EPTI used to play when there was no clock, so I keep forgetting.. how much is it part of your game?
any significant times worth mentioning?
around 6:30 I should be ready for Zealot-Push, but I always look when it's too late :D
Use of the clock
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rararara
115 Posts
I used to play when there was no clock, so I keep forgetting.. how much is it part of your game? any significant times worth mentioning? around 6:30 I should be ready for Zealot-Push, but I always look when it's too late :D | ||
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Return
Ivory Coast859 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
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rararara
115 Posts
On January 03 2022 07:39 Return wrote: Yes I use the clock a ton. For my own in regards to how on point I am in my build(gas timings etc) and I have some scout timings to help with reading opponents build(archives timing, marine/medic count at 4:45) and some help in like counting with upgrades Sounds interesting. Can you specify w the builds? what do you mean with upgrades? | ||
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ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
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Return
Ivory Coast859 Posts
On January 03 2022 23:03 rararara wrote: Sounds interesting. Can you specify w the builds? what do you mean with upgrades? If I want to have my spire done so I can get scourge to deal with initial corsair on zvp, I need to make gas at a particular time to be able to get lair and spire up in right time. I'm no super gosu or anything but being like 5 seconds off on the gas timing can be the difference between cleanly picking off the first corsair or losing 2-3 overlords and have my whole build thrown off and as a consequence lose the game to his zealot timing. As zerg also particular lair timings will grant me an extra larva so I'll probably want to hit those timings too. And if say no corsair show up at like 6:00 then I can deduce if I haven't seen it before that he's potentially skipping stargate to have a stronger zealot timing. Same for depending on when his forge starts spinning will tell me if he is doing other stuff needing gas before +1 or if he is doing a like 6:30 timing or if he is going for something else, like maybe corsair/dt or a power goon build. Just some loose examples Like say I want to have +2 done at 12:00 it means I'll have to have started +1 at ~6:00 else I'll have to find some way to win time so a potential big engage doesn't happen right before my +2 power spike. Etc etc | ||
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SirGlinG
Sweden933 Posts
On January 03 2022 07:39 Return wrote: Yes I use the clock a ton. For my own in regards to how on point I am in my build(gas timings etc) and I have some scout timings to help with reading opponents build(archives timing, marine/medic count at 4:45) and some help in like counting with upgrades I use it to be ready Returns mutas could come. | ||
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rararara
115 Posts
On January 03 2022 07:39 Return wrote: If I want to have my spire done so I can get scourge to deal with initial corsair on zvp, I need to make gas at a particular time to be able to get lair and spire up in right time. I'm no super gosu or anything but being like 5 seconds off on the gas timing can be the difference between cleanly picking off the first corsair or losing 2-3 overlords and have my whole build thrown off and as a consequence lose the game to his zealot timing. As zerg also particular lair timings will grant me an extra larva so I'll probably want to hit those timings too. And if say no corsair show up at like 6:00 then I can deduce if I haven't seen it before that he's potentially skipping stargate to have a stronger zealot timing. Same for depending on when his forge starts spinning will tell me if he is doing other stuff needing gas before +1 or if he is doing a like 6:30 timing or if he is going for something else, like maybe corsair/dt or a power goon build. Just some loose examples Like say I want to have +2 done at 12:00 it means I'll have to have started +1 at ~6:00 else I'll have to find some way to win time so a potential big engage doesn't happen right before my +2 power spike. Etc etc Thanks man, that sounds like a lot of thinking during the game. Did you have to practice this to watch and get the timings right? I figured the clock adds a whole new level to scouting, but this seems almost off the charts for a casual gamer like me. What's your MMR if I may ask? | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3561 Posts
