Please Ace, this is one you can win with just a very small amount of luck. Killer and Spear can be beaten, no problem, and hopefully RuBy can fluke a win against JD or take it in the closer.
It all depends on Reach though - if he doesn't win the first set I foresee a swift 0-3 loss.
On December 16 2009 10:57 p4NDemik wrote: Please Ace, this is one you can win with just a very small amount of luck. Killer and Spear can be beaten, no problem, and hopefully RuBy can fluke a win against JD or take it in the closer.
It all depends on Reach though - if he doesn't win the first set I foresee a swift 0-3 loss.
if ruby wins it will be no fluke. He can beat jaedong straight up even without mech. Jaedong is a favorite but not by much as everyone thinks. They met twice and the first time they met jaedong lost straight up. Second game was bad building placement and ruby lost. Ruby has the same chances of taking a game off jaedong as much as fantasy, sea, hwasin and flash does.
On December 16 2009 10:57 p4NDemik wrote: Please Ace, this is one you can win with just a very small amount of luck. Killer and Spear can be beaten, no problem, and hopefully RuBy can fluke a win against JD or take it in the closer.
It all depends on Reach though - if he doesn't win the first set I foresee a swift 0-3 loss.
if ruby wins it will be no fluke. He can beat jaedong straight up even without mech. Jaedong is a favorite but not by much as everyone thinks. They met twice and the first time they met jaedong lost straight up. Second game was bad building placement and ruby lost. Ruby has the same chances of taking a game off jaedong as much as fantasy, sea, hwasin and flash does.
lol what?
can we take a moment to consider that jaedong is 14-2 in his last 16 games? and that in his entire career, ruby only has one win against s-class zvt? (effort. yarnc's zvt recently can't even be called a-class) and now ruby has the same chance to take a game off jaedong as FLASH? i'd like some of what you're smoking.
i'm not doubting that ruby can beat jaedong straight up. but wow......
Yeah i knew writing that was going to catch some fire. Even if ruby loses it doesnt actually prove my point wrong because time has proven ruby gets inconsistent sometimes like his series vs hero and that tau cross game vs yarnc. Im just saying his chances are pretty close with the rest of the top 5 tvzers.
lawl ruby has the same chances as hwasin the red sniper, and flash the TvZ monster who has gone 18-2 in the last 20 TvZs? this same ruby who lost to gatorade zerg and minesweeper zerg?
On December 16 2009 11:27 Harem wrote: Just hope for either a really good bio tvz between them, no matter who wins.
Or a game where JD crushes the hell out of Ruby's mech so hard that Ruby never mechs again.
Edit: ilz, it's technically 2-1 jd btw
oh never even knew the two played on tau cross. Who is minesweeper zerg? Flash and hwasin are more consistent than ruby. So maybe i exagerrated in that he has the exact same chances. But i still think its pretty close.
On December 16 2009 11:29 aznanimedude wrote: lawl ruby has the same chances as hwasin the red sniper, and flash the TvZ monster who has gone 18-2 in the last 20 TvZs? this same ruby who lost to gatorade zerg and minesweeper zerg?
maybe
If Ruby comes into this fully prepared and brings his A game then yeah he does.
On December 16 2009 11:34 EvoChamber wrote: Ruby is to TvZ what type-b is to ZvT: criminally underrated.
Yeah i agree. A lot people look at just stats. They dont look at the games. Zero when he first started went like 0-5 vs terran. If you just look at stats hogil looks terrible at zvt. But the games ive seen of him he played really well. Zergs have seemed to have gotten a lot better at zvt vs bio.
On December 16 2009 11:29 aznanimedude wrote: lawl ruby has the same chances as hwasin the red sniper, and flash the TvZ monster who has gone 18-2 in the last 20 TvZs? this same ruby who lost to gatorade zerg and minesweeper zerg?
maybe
If Ruby comes into this fully prepared and brings his A game then yeah he does.
No, he doesnt. Ruby's tvz is quite good, but its not that good, period. Jaedong is going to rip shit on ruby barring the weird possibility of a fluke mistake on his part. Even if ruby wins straight up, having confidence in his tvz to rival the confidence you have in Flash' or hwasn's tvz is just deluded.
On December 16 2009 11:34 EvoChamber wrote: Ruby is to TvZ what type-b is to ZvT: criminally underrated.
