Since we're about to approach this year's end, the ICCup staff decided to something special. The BW community doesn't get tired to ask who the best players are, mainly because most ratings, like our ladder ranking, have their ups and downs, and never show the 'true' skill of a player - you won't play as good as you can in a training game, the same way that most players won't be able to win more than one Defiler Tournament twice in a row.
This is why we published our ICCup Event Ranking, which is based on the Elo number, using the same weight Fish or Battle.net Classic (or any standard PVPGN Realm for that matter) that recorded a lot of games. We included Defiler Tours, Altitude Nation Wars, Gambit Cup and many more. Over 7500 games and more than 400 players are in our data base. However, the system requires a player to have more than 30 games before the ranking is more or less accurate, so only about 80 players made it into the final sheet.
We now have mathematical proof that Scan and Sziky dominated the first half of this year, while TechnicS and eOnzErG are about to get close to their spots. We hope you enjoy our project!
Details about the method used, the events recorded, how to interprete the data (!) and so on can be found in the article.
It would be great if the iCCup ladder was ranked this way too. Also, Glicko2 is more accurate than ELO, so perhaps consider using that. Pretty cool to see though :D
Cool Does iCCup have any plans to change its rating system? It kind of inherited it from PGT and other past leagues. I think there are people who would appreciate a change. It might also encourage a temporary boost in activity, just for the novelty of it.
Well, I am very happy that iCCup has lasted so long. Even if there has been drama over the years, it is one of the longest lasting competitive servers BW ever saw (at least for the foreign community. Brain and Fish I think have been around forever lol). iCCup's oldest still available newspost is at the end of 2008 (http://www.iccup.com/content/news/page85.html), but I actually am fairly confident it has been around even a little before that?
On December 06 2012 00:48 Chef wrote: Cool Does iCCup have any plans to change its rating system? It kind of inherited it from PGT and other past leagues. I think there are people who would appreciate a change. It might also encourage a temporary boost in activity, just for the novelty of it.
Well, I am very happy that iCCup has lasted so long. Even if there has been drama over the years, it is one of the longest lasting competitive servers BW ever saw (at least for the foreign community. Brain and Fish I think have been around forever lol). iCCup's oldest still available newspost is at the end of 2008 (http://www.iccup.com/content/news/page85.html), but I actually am fairly confident it has been around even a little before that?
Fighting~
No, we are not planning major changes to the ladder system. There are many reasons for that - we have a lot to do to maintain the ladder: Very few motivated admins and more so technical issues that need to be sorted out. But Brood War is sadly not the only game on ICCup, on the contrary even the smallest out of all the titles. On a side note: if you want to help out and are not happy with the situation as it is consider to join our team. We desperately need new and motivated people in almost all sections!
But back to topic. The ICCup/PGTour ladder system was built around the idea of the map of the weeks. You theoretically could do the same with the ELO rating (using different weights for matches on MOTWs), but that needs a lot more time and resources. If you ever opened the (public available) source for the PVPGN system, you'll realize how much time it must have been to introduce ICCup's system to begin with.
It will most likely stay the way it is. We however hope to add new maps in the future, namely the ones used in BWMN Open and maybe the ones Sonic uses for his SSL and show matches. No promises, we need to see the feed back of the community first, since we do not want to add stuff that might be imbalanced and change the pool every other day.
On December 05 2012 21:45 Birdie wrote: It would be great if the iCCup ladder was ranked this way too. Also, Glicko2 is more accurate than ELO, so perhaps consider using that. Pretty cool to see though :D
We used a different algorithm before we finally recorded all games for the ranking. It didn't change much on the outcome, so we decided to use what the users are probably most familiar with. But it's a good point, we might use a different algorithm in the future. For now this ranking is just the basis for upcoming events. Thanks for the feedback!
If you wanted a shortcut for making people play different maps, you could just ban certain maps each week from being played at all. Surely that already exists since people can only play iCCup's official maps. In that case you only need to update the list. MOTW system sorta works, but not really. It causes more problems than it fixes, what with inflated ranks, which make player ratings even less meaningful. One of the biggest complaints people have is that they are never playing people their own level.
Well, if you don't have time, you don't have time. That is a fine reason and one I'll accept. But don't say some nonsense to me about StarCraft being the least active game on your server, as if that also made it the least important. It may be true its least active, but it is no reason to ignore it. It has gotten less and less active over the years because it has been merely maintained, rather than trying to keep up with other servers or offer new features. It's no coincidence that lots of people are asking 'how can I play on Fish?'
