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"How do you get these streams?"
"What happened to your access?"
Two questions I've heard a lot. I'll start with the first, as it's a bit more interesting and a necessary preface to the second question.
How do [I] get these streams?
So, how then did I get the streams with such good quality and stability? In truth, I had little to do with it; I was merely around at the right time and with the will and desire to use it for BW. About a year and a half ago (my dates may not be 100%), three people from TL -- TOP, Kentor, & Solin -- decided they wanted to make a kpop site with streams to watch the various music shows that South Korea offers (there's four "main" ones that air Th-Sun and a few smaller ones lately). They formed a site that frequenters of the TL kpop thread are probably familiar with -- kpopflash. I'm not 100% on the timeline, but I believe at first they relied on places like Afreeca, which is a Korean site that functions similarly to livestream or ustream, but is only available to Koreans. While this works , the quality varies from BJ to BJ (the term used for the person streaming) and is prone to buffering. In other words, not something very ideal. The three decided they wanted something more reliable than to restream a restream, which is where the BW part starts to catch up.
Before I get to that, however, let me interject where I fit in. Like many of you, I used to watch BW streams from these three, plus Roffles. Roffles was around when the three were putting together KPF and sort of fell into an admin role himself. His role involved mostly updating the archive with various kpop performances, which is something that has since been abandoned. Anyway, Roffles' stream, in particular, played a lot of kpop, and I ended up taking a liking to it. Subsequently, I started perusing the TL kpop thread, where I came across KPF, which was still in its infant stages. Being an early member and someone from TL, it didn't take long to become a mod at KPF (which had its own small forum). I was actually one of the original two moderators, for whatever that's worth.
But, back to the how. You see, GomTV offers a TVing service (cleverly called My TVing), where a number of Korean channels are available online for a small monthly fee, but this, too, is also only for Koreans and requires a KSSN to even sign up. Nonetheless, the three were pretty resourceful. They got past that hurdle, got the account, and set off figuring out a way to use it. The ultimate result was fairly ingenious; I honestly haven't figured out how they accomplished it, despite my attempts -- best guess is they registered for a corporate account, which made the next part easier. Anyway, they managed to take these channels and turn them into a series of network streams which ran off the kpopflash server that's based out of Seattle. All you'd do is stick the URL into VLC, PotPlayer, or what have you, and out would come whichever channel. Each channel corresponded to a different number at the end of the URL, e.g. 9101 was OGN, which in turn corresponded to the port used by the service itself.
Presumably, the server's location on west coast USA is what gives it as smooth a connection as it has, since I have all kinds of buffering issues on the east coast. Oh yeah, for a third question I get asked a lot: yes, I am white. Anywho, you may have caught a peak of the network urls for these streams here and there and even tried them (I know some of you have), but only to have them not work. That answer is a simple one: access requires white-listing; if your IP isn't manually added, you don't get access. Being one of the original mods and one of the earliest members of the site, I guess I pretty much fell into getting access. There were probably a dozen people who were given access (and probably still have it) besides me. So that catches things up for part two.
What happened to [my] access?
Cue the drama. No, seriously. If you don't want to feel like you just returned to those awkward middle- and high-school years, you probably don't want to read the rest of this, since that's all it is.
December 14th: the TL kpop thread was having boatloads of people coming by and reposting songs/images that had already been posted in the thread (often several times prior), prompting complaints by me and a handful of others for people to use the search feature before aimlessly posting (in most cases you could find the exact same video posted as the first result from just a 2 word search). My particular post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=98009¤tpage=979#19571
Anyway, so KPF had an IRC channel (same place as TL has theirs), which I used pretty regularly. I was literally about to crawl into bed, when I saw I'd been kicked from the KPF IRC channel as a result of the aforementioned TL post. This is the IRC log of that period, with the handful of extraneous messages from other people removed.
+ Show Spoiler +Session Time: Tue Dec 14 00:00:00 2010 _03[00:03] * You were kicked by Raffles (Fuck you_) _11[00:03] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kpopflash _03[00:03] * Rejoined channel #kpopflash _03[00:03] * Topic is 'http://kpopflash.net/ _' _03[00:03] * Set by Ixas on Mon Dec 13 07:59:07 _03[00:05] * MM_YounHa sets mode: +o Craton [00:05] <@Raffles> who the fuck [00:05] <@Raffles> are these people _03[00:05] * Raffles sets mode: -o Craton _00[00:41] <Craton> http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20101213_00[00:41] <Craton> wrote this with sung_moon in mind _00[00:42] <Craton> and also roffleds _00[00:42] <Craton> go fuck yourself [00:42] <@Raffles> lol _00[00:42] <Craton> you go from bitching about the thread to "wahh stop complaining so much" every other month _00[00:42] <Craton> meanwhile saying how you don't even read it anymore [00:43] <@Raffles> i bitch about the post quality [00:43] <@Raffles> which is still terribad [00:43] <@Raffles> you just deter people from posting [00:43] <@Raffles> because all you do is act like a nazi [00:43] <@Raffles> while you're spewing out shit like "AMG ITS A REPEAT FROM 500 PAGES BACK" _00[00:43] <Craton> people post the same fucking shit _00[00:43] <Craton> every other page [00:43] <@Raffles> the goal here _00[00:43] <Craton> it takes FIVE GODDAMN SECONDS to check [00:43] <@Raffles> is to make them post BETTER [00:44] <@Raffles> not MAKE THEM NOT POST _00[00:44] <Craton> how is it better _00[00:44] <Craton> for them to post useless hit _00[00:44] <Craton> to recycle the same 5 posts about the same damn thing _00[00:44] <Craton> over _00[00:44] <Craton> and _00[00:44] <Craton> over _00[00:44] <Craton> and _00[00:44] <Craton> over [00:44] <@Raffles> its better than a dead thread _00[00:44] <Craton> better is posting new shit _00[00:44] <Craton> the thread isnt dead _00[00:44] <Craton> it wont die [00:44] <@Raffles> it's on the verge of dying _00[00:44] <Craton> bullshit [00:44] <@Raffles> because you're all nazing in _00[00:45] <Craton> the thread grows pages a day _00[00:45] <Craton> 15 pages in less than 3 days _00[00:45] <Craton> how is that dead? [00:45] <@Raffles> the guy wants to post something [00:45] <@Raffles> that was last posted [00:45] <@Raffles> 500 pages ago [00:46] <@Raffles> and you're gonna call it a repeat [00:46] <@Raffles> let him fucking post [00:46] <@Raffles> the damn thing _00[00:46] <Craton> because its the totality of shit [00:46] <@Raffles> and stop acting like you're a fucking elitist _00[00:46] <Craton> its not one person reposting [00:46] <@Raffles> shut the fuck up _00[00:46] <Craton> its everyone _00[00:46] <Craton> constantly _00[00:46] <Craton> why should i not complain about people being lazy fucks? _00[00:46] <Craton> about bringing nothing new to the thread _00[00:46] <Craton> hm? [00:47] <@Raffles> you know [00:47] <@Raffles> instead of complaining [00:47] <@Raffles> and bitching [00:47] <@Raffles> you can set an example [00:47] <@Raffles> cause literally all your posts in that thread [00:47] <@Raffles> have been complaining [00:47] <@Raffles> "USE SPOILER TAGS" _00[00:47] <Craton> thats bullshit [00:47] <@Raffles> "DONT REPEAT" [00:47] <@Raffles> and you act [00:47] <@Raffles> as if you're like [00:47] <@Raffles> untouchable in that thread [00:47] <@Raffles> get off your high horse [00:47] <@Raffles> and stop acting as if you're a fucking mod _00[00:48] <Craton> bullshit [00:48] <@Raffles> let the actual mods take care of the thread _00[00:48] <Craton> mods take care of trolling and memes _00[00:48] <Craton> they dont care about quality _00[00:48] <Craton> if nobody ever says anything this shit turns into akp _03[00:49] * Raffles sets mode: -b+b *!*@210.12.112.87.dyn.plus.net *!*@c-69-137-227-36.hsd1.md.comcast.net _03[00:49] * You were kicked by Raffles (Craton_) _11[00:49] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kpopflash Session Close: Tue Dec 14 00:49:09 2010
So where to go from there? Well, I was obviously pretty pissed (take your reason: hypocrisy, being banned, abuse of operator status, etc.). I ended up PMing LID8 about the thread, since he was a TL mod I knew frequented it. The jist of the PM was asking if I had been out of line and if we could get some ground-rules set for the thread. His reply was that he was largely in agreeance with me and that he'd bring it up with other mods and see what they thought. The TL staff actually just this week enacted some rules about reposting things + excessive hate (you'd be surprised the arguing that goes on about kpop groups, lol), for what it's worth.
I'm told that I was unbanned from IRC relatively shortly after this, but I didn't log back on for maybe two weeks. From pretty much mid-December to last week (mid-January), I really didn't use IRC much, since I was still salty over the whole affair. I came by once or twice during a music show to update the topic with "Now Performing: XYZ," but that was mostly it. I had MSN/AIM to talk people if I wanted to, plus I was still active on TL (streaming and posting), so I had little need or desire to use IRC.
Anyway, so fast-forward to maybe the second week of January. I don't remember who was playing, but I was streaming some game. In my chat I had three mods, one of which was Roffles. One of the other two had modded him and I had left it be. Well, at some point one of the other 2 mods got kicked from chat and came back blaming me. My response was "Don't blame me," which prompted the mod to ask "Should I blame Roffles?" I said "Probably." I also de-opped Roffles, since the day prior he had kicked a couple people for arbitrary reasons and I figured it was the same story. Being on UStream chat (not IRC), I couldn't see who actually had kicked the mod in question, but I dismissed it, since it was largely trivial (joke kicks happen a lot in stream chats, who cares, right?) Wrong.
The next morning I'm once again banned from IRC, which I haven't used in maybe 2 weeks beyond idling (IRC was set up to log in and join the channels automatically). However, I'm not just banned from the public KPF channel, I'm also banned from the private one. It was clearly intentional. So over the next day or so I played events back in my head and posted on the forum to figure out why I was banned this time (the thread stands unanswered to this day). The only thing that stuck out was the aforementioned scenario. I don't know for certain if it was Roffles or not, but it wasn't a far leap when you consider the timeline I've laid out. So, I banned him from my stream chat. Next day, midway through an SWL game, I lose all access to the KPF network streams and my staff access on the site was also revoked. Again, not coincidental.
After quite a bit of run-around, I finally got a hold of TOP to get some answers. It boiled down to "you've done things to make people not like you, so when Roffles called for your head, it was given." What things you ask? I asked just that question -- the response: "I don't know, it doesn't make sense. Just wait a few days and be more tactful when you're unbanned." Don't get me wrong; I've said my share of things and had my share of arguments, but I had remained virtually a ghost to KPF for the month or so prior -- I hadn't been around to actually do things to "make people not like me." So I waited a few days and talked to TOP again, but the response to "Are you guys going to let me stream BW again?" was a simple "no." With that, it's safe to consider the era of my HQ PiP streams at an end.
I'll still attempt to scrape together BW streams, but I'm generally not going to bother streaming if I can't get a stable source. Sorry guys. But, at least now you know the full story and can stop asking me about it all the time!
[Addendum]
I wanted to add something, after hearing some replies. Most of the people at KPF are pretty cool guys -- the kind that you'd hang out with on any given day and just shoot the breeze. They're kind of just caught up in the middle. So, please don't condemn all of KPF just because of this.