Yea except ruby is more skillful..I say this if there is one thing MBC Terrans can do, its TvZ, even kkong had good TvZ, thats probably all he really had...but I digress Ruby vs Jaedong would have been great if firefist didnt 4 pool him and get super lucky. This wouldve been a cool pre-series showdown, alas it was not to be.If its not lame protoss ruining things by making terrible groups, its lame zergs laming their way to victory, what has this world come to?
edit: Hwasin isnt playing that well lately anyway, and in all honesty Ruby and Light are comparable to Hwasin in TvZ.
On December 16 2009 11:27 Harem wrote: Just hope for either a really good bio tvz between them, no matter who wins.
Or a game where JD crushes the hell out of Ruby's mech so hard that Ruby never mechs again.
Edit: ilz, it's technically 2-1 jd btw
oh never even knew the two played on tau cross. Who is minesweeper zerg? Flash and hwasin are more consistent than ruby. So maybe i exagerrated in that he has the exact same chances. But i still think its pretty close.
On December 16 2009 11:29 aznanimedude wrote: lawl ruby has the same chances as hwasin the red sniper, and flash the TvZ monster who has gone 18-2 in the last 20 TvZs? this same ruby who lost to gatorade zerg and minesweeper zerg?
maybe
If Ruby comes into this fully prepared and brings his A game then yeah he does.
No, he doesnt. Ruby's tvz is quite good, but its not that good, period. Jaedong is going to rip shit on ruby barring the weird possibility of a fluke mistake on his part. Even if ruby wins straight up, having confidence in his tvz to rival the confidence you have in Flash' or hwasn's tvz is just deluded.
His games do show questionable decision making at times but in raw ability i think hes there with flash. His vs z games on andromeda in proleague really looked like flash/sea playing. I hope he bounces back from the game vs firefist. The one thing that i would say is ruby's biggest weakness is hes a really emotional player. When he loses i can tell it really effects him. When he lost a series vs hero he went on a slump. And when he messed up his simcity vs jaedong he really looked upset.
Hwaseung's line-up is very strong. Killer, JD and Hiya are all playing pretty good. I'm curious about Spear though, been a long time since I last saw him play.
On December 16 2009 11:29 aznanimedude wrote: lawl ruby has the same chances as hwasin the red sniper, and flash the TvZ monster who has gone 18-2 in the last 20 TvZs? this same ruby who lost to gatorade zerg and minesweeper zerg?
maybe
If Ruby comes into this fully prepared and brings his A game then yeah he does.
No, he doesnt. Ruby's tvz is quite good, but its not that good, period. Jaedong is going to rip shit on ruby barring the weird possibility of a fluke mistake on his part. Even if ruby wins straight up, having confidence in his tvz to rival the confidence you have in Flash' or hwasn's tvz is just deluded.
His games do show questionable decision making at times but in raw ability i think hes there with flash. His vs z games on andromeda in proleague really looked like flash/sea playing. I hope he bounces back from the game vs firefist. The one thing that i would say is ruby's biggest weakness is hes a really emotional player. When he loses i can tell it really effects him. When he lost a series vs hero he went on a slump. And when he messed up his simcity vs jaedong he really looked upset.
That I agree. Ruby has ALWAYS looked like a player that [in every mu at that, just most noticeably against zerg] could break out and become a top terran. Unfortunately he never did on MBC, and I think the pressure of being an ace player before hes ready- on a trash team- will grind him down until hes as bad as the others.
Ruby is, in my eyes, a tragic element of progaming.
I don't know, I didn't feel that worried. Whenever one of Jaedong's hatches were taken down, one of Ruby's two mining bases was halted. And after awhile, Ruby never managed to threaten to end the game with his large army.
Wow Ruby played really well. He has such a good sense of what he has to do to make sure he doesn't lose map control through drops and proper troop movement. If he had the finesse to make the most out of his small groups of units he could be a really strong player (some better micro when he split his forces this game could have won him the game).
...stupid zergs winning without doing anything... macromacro 1a2a3a4a..etc... oh look I have this spell that makes none of ur shit work but all of my shit still works, how convenient \ anger
That game was perfect text book TvZ It was an honor to watch it. Ruby has some scary scary TvZ right now! He played really really well i am so impressed. Jaedong on the other had played so brilliantly the entire game, perfect cloud, and i loved that he held of on ultras till his bases were staturated. Jeez that game was so perfect. I am down loading it as soon as I can, so i can watch all the time. Best game i have seen in some time.
