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Physician
United States4146 Posts
Broodwar News and Divided Community
Despite all appearances the Starcraft community is fragmented into a zillion little communities. If you don't believe me go to battle.net and start asking around random pubbies if they know what "teamliquid" or "wgtour" or "starcraftgamers" is.. Who actually here knows that for example Replays.hu gets more unique hits than the combined hits of gg.net and sclegacy, or that they have an English section?
Often all of these communities do not even know the existence of the other. This lack of unity does not affect those of us who have been playing for years and know where to find what. It affects mainly the new players that start playing Starcraft, get quickly owned by gamers who have been gaming many years and end up giving up the game or moving to the UMS section of our game. Some learn to turtle and hide out for many years in $$$ maps until they realize one day there is a world of melee players out there.
The fact that a lot of melee players disappear from battle.net public games to play in their channels with their friends does not help either. It also gives the increasing sensation that the game is shrinking, when in fact it has remained pretty stable in the western hemisphere (with usually a 35% of battle.net people that log on do so to play broodwar - a % that has not budged much during the last 2 years). True some old gamers move on and your friend's list may reflect this but for everyone that leaves there is usually 1.5 that joins the game world wide.
Blizzard has not helped us much in this respect and I guess it is really in their best interest for all of us to move on and by their other products. What they do not realize is that most of us do anyway. If you’re a new gamer given the million starcraft sites out it is easy to miss the better ones that actually give you meaningful content, such as this one. I will be asking Blizzard to see if they can include the current major sites in the Starcraft compendium that accepts updates frequently.
I will put down the following sites:
Teamliquid.net
Gosugamers.net
Wgtour.com
For obvious reasons I will not include Pgtour.net. If you think I am forgetting an important site please leave a reply (it helps if you leave info on how long the site has been up and how many uniques it gets currently - but this info is not necessary - it just helps to make a better case) Of note the site has to be English based as is all of the Battle.net content and Korean sites do not need out help. FiFo for example gets as many uniques as Battle.net (without WOW).
The only two sites currently published at Battle.net are sclegacy and starcraft.org. Sclegacy is still alive and is a frequent stop for just about everyone that speaks English thanks to many years of hard efforts and the linking by Blizzard.
If you have interesting news that you think would benefit the whole starcraft community please send it to Physician by email at negativegene@yahoo.com. I will make sure the whole community hears about it (including the other major sites). Or simply type it in this submit form if you hate e-mails:
http://www.entropyzero.org/SubmitNews.html
You can also PM Raistlin at http://www.gosugamers.net/profil.php?i=429, and he can pass it on to the other editors who all have time to make your news look handsome at gg.net.
Don't forget ScLegacy that has always been there for all of us:
http://www.sclegacy.com/sendmessage.php
Alternatively you can do the smart thing which is simply to leave a post at TL.net in their Broodwar Forum.
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nice post~~ agree with alot of it
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gosureplays.com plz? we owe a lot to rs.Heaven and his efforts
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Netherlands13554 Posts
For obvious reasons I will not include pgtour.net.
It's not so obvious to me.. or do you think blizzard will close them down if they knew about them hosting a money ladder on a private server?
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i thinks thats because he "works" for wgtour
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
# Twisted
Blizzard can't close them down currently legally. But the definitively will not be accept their link so its pointless offering it. At the mystery tournament they used mp3s despite Rwas being availiable. They stick to their policies, always have. They will not link to a site that hosts a private server.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
# raidern_br
I work both at wgtour and pgtour - luv both. But I am a realist, Blizzard won't foster anything that has to do with a private server  - ever.
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Physician is correct 
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Don't forget grammatically correct and prompt posting.
GG.net has set the standard for community news.
With GG.net you get the most complete coverage of the English BW scene.
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so one effect of your plan is that there will be a migration of more noobs into tlnet and it will be up to the mods to ban the good ones from the bad ones, which should increase the bnet stable population.
true, there are alot of mannered pubbies out there but there are so many more nonmannered ones. if approved, i hope the mods are ready 
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Theres nothing wrong with newbs on tl.net if they wanna come here and learn
physician good initiative!
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I think there's nothing wrong at all with some division in the starcraft playing community. It's a great thing that not every tom dick and harry that comes on broodwar for the occasional game knows about websites such as this one especially. Most of the regulars readers/posters here are, or have been at some point in their lives, very dedicated, serious and knowledgable broodwar players. This makes the quality of the forums very good and worth reading relative to other sites. Probably 99% of people who don't have a clue about the existence of this site don't have much of a clue about bw in general and i think it's a great thing they don't know about this site. Looking at the quality of discussion on forums of more popularly known sites such as starcraftgamers/gosugamers, wgtour and especially battle.net makes me sick and i'd hate for this site to become that bad, which is bound to steadily happen as this site gets more and more popular (although the good moderation seems to do well keeping this at bay). i dread to think what would happen when a link to this site appears on official blizzard/bnet sites, any random idiot would come and decide hey this site looks cool, why not post some good old fashioned inane garbage here
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On February 02 2005 11:20 ChoboCop wrote:Don't forget grammatically correct and prompt posting. GG.net has set the standard for community news.With GG.net you get the most complete coverage of the English BW scene.
