Good job Lightwip, you beat me to it. Now you became a baller because of the speed. Now convert the OP into some awesome fancy magical land of Hyuk, Bisu, and SKTs!
On December 28 2010 18:14 razorsuKe wrote: what a way to start the night off
Huge crowd, big cheers as JD and Bisu face off in the first match!
This is so critical, whoever wins, their team can use that momentum, oh man, so excite.
More importantly, if Bisu wins against Jaedong, I will feel a lot more comfortable about his chances with Shine.
On the other hand if Bisu stands victorious after a long 30 minute epic game against Jaedong and then lose in 10 minutes against Shine's double hydra busts...
dunno why jaedong waited to mass up lings to take down zealot when only two at a time could reach it, if he didnt mass them he could have retreated damaged lings and not lost as much
Bisu going for a BIG push with quite a sizable force of zealots looking to take out JD's nat! Nat reached- chaos everywhere as the zealots wreak havoc and JD throws down a bunch of sunkens and even a spore colony to fend off the relentless sairs! But JD was a bit too late- The zealots are slaughtering everything, and JD is forced with a pissed off scowl to GG.
Bisu runs out of his booth, high-fives his teammates happily, then THROWS BOTH FISTS up in the air like a TOTAL CHAMP!!
KIM TAEK-SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN HAS PREVAILED TONIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT
Impressive stuff from Bisu. That win should do heaps for his confidence. The way he reacted with his hands in the air suggests how much it means to him - I haven't seen him react that way to a win in a long time.
On December 28 2010 18:27 Malinor wrote: Utter domination. Jaedong again with a build where he won't build any units for the first 15 minutes. So unbelievable greedy.
Bisu on the other hand, most beautiful harassing player of all time. That was so good.
I remember him using the same build vs Stats in the MSL. Stats got drowned by a horde of Cows and Lings after Stats failed to break him O_o
nah, they can come back. fantasy will get smashed by whoever he plays, and from watching best recently he might follow the same road. cant underestimate anytime or hiya if they actually decide to not suck, and maybe this will be one of the games where killer plays really well and actually keeps his lead instead of throwing it away
I really hate watching Jaedongs games when he plays like this. Sure, if he gets away with it, the lategame is just domination with millions of units streaming from all those hatcheries. I hate watching it, and Bisu knows how to punish greedy zergs like no other.
On December 28 2010 18:27 Malinor wrote: Utter domination. Jaedong again with a build where he won't build any units for the first 15 minutes. So unbelievable greedy.
Bisu on the other hand, most beautiful harassing player of all time. That was so good.
I remember him using the same build vs Stats in the MSL. Stats got drowned by a horde of Cows and Lings after Stats failed to break him O_o
Yeah, if it works, it is crazy. But as we all know, Stats isn't Bisu
On December 28 2010 18:27 Skillz_Man wrote: I haven't been following BW much, but aren't you supposed to make Hydras with that build? ^^;;
Jaedong :[
No. That was the quick 4-base turtling build using sunkens and early lings for minimal defense until 4-base macro kicks in.
For some reason, perhaps due to early drone loss or Bisu skipping +1, Jaedong's sunken timing was off against the first wave of speedlots. It was basically downhill from there as Jaedong tried to recover from economic losses.
No protoss in the world want to take it to late game vs Jaedong. still thats exactly what he seem to think Bisu wanted.
Why go for a build were you have no units at all. Did JD really expect Bisu to camp behind FE and then push out only to take a third after templar or reaver tech? come on that was not even hard for Bisu! Going Sair DT and face like 4 scourge and then just winning by sending in zeals and 1 archon is not that hard. JD just gave this away with out a fight.
im a- protoss with best mu pvz, and i am confused too. i started watching from when bisu started making archives so i don't exactly know what he did but he did +1 air and templar archive. "normally" if they go templar archive protoss don't do leg upgrade, and jaedong saw archive and +1 air upgrade and the trapped probe (for stacking corsairs) with his scourges so it's logical and sensible for him to think there won't be speedzealot. he would have expected a standard corsair dt so he would have prepared to make sunkens at a timing to just counter the dark templar but bisu came with zealots before dt
jaedong is my favorite player, but he's been losing all of the important games this season, be they games against s-class players or ace match games. he needs to get his act together.
Because Bisu made DT and hit the timing too well. That the mining time was disrupted and the drones loss were the main reason for Jaedong's lateness in units and tech. He had no choice but building sunken at every base and hoped. But still, it's Bisu.
You know, I'm starting to worry about that despairing expression JD has on his face recently with those heavy dark bags and no glimmer of confidence in his eyes. It looked like it first appeared in his match against Hogil, and it seemed like I saw it again tonight.
Where was Angrydong today/that night against Hogil? Whenever I see that face, I get a really bad feeling in my gut for the Dong.
On December 28 2010 18:35 NrG.GoD- wrote: jaedong wasn't greedy.
im a- protoss with best mu pvz, and i am confused too. i started watching from when bisu started making archives so i don't exactly know what he did but he did +1 air and templar archive. "normally" if they go templar archive protoss don't do leg upgrade, and jaedong saw archive and +1 air upgrade and the trapped probe (for stacking corsairs) with his scourges so it's logical and sensible for him to think there won't be speedzealot. he would have expected a standard corsair dt so he would have prepared to make sunkens at a timing to just counter the dark templar but bisu came with zealots before dt
I also love how everyone is teaching JD how to play lol. It hurts that he lost, but I'm sure he knows what he's doing, it's just that Bisu hit a great timing.