After this game i am almost worried for Jaedong vs Flash. Not to say that jaedong is bad or anything, but flash is going to be ruby on steroids. Anyone else think that rubys tvz (this game) is only below flash?
Damn im still in awe of such a great game. I give massive props to both players a great show!
On December 16 2009 14:07 HwangjaeTerran wrote: ...stupid zergs winning without doing anything... macromacro 1a2a3a4a..etc... oh look I have this spell that makes none of ur shit work but all of my shit still works, how convenient \ anger
Seeing Terrans lose really is so hard.
Haha, how angry can dark swarm make you when you have irradiate? It's a basic yin yang situation.
Good game, but almost too close for my liking. I didn't expect Ruby to put up such a fight. Let's hope JD refines his ZvT even more before his match against Flash.
On December 16 2009 14:07 HwangjaeTerran wrote: ...stupid zergs winning without doing anything... macromacro 1a2a3a4a..etc... oh look I have this spell that makes none of ur shit work but all of my shit still works, how convenient \ anger
Seeing Terrans lose really is so hard.
yeah um no.
Terran has such a ridiculous advantage until hive tech it's not even funny.
Yeah, after watching this game im more confident for Flash. But Im also more confident it will be an epic series of games rather than a walk over. I mean, this just helps accurately gauge jd's zvt which hasnt been capable lately, and I think he wont be able to match Flash in the late game like he did Ruby. Time will tell, obv.
On December 16 2009 14:10 zdubius wrote: Good game, but almost too close for my liking. I didn't expect Ruby to put up such a fight. Let's hope JD refines his ZvT even more before his match against Flash.
tbh I don't know how much better flash can do. Watching that game, there were VERY few things Ruby did wrong, and many many things he did perfectly.
I think when Ruby was just concentrating on one force, he was playing near-perfect, but his multitasking was lacking. I guess that's where Flash is better, but if past JD/Flash games tell us anything it's that JD still has better multitasking.
On December 16 2009 14:07 HwangjaeTerran wrote: ...stupid zergs winning without doing anything... macromacro 1a2a3a4a..etc... oh look I have this spell that makes none of ur shit work but all of my shit still works, how convenient \ anger
Seeing Terrans lose really is so hard.
LOL you do realize that zvt is the most imbalanced match up right? you also realize that once you get your first vessle out- zerg cannot attack you ball, because doing so would be certain death with out cloud? You also realize that until cloud comes out- terran have control of the entire game?
Ohh wait lets not forget your steel cloud of sci vessles that can irrad everything in sight, and kill everything on zergs unit sheet except for ultra for a piddly 75 mana. Also sci vessles are freaking fast, and always surrounded by M&M which are so cost effective and have such a high DPS that it's freaking insane?
On December 16 2009 14:07 HwangjaeTerran wrote: ...stupid zergs winning without doing anything... macromacro 1a2a3a4a..etc... oh look I have this spell that makes none of ur shit work but all of my shit still works, how convenient \ anger
Seeing Terrans lose really is so hard.
LOL you do realize that zvt is the most imbalanced match up right? you also realize that once you get your first vessle out- zerg cannot attack you ball, because doing so would be certain death with out cloud? You also realize that until cloud comes out- terran have control of the entire game?
Ohh wait lets not forget your steel cloud of sci vessles that can irrad everything in sight, and kill everything on zergs unit sheet except for ultra for a piddly 75 mana. Also sci vessles are freaking fast, and always surrounded by M&M which are so cost effective and have such a high DPS that it's freaking insane?
But hey- cloud is so imbalanced >.>
Dark swarm is so imba it almost makes TvZ balanced.
On December 16 2009 14:11 yhnmk wrote: Yeah, after watching this game im more confident for Flash. But Im also more confident it will be an epic series of games rather than a walk over. I mean, this just helps accurately gauge jd's zvt which hasnt been capable lately, and I think he wont be able to match Flash in the late game like he did Ruby. Time will tell, obv.
I actually think the games flash will win vs jaedong will be from some mech/bio mech strat while the games he loses will be bio.
On December 16 2009 14:07 HwangjaeTerran wrote: ...stupid zergs winning without doing anything... macromacro 1a2a3a4a..etc... oh look I have this spell that makes none of ur shit work but all of my shit still works, how convenient \ anger
Seeing Terrans lose really is so hard.
LOL you do realize that zvt is the most imbalanced match up right? you also realize that once you get your first vessle out- zerg cannot attack you ball, because doing so would be certain death with out cloud? You also realize that until cloud comes out- terran have control of the entire game?