I went to GG.net, but it just has a blank page
Are you getting this, too, or is it my browser orcomputer's problem?
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its gosugamers.net
i did the same thing...
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I think that wgtour has less games played than pgtour, plus pgtour is better, the replay section is better, the admins are better etc
Wgtour staff just hates pgtour (well admins on wgtour=kids+idiots+few normal people?)
I wonder if blizzard could close pgtour, they could always use a server located in a smaller country, where blizzard lawyers couldnt reach it.
Maybe it's a better idea not to inform blizzard about it, but well if they dont know about it, they probably know nothing about the game.
personally I think it would be good if blizzard knew about this site and browse the forums, because the battle.net forums are full of newbiness. however I dont like the idea of 100stupid threads made by newbs dayly
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heh, actually Epiphany has a good point about this site, but definately the community sites at least should go up at Blizzard
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
To all those who post about elitism and "noobs."
Not everyone stays playing Broodwar forever ~ without the constant ranks of new players coming into our community we would dwindle to death. I know many a "noob" that in a period of one year becomes "gosu" under the right influence (ya, ya and of course a dose of skill). It is not being new at a game that makes you immediately immature - it’s your age and your mind set. Immature people do not last too long in this forum (its hidden secret) thus one should not worry about the maturity level of people. Ahhh and by the way Roseofdream is a "noob" at starcraft ~ and look at what he has done for his community..
It is important however to try and offer the majority out there (and yes they ARE the majority) playing starctaft that there is something "different" out there ( to avoid using word "better" ) than just playing UMS and or Money $$$ maps.
~ you get my point I am not trying to harp on anyone, just putting down fears about random "noob" and imature posters ~ one ban, and end of problem, as it always has been, and yes I understand the fear.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
# 8882 Blizzard does read this forum. They even read this thread.
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i remember how i was first introduced to this bw community. sure, i had the sc university my first year where i took the courses and mostly learned to keep units below 500. but years passed, three or four, and i participated in many a pub clan. then one day, i played a 1v1 on temple against a guy who said i had potential he recommended me to sclegacy, and thought it was the best thing ever created. i discovered boxer v. reach nfz game. but then grew a dissatisfaction within me that did not have a name yet. i dont know how it happened, but i think sclegacy had a link to tlnet and i think thats the first time i felt there wasnt a community of just noobs, but actual, sometimes intelligent fellow scers.
and thats the abridged story of how i discovered tlnet which led to wgtour, gosugamers, etc. physician has a point. i wouldve loved it if someone had shown me the door when i first started out. but forgive me if i want them to go through a little endeavoring, and luck, to find out about this special place
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Good post, I know what you mean. I'll certainly check out some of the sites you provided links for. I remember my treck across random sites as I slowly found nice forums.
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I think more random people know about places like TL then you think. It's just that not many Starcraft players are interested in getting better or being part of any community other than their little circle of friends.
Also I don't want them all posting here, this place can get bad enough without the absolute mediocrity of the internet crashing down on it.
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admins do a great job. if they banned me ever i'd have no argument cuz they know what is good for the community ;o
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hmm... I don't think that many noobs would start posting here at once, because they would feel insecure. I know that I felt insecure about posting when I first came to tl.net. I think I read almost every forum thread for about 6 months before I posted my first reply... Also the younger noobs outside the english speaking countries wouldn't post a lot cause they don't know good enough english. This site is mostly american, though ~~
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damnit i just wrote a whole long reply and IE crashed...
anyway, what stance would u have about the following sites?
brrodwar.de? bw4ever? about 4523452 other european sites? gosus.com? gosureplays.com? teamareola.com? starcraft.org? broodwar.com (still going? maybe not) battlereports.com? F2F? ygclan.com? all the russion sites? repays.co.kr? cafe daum? the ogn/mbc, itv sites? about 4234423 other korean sites?
I'm just wondering what constitutes an appropriate site.. does it have to hae a 'news' section? A certain number of visitors per week? English language (careful here, i use ygclan a lot and i don't speak a word of whatever language that site is in)?
EDIT: btw i'm not saying u should/should not include any of these sites, just giving u food for thought
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great post, it's a very good idea. Public bnet is actually overrun by moneymap players. I've even met an ex bw player who barely even knew there was melee games, i have nothing against moneymap players when they aren't arrogant but the fact that some new players can be forced by the actual state of public bnet to ignore the true starcraft kills me T_T
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Isnt there a Bliz fansite listing? I know there used to be on blizzardgamers.com or something
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
Sclegacy has a fan site database. It needs some serious upkeeping though. Any site owner can update it, but many do not even know of its existence.
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17053 Posts
On February 02 2005 12:27 Sharkey wrote:forgot about the starcraft board at http://www.gamefaqs.comThat is a good board!
You haven't been there in a while, have you?
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EPT