On December 28 2010 18:35 j2choe wrote: I believe he forgot to turn the Korean back to English. The letters you saw correspond to the g key on an English keyboard.
On December 28 2010 18:35 NrG.GoD- wrote: jaedong wasn't greedy.
im a- protoss with best mu pvz, and i am confused too. i started watching from when bisu started making archives so i don't exactly know what he did but he did +1 air and templar archive. "normally" if they go templar archive protoss don't do leg upgrade, and jaedong saw archive and +1 air upgrade and the trapped probe (for stacking corsairs) with his scourges so it's logical and sensible for him to think there won't be speedzealot. he would have expected a standard corsair dt so he would have prepared to make sunkens at a timing to just counter the dark templar but bisu came with zealots before dt
at that point game was already over..
the early speedlot push in itself didn't do that much damage though, and going for those fast 4 bases is a greedy build in itself. Skipping Lurkers and Hydras completely is greedy, Jaedong really overdroned and didn't make enough lings/sunkens to hold off Bisu's Archon/Zlot attack
On December 28 2010 18:35 NrG.GoD- wrote: jaedong wasn't greedy.
im a- protoss with best mu pvz, and i am confused too. i started watching from when bisu started making archives so i don't exactly know what he did but he did +1 air and templar archive. "normally" if they go templar archive protoss don't do leg upgrade, and jaedong saw archive and +1 air upgrade and the trapped probe (for stacking corsairs) with his scourges so it's logical and sensible for him to think there won't be speedzealot. he would have expected a standard corsair dt so he would have prepared to make sunkens at a timing to just counter the dark templar but bisu came with zealots before dt
at that point game was already over..
Ahh, thank you! :D
I think Jaedong went for a fast 4th, and that is how he lost. Bisu's PvZ is very aggressive and has been using Zealot timing pushes a LOT. Unfortunately, Jaedong went that really fast 4th and had little to nothing to defend against that push. Bisu killed most of Jaedong's 3rd drones so by then, it was over.
Terran should be kicked off the A-team for this shit. Any D+ level Terran would have done better after scouting the DT. Cancels the ebay half way through then starts academy like 40 seconds after scouting the DT tech. What a fucking idiot
....Wow this is so sad. Why cancel a 30^% done ebay for a comsat? I can't believe Perfectman is going to win this because Ssak failed. GG! Good for Oz, but it makes me sad anyways.
On December 28 2010 18:35 NrG.GoD- wrote: jaedong wasn't greedy.
im a- protoss with best mu pvz, and i am confused too. i started watching from when bisu started making archives so i don't exactly know what he did but he did +1 air and templar archive. "normally" if they go templar archive protoss don't do leg upgrade, and jaedong saw archive and +1 air upgrade and the trapped probe (for stacking corsairs) with his scourges so it's logical and sensible for him to think there won't be speedzealot. he would have expected a standard corsair dt so he would have prepared to make sunkens at a timing to just counter the dark templar but bisu came with zealots before dt
at that point game was already over..
the early speedlot push in itself didn't do that much damage though, and going for those fast 4 bases is a greedy build in itself. Skipping Lurkers and Hydras completely is greedy, Jaedong really overdroned and didn't make enough lings/sunkens to hold off Bisu's Archon/Zlot attack
no but the build jaedong did is not greedy because it would work against a corsair dt. consider that there was no speedzealot and bisu came a little later with dts which would not have done much damage cuz of sunkens and siim city.
Then his 4th mining base is safe cuz speedzealots come a beat after that
what i imagine is jaedong woulda upgraded +1armor for air and planned to counter corsair/zealot/archon with muta/scourge/sunken and simcity and hivetech --> 4gas ultra but this was interrupted by speedzealot.
So yes, consequentially what jaedong did could be described greedy, but from jaedong's perspective it wasn't greedy it was perfectly planned out. he just failed to read that bisu could hvae done speedzealot. i don't know where he got extra 150 gas, unless there was a delay between his adun and templar archive (which i don't know cuz i didn't watch)
prolly had a timing in his head for when to expect dts, cancelled the ebay to cut corners and forgo turrets etc that would have come if he had scouted robo tech. earlier dt from proxy made him pay for it
Ssak should really never ever ever be played again. That might have been the dumbest decision I have ever seen in 10 years of watching BW. Why the hell cancel the ebay for the academy when you know the archives is done already? WHy WHY WHY?
I think he was trying to caculate the DT timing if it were to come from non-proxy gate. Cutting corners cost him big -- but thats what you are supposed to do. Taking risks to cut corners to gain advantage. Not a huge fail imo. Now what is this on stream...
There are 2 koreans on my stream, eating in front of the camera, with a microphone nearby, making the most disgusting eating noises.... WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?
On December 28 2010 18:48 phosphorylation wrote: I think he was trying to caculate the DT timing if it were to come from non-proxy gate. Cutting corners cost him big -- but thats what you are supposed to do. Taking risks to cut corners to gain advantage. Not a huge fail imo. Now what is this on stream...
He had scouted the whole effing base for over a minute. He had to know there was a gateway missing.
There are 2 koreans on my stream, eating in front of the camera, with a microphone nearby, making the most disgusting eating noises.... WHAT THE HELL IS THAT
Oh dear!! You'd better get rid of those Koreans quick, before they eat all your food!! .....