Ohh wait lets not forget your steel cloud of sci vessles that can irrad everything in sight, and kill everything on zergs unit sheet except for ultra for a piddly 75 mana. Also sci vessles are freaking fast, and always surrounded by M&M which are so cost effective and have such a high DPS that it's freaking insane?
But hey- cloud is so imbalanced >.>
Dark swarm is so imba it almost makes TvZ balanced.
The mantra of Flash fanboys : "Hyun beating Flash only means Flash will be more ready for JD. JD beating a very strong Ruby in a close game means JD has no chance against Flash."
On December 16 2009 14:17 lixlix wrote: The mantra of Flash fanboys : "Hyun beating Flash only means Flash will be more ready for JD. JD beating a very strong Ruby in a close game means JD has no chance against Flash."
But Flash could have just built turrets in his main line, it's not like Jaedong could've done something like build sunkens at his expos to negate drops or anything.
On December 16 2009 14:18 Waxangel wrote: meh, those lings could have tried a runby or a CC building SCV kill with a single marine bunker
On December 16 2009 14:07 HwangjaeTerran wrote: ...stupid zergs winning without doing anything... macromacro 1a2a3a4a..etc... oh look I have this spell that makes none of ur shit work but all of my shit still works, how convenient \ anger
Seeing Terrans lose really is so hard.
LOL you do realize that zvt is the most imbalanced match up right? you also realize that once you get your first vessle out- zerg cannot attack you ball, because doing so would be certain death with out cloud? You also realize that until cloud comes out- terran have control of the entire game?
Ohh wait lets not forget your steel cloud of sci vessles that can irrad everything in sight, and kill everything on zergs unit sheet except for ultra for a piddly 75 mana. Also sci vessles are freaking fast, and always surrounded by M&M which are so cost effective and have such a high DPS that it's freaking insane?
But hey- cloud is so imbalanced >.>
Dark swarm is so imba it almost makes TvZ balanced.
On December 16 2009 14:11 yhnmk wrote: Yeah, after watching this game im more confident for Flash. But Im also more confident it will be an epic series of games rather than a walk over. I mean, this just helps accurately gauge jd's zvt which hasnt been capable lately, and I think he wont be able to match Flash in the late game like he did Ruby. Time will tell, obv.
I actually think the games flash will win vs jaedong will be from some mech/bio mech strat while the games he loses will be bio.
im expecting a completly straight up series but oh well, we'll see...
On December 16 2009 14:07 HwangjaeTerran wrote: ...stupid zergs winning without doing anything... macromacro 1a2a3a4a..etc... oh look I have this spell that makes none of ur shit work but all of my shit still works, how convenient \ anger
Seeing Terrans lose really is so hard.
LOL you do realize that zvt is the most imbalanced match up right? you also realize that once you get your first vessle out- zerg cannot attack you ball, because doing so would be certain death with out cloud? You also realize that until cloud comes out- terran have control of the entire game?
Ohh wait lets not forget your steel cloud of sci vessles that can irrad everything in sight, and kill everything on zergs unit sheet except for ultra for a piddly 75 mana. Also sci vessles are freaking fast, and always surrounded by M&M which are so cost effective and have such a high DPS that it's freaking insane?
But hey- cloud is so imbalanced >.>
Dark swarm is so imba it almost makes TvZ balanced.
Think i read somewhere on TL which said if Kong's early game is disrupted he falls apart because he lost his sense of timings mid-lategame? Maybe a case of that here :O?
I haven't watched StarCraft in 6 months and I come back to see ACE get 3-0ed. At least some things stay constant, one thing fewer to catch up on I suppose.
On December 16 2009 14:27 HwangjaeTerran wrote: NO WAY Magikarp forgot SPLASH
Magikarp learned to PLAY
hiya has actually been pretty consistant this season, I think that win puts him at 7-4 now.
anyways, 3-0 oz!!! the supporting cast is starting to look stronger and stronger. only downside is that we didn't get to see if spear learned how to play starcraft yet.
You guys do realize that Jaedong could've easily prevented Ruby from taking out bases by sparing a few lings with static defense, but he didn't feel the need to. The dude was sandbagging.
On December 16 2009 15:35 NovaTheFeared wrote: TLPD answers those kinds of questions.