Regardless, the server is at least available, responsive, etc. This is more than we can say for Blizzards official servers sometimes
Great idea. I simply love the fact that people are still doing so much for the bw comunity... now if only i was a teen once again to have those massive amount of hours to play....
On December 06 2012 01:14 Chef wrote: If you wanted a shortcut for making people play different maps, you could just ban certain maps each week from being played at all. Surely that already exists since people can only play iCCup's official maps. In that case you only need to update the list. MOTW system sorta works, but not really. It causes more problems than it fixes, what with inflated ranks, which make player ratings even less meaningful. One of the biggest complaints people have is that they are never playing people their own level.
Well, if you don't have time, you don't have time. That is a fine reason and one I'll accept. But don't say some nonsense to me about StarCraft being the least active game on your server, as if that also made it the least important. It may be true its least active, but it is no reason to ignore it. It has gotten less and less active over the years because it has been merely maintained, rather than trying to keep up with other servers or offer new features. It's no coincidence that lots of people are asking 'how can I play on Fish?'
Regardless, the server is at least available, responsive, etc. This is more than we can say for Blizzards official servers sometimes
Well, the crew that works on Brood War does their best and we do not have unlimited access to change the server's infrastructure (the overall code). It's simply hard to convince the project leadership to change it, so your post is a bit like shooting the messenger, mainly because they have a lot of different and bigger projects running besides Brood War - hence the previous response. If we could, we would, but we can't, so... I hope you understand we can not do miracles, but do our best :/
On December 06 2012 02:03 LTY wrote: Dang, I actually want to see another ISL. ISL1 was the best for sure.
Maybe, but ISL 3 was still a- FUCKING -mazing ISL4 will be to when it happens. Game did say that he has to announce a lot of things to announce and let's hope ISL4 is one of them
I don't see a point in having Scan in the list when he's banned from most of the foreigner tourneys. But having him play in almost every Defiler tour does complicates things a bit.
On December 06 2012 10:10 2Pacalypse- wrote: I don't see a point in having Scan in the list when he's banned from most of the foreigner tourneys. But having him play in almost every Defiler tour does complicates things a bit.
he just played and won too many defiler tours. You can tell how much they add to the rankings when people who didn't participate in a lot of other tours are high ranked, i.e tama, gargoyle and biggus.
On December 06 2012 10:10 2Pacalypse- wrote: I don't see a point in having Scan in the list when he's banned from most of the foreigner tourneys. But having him play in almost every Defiler tour does complicates things a bit.
The participants in the Defiler Tours have way more games than other foreigners that may have just played in Gambit Cup or ICC-CL. Scan, Sziky, eOnzErg, and TerrOr have all consistently been active in the Defiler Tournaments, hence the large number of total games that they have accumulated. In my opinion, Scan should not be banned from foreign tournaments, but is being punished unfairly, and without tangible evidence.
On December 06 2012 10:10 2Pacalypse- wrote: I don't see a point in having Scan in the list when he's banned from most of the foreigner tourneys. But having him play in almost every Defiler tour does complicates things a bit.
Excluding him might have been a huge bias for the ranking, disregarding of what algorithm would have been used. If Scan would indeed heavily abuse in a new tournament series (e.g. using hacks) or did other violations (e.g. scamming people over for money), we would exclude him from the presentation.
However, the ranking and what it shows has nothing to do with each organizer's policy towards black lists and what not and we will not interfere with this (and don't want to, because it would be silly). As long as one player, in this case Scan, shows up for the important tournaments, he will always be in the data base.
On December 14 2012 22:57 ICCupBW wrote: Ranking updated, a few things are now included:
- BWMN Open - SBWI Nation Wars - DT47 + Mini Series 1/2
Also, the ranking has been cleaned of inactive 1on1 players - Scan, dOTY, Pro7ect and a few others are out. And we have a new #1: :eon:
I am out because ?....
You did not play in one of the events as 1on1 player - I thought not taking you out since you were in the 2on2 line up during nation wars. But eventually, for the sake of having the most recent scores and to keep the overview, you're out of the visible ranking, your points didn't change though (means you're still in the data base). The second you play a game as 1on1 player, you're in again. That's also being explained in the full article (which is linked in the news) when and why a player is removed.
Edit: you can compare your rank in the current ranking from the sheet and the archive in the article with the list now - no harm done, no personal feelings involved
EPT
Does iCCup have any plans to change its rating system? It kind of inherited it from PGT and other past leagues. I think there are people who would appreciate a change. It might also encourage a temporary boost in activity, just for the novelty of it.
