Game 1: Barracks is still mediocre and Bogus is still good. Valks<Dropships into 2 bases<the rest of the map into sieged tanks<unsieged tanks. GG. Ok midgame if you like TvTs
Game 2: Really crisp thought out build from Shuttle beats Flash in a semi long macro game. Tense and hectic, thought it was enjoyable. Good army composition from Shuttle. CARRIERS!!!
Game 3: 2 fact timing push < 1 gate DT expo + miracle DT not dying to a mine that should have killed it lol. Cross map helps too.
Game 4: CH BO advantage + Calm subpar ling micro = quick ZvZ, not very exciting unless you are rooting for KT ^^
Game 5: Hoejja goes 3 hatch before pool, fakes a hydra bust, makes over 9000 drones and saurons Kal's ass into hell. Pretty one sided game but fuck ya Hoejja! Switch hitter strikes again!
bogus sets up a few sieged tanks across the E chasm and manages to get some advantageous shots on rax's transiting army wraiths pick off another dropship
rax carefully moving his tank line a bit forwards to attack bogus's but fucks it up, losing a few (important) tanks despite having a building to aid vision while bogus doesn't
rax starting to gather wraiths of his own bogus on 6 facts now? rax goes on another another vulture raid, on 10.5 with 5 vultures wraiths/dropped forces respond
Barracks needs to be fired and traded for a decent toss. KT doesn't need to a second terran when Flash pretty much plays as if he were Really, Leta, Skyhigh, and Light combined...
On June 18 2011 13:34 Yongtaek wrote: Barracks needs to be fired and traded for a decent toss. KT doesn't need to a second terran when Flash pretty much plays as if he were Really, Leta, Skyhigh, and Light combined...
No, it's really prohibitive to have only one terran for a Bo7 for a wide variety of reasons. KT needs to develop Barracks better, not get rid of him. Or just persuade ForGG to come back.
shuttle clearing a few mines in the SE corner of the map 5 vultures running around, 2 vultures traded to take put the probe sent out towards the east and 2 come back and kill another sent out, delaying shuttle's 4th a bit
shuttle engage flash's army with carrier/goon/storm! the goons turn into blue soup in a flash though and the carriers have to flee from the goliaths, 1 explodes 3 dts swiping at flash's goliaths scanned! only 1 falls?
Flash gets good mileage out of his vults--five of them manage to keep Shuttle's relatively thin goon army home for a while, letting Flash get his defensive wall on the spoke in front of his nat unmolested
And he snipes the probe sent out to build Shuttle's 4th
Shuttle moves out to pressure Flash a little, but Flash's wall is complete now with 8-10 tanks, 3 depots, floating buildings, turrets, and 8 factories' of rally points to back it up
First carriers out, pokes natural
Flash's FPVOD on--shows a very defensive macro focus on his APM
engagement--Shuttle breaks off first line of tanks on ridge, but backs up
flash takes ridge
Shuttle pokes with carriers, is out of position, loses one
On June 18 2011 14:03 okum wrote: Flash just doesn't know how to win TvP anymore
He has no idea how to play against carrier/DT on maps where the fourth is hard to take. This is the exact same failed game plan we saw on Bloody Ridge against Tyson.
On June 18 2011 14:05 Turbovolver wrote: edit: Shuttle didn't achieve a huge amount with his carriers, it was Flash missing the switch back to mass ground that caught him out.
Shuttle put all that gas that would've gone to carriers straight back into mass templar of both varieties and it served him very well.
Except the part where he killed like 30 workers and ruined Flash's economy at a crucial point?
On June 18 2011 14:05 Turbovolver wrote: edit: Shuttle didn't achieve a huge amount with his carriers, it was Flash missing the switch back to mass ground that caught him out.
Shuttle put all that gas that would've gone to carriers straight back into mass templar of both varieties and it served him very well.
Except the part where he killed like 30 workers and ruined Flash's economy at a crucial point?
He did kill a lot of SCVs in the Northeast bases, but that was right when he made the switch, he sacrificed his carriers to kill all those SCVs. So yes, you could call that effective, but I mean it's not normally what a P going carriers wants to do, is my point.
