm using the liquipedia page as point of reference and according to the results recorded there USA won 23 games while Poland won 20. However, because Poland has better wars win ratio the distance is only 1 point (mind you 5 out of 6 victories for Poland were 3-2 while USA had two 5-0's and two 4-1's). Current system seems to reward team performance by the total wins gained by players rather than nation war victories in some particular cases (grinding 3-2 wins for example). It's debatable what is the right way to measure top performance, but i wouldn't necessarily call this unfair. Possible way to reward winning the wars rather than total games won by players would be to give +2 instead of +1 for each nw win at least at first glance. | ||
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radley
Poland582 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3578 Posts
As for a deadline, indi makes a valid point, but perhaps we could have a "default time" (say, Saturday 5pm cet? So it s ok for most countries?) And then the deadline is the one we have as captains to post replays. Both players would agree to a different common time/day if possible but if not that default time would be picked. It would need to be different from the 2v2 default time too as 1v1 players often make part of the 2v2 team and cant play two games at once. So far, the only problem for us (NEU) has been the 2v2 as it is twice as hard to get 4 players to find a common time than for 1v1, so perhaps a middle ground would be to have a default 2v2 time? For 1v1, i think substitution should be a last resort solution to prevent abuse, and the current system (same race substitution, conditional on both opponent and admin agreement) works. Other than that, the league works really well and the admins reply quickly (and i m sorry for spamming you all the time ^^) | ||
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seriosity
United States214 Posts
2v2 Set time makes sense. But remember subbing is allowed in 2v2. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4300 Posts
the system were individual games would be used as the first tiebreaker would actually be ideal. | ||
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TT1
Canada10113 Posts
On December 31 2019 08:15 M3t4PhYzX wrote: The system were individual wins count more as team wins just doesnt make any sense.. In team tournament. the system were individual games would be used as the first tiebreaker would actually be ideal. agreed, something to consider for next season | ||
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BlueStar
Bulgaria1186 Posts
This whole thing is a fiasco. Seriosity you are doing your best but it's not enough if the other 'admins' don't help. And many decisions are very controversial! Having draws when all players want to play - WHAT IS THIS. It's either you don't want to set a fixed deadline or you want to help your buddies. - The first option - WHY not??! - The 2nd option - hope it's not that! I'm very disappointed so far with this league. Had higher expectations before it began, now my players are tired of having to walk the talk each week just because you don't want to set clear rules. Not to mention how many times the rules were changed and updated... | ||
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BlueStar
Bulgaria1186 Posts
On December 31 2019 00:39 radley wrote: To be honest i don't really now how this swiss system works here. It was supposed to be swiss system, but I don't think you are supposed to play against opponents 10 places behind you, like for example Poland has to play vs Czech Republic in next round. So probably its just round robin, but they selectively pick opponents being as close to each other during given round as it can. 1st few rounds were swiss, after that the admins messed the scores before announcing the next round matches. From there the swiss is just not there anymore. | ||
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