Ruby: 23-13 (63.89%) 2179 TvZ ELO Hyun: 12-11 (52.17%) 2050 ZvT ELO
By stats alone Ruby's TvZ is quite good, whereas Hyun's ZvT is at best mediocre.
stats dont show how good a player is. The context of the games do. If you saw hyun's game list he has taken games off good tvz players like hwasin. And the game was straight up.
On December 16 2009 15:35 NovaTheFeared wrote: TLPD answers those kinds of questions.
Ruby: 23-13 (63.89%) 2179 TvZ ELO Hyun: 12-11 (52.17%) 2050 ZvT ELO
By stats alone Ruby's TvZ is quite good, whereas Hyun's ZvT is at best mediocre.
stats dont show how good a player is. The context of the games do. If you saw hyun's game list he has taken games off good tvz players like hwasin. And the game was straight up.
And Ruby took games off awesome ZvT players and he won against mediocre opponents too. Your point?
On December 16 2009 15:35 NovaTheFeared wrote: TLPD answers those kinds of questions.
Ruby: 23-13 (63.89%) 2179 TvZ ELO Hyun: 12-11 (52.17%) 2050 ZvT ELO
By stats alone Ruby's TvZ is quite good, whereas Hyun's ZvT is at best mediocre.
stats dont show how good a player is. The context of the games do. If you saw hyun's game list he has taken games off good tvz players like hwasin. And the game was straight up.
And Ruby took games off awesome ZvT players and he won against mediocre opponents too. Your point?
Your average decent tvz player is always better than your average decent zvt player =p According to tlpd elo stats Ruby is currently the eigth best tvz player while hyun is the 12th best zvt player. Fairly comparable imo.
On December 16 2009 15:35 NovaTheFeared wrote: TLPD answers those kinds of questions.
Ruby: 23-13 (63.89%) 2179 TvZ ELO Hyun: 12-11 (52.17%) 2050 ZvT ELO
By stats alone Ruby's TvZ is quite good, whereas Hyun's ZvT is at best mediocre.
stats dont show how good a player is. The context of the games do. If you saw hyun's game list he has taken games off good tvz players like hwasin. And the game was straight up.
And Ruby took games off awesome ZvT players and he won against mediocre opponents too. Your point?
Your average decent tvz player is always better than your average decent zvt player =p According to tlpd elo stats Ruby is currently the eigth best tvz player while hyun is the 12th best zvt player. Fairly comparable imo.
On December 16 2009 15:35 NovaTheFeared wrote: TLPD answers those kinds of questions.
Ruby: 23-13 (63.89%) 2179 TvZ ELO Hyun: 12-11 (52.17%) 2050 ZvT ELO
By stats alone Ruby's TvZ is quite good, whereas Hyun's ZvT is at best mediocre.
stats dont show how good a player is. The context of the games do. If you saw hyun's game list he has taken games off good tvz players like hwasin. And the game was straight up.
Oh he's taken a game off hwasin? This means that he's right up there with the likes of TheZerg. Amazing!
Killer Opponent is Reach, Lucifer.... I thought Lucifer would win, I saw how he get a free drone kill at starting. Just feel that Killer is vegetable. But Lucifer is more vegetable!!!
So unlucky, Killer got 4 win streak! I hope it ends on week 3. I decided to put killer @ anti team! I hope he do badly this time.
On December 16 2009 15:35 NovaTheFeared wrote: TLPD answers those kinds of questions.
Ruby: 23-13 (63.89%) 2179 TvZ ELO Hyun: 12-11 (52.17%) 2050 ZvT ELO
By stats alone Ruby's TvZ is quite good, whereas Hyun's ZvT is at best mediocre.
stats dont show how good a player is. The context of the games do. If you saw hyun's game list he has taken games off good tvz players like hwasin. And the game was straight up.
Oh he's taken a game off hwasin? This means that he's right up there with the likes of TheZerg. Amazing!
hahaha niice
by.hero and thezerg both beat hwasin. Are they gosu zvt?
Cool team matchup tho, I have not much to care about either teams, but I do kind of feel bad for OZ. ACE is a very honorable team in Korea, so either one works!
EPT![[image loading]](http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7941/jaedong.png)
![[image loading]](http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/3800/reach.png)
![[image loading]](http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6563/thelineuppng.png)
Reach < Match Point > (Z)
Killer
RuBy < Fighting Spirit > (Z)![[image loading]](http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6526/predictionspng.png)
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![[image loading]](http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1968/reccomendedgames.png)
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![[image loading]](http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/8564/pollspng.png)
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