I thought Shuttle did a good job at: -denying expansions initially -destroying the upper right expos even if it cost him his carrier force -tech switch to zeal/goon/HT in order to take advantage of Flash's gol heavy army - Shuttle was even building an arbiter tribunal
Can't win them all Flash. A shame, because KT really needs you now
On June 18 2011 14:05 Turbovolver wrote: edit: Shuttle didn't achieve a huge amount with his carriers, it was Flash missing the switch back to mass ground that caught him out.
Shuttle put all that gas that would've gone to carriers straight back into mass templar of both varieties and it served him very well.
Except the part where he killed like 30 workers and ruined Flash's economy at a crucial point?
Hah yeah that was really painful to watch, ugh I had nightmares about those situations.
On June 18 2011 14:11 TwoToneTerran wrote: I don't get why KT keeps sending flash on bad TvP maps. I mean unless they just knew a zerg was coming out on la mancha which makes no sense.
Aren't Flash fans proud of Flash being able to win on imbalanced maps?
On June 18 2011 14:09 GTR wrote: i don't know how to explain the lore but only archons, dark archons, vultures and workers avoid detonating mines
Well vultures plant the little fuckers, surely they were designed not to trigger them as well. Archons and Darchons are made of balls of energy, they do not have much mass to trigger them.
On June 18 2011 14:09 GTR wrote: i don't know how to explain the lore but only archons, dark archons, vultures and workers avoid detonating mines
Well vultures plant the little fuckers, surely they were designed not to trigger them as well. Archons and Darchons are made of balls of energy, they do not have much mass to trigger them.
Workers... I don't know :>
Workers obviously don't trigger them because vultures would be the most imba unit in the game.
On June 18 2011 14:09 GTR wrote: i don't know how to explain the lore but only archons, dark archons, vultures and workers avoid detonating mines
Well vultures plant the little fuckers, surely they were designed not to trigger them as well. Archons and Darchons are made of balls of energy, they do not have much mass to trigger them.
Workers... I don't know :>
Workers obviously don't trigger them because vultures would be the most imba unit in the game.
Hahahaha.
One mine in your mineral line FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
I think Flash could have won if he had switched to vultures sooner to defend his fourth. He lost too many goliaths to Shuttle's ground reinforcements while there only were two carriers left.
On June 18 2011 14:11 TwoToneTerran wrote: I don't get why KT keeps sending flash on bad TvP maps. I mean unless they just knew a zerg was coming out on la mancha which makes no sense.
Flash can defy map imba and I still think he's the best TvP in the world generally (Bo5 Starleague Fantasy is not here right now, I get to watch the crappy non-playoffs Proleague Fantasy instead)
Besides when was Shuttle or any STX protoss known for PvT?
On June 18 2011 14:09 GTR wrote: i don't know how to explain the lore but only archons, dark archons, vultures and workers avoid detonating mines
Well vultures plant the little fuckers, surely they were designed not to trigger them as well. Archons and Darchons are made of balls of energy, they do not have much mass to trigger them.
On June 18 2011 14:11 TwoToneTerran wrote: I don't get why KT keeps sending flash on bad TvP maps. I mean unless they just knew a zerg was coming out on la mancha which makes no sense.
Flash can defy map imba and I still think he's the best TvP in the world generally (Bo5 Starleague Fantasy is not here right now, I get to watch the crappy non-playoffs Proleague Fantasy instead)
Besides when was Shuttle or any STX protoss known for PvT?
Shuttle and Kal have always had pretty good PvT. In fact, Flash vs. Kal games have been some of the closest and most exciting.
On June 18 2011 14:09 GTR wrote: i don't know how to explain the lore but only archons, dark archons, vultures and workers avoid detonating mines
Well vultures plant the little fuckers, surely they were designed not to trigger them as well. Archons and Darchons are made of balls of energy, they do not have much mass to trigger them.