 
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
YOU MY FAVOURITE STREAMER
Now streams will never have the same amount of awesome kpop between games.
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sup my brother. i don't appreciate the fact that i'm getting dissed there!!! 
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Damn... This is a sad story. It makes me feel upset and makes me feel like there's a huge lack of communication going on. Hopefully this blog clears some stuff up maybe?
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On January 27 2011 15:10 sung_moon wrote:sup my brother. i don't appreciate the fact that i'm getting dissed there!!!
I didn't diss you? You're my 2nd favorite person from KPF.
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How unfortunate, for both you, and the viewers.
It seems drama exists everywhere.
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-_-, i seriously hope this is not an indication of how a lot of the mods here work. kinda childish from ur perspective so i would luv to hear from roffles
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No, the KPF mods have no affiliation with TL mods. The TL mods are not involved in any of this.
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Wow, we lose the champion of BW streamers since the KeSPA/Gretech situation to some petty drama? ><
Life isn't fair.
You got me listening to K-Pop from your stream alone and I'd always tune to your stream over anyone else's for the pure quality.
Craton, you're one of the people I appreciate most around here, you're a champion to the BW community, and I've always wanted to beat you at LB (failed hard) and FPL (trying to catch up).
This is a huge loss to the community.
Thanks Craton for posting this.
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Wow >_< so much kpop drama. Sorry to hear that. Quite frankly, I'm afraid of that thread because of all the things that can go wrong there (repost, stating your opinion/love for SNSD, etc).
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yaoyuan.com has the streams usually, if you can restream them craton that'd be great, the quality is decent, not perfect, and i could get it running pretty easily,
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TL related drama... It just doesn't get any better.
I hope the kpop fanatics and power bitches get over themselves and bring some fucking bw streaming if they actually have such a nice source.
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On January 27 2011 15:31 masterbreti wrote:
yaoyuan.com has the streams usually, if you can restream them craton that'd be great, the quality is decent, not perfect, and i could get it running pretty easily,
Aren't those streams in chinese? I guess that would be preferable to nothing, though.
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I think everyone should hold their judgments into you get the other side of the story.
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i'm not sure, though they sound the same and there are no overlays that i can tell
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NOOO CRATON! YOur stream have the best quality... There's not as many BW streamer as it is.
Sigh...
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No point drawing conclusions from one side of the story, the people on the other end of this may have seen it differently, hence the drama. You obviously had a point in the k-pop thread though, as can be evidenced by the public note it now has
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
You have no patience at all. What you should have done is wait for the whole thing to blow over and then try to make friends again. Instead you proved how much of a dick you are by posting it in public. Because of that, you threw away your chance at reconciliation.
I'm not worried about the availably of brood war streams. There will always be someone who steps up and streams for TL. You can always open up Afreeca and use that to stream if you wanted to.
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I miss my boy D-con... Well, don't know the details but thanks for streaming up to now.
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further evidence to me that kpop is the scourge of the earth
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Yep, seems a bit childish, especially since a lot of TL netizens rely on Craton's stream to watch BW. There haven't been a lot of streamers for Proleague recently and with Craton gone there's a good possibility people will get up in the middle of the night to find no-one streaming + Show Spoiler +.
Not going to get involved in this since there's obviously always two sides to the story, but I hope you'll at least get the rights for streaming back. No matter what went down between you and Roffles, it would be a bit petty to keep hundreds of BW fans from watching the games because of some personal beef.
Can't we all just get along ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/mirror/smilies/nooo.gif)
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Wow. Sounds like they're all acting like children.
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On January 27 2011 15:38 T.O.P. wrote:
You have no patience at all. What you should have done is wait for the whole thing to blow over and then try to make friends again. Instead you proved how much of a dick you are by posting it in public. Because of that, you threw away your chance at reconciliation.
I'm not worried about the availably of brood war streams. There will always be someone who steps up and streams for TL. You can always open up Afreeca and use that to stream if you wanted to.
Banning from IRC at whim, revoking stream access, and staff demotions are not things that one should do lightly.
There was more than a month from start to finish in this event. I would say that patience was exercised.
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On January 27 2011 15:32 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 15:31 masterbreti wrote:
yaoyuan.com has the streams usually, if you can restream them craton that'd be great, the quality is decent, not perfect, and i could get it running pretty easily, Aren't those streams in chinese? I guess that would be preferable to nothing, though.
upon further inspection it does look like its been redubbed in chinese, though in all reality i don't think they do the dubbing live, you would have to see for yourself. and its quite easy to set up too.
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On January 27 2011 15:53 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 15:38 T.O.P. wrote:
You have no patience at all. What you should have done is wait for the whole thing to blow over and then try to make friends again. Instead you proved how much of a dick you are by posting it in public. Because of that, you threw away your chance at reconciliation.
I'm not worried about the availably of brood war streams. There will always be someone who steps up and streams for TL. You can always open up Afreeca and use that to stream if you wanted to. Banning from IRC at whim, revoking stream access, and staff demotions are not things that one should do lightly. There was more than a month from start to finish in this event. I would say that patience was exercised.
Read the fine print, asshole. 6-8 weeks to delivery.
User was warned for this post
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I am curious about what the 'true' story behind this is. I think this will go on for more than what has been posted.
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On January 27 2011 15:55 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 15:32 Craton wrote:On January 27 2011 15:31 masterbreti wrote:
yaoyuan.com has the streams usually, if you can restream them craton that'd be great, the quality is decent, not perfect, and i could get it running pretty easily, Aren't those streams in chinese? I guess that would be preferable to nothing, though. upon further inspection it does look like its been redubbed in chinese, though in all reality i don't think they do the dubbing live, you would have to see for yourself. and its quite easy to set up too.