On December 28 2010 18:46 kaleidoscope wrote: i have not seen any games more fail than that..
was he bribed? i mean, even scouting the dt rush..
and how was this game voted as Recommended lol
Since it is such an epic fail, it is VERY funny to watch, at least it was for me. I hope JaedongOz (or PerfectOz) still has a chance ... I hope Anytime continues his winning streak and Killer will murder someone again.
On December 28 2010 18:45 onewingedmoogle wrote: prolly had a timing in his head for when to expect dts, cancelled the ebay to cut corners and forgo turrets etc that would have come if he had scouted robo tech. earlier dt from proxy made him pay for it
If that's how he's coached, then that's just stupid.
Given that his expansion timing is way quicker than his opponent's, there's no reason to squeeze a little extra advantage at the cost of losing your whole game. It's absurd reasoning to the fullest. I realize that Perfectman's play, without the 2nd gateway, looks to be DT-into-expansion. But even so terran's still incredibly ahead by stopping the DTs.
On December 28 2010 18:46 Lann555 wrote: Ssak should really never ever ever be played again. That might have been the dumbest decision I have ever seen in 10 years of watching BW. Why the hell cancel the ebay for the academy when you know the archives is done already? WHy WHY WHY?
having an acad for detection (2 scans going up before regular dt will make it to base, not proxy) is much better for the lategame than turrets (because the effectiveness of shuttle drops goes down greatly as time goes by, and building turrets right before you need them is the most effective use of the minerals at the time)
but it was still stupid because being 2 base terran is such a huge advantage anyway that he didn't need to do that just going with the ebay considering that it was already fairly completed wouldn't have made too much difference in cancelling it
On December 28 2010 18:50 dukethegold wrote: Maybe Mong thought he can hold off DT with mines and double scan? If the proxy gateway was not in play, he would have held it off just fine.
He should've had the gamesense to realize that something was missing from that base. Maybe a pylon or a tech building?
On December 28 2010 18:48 phosphorylation wrote: I think he was trying to caculate the DT timing if it were to come from non-proxy gate. Cutting corners cost him big -- but thats what you are supposed to do. Taking risks to cut corners to gain advantage. Not a huge fail imo. Now what is this on stream...
He had scouted the whole effing base for over a minute. He had to know there was a gateway missing.
Not just that. There was no reason to cut corners given that he would already be solidly ahead if he can prevent the DT from doing any damage. He could start a CC in his main at the same time and be in a very solid position.
Not to mention that cutting corners would be to build detection at the last second. Not starting an ebay and then changing your mind after 20 seconds and go for academy instead. Even if there hadn't been a proxy gate, he would have been too late with the detection
I think they both were paid to lose by 2 different bet website. So yeah, nobody won here. Everybody lost, Ssak lost his pride and his team's game, PM lost hit money and who cares about a SC match?
On December 28 2010 18:48 phosphorylation wrote: I think he was trying to caculate the DT timing if it were to come from non-proxy gate. Cutting corners cost him big -- but thats what you are supposed to do. Taking risks to cut corners to gain advantage. Not a huge fail imo. Now what is this on stream...
He had scouted the whole effing base for over a minute. He had to know there was a gateway missing.
the lack of an extra pylon should have tipped him off, but the fact that there had to be a missing GATEWAY is not true because it was started building after citadel so the timing wouldn't have been too off if i was ssak i would be afraid of proxy robo at that point instead
Both the first two games sucked, why did anyone vote yes.
Game 1) Loser didn't make any units, of course they lost Game 2) Loser scouted and totally ignored the scouting information and lost. Of course they lost
He sees entire base with dt tech and only 1 gate and 1 missing pylon. If he is not counting pylons he should be beaten with a stick by the coach. If he assumes perfectman is going to expand on 1 gate, he is giving perfectman way too much credit.
First perfectman fails and lets a SCV get a full scan of his base, then Ssak fails with a cancel on the ebay!!!!!!!!! Man that game waas so weird and entertaining!!
On December 28 2010 18:53 chisuri wrote: I think they both were paid to lose by 2 different bet website to lose. So yeah, nobody won here. Everybody lost, Ssak lost his pride and his team's game, PM lost hit money and who cares about a SC match?
i don't know if you guys actually think that they are rigging matches but these are pretty serious accusations
especially hurtful and powerful accusations considering the whole betting scandal
just because either side sucks doesn't mean that they're dropping matches on purpose i mean consider the long and epic history of perfectman nuff said
On December 28 2010 18:54 Art.FeeL wrote: anyone knows the name of this song they are putting when they show players. and was JAedong vs Bisu a good game? didnt see it
On December 28 2010 18:54 Art.FeeL wrote: anyone knows the name of this song they are putting when they show players. and was JAedong vs Bisu a good game? didnt see it
bisu fans will scream "yes omg bisu so great fucking outplayed" jaedong fans will say "no jaedong was too greedy and he lost because of it"
it was pretty mediocre. ended quickly because jaedong didnt make units. nothing too special unless you like to watch games just to see a player you like win
On December 28 2010 18:54 durron597 wrote: Both the first two games sucked, why did anyone vote yes.
