On September 15 2026 20:57 Slayer91 wrote:
There is something I don't do enough which is mixing unit/drone production, I get the tendency to either pure drone and then pure units, that leads to easily being too greedy or too poor. It always feels optimal to pure drone at the right timing but when facing someone on constant unit production it does make sense to match it at least somewhat.
There's an exact amount you want at each point
making only lings all in - 3 drones (4 pool can be sustained at that level of production)
making only lings on 3 hatch - 9 drones (a good zvz all-in)
making mutas off one gas - 6 drones on minerals, 3 drones on gas
making only hydras from 3 hatches - 15 drones on minerals, 3 drones on gas (that's why with 973 you can afford a fourth hatch)
what's relevant to us is 3 hatch muta is then 3 gases, 18 drones on minerals, 9 on gas, 27 total
5 hatch hydra is 31 drones (you need an extra on gas for upgrades and random stuff)
6 hatch hydra is 36 drones (with extra drones when oversaturating minerals)
so consider a plan like "I want to start with 3 hatch muta, making him stay in his base, then I want to transition to 6 hatch hydra planning for if he makes vessels"
then it would go like this: make 27 drones at 3 gas, stay on muta as long as you feel is needed, then throw down hydra den, evo, hatcheries and make drones to replace those buildings while taking off gas
once you have 36+ total drones you already start making hydras on 2 gas
you DO make drones and mutas at the same time because you just don't have third gas up at the beginning
if you want to transition to queen you just make a few more drones, throw down queen's nest and start mining third gas again, they are the same cost as mutas so it's like making 1 gas muta (9 drones) and 5 hatch hydra (30 drones) which is 39 drones on 4 base (more on 3 bases for oversaturation reasons)
if you want double the queens on 4 gas, you need 7 hatch and 48+ drones on 4 bases
you're not really making units and drones at the same time, you just make the exact amount of drones for the exact army comp you're trying to get
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On September 16 2026 01:31 iopq wrote:
taking drones off gas is better against EVERY timing except for upgrade Terran (if you decide you will handle the timing with hydra) 2/1 or 3/2 attack from 3-4 bases
Not to be a prick but it might also be worse if he does a super early moveout with 7/.9 goliaths before you get hydra tech online, but you might well be right that's a good idea to pull drones off gas, I might try it next time, getting 6 hatch super fast does sound appealing, if I get comfortable production I can add my gas later.
The tradeoff in resources is just hard to swallow, and I don't really agree that the banked gas has little value.
On September 16 2026 01:45 iopq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2026 20:57 Slayer91 wrote:
There is something I don't do enough which is mixing unit/drone production, I get the tendency to either pure drone and then pure units, that leads to easily being too greedy or too poor. It always feels optimal to pure drone at the right timing but when facing someone on constant unit production it does make sense to match it at least somewhat.
you're not really making units and drones at the same time, you just make the exact amount of drones for the exact army comp you're trying to get
I have a spreadsheet to approximate the number of workers I need for each hatch count up to 7, it's about the same as yours except for 6-7 hatch I assume 4 bases of minerals - but thanks anyway
There's nothing incorrect about what you're saying here however in most games you want to constantly scale up your economy, adding drones slowly versus all at once allows your army to grow more linearly to track common situations where the opponent can attack at SOME point but you don't know which point. It's not going to be the best thing every time but definitely some times.
Yes, you want to get enough drones/hatcheries combination to support your economy but how you add those drones and hatcheries is not obvious.
Also when the game gets into uncharted territory you should be just getting as many hatcheries/drones as you possibly can rather than limiting yourself to a fixed number (within reason, e.g. 70 drones is probably enough for anyone)
Regarding the banked gas, forget about queens for a second (and it's not 5 minutes, because if you get queens, you need to get them instantly and not wait for gas to delay the broodling timing even later, but fair point that it's far into the game - I do find most mech terrans either timing push or turtle super long)
Let's say you barely hold a Terran's push but you lose all your mutas, that gives terran opportunity to get tank/vulture combo if you have no gas at all, which might not be good for you.
What works well from my experience is getting 11 mutas to follow up and T will often be stretched to hold the it or at least you can snipe tanks
then it would go like this: make 27 drones at 3 gas, stay on muta as long as you feel is needed, then throw down hydra den, evo, hatcheries and make drones to replace those buildings while taking off gas
Ok but this is the crux of the problem, if I have 27 drones and 3 gas, I happily make mutas until I realize T has too many goliaths and I'm getting out scaled, now I don't have time to throw down hatcheries and make drones
I actively need to be planning this ahead of time - example (not saying this is correct) making mutas from 2 gas, banking some gas to save money for drones and hatcheries, den, evo, and then switch into all hydra as soon as everything is ready.
If I do this reactively it won't work, but it's difficult to figure out the optimal switch point, what I've been doing is basically rushing to hydra tech but from all the games I've seen that pros play they tend to delay it, to get at least 1 flock of mutas if not 1.5-2 before their hydras are online
3 hatch muta to 5 hatch hydra is 6 more drones for minerals, plus 4 for buildings, so 10 larva need to be spent which is around 1 minute of production from 2 hatch counting overlords, then it takes 75 seconds for hatcheries and2 minutes to get speed and range and +1 attack even longer, so I feel it needs to be carefully timed out
Your idea to rush to 6 hatch hydra makes it easier, you just do everything as soon as you get initial mutas out
What is see in most of the pro games is they kind of do it more by feel
I notice they generally get 4, if not 5 hatcheries up while still on mutas and just need the den and evo
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EPT