I think they do, or at least do most of the time. Feel free to PM me with how to do it.
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On January 27 2011 15:38 T.O.P. wrote:
You have no patience at all. What you should have done is wait for the whole thing to blow over and then try to make friends again. Instead you proved how much of a dick you are by posting it in public. Because of that, you threw away your chance at reconciliation.
I'm not worried about the availably of brood war streams. There will always be someone who steps up and streams for TL. You can always open up Afreeca and use that to stream if you wanted to.
I will say, despite having only 1 side of the story (not one I really care about anyways since I have no vested in interest in it one way or the other), that type of response doesn't bode well for your side. Saying, "You have no patience at all" sounds like saying "Well somebody fucked up and it would have blown over, but you didn't feel like eating our shit for no reason." Looking forward to the drama llama train.
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51463 Posts
I'm going to post a response considering this blog is extremely biased and clear that you are trying to martyr yourself to the community.
As a headnote to those who don't know, I work closely with TOP/Kentor/Solinren on KPF, although I don't these days as much as when the site started up.
The main reason for our cause of actions was that your personality towards us was very irrate and we felt you crossed the line too many times. Several incidents highlighted this, but I won't go into this as it will add more unnecessary drama. In short, as a group, we felt that your attitude towards us was a detrimental effect that we did not appreciate.
Access to the streams that we pay for and operate, is a privilege, not a right. We reserve every right to add/remove whitelisted IPs at our own discretion.
As TOP said, you could have waited a couple of days for everything to boil over, but unfortunately you completely severed our respect for you in whole by making this blog, completely villainising us.
I'll let Roffles make a more detailed response when he wakes up, but this is basically the gist of where I am coming from.
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On January 27 2011 15:38 T.O.P. wrote:
You have no patience at all. What you should have done is wait for the whole thing to blow over and then try to make friends again. Instead you proved how much of a dick you are by posting it in public. Because of that, you threw away your chance at reconciliation.
I'm not worried about the availably of brood war streams. There will always be someone who steps up and streams for TL. You can always open up Afreeca and use that to stream if you wanted to.
I think it was right to at least inform us that his access was cut off. And out of everyone with access, he was the only one to step up and stream BW almost every day (yeah I know Roffles streams sometimes and I've seen you do it once). I mean who doesn't log on to TL during game time not expect a Craton stream on these days?
Maybe KPF can present their own side so we can see how it was justifiable to deny access to Craton from streaming HQ BW to TL, must be mega huge drama for it to lead up to this. Because if it is only because of a disagreement between how a certain thread should be modded (and not even by TL admins), it's a little ridiculous.
Also, the second paragraph looks like indifference to me, I don't think I've ever seen you post on the BW forum since I started posting again in Nov '10, and from that time till now there only have been a handful of streamers - Craton, XesbT, Grobyc (not recently), konadora (LQ, and not often, also restreams, but <3 the effort), fedOr (often, but sometimes laggy, still a champ), and some people who have done it a handful of times (Roffles, T.O.P, Kentor, other smaller streams). I think Craton losing his stream access is a big deal.
Edit: Wow, the GTR post appeared after I hit Post, I'll be quiet now and let things run their course -_-
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Way to quickstriker it craton :/
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CA10828 Posts
from the perspective of how TL staff works: when someone loses privileges, they deserve the common courtesy of a PM explaining why the actions took place.
i'm not going to comment on whether he should have been destaffed or revoked stream access or not since i'm not fully aware of the situation.
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On January 27 2011 16:11 LosingID8 wrote:
from the perspective of how TL staff works: when someone loses privileges, they deserve the common courtesy of a PM explaining why the actions took place.
i'm not going to comment on whether he should have been destaffed or revoked stream access or not since i'm not fully aware of the situation.
Gotta agree with LosingID8 here. How did you not even tell him what you did and why you did it. Doesn't make mutch sense. This is based off what he told uss though.
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This wasn't an argument over how to moderate a thread; I'm not sure where you got that idea?
Access to the stream that we pay for and operate, is a privilege, not a right. We reserve every right to add/remove whitelisted IPs at our own discretion.
I have no disagreement with that.
The main reason for our cause of actions was that your personality towards us was very irrate and we felt you crossed the line too many times. Several incidents highlighted this, but I won't go into this as it will add more unnecessary drama. In short, as a group, we felt that your attitude towards us was a detrimental effect that we did not appreciate.
I also don't contest that I had my share of conflicts in the past. However, the ultimate reason was not "Craton keeps being a dick" -- saying that much is disingenuous.
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On January 27 2011 16:15 Craton wrote:
This wasn't an argument over how to moderate a thread; I'm not sure where you got that idea?
From the IRC log, apparently. Anyway, since the admins and such are getting involved; good luck resolving this, I'll tune in whenever you're streaming.
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Australia7069 Posts
Ever since craton lost access there has been heaps of proleague games with no streams for at least the first few games. Regardless of the reasons, this is hurting the broodwar community. it'd be really great if the Kpopflash people could white list an IP who would reliably stream, just like craton was, because right now there is a hole in the community's streaming needs that isn't being filled
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On January 27 2011 16:28 Kiante wrote:
Ever since craton lost access there has been heaps of proleague games with no streams for at least the first few games. Regardless of the reasons, this is hurting the broodwar community. it'd be really great if the Kpopflash people could white list an IP who would reliably stream, just like craton was, because right now there is a hole in the community's streaming needs that isn't being filled
It's a bit tough since there's money involved (in paying for the GOMTV account), and since it's a lot of effort to stream, it's easier said than done. (At least from what I'm reading)
Agree with everything else though. Hopefully they can sort something out I guess?
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United States4053 Posts
In terms of the impact on TL as a whole, this is pretty crappy. Craton was a dedicated streamer, and I don't know if anybody can match that dedication.