Game 1) Loser didn't make any units, of course they lost Game 2) Loser scouted and totally ignored the scouting information and lost. Of course they lost
G1: voted yes because world best PvZ player vs. world best ZvP player G2: voted yes because I recommend watching it for the lulz
On December 28 2010 18:53 chisuri wrote: I think they both were paid to lose by 2 different bet website to lose. So yeah, nobody won here. Everybody lost, Ssak lost his pride and his team's game, PM lost hit money and who cares about a SC match?
i don't know if you guys actually think that they are rigging matches but these are pretty serious accusations
especially hurtful and powerful accusations considering the whole betting scandal
just because either side sucks doesn't mean that they're dropping matches on purpose i mean consider the long and epic history of perfectman nuff said
No, I just made a joke. Sorry if it caused you any inconvenience.
what the fuck is this s2 gets a BO win decides to ling all in
killer gets a shot back into the game lets his lings take stupid damage and now killer uses his mutas to attack while his main will get wrecked by extra mutas instead of securing a free expo
killer buying time to saturate his base back he quadrupled his drones count back meaning 4 drones and s2 has already the same amount if not more muta + def at base with spores gg no re
wow killer not only did you win the fight you let him pick off one of ur last two mutas for nothing and then let his muta dance and then let your last muta die to 1 scourge not even two like facepalm or w/e
On December 28 2010 19:07 _Quasar_ wrote: why fail? This is normal ZvZ, i'm surprised to see killer's normal play.
Though, Killer, maybe you finally, fucking, attack??
He can't, s2 has spores which ensures that any drone losses will result in Killer's mutalisks taking damage. The minute Killer leaves his base, he is free to be backstabbed.
everyone who is saying S2 should go on the offensive would lose why go on the offensive when you have a spore, a lesser army (because you're not going all in) and you have 2 hatches instead of 1?
i can't think of anything to recommend that game for like there weren't even any epic faces if S2 made a ggaemo face i would recommend it for just that
Time to pause Fedor's stream until the next game.....I respect every streamer's right to show whatever they like on their stream, so I'm not going to moan.
Thanks again for streaming Fedor, and thanks for streaming until you ran out of quota Craton.
Bisu: Jaedong, do you what is the difference beetwen you and an average Shine ? JD: Of course, I have superior micro, game -sense, macro, I sing better and everything Bisu: Average Shine can me win two games in a row vs me
On December 28 2010 19:19 baubo wrote: ggaemo's 11-8 this PL season. What are Oz non-Jaedong players' records?
How did they just let him go!?
ggaemo has evolved after leaving hwaseung probably from the fact that he had people other than the #1 zerg and a bunch of scrubs practicing with him T_T
and all korean males go through mandatory military service, ggaemo reached the age and went ACE is for those progamers in the military
anytime should have gone straight for the nat while fanta was in the dark as to how many zeals anytime had but instead went for an engage that started about 30 seconds before his carriers came
On December 28 2010 19:34 darklordjac wrote: Must of been a big boost to confidence for Fantasy seeing how badly hes been failing
indeed. He really really really needed that win
Agreed. Assuming he didn't scout the proxy stargates - and it appeared he just missed them - I thought Fantasy reacted well to create a beach-head and get out enough Gols and turrets to keep Anytime's carriers at bay.
On December 28 2010 19:36 Apex wrote: PerfectManOz Incoming
Perfectman already won -_-
I meant in the fact that PerfectMan will be the ultimate savior of Oz. :p
In other words, a 1-4 loss with only the great PerfectMan getting the victory.
EDIT: Oh it's sHy. Wanted to see him come up in previous games. He wasn't exactly stellar in his MSL group stage against Roro et.al but I think he'll be fine. It's always good to experiment, especially with Oz. That way, Oz can have some support for Jaedong.
Shy is 2-2. This puts his record to be just as good as Suns. Admittedly neither of them have played enough to have any idea how comparable they are though. I guess we'll find out.
On December 28 2010 19:19 baubo wrote: ggaemo's 11-8 this PL season. What are Oz non-Jaedong players' records?
How did they just let him go!?
ggaemo has evolved after leaving hwaseung probably from the fact that he had people other than the #1 zerg and a bunch of scrubs practicing with him T_T
I think the sad part is that there just might be some truths to this. Oz seems to be quite bad when it comes to strategies.
and all korean males go through mandatory military service, ggaemo reached the age and went ACE is for those progamers in the military
I'm quite sure service age isn't rigid, hence why Nada didn't go until very late. If Oz gave ggaemo a spot every match, I'm sure he wouldn't have turned it down.
On December 28 2010 19:46 stormguy85 wrote: Shy is 2-2. This puts his record to be just as good as Suns. Admittedly neither of them have played enough to have any idea how comparable they are though. I guess we'll find out.
so like if you might consider somebody like baby a while ago a diamond in the rough because he definetly had the potential to rock butt but he was rough around the edges
i would consider sun a piece of glass in the rough and shy a rather dried up piece of dog poo yup
On December 28 2010 19:46 stormguy85 wrote: Shy is 2-2. This puts his record to be just as good as Suns. Admittedly neither of them have played enough to have any idea how comparable they are though. I guess we'll find out.
Sun is a rather skilled player who's beaten Shuttle before, with the single weakness of not knowing how to finish a game. I don't think Shy is good.
On December 28 2010 19:46 stormguy85 wrote: Shy is 2-2. This puts his record to be just as good as Suns. Admittedly neither of them have played enough to have any idea how comparable they are though. I guess we'll find out.
Except Sun is already being seen as the early favorite for Rookie of the Year. Not to mention he was being used primarily as a PvP sniper in R1. Sun should win. Even though they're both rookies it would be an upset for Shy to win, when Sun is seemingly much more established.
On December 28 2010 19:46 stormguy85 wrote: Shy is 2-2. This puts his record to be just as good as Suns. Admittedly neither of them have played enough to have any idea how comparable they are though. I guess we'll find out.