On January 05 2022 00:25 rararara wrote: Thanks man, that sounds like a lot of thinking during the game. Did you have to practice this to watch and get the timings right? I figured the clock adds a whole new level to scouting, but this seems almost off the charts for a casual gamer like me. What's your MMR if you may ask? Return is about 1800, but you can use the clock at all levels, it s more a matter of getting used to it. for example if you go for a timing build it s useful in practice (and then in that game) to mentally judge if you re on the right track. For example a 3hh hits at 5:40 or 6 (ish, give or take, i do have the exact timing somewhere though), a gas at 2:05 is a 2 hatch build, for ZvP if you don't see a corsair early (around 6th min) it s likely gateway only etc. Can be useful when scouting too. Obviously it can also be your opponent being bad, so it s not always a useful scouting tool, i use it more for my own timings than for scouting purposes. For example assuming PvT, T not dealing critical damage (say you defend a 2 fac or smthg) and you not losing too many units, you d expect to max out between 12 and 12:30. Personally I have a list of timings on a few notepads that I pull when practicing, but it s not down to the second, more like an idea of where things should be. For instance if you tvz you want to time your turrets right for mutas, so it helps if you know the general muta timing for 2h and 3h, this kind of stuff. The more the game progresses the less important this becomes though, as games will diverge from set plans/builds by then. | ||
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Return
Ivory Coast859 Posts
On January 05 2022 00:25 rararara wrote: Thanks man, that sounds like a lot of thinking during the game. Did you have to practice this to watch and get the timings right? I figured the clock adds a whole new level to scouting, but this seems almost off the charts for a casual gamer like me. What's your MMR if I may ask? As baal says, around 1800ish. And it's not like a lot of conscious thought it's more of a habit now, I kinda just tried to boil down a lot of it into words. I mostly consciously use the clock when it comes to reading the opponent in game, like particular scouting timings and use the clock for my own play as I review my replays and to some extent to kinda clock how on point I'm in my build, some minor stuff like when to send drone and gas timings in regards to lair for extra larva and how it matches with expected timings from opponent. But it's not like I'll leave the game if my lair starts at 3:04 instead of 3:02 or whatever... If its not like single player practice and I'm trying to perfectly work through a timing Can play perfectly fine not ever using the clock even at very high levels I'm sure, I'm just a nerd | ||
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rararara
115 Posts
It seems like a new analytical aspect to the game, compared to 15-20 years ago. Definitely adds more of a poker-element with more definite intel. If there's any articles, videos on this (JinJin?  ), please feel free to share everyone, thanks! | ||
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zimp
Hungary959 Posts
some basic things to remember as terran is tvz: -2hatch muta can come at 6 min. -3h muta at 7 min. -in order to have 3tanks and a vessel by 10 min you need to start your fact at 7 minutes and produce constantly. tvp: -no unit dt can come as early as 5:xx, with some units your turret should be up by 6 min. -reaver drop even after nexus first can come by 7 min. -artosis could contribute cause he knows these quite well .. this is pretty handy: https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/84768-list-of-build-times-on-fastest-speed | ||
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TelecoM
United States10864 Posts
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ZakRoM
Costa Rica54 Posts
I know that by around 10-11 minute mark I should have more than 100 supply and it's a good time for a third expansion (if the game went normally by that time). Also lurkers will come normally between 10-12 minute mark, that helps me to know around what time to make the robotics. PvT depending the opening and what Terran is doing but if I go standard I look for 3rd Nexus between 6:30-7:30, trying to have arbiter before 12m. I've found the clock very useful, I've noticed I used it less in PvP, but I try to have my gate explosion in this match around the 8-9m mark and it has helped me a lot in the mid game. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10864 Posts
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davidsamuel5
United States1 Post
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CHEONSOYUN
622 Posts
but it’s also important to know / have a sense for relative timings when inevitably you are in games where the game state is uncertain (held rushes, significant trades/harassment, mistakes/mismanagement etc.) | ||
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iopq
United States1182 Posts
On January 14 2022 04:40 TelecoM wrote: I'm curious if there is an earliest time for a hydra all in to hit in PvZ. 5 minutes, but there's no speed, just some ranged hydras and speedlings You can only guess it's coming because the speed is like a bit earlier and Zerg denies all vision earlier than usual and has enough lings to block zealots moving out | ||
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Piste
6183 Posts
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Navane
Netherlands2762 Posts
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