Workers... I don't know :>
wtf u are stx now
I've always been a huge KT and STX fan. Just needed some change with the tag, spice things up. Still cheering for both as always :3
On June 18 2011 14:17 Tenhou wrote: You guys have to admit that shuttle was smart enough to force Flash to scan for DT that he can't uses scan to see the switch coming :/
On June 18 2011 14:17 Tenhou wrote: You guys have to admit that shuttle was smart enough to force Flash to scan for DT that he can't uses scan to see the switch coming :/
Smart enough to use the exact same strategy Kal beat Flash with on Aztec six months ago, yes
It's totally Flash's fault for continuing to come out on maps where this is viable without an answer to it, though.
On June 18 2011 14:11 TwoToneTerran wrote: I don't get why KT keeps sending flash on bad TvP maps. I mean unless they just knew a zerg was coming out on la mancha which makes no sense.
Flash can defy map imba and I still think he's the best TvP in the world generally (Bo5 Starleague Fantasy is not here right now, I get to watch the crappy non-playoffs Proleague Fantasy instead)
Besides when was Shuttle or any STX protoss known for PvT?
Shuttle and Kal have always had pretty good PvT. In fact, Flash vs. Kal games have been some of the closest and most exciting.
Buh? Shuttle's like <50% in the matchup, is generally regarded as a PvP specialist and I clearly remember a one-sided loss to friggin Canata in Winner's League
Kal, yeah at one point sure but he's doing pretty poorly right now. I guess you can count Kal though so I'll concede that
1 dt swiping at last's army moving out towards stats's nat
mines laid in a very dangerous position but last lucks out and takes out the dt without losing too much of his own army to splash adding a turret at stats nat! but dt drags a mine into 2 marines and forces the last tank to retreat!
On June 18 2011 14:22 scrubtastic wrote: Buh? Shuttle's like <50% in the matchup, is generally regarded as a PvP specialist and I clearly remember a one-sided loss to friggin Canata in Winner's League
Kal, yeah at one point sure but he's doing pretty poorly right now. I guess you can count Kal though so I'll concede that
He isn't consistent but he's the kind of player who can beat anyone. In the past few months, he's beaten Baby, Fantasy, and now Flash, and historically there was a series in I think GOM where he pushed Flash really hard. His average PvT isn't good, but his peak PvTs are excellent.
On June 18 2011 14:22 scrubtastic wrote: Buh? Shuttle's like <50% in the matchup, is generally regarded as a PvP specialist and I clearly remember a one-sided loss to friggin Canata in Winner's League
Kal, yeah at one point sure but he's doing pretty poorly right now. I guess you can count Kal though so I'll concede that
He isn't consistent but he's the kind of player who can beat anyone. In the past few months, he's beaten Baby, Fantasy, and now Flash, and historically there was a series in I think GOM where he pushed Flash really hard. His average PvT isn't good, but his peak PvTs are excellent.
So, he is not consistent, but when he gets "fueled" he is hard to stop right?
On June 18 2011 14:22 scrubtastic wrote: Buh? Shuttle's like <50% in the matchup, is generally regarded as a PvP specialist and I clearly remember a one-sided loss to friggin Canata in Winner's League
Kal, yeah at one point sure but he's doing pretty poorly right now. I guess you can count Kal though so I'll concede that
He isn't consistent but he's the kind of player who can beat anyone. In the past few months, he's beaten Baby, Fantasy, and now Flash, and historically there was a series in I think GOM where he pushed Flash really hard. His average PvT isn't good, but his peak PvTs are excellent.
He and Flash mined out HBR in a really epic set of games in the Averatec Intel Classic.
this is why shuttle is my favorite player - he can beat anyone when he's in player-killer mode. I'm convinced. :p
Just his inconsistency, he has really dramatic ups and downs in his games and matches, which make him really exciting (for me) to watch. cheer for him when he's down and cheer like mad hell when he's up.
He's definitely the protoss version of SkyHigh, way best in his own mirror match up, however he's becoming REALLY well rounded lately, and his PvT isn't far behind PvP now, I don't think. He's 50% in the matchup, however he's winning 5-6 games vT in a row, then dropping one or two, then streaking it again.