Except Sun is already being seen as the early favorite for Rookie of the Year. Not to mention he was being used primarily as a PvP sniper in R1. Sun should win. Even though they're both rookies it would be an upset for Shy to win, when Sun is seemingly much more established.
early favorite huh..? Who are the other rookies he's being matched up against lol
On December 28 2010 19:19 baubo wrote: ggaemo's 11-8 this PL season. What are Oz non-Jaedong players' records?
How did they just let him go!?
ggaemo has evolved after leaving hwaseung probably from the fact that he had people other than the #1 zerg and a bunch of scrubs practicing with him T_T
I think the sad part is that there just might be some truths to this. Oz seems to be quite bad when it comes to strategies.
and all korean males go through mandatory military service, ggaemo reached the age and went ACE is for those progamers in the military
I'm quite sure service age isn't rigid, hence why Nada didn't go until very late. If Oz gave ggaemo a spot every match, I'm sure he wouldn't have turned it down.
nada did not go at all afaik bad eyesight or something
but nowadays it is hard not to go like if you have bad eyes they're like "put on thicker glasses"
you can go as soon as you finish high school if you really want to, but it is delayable by education (college, which is why progamers join the "e-college" or whatever that they have for them in seoul). ggaemo is pretty old , he's like 23 or something and by then you usually go.
On December 28 2010 19:46 stormguy85 wrote: Shy is 2-2. This puts his record to be just as good as Suns. Admittedly neither of them have played enough to have any idea how comparable they are though. I guess we'll find out.
Except Sun is already being seen as the early favorite for Rookie of the Year. Not to mention he was being used primarily as a PvP sniper in R1. Sun should win. Even though they're both rookies it would be an upset for Shy to win, when Sun is seemingly much more established.
early favorite huh..? Who are the other rookies he's being matched up against lol
Anybody else that's being considered a rookie this season? I guess the only really notable other one so far has been TurN. I just remember it being said about Sun by the commentators during one of his or SKT matches.
On December 28 2010 19:54 Lann555 wrote: Bleh. Now Best will have to win a PvZ to avoid an ace. Unless SKT continues their coach-trolling and sends out Canata or something
On December 28 2010 19:56 Apex wrote: Oh shit, I just realized, Oz did NOT send out JESUS. THE MESSIAH STILL HAS A CHANCE TO LEAD OZ TO THE PROMISED LAND.
seriously, lol. he was in prime position to fucking roflstomp that into the ground :[
You mean like ssak was in prime position to fucking roflstomp that into the ground?
Of course, that's the difference between a top protoss and a crappy toss. Players like Bisu or Stork, when using that same build, move their ob in a way to time and detect incoming DTs. It's really an art when it comes to top notch PvP.
seriously, lol. he was in prime position to fucking roflstomp that into the ground :[
You mean like ssak was in prime position to fucking roflstomp that into the ground?
Of course, that's the difference between a top protoss and a crappy toss. Players like Bisu or Stork, when using that same build, move their ob in a way to time and detect incoming DTs. It's really an art when it comes to top notch PvP.
hmm but in Bloody Ridge there are 3 different paths the DTs can take.. and the chokes to the nat and main are pretty large. I think DTs are pretty strong on Bloody Ridge, dunno why we don't see them more often
seriously, lol. he was in prime position to fucking roflstomp that into the ground :[
You mean like ssak was in prime position to fucking roflstomp that into the ground?
Of course, that's the difference between a top protoss and a crappy toss. Players like Bisu or Stork, when using that same build, move their ob in a way to time and detect incoming DTs. It's really an art when it comes to top notch PvP.
hmm but in Bloody Ridge there are 3 different paths the DTs can take.. and the chokes to the nat and main are pretty large. I think DTs are pretty strong on Bloody Ridge, dunno why we don't see them more often
Obviously pathing is one thing, but timing seems to be another one.
Also, I believe Sun didn't cancel his reaver upon first seeing dt to make an ob. There was some seriously messed up timing issues here. If he thought the first ob can make it back in time, he was obviously mistaken.
Edit: Best vs Zerg? Here's hoping for some corsair fail into Bisu vs Jaedong Ace match.
On December 28 2010 20:05 yoonyoon wrote: Being an OZ fan is probably the most depressing this season =[
Funny thing is, OZ would have had a chance to take this 4:2 if JD had won...considering that he was usually the only one to score this must be really annoying.
On December 28 2010 20:08 arew wrote: Best will win this, I do not see him losing this. SKT1 should 4-2 OZ. Otherwise it would be nice to see Bisu/Best/Fantasy playing JD in the ace match.
On December 28 2010 20:08 arew wrote: Best will win this, I do not see him losing this. SKT1 should 4-2 OZ. Otherwise it would be nice to see Bisu/Best/Fantasy playing JD in the ace match.
Probably Bisu seeing how Fantasy hasn't been doing great, Best PvZ is a pass and Bisu can take on Jaedong on good days
On December 28 2010 20:09 Vuk_91 wrote: wtf was that probe doing there for 2 minutes?
it was waiting for the usual zerg stealing another natural for sim city etc like princess unwittingly (or wittingly?) took his third at the backdoor instead and thus wasted that relatively early probe's mining time i wonder how he will deal with best's likely zealot timing
Well, I've mentioned Best just because it would be nice to see him playing an ace match. Of course his chances against JD is poor, unless he has a superb BO against him But there won't be any ace match, once it will be 4-2 in favor of SKT1
On December 28 2010 20:14 radadaundandan wrote: well koreans are dum sometimes... doesn't princess see that all the cannons are held by only 1 pylon? zomg
derp look beside it and picking off single cannons is much quicker and produces a much more immediate effect especially against reavers lol
On December 28 2010 20:14 _Quasar_ wrote: Princess needs to research drop and this is over
what are with some of these suggestions why go drop against a toss that is banking on his sairs and reavers to win
you lose your dropping ovies and thus your hydras lurks lings you lose your advantage and get rolled by sair reaver you do manage to drop and you have 4 reavers waiting for your unloading hydras you lose your advantage and get rolled by sair reaver
That was amazing flank by Princess O_O he almost did it. Seems like he has improved a lot once I saw him playing last time. Still, Best has to take this.