In terms of the conflict itself, rather than hearing from Craton or the administration of KPF, I'm most interested in hearing from some mods - especially those who focus on SC2 forums. Why? There's likely huge bias on both sides here. I find it difficult to believe that both sides have the same set of evidence/facts AND the same interpretations of those facts. I want to see a take from someone who is emotionally invested in neither KPF nor the BW streams.
That being said, and noting that I myself am supportive of Craton's stream, the OP is pretty damning (although I will reserve judgment for a mod take and Roffles' post later on)
EDIT:
On January 27 2011 16:07 Megaliskuu wrote:
Way to quickstriker it craton :/
way too premature a judgment IMO, unless you have something to add
EDIT 2:
On January 27 2011 16:39 lokiM wrote:
LOL, this is hilarious.. I love how you only post a part of only 1 of the many conversations
You just take shit way too seriously, and to prove it your post only further proves you're a huge dick. KPF GANG > You
yeah this is actually starting to resemble the QuickStriker situation a lot actually, I can see where Megalisk is coming from... even if he didn't intend it this way
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Well this is very sad day, i love cratons stream, and I am just now becoming very bored of SC2, so I think i am going to go back to BroodWar.. in a time like this we need all of the BroodWar streams we can get.. I hope all of this gets worked out, Hate to see drama ruin friendships.
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LOL, this is hilarious.. I love how you only post a part of only 1 of the many conversations
You just take shit way too seriously, and to prove it your post only further indicates that you're a huge dick.
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On January 27 2011 16:35 infinitestory wrote:EDIT: way too premature a judgment IMO, unless you have something to add
I actually don't have anything to add, but he really did quickstricker it, chatlog+emo post. Only difference is that craton actually did useful stuff for the community.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Ugh, can't we all just get along?
First Violet and now this 
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On January 27 2011 16:15 Craton wrote:
I also don't contest that I had my share of conflicts in the past. However, the ultimate reason was not "Craton keeps being a dick" -- saying that much is disingenuous.
The problem was that you gradually grew more distant from the staff at kpf. You're rarely on irc, even when you're clearly online (streaming). When you're on irc, you're a dick to everyone there. Have some respect for other people. Eventually it came to a point where people would say, "Why the fuck is this guy using our bandwidth?" That's why you're banned.
If you cared about anyone at kpf, you wouldn't have posted this.
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OSL finals in a couple days ! it would be a blow to the community if we didnt have streams!
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United States4053 Posts
On January 27 2011 16:42 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 16:15 Craton wrote:
I also don't contest that I had my share of conflicts in the past. However, the ultimate reason was not "Craton keeps being a dick" -- saying that much is disingenuous. The problem was that you gradually grew more distant from the staff at kpf. You're rarely on irc, even when you're clearly online (streaming). When you're on irc, you're a dick to everyone there. Have some respect for other people. Eventually it came to a point where people would say, "Why the fuck is this guy using our bandwidth?" That's why you're banned.
To be fair, I seem to remember Craton leaving his stream on when he went to sleep several times... which caused much hilarity over "NOOOO SWITCH GAMES  " in the past
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On January 27 2011 16:44 a176 wrote:
OSL finals in a couple days ! it would be a blow to the community if we didnt have streams!
No need to worry, there would be plenty.
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Australia7069 Posts
On January 27 2011 16:44 a176 wrote:
OSL finals in a couple days ! it would be a blow to the community if we didnt have streams!
OSL should be fine i know xsebt gets the official stream with no problems, and he'll probably be on for something taht important. ITs the msl streams that are harder. theres no official stream, only people who can restream the chinese plu streams(they need an amazing connection for that) or use afreeca (aka fedor) can get it.
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On January 27 2011 16:44 a176 wrote:
OSL finals in a couple days ! it would be a blow to the community if we didnt have streams!
Major events will always have streams; you don't have to worry about that. It's the regular games that go unseen.
The problem was that you gradually grew more distant from the staff at kpf. You're rarely on irc, even when you're clearly online (streaming). When you're on irc, you're a dick to everyone there. Have some respect for other people.
I'd say being banned from IRC is abrupt, more so than gradual. That's an excuse, either way; all of you had me on MSN or AIM. There was never a "hey, come on IRC while you're streaming;" expecting mind-reading is a bit too much to ask for.
Eventually it came to a point where people would say, "Why the fuck is this guy using our bandwidth?" That's why you're banned.
Perhaps, insofar as you own the site. But on the same token, there was still >1tb of bandwidth left unused every month, so making it sound like streaming BW was costing you anything is misleading.
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I wish this website had a function where you could send messages to users privately without having others having to see this nonsense, get on it r1ch!
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I just hope this gets resolved soon. Craton is a huge contributor to the BW community.
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On January 27 2011 16:57 vectorix108 wrote:
I just hope this gets resolved soon. Craton is a huge contributor to the BW community.
Like they said, reconciliation is impossible now because of the appearance of this blog.
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So much drama.
Ahh fuck it really sucks that you can't stream anymore. Definitely appreciated the free service you provided. Lately it's been quite difficult to find high quality streamers for MBC-channel related games. ;(
Hope everything works out.
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On January 27 2011 16:56 Megaliskuu wrote:
I wish this website had a function where you could send messages to users privately without having others having to see this nonsense, get on it r1ch!
it's called private messaging? and this is a forum, i bet there are sections and threads where only mods are able to view, they arent, so they dont..
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On January 27 2011 17:06 Ixas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 17:03 Amnesia wrote:So much drama. Ahh fuck it really sucks that you can't stream anymore. Definitely appreciated the free service you provided. Lately it's been quite difficult to find high quality streamers for MBC-channel related games. ;( Hope everything works out. Sure it cost him and you nothing, but server cost kpf 100+ a month.
oh shit haha didn't know that
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First violet and now this? Goddammit...