On June 18 2011 14:22 scrubtastic wrote: Buh? Shuttle's like <50% in the matchup, is generally regarded as a PvP specialist and I clearly remember a one-sided loss to friggin Canata in Winner's League
Kal, yeah at one point sure but he's doing pretty poorly right now. I guess you can count Kal though so I'll concede that
He isn't consistent but he's the kind of player who can beat anyone. In the past few months, he's beaten Baby, Fantasy, and now Flash, and historically there was a series in I think GOM where he pushed Flash really hard. His average PvT isn't good, but his peak PvTs are excellent.
So, he is not consistent, but when he gets "fueled" he is hard to stop right?
You know when you're laddering, and you get in that zone that makes you un-breakable? Shuttle gets those too.
Calm was a bit down by bo and then he uses most of his minerals for zergling for the TRY TO SNIPE ZERGLING game and failed at it and CH got a 2nd hatch and out larva calm.
holy shit hoejja's build was ridiculously sick. I cant believe I've never seen someone do that before. it's brilliant (although pretty much a 1-time only thing).
Tempest sends a goon south while scouting west - lucky sob but his goon isn't able to hunt down the scouting scv, and his probe scout denied by marines
But seriosly - flash shows signs of vulnerability, all players better use this. Even in the won series he wins games quickly - he might be not THAT confident in his ability to macro as it's thought to be.
On June 18 2011 22:50 _Quasar_ wrote: Flash lost 4th SPL game in a row, lol what.
Bisu #1 ELO? More lol what. O_o
But seriosly - flash shows signs of vulnerability, all players better use this. Even in the won series he wins games quickly - he might be not THAT confident in his ability to macro as it's thought to be.
May be his wrist problems though.
Iirc correctly Flash said a while ago in an interview that he had to adjust his style according to his wrist situation. I think he even apologized to his fans for sometimes not being able to show the games he wants to(= intense macro games), etc.
On June 18 2011 23:35 Motivate wrote: flash needs to stop getting sniped. also needs to wipe that "i don't give a crap" look off his face whenever he loses.
I know the OSL prelim thread is that way, but what the heck lol? Bisu beaten by...some guy playing Zerg, Best's PvT beaten by...who??? Light, soulkey and Leta fail to advance??
On June 19 2011 04:43 vectorix108 wrote: Wow Hoejja.... Well Kal at this form can be beaten by anyone pretty much
did you watch that game? I'm pretty sure that build would of destroyed any protoss in the world lol. kal didnt do much wrong except for fall to the mind game which I think any protoss would of. it was just so fucking brilliant lol
On June 19 2011 05:39 _Quasar_ wrote: if this is a mind game I am the Pope, protoss need to just stop dying to fake 3 hatch hydra into macro Or maybe this is an imba build? *trollface*
it wasnt just the fake 3 hat hydra. it was how he went 3 hat before pool while making kal think he was 9pooling. the combination of the 2 totally fucked kal hard. by the time kal had enough gateways to make an army, hoejja had 4 bases fully running.
and kal didnt even really "fall" for fake hydra bust. he only had 1 gateway that was going to get picked off by the time he scouted the hydras, the only thing he could do was make cannons. had he made any fewer cannons, hoejja could of just pumped hydras instead of drones and broke him (this is how 3 hat hydra usually fucks over most protoss that lose to it though).
People are making way too big a deal about Flash's losing streak. Remember last year? After 3-0ing Jaedong in the Hana Daetoo MSL, Flash started sucking in R5 and kept losing every single ace match while his teammates started doing a lot better. It's the same situation here. Eventually, KT went on to win the PL grand finals (I don't think it's gonna happen this time though) and Flash won dual golds and the WCG grand finals.
If anyone has been keeping track of 2011 records, then they'd notice that Flash vT and vZ are going strong. His vZ would be above 80% like his vT if not for Jaedong. However, his vP is 60%. This means that if anyone is going to take down Flash in the starleague it's going to have to be a Toss as evidenced in his latest vP track record in these proleagues. + Show Spoiler +
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