On December 28 2010 20:14 radadaundandan wrote: well koreans are dum sometimes... doesn't princess see that all the cannons are held by only 1 pylon? zomg
There wasn't very much danger of Best losing, he was pretty much two gate all in (and Best can macro correctly) and Princess spent a lot of $$$ and time on pure units throughout the whole game so his economy wasn't fantastic.
The minute Princess traded his army to take down 3/4 of Best's army (and only one of real damage dealers at the end of the battle), he lost because there's no way you can reinforce fast enough to stop pure zealots, some remaining dragoons, and a reaver.
He had mutas over the toss army and hydra/ling surrounding the toss army from three sites, and he loses the battle. It's hard to tell, because the fight was so big you couldn't catch all of it. But in my opinion Princess just mismicroed there. For example, the mutas should have soften up those reavers before they died, those mutas were really expensive for just killing 3-4 templars. And as usual, Best was on top of his macro, and he had great positioning for sure.
Overall, not a bad series by SKT though. All the big names take their games and maybe this will unslump Fantasy a bit and start another sick winstreak!
On December 28 2010 20:21 radadaundandan wrote: biggest fail of the night
Why?
if he had sniped the Reavers he would've won fsho
best had some good zealot placement, and with some good non-dudding reaver shots he cleared most of the hydras that princess did order to snipe the reavers
and i would hardly call that the biggest fail of the night, rather a good play by best
and nothing was nearly so fail as killer and s2 tonigh
Man, nothing's ever easy for our team nowadays. Anyway, I enjoyed tonight's matches - they weren't always of the highest quality, but there were some fun moments in them nevertheless.
Well played Oz and gl in the Winners League. JD will bounce back - he always does.
On December 28 2010 20:21 radadaundandan wrote: biggest fail of the night
Why?
if he had sniped the Reavers he would've won fsho
best had some good zealot placement, and with some good non-dudding reaver shots he cleared most of the hydras that princess did order to snipe the reavers
and i would hardly call that the biggest fail of the night, rather a good play by best
and nothing was nearly so fail as killer and s2 tonigh
On December 28 2010 20:25 Malinor wrote: He had mutas over the toss army and hydra/ling surrounding the toss army from three sites, and he loses the battle. It's hard to tell, because the fight was so big you couldn't catch all of it. But in my opinion Princess just mismicroed badly there. For example, the mutas should have soften up those reavers before they died, those mutas were really expensive just for killing 3-4 templars. And as usual, Best was on top of his macro.
Too bad, would have loved to see an ace match.
the mutas over the toss army is before the surround and the number of lings were insignificant
mutas killed 4 templar with 1-2 storms each and brings the shuttle to red which leads to it being picked off immediately in the fight a very good use of 6 muta when you consider those templar could kill all the hydra in the fight with their storms alone, and considering a dragoon heavy army compo's dependence on storm vs hydra surrounds getting rid of the reaver's mobility is usually more important than dealing an extra 60 damage on a reaver especially when the protoss is decent
if you were watching final moments of the engage, those moments were when princess should have won the fight but his micro slipped for a moment (he didn't use any more than the initial hydras he had clicked on the reavers to snipe them, which were subsequently sniped with good micro by best) and thus lost the game
Why does Jaedong always lose against the top players in proleague? He always loses to Light, Bisu and Stork in PL but beats them in BoX matches. I haven't watched the game but it sounded like he used that same overpool into 4base turtle into hive build that he's been using in every single ZvP these days. He was bound to get punished for it one of these days.
On December 28 2010 20:21 radadaundandan wrote: biggest fail of the night
Why?
if he had sniped the Reavers he would've won fsho
best had some good zealot placement, and with some good non-dudding reaver shots he cleared most of the hydras that princess did order to snipe the reavers
and i would hardly call that the biggest fail of the night, rather a good play by best
and nothing was nearly so fail as killer and s2 tonigh
Sun vs sHy? haha
sHy could have easily been justified in sending his obs out since he was making a unit wall at his nat if he was building a second obs immediately because it would have popped out in time but he made a reaver instantly instead of a second obs which is pretty dumb, didn't he scout out the templar archives before hand?
On December 28 2010 20:31 DarkMatter_ wrote: Why does Jaedong always lose against the top players in proleague? He always loses to Light, Bisu and Stork in PL but beats them in BoX matches. I haven't watched the game but it sounded like he used that same overpool into 4base turtle into hive build that he's been using in every single ZvP these days. He was bound to get punished for it one of these days.
they prepare more for him than he for them its easier to do so when JD is the only real threat for a top player than is the opposing team's aces
On December 28 2010 20:25 Malinor wrote: He had mutas over the toss army and hydra/ling surrounding the toss army from three sites, and he loses the battle. It's hard to tell, because the fight was so big you couldn't catch all of it. But in my opinion Princess just mismicroed badly there. For example, the mutas should have soften up those reavers before they died, those mutas were really expensive just for killing 3-4 templars. And as usual, Best was on top of his macro.