Cant we just get along and let craton stream or he will have a giant hole in the community because of proleague macthes not being streamed anymore and i do not want to wake up at 5 in the morning (CEST) on schooldays to see noone is streaming...
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Please please tell me you're not comparing this situation to somebody getting cancer.
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On January 27 2011 17:06 kaleidoscope wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 16:56 Megaliskuu wrote:
I wish this website had a function where you could send messages to users privately without having others having to see this nonsense, get on it r1ch! it's called private messaging? and this is a forum, i bet there are sections and threads where only mods are able to view, they arent, so they dont..
He was saying that more tongue-in-cheek than literally :p.
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In my chat I had three mods, one of which was Roffles.
Dude, i think roffles was willing to move on from that incident, if he was as heartbroken as you were, he wouldn't have touched on your stream, let alone modding it. So there actually was a chance for reconciliation, but you turned it down. I also think you need to realise that as much as you are a well-known contributor, roffles has a higher status than you, so doing the "an eye for an eye" isn't gonna fare well for you. Too bad this had to happen to a BW streamer, cause thats rather scarce in TL.
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Knowing ruffles he probably did it to piss craton off rofl. Or I am 100% wrong, idk.
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GL Craton, stick it to the man....Im with you 
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Can someone explain what this "reconciliation" is? I don't see KPF posting anything other than saying how it's too late to reconcile. It seems like they are hiding something.
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On January 27 2011 17:58 fold wrote:
Can someone explain what this "reconciliation" is? I don't see KPF posting anything other than saying how it's too late to reconcile. It seems like they are hiding something.
This reconciliation (which hasn't happened yet) is ending the conflict between roffles and craton so that he can stream again. Waiting for the roffles side of the story, if he posts it that is.
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On January 27 2011 18:05 frodoguy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 17:58 fold wrote:
Can someone explain what this "reconciliation" is? I don't see KPF posting anything other than saying how it's too late to reconcile. It seems like they are hiding something.
This reconciliation (which hasn't happened yet) is ending the conflict between roffles and craton so that he can stream again. Waiting for the roffles side of the story, if he posts it that is.
This is assuming KPF wants to reconcile. I don't think they mind that Craton left, quite the opposite.
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that irc text is funny, specially when the KPF members are the ones ruining the kpop thread 
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On January 27 2011 17:58 fold wrote:
Can someone explain what this "reconciliation" is? I don't see KPF posting anything other than saying how it's too late to reconcile. It seems like they are hiding something.
What should they hide???
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
1) I unbanned you one hour after that IRC log was pasted. Your current IRC ban wasn't set by me, even though at times I was kinda itching to.
2) I also have 0 privileges when it comes to managing access to streams. I, like you, cannot whitelist myself, nor can I whitelist anyone else.
I recognize that I am being thrown under the bus for this, but rest assured that I did not do any of this. I will not deny that I might have had some influence in this, but in the end, the decision making is not done by me, but rather by higher ups that have access to configure stream privileges.
I won't deny that we've had some issues in the past, but for the most part I have stuck up for you when others were pretty much shitting on you (Remember the 4 gate incident?). Hell, I was the guy who made you op in the first place back on Invision boards. But I won't deny that there have been incidents where things have fallen apart.
I do admire your dedication to streaming for TL, but throwing me under the bus like this when you haven't even attempted to talk it out with us is kind of low don't you think? I wouldn't have cared if I really did what you claimed I did, but it kind of does hurt when you wake up, and there's a thread on how I basically exiled you, when I didn't.
You seem to feel as if it's just a conflict between you and me. Yes, I won't deny there's a rift because you clearly don't like me, and I really just don't give a fuck lol. But I'm as powerless as you are, so you clearly must have rifts between yourself and others. The situation is much larger than just you vs me.
I don't really care about this thread. Shit happens, and yeah, it makes sense to rant about it at times. I don't blame you at all. But what does irk me is that you made absolutely zero effort to talk it over with me. If you're gonna throw me under the bus, at least attempt to PM me (I do read TL), or MSN/AIM me (I have been online), and talk it over first. Then if you really do think that it's beyond repair, then feel free to make this thread. I'd take the heat 100% if you did this, and you still believed that I was at fault.
Oh btw, here's the IRC log from when I supposedly kicked someone in your chat. I know better than to kick admins in your chat. It's not my fault Ustream doesn't like flooding.
+ Show Spoiler +[04:22] * orangemilkis was kicked by chat06.ustream.tv (Flooding (Limit is 3 lines per 5 seconds)) [04:22] <+crazeh> ghetto tryhards [04:22] <+nanashinKTFingerboom> Spoiler: The boulder wins. [04:22] <+crazeh> but big bang is dope [04:22] <+deafhobbit> remember, its not like they have good music. this is it [04:22] <+mustaju> That would fit almost any Oz match except for this one [04:22] <+MyLifeForBroodWar> I wish I can understand korean like Milkis [04:22] * ustreamer-47880 is now known as orangemilkis [04:22] * chat06.ustream.tv sets mode: +v orangemilkis [04:22] * chat06.ustream.tv sets mode: +v orangemilkis [04:22] <+orangemilkis> craton control the kicks please [04:23] <+Charuru> oh i like this guy [04:23] <+orangemilkis> how am i suppoosed to spam and bash bad kpop [04:23] <+Charuru> he isn't toally lame [04:23] <+orangemilkis> if i get kicked every 5 lines [04:23] <+FatCat91> sick lip synch skillz [04:23] <~Cratonz> Don't blame me [04:23] <+nanashinKTFingerboom> I wish I could understand death metal barks like Boes. [04:23] <+FatCat91> 1337 [04:23] * Cratonz sets mode: -o Selffor [04:23] <+orangemilkis> should i blame roffles instead [04:23] * Cratonz sets mode: +o orangemilkis [04:23] <~Cratonz> Probably [04:23] <@orangemilkis> but this is seriously a bad song and terribad lyrics [04:23] <+Selffor> ? [04:23] <+Selffor> i didnt kick anything I was then de-op'd for doing nothing.
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On January 27 2011 16:39 lokiM wrote:
LOL, this is hilarious.. I love how you only post a part of only 1 of the many conversations
You just take shit way too seriously, and to prove it your post only further indicates that you're a huge dick.
Ironic.
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On January 27 2011 16:42 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 16:15 Craton wrote:
I also don't contest that I had my share of conflicts in the past. However, the ultimate reason was not "Craton keeps being a dick" -- saying that much is disingenuous. The problem was that you gradually grew more distant from the staff at kpf. You're rarely on irc, even when you're clearly online (streaming). When you're on irc, you're a dick to everyone there. Have some respect for other people. Eventually it came to a point where people would say, "Why the fuck is this guy using our bandwidth?" That's why you're banned. If you cared about anyone at kpf, you wouldn't have posted this.
Id just like to ask why you didnt bring this up with him earlier, sent a pm, or done anything except let it pile up, from what ive see Craton had no idea how bad things were, and a talk before all of this might have solved it all. Also banning someone/taking away access without sending an explanation or anything is not really nice, if Craton couldn't get the reasons the other way, I dont see why he shoud not have made this thread. But in the end, these are you private affairs, even though they affect the community at large, and im sure there is a whole lot to your side too, it just irks me to see *we didnt like you, and you should have stayed quiet*. I simply feel this could have been avoided with talking and not letting it all pile up for no reason.
all this powergaming and bullshit is below you fine tl.net members (all of you).
EDIT: well now that Roffles has filled out his post it makes more sense. Theres really no way for me to judge who did what and who is at fault because these are your private affairs, I just wish it could have somehow been solved without all this conflict, as im sure all of you do too.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On January 27 2011 21:27 besiger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 16:42 T.O.P. wrote:On January 27 2011 16:15 Craton wrote:
I also don't contest that I had my share of conflicts in the past. However, the ultimate reason was not "Craton keeps being a dick" -- saying that much is disingenuous. The problem was that you gradually grew more distant from the staff at kpf. You're rarely on irc, even when you're clearly online (streaming). When you're on irc, you're a dick to everyone there. Have some respect for other people. Eventually it came to a point where people would say, "Why the fuck is this guy using our bandwidth?" That's why you're banned. If you cared about anyone at kpf, you wouldn't have posted this. Id just like to ask why you didnt bring this up with him earlier, sent a pm, or done anything except let it pile up, from what ive see Craton had no idea how bad things were, and a talk before all of this might have solved it all. Also banning someone/taking away access without sending an explanation or anything is not really nice, if Craton couldn't get the reasons the other way, I dont see why he shoud not have made this thread. But in the end, these are you private affairs, even though they affect the community at large, I simply feel this could have been avoided with talking and not letting it all pile up for no reason. all this powergaming and bullshit is below you fine tl.net members (all of you).
I talked to Craton on msn the same day he was banned. I told him to be patient and come back when it blows over and that he should be tactful when he comes back. But he decided to martyr himself instead.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Edited out, please refer to post up top.
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Well, this thread is much too civilized compared to other drama threads. Not that I mind =P
I still see that reconciliation is possible. All it takes is a couple of guys to consume a couple man-pride potions and throw a few apologies back and forth. I think we (TL) basically want dedicated SCBW streamers streaming matches.
Sucks it had to come down to this, but maybe this is for the better. Hope it all works out guys!
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On January 27 2011 15:13 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 15:10 sung_moon wrote:sup my brother. i don't appreciate the fact that i'm getting dissed there!!! I didn't diss you? You're my 2nd favorite person from KPF.
I'm #1 right. I really wasn't around on irc for any of this either so I can't say I know any details of it. I know it seemed like there was some distinct tension growing between Craton and the group but that was all I picked up when popping in and out of irc.
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So the problem was lack of communication on both sides and T.O.P. saying that he shouldn't do anything and just wait?
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Reconciliation is still possible now despite "respect being thrown out of the window with this blog". All this drama is so childish and should be restricted to kids, not adults!
What I get from this is that there was a severe LACK of communication between the parties involved. No one knew who exactly was banning/kicking/de-oping who, and Craton was on the receiving end (and the giving end as well). His attitude may have been anti-reconciliatory since the banning, but there is no need to burn off all bridges permanently just because of this. If I were him, I would be fuming with anger at myself and others regardless of what they did, after such an incident. I would even have put up such a blog as well, even if martyring myself in the process...
Please, do this for the TL community. We appreciate Craton's amazing devotion to BW streaming, especially on less important PL days when no one else is streaming, and if he is out of the picture, there will be quite a void in the TL streams at least until someone else picks up his reins. Get back together, folks! =3
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Every time I've visited KPopFlash or entered a Starcraft stream chat associated with KPopFlash it's just been an endless parade of moderators being irate for no reason and shitting out bad jokes at the expense of the viewers or each other. That's the public face you guys are putting on your activities. Maybe you won't have these kinds of problems if you stop being such try-hards all the time.
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On January 27 2011 23:50 McDonalds wrote:
Every time I've visited KPopFlash or entered a Starcraft stream chat associated with KPopFlash it's just been an endless parade of moderators being irate for no reason and shitting out bad jokes at the expense of the viewers or each other. That's the public face you guys are putting on your activities. Maybe you won't have these kinds of problems if you stop being such try-hards all the time.
That sums it up for me. I know it is none of our business, but somethings just come off as petty. The fact this blog can exist is sad.