Too bad, would have loved to see an ace match.
the mutas over the toss army is before the surround and the number of lings were insignificant
mutas killed 4 templar with 1-2 storms each and brings the shuttle to red which leads to it being picked off immediately in the fight a very good use of 6 muta when you consider those templar could kill all the hydra in the fight with their storms alone, and considering a dragoon heavy army compo's dependence on storm vs hydra surrounds getting rid of the reaver's mobility is usually more important than dealing an extra 60 damage on a reaver especially when the protoss is decent
if you were watching final moments of the engage, those moments were when princess should have won the fight but his micro slipped for a moment (he didn't use any more than the initial hydras he had clicked on the reavers to snipe them, which were subsequently sniped with good micro by best) and thus lost the game
Would have to watch the fight again to be sure, but yeah, his micro in the end of the batle wasn't good and he needed to get rid of this reaper, with the shuttle gone, that would have bought him some time. He also was really low on lurkers, which of course is logical against goon/reaver, but he probably should have had 2-3 more to be prepared for a zlot switch.
Anyway, the bolded part, I'm sure it was more than 6 mutas, at least 9.
Sun losing PvP is the only fail this series cuz it's his strongest matchup in the future. Both rookies lose and monsters win except JD offcourse and if he got any other player he could easily take a win.
Shame the Bisu-JD game didn't live up to their previous game on Judgement Day, but after almost 6 months dodging each other it's just good to see them play.
Hiya must be slumping fucking hardcore. No way that he is skipping PL practice over OSL if his interviews were any indication. You know you are bad when Perfectman and Princess are much more valuable to the team than you.
Shit, Princess, how could you lose that vs WorSt.... =(( You had this and then suicided all units =__= Just kill reavers then make 23457868726578 lings and keep muta sniping templar/reaver... =\ Seriously, 2 base protoss vs. Sauron Zerg? That's a joke vs 4 bases =\
Though, honestly, I think Jaedong would lose to Bisu again. =__=
On December 29 2010 01:46 _Quasar_ wrote: Shit, Princess, how could you lose that vs WorSt.... =(( You had this and then suicided all units =__= Just kill reavers then make 23457868726578 lings and keep muta sniping templar/reaver... =\ Seriously, 2 base protoss vs. Sauron Zerg? That's a joke vs 4 bases =\
Though, honestly, I think Jaedong would lose to Bisu again. =__=
WorSt made 926562462322545454646545 zealots so it wouldn't work. He is a BeaSt after all.
To follow-up on NrG.GoD-'s post, it seems that Bisu's air weapons was a fake. Craton's overlay blocked our view the core when the game observer focused on it later in the game, but presumably it was to show that it had stopped spinning prematurely, as Bisu didn't have +1 air weapons at the end of the game
On December 29 2010 01:46 _Quasar_ wrote: Shit, Princess, how could you lose that vs WorSt.... =(( You had this and then suicided all units =__= Just kill reavers then make 23457868726578 lings and keep muta sniping templar/reaver... =\ Seriously, 2 base protoss vs. Sauron Zerg? That's a joke vs 4 bases =\
Though, honestly, I think Jaedong would lose to Bisu again. =__=
WorSt made 926562462322545454646545 zealots so it wouldn't work. He is a BeaSt after all.
you can't make 93894759238457283045789 zealots at the time faster than what Zerg needs to build 4 x 93894759238457283045789 lings ^_^
Btw, I'm glad streamers are starting to take advantage of stream site's on demand feature.
Awesome thanks for the link! And thanks Craton for recording! Completely forgot about it this evening, went for a run then when i came back i was like FUUUU seeing Bisu vs Jaedong game. Wanted to watch this so badly.
On December 29 2010 02:19 Deekin[ wrote: I couldnt even in my Fantasy have seen Bisu being able to BeStJaedong like the Protoss KillerJaedong is. And he isnt sHy about it at all. Honestly Anytime else than this time he would have lost like the Princess he is. Jaedong is a PerfectMan normally. He will beat Bisu with a PureHydraOnly build the next time. It will be a greatGame. Almost like a Calm ActionMovie. The End
agreed. Why the fuck you play 4 early bases with almost no units vs a toss that is famous for his aggression... =((
It seems that Jaedong has to collect all of possible strategic stupid fails in one season. Hope that helps not to fail more... =\ Or it's just a mental state (not best, definitely. X_X )
IMHO Stork overtakes #2 at power rank this time. JD got to lose this - he loses to almost all decent opponents. =(
On December 29 2010 02:19 Deekin[ wrote: I couldnt even in my Fantasy have seen Bisu being able to BeStJaedong like the Protoss KillerJaedong is. And he isnt sHy about it at all. Honestly Anytime else than this time he would have lost like the Princess he is. Jaedong is a PerfectMan normally. He will beat Bisu with a PureHydraOnly build the next time. It will be a greatGame. Almost like a Calm ActionMovie. The End
I'm terrified to read the thread, can someone please PM me a link to Jaedong vs Bisu if one's available (on wfbrood or whatnot, I checked all the yt channels I can think of)? Many thanks Found it:
On December 29 2010 06:59 n.DieJokes wrote: I'm terrified to read the thread, can someone please PM me a link to Jaedong vs Bisu if one's available (on wfbrood or whatnot, I checked all the yt channels I can think of)? Many thanks
On December 29 2010 02:04 Zona wrote: To follow-up on NrG.GoD-'s post, it seems that Bisu's air weapons was a fake. Craton's overlay blocked our view the core when the game observer focused on it later in the game, but presumably it was to show that it had stopped spinning prematurely, as Bisu didn't have +1 air weapons at the end of the game
Yup, NrG. God- is pretty damn good. The core did stop spinning prematurely, and Jaedong did exactly as NrG. God said, he upgraded +1 armor to try to take over air dominance and stall until hive tech.