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omg the stream with clean overlayz
thanks for your service!
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Calgary25980 Posts
I like your BW stream. It's very well organized, streams both games, and I actually do enjoy the kpop in between sets. Even though I don't really like the songs more often than not, it's something to look at and it kills time very effectively between sets.
Airing dirty laundry like this is a pretty weak move. The teamliquid post you referenced where you complain about reposts makes you look really bad. The comment about there being over 1TB of unused bandwidth remaining also makes you look bad. It seems like you are of the opinion that leftovers should be given out for free.
I can see where the kpf group are coming from. If they pay for something and distribute it to members who no longer appreciate or respect them, of course they are justified in revoking access.
Anyway, I can't say anything further since I don't know the entire situation, but it does suck that you won't be streaming BW anymore.
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On January 27 2011 23:50 McDonalds wrote:
Every time I've visited KPopFlash or entered a Starcraft stream chat associated with KPopFlash it's just been an endless parade of moderators being irate for no reason and shitting out bad jokes at the expense of the viewers or each other. That's the public face you guys are putting on your activities. Maybe you won't have these kinds of problems if you stop being such try-hards all the time.
Sadly I agree with this, I have avoided kpop-related streamers when possible because of the ego tripping that goes on there. Then again I don't like Kpop so it barely affects me, and Moktira/Nevake provide very quick uploads these days. Thanks for the streaming while it lasted.
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On January 27 2011 21:20 Roffles wrote:Oh btw, here's the IRC log from when I supposedly kicked someone in your chat. I know better than to kick admins in your chat. It's not my fault Ustream doesn't like flooding. + Show Spoiler +[04:22] * orangemilkis was kicked by chat06.ustream.tv (Flooding (Limit is 3 lines per 5 seconds)) [04:22] <+crazeh> ghetto tryhards [04:22] <+nanashinKTFingerboom> Spoiler: The boulder wins. [04:22] <+crazeh> but big bang is dope [04:22] <+deafhobbit> remember, its not like they have good music. this is it [04:22] <+mustaju> That would fit almost any Oz match except for this one [04:22] <+MyLifeForBroodWar> I wish I can understand korean like Milkis [04:22] * ustreamer-47880 is now known as orangemilkis [04:22] * chat06.ustream.tv sets mode: +v orangemilkis [04:22] * chat06.ustream.tv sets mode: +v orangemilkis [04:22] <+orangemilkis> craton control the kicks please [04:23] <+Charuru> oh i like this guy [04:23] <+orangemilkis> how am i suppoosed to spam and bash bad kpop [04:23] <+Charuru> he isn't toally lame [04:23] <+orangemilkis> if i get kicked every 5 lines [04:23] <+FatCat91> sick lip synch skillz [04:23] <~Cratonz> Don't blame me [04:23] <+nanashinKTFingerboom> I wish I could understand death metal barks like Boes. [04:23] <+FatCat91> 1337 [04:23] * Cratonz sets mode: -o Selffor [04:23] <+orangemilkis> should i blame roffles instead [04:23] * Cratonz sets mode: +o orangemilkis [04:23] <~Cratonz> Probably [04:23] <@orangemilkis> but this is seriously a bad song and terribad lyrics [04:23] <+Selffor> ? [04:23] <+Selffor> i didnt kick anything I was then de-op'd for doing nothing.
Didn't I also bash Roffles for the same exact reason? I thought I was kicked in the middle, but it was all due to stupid UStream's flooding detection system.
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As usual in these situations, everyone involved deserves a little blame.
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1+tb free bandwidth, some people should apply!!! (bw streaming only o/c) 
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Way to give a big huge "fuck you" to all the people on TL who want to watch BW. And you wonder why people hate kpop...
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SHIT JUST GOT REAL.
Cratons my homeboy! And I really think he was right in that he made people strive for higer posting standards on the KPop thread.
And even if he was outta line, power-mongering is not a mature way of dealing with a minor issue.
After seeing the fat chick on FedoR's stream today, I was wishing for Cratons awesome fillers which usually are really good imo. (Luv you too Fedor!)
Also thanks for letting us all in on the matter. Craton FTW!!
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On January 27 2011 23:10 Chaos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 15:13 Craton wrote:On January 27 2011 15:10 sung_moon wrote:sup my brother. i don't appreciate the fact that i'm getting dissed there!!! I didn't diss you? You're my 2nd favorite person from KPF. I'm #1 right. I really wasn't around on irc for any of this either so I can't say I know any details of it. I know it seemed like there was some distinct tension growing between Craton and the group but that was all I picked up when popping in and out of irc.
ur my favoriter KPF'er yonghwa
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On January 28 2011 09:49 SushilS wrote:
SHIT JUST GOT REAL.
Cratons my homeboy! And I really think he was right in that he made people strive for higer posting standards on the KPop thread.
And even if he was outta line, power-mongering is not a mature way of dealing with a minor issue.
After seeing the fat chick on FedoR's stream today, I was wishing for Cratons awesome fillers which usually are really good imo. (Luv you too Fedor!)
Also thanks for letting us all in on the matter. Craton FTW!!
No, that fat chick on fedor's stream is actually a guy.
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On January 28 2011 09:27 Weasel- wrote:
Way to give a big huge "fuck you" to all the people on TL who want to watch BW. And you wonder why people hate kpop...
Oh really? And it isn't because of the "kpop" that got you the BW stream in the first place? No fucking appreciation at all.
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I hope there can be some sort of reconciliation despite all that's happened.
For those of you shitting on the kpopflash group, do keep in mind that the source they have secured is not easily replaceable. Especially the fact that they reliably always have a MBCGame stream (a very clear one, at that) all the time. When Craton relayed the kpopflash streams to us, he was still relying on it.
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all the kpopflash people are going ham on craton lol. harshhh.
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EPT