On December 29 2010 02:04 Zona wrote: To follow-up on NrG.GoD-'s post, it seems that Bisu's air weapons was a fake. Craton's overlay blocked our view the core when the game observer focused on it later in the game, but presumably it was to show that it had stopped spinning prematurely, as Bisu didn't have +1 air weapons at the end of the game
Bisu actually had +1 air weapons at the end. You can see it after his sairs kill the mass of scourge in jd's main (near the end of the game).
On December 29 2010 02:04 Zona wrote: To follow-up on NrG.GoD-'s post, it seems that Bisu's air weapons was a fake. Craton's overlay blocked our view the core when the game observer focused on it later in the game, but presumably it was to show that it had stopped spinning prematurely, as Bisu didn't have +1 air weapons at the end of the game
Bisu actually had +1 air weapons at the end. You can see it after his sairs kill the mass of scourge in jd's main (near the end of the game).
you're right...going over the lower-res recording again, one can see the core spinning again about 9 minutes into the game. It's so hard to see small numbers at that resolution.
But the air weapons that JD scouted right after spire with scourge was a fake, the an investment into legs was made instead.
A fake Sair/DT build is good against Jaedong, but I hope he won't do something similar to Shine, since the only thing Shine will do is to ignore all scouting information and make hydras or mutas for an all-in push. Trying to play mind game with him will not yield good results.
Bisu seems to be able to pull zealots out of his ass. That's all I can say for game 1.
I was wondering why Jaedong was so unprepared for the Zealot break.
Seems Bisu decided to play tricky, and didn't even upgrade +1 attack for the Zealot timing push.. I think that's why he was able to rape the ground and air at the same time.
No +1 air or +1 weapons, made his timing attack come so much quicker
On December 29 2010 10:30 NguN wrote: I was wondering why Jaedong was so unprepared for the Zealot break.
Seems Bisu decided to play tricky, and didn't even upgrade +1 attack for the Zealot timing push.. I think that's why he was able to rape the ground and air at the same time.
No +1 air or +1 weapons, made his timing attack come so much quicker
It wasn't tricky he had +1 air and +1 ground when he attacked. Bisu's initial sairs and dts set Jaedong very far behind. I don't know if he planned to have lurkers or mutas or more sunken/spore when Bisu attacked but he clearly did not have enough, but Bisu's timing seemed pretty standard he saw an opening and won.
Taking out a game played in the KeSPA cup and a Proleague All-Stars match (both of which Bisu won) Bisu has a 5-1 record (83%) vs. Jaedong in Proleague. Seems like he has won so many memorable ace matches vs. him too. Last (and only) time he lost to Jaedong in Proleague was in 2008.
Has always been a big disappointment to me those two didn't meet in OSL/MSL Bo5 series back during their peaks.
On December 29 2010 06:59 n.DieJokes wrote: I'm terrified to read the thread, can someone please PM me a link to Jaedong vs Bisu if one's available (on wfbrood or whatnot, I checked all the yt channels I can think of)? Many thanks
I come back home tired as usual from work, and then see the results of SKT winning their last game...
SKT STILL TOP DOG HEYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~ And SUP FBB VICTORY~ |DDD
Now to hope that MBC won't be too mad at T1 for crushing them the other day and will pull off a win against Hentus tonight After all, we do still keep their former golden boy Bisu in tip-top shape ;D
On December 29 2010 10:30 NguN wrote: I was wondering why Jaedong was so unprepared for the Zealot break.
Seems Bisu decided to play tricky, and didn't even upgrade +1 attack for the Zealot timing push.. I think that's why he was able to rape the ground and air at the same time.
No +1 air or +1 weapons, made his timing attack come so much quicker
It wasn't tricky he had +1 air and +1 ground when he attacked. Bisu's initial sairs and dts set Jaedong very far behind. I don't know if he planned to have lurkers or mutas or more sunken/spore when Bisu attacked but he clearly did not have enough, but Bisu's timing seemed pretty standard he saw an opening and won.
That was the final battle. I'm talking about the first 5 zealots that went for the 3rd, with only the leg upgrade. Same with the corsairs, no +1 on them.
In the final break, he then had a +1 air/+1 weapons
but wouldn't Jaedong be able to defend all this amount of protoss shit if he went normal 5 hatch build, instead of fking 6-hatching and being greedy as hell?... =(
On December 28 2010 18:46 Lann555 wrote: Ssak should really never ever ever be played again. That might have been the dumbest decision I have ever seen in 10 years of watching BW. Why the hell cancel the ebay for the academy when you know the archives is done already? WHy WHY WHY?
I think that he assumed Perfectman would abandon the strategy for some reason.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8295/protobanner.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mGzLh.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/11.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/1.png){kind=icon}
SK Telecom T1 vs Hwaseung OZ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/11.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/237_Fighting%20Spirit_thumbnail.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/g5u8y.png)
Bisu < Aztec > 
Jaedong
Ssak < Circuit Breaker > ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wKK2p.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lZAHM.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1MQ8H.jpg)
Gotta watch VOD after. 
![[image loading]](http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/7834/bisujd2.gif)
