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Blogs > Sufficiency
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Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 25 2010 08:58 GMT
#1
Instead of calling Good Game (gg), I think it's better for the losing player to say "Well Played" (wp) when conceding to defeat.

1. From a winning player's perspective:

I am not sure if every game I win is a good game. In fact, sometimes my opponent is so weak that I just a-move over him - it's BORING because he offers no resistance. Then as he is about to lose, he says "gg"? How is the game good? Did he say that to boost his ego that he played well against my abilities?

No.

It takes two players to make a good game (at least in 1v1). To have the losing player calling "gg" is to reassure a certain level of abilities - when it is not true - is certainly very rude.

2. From a losing player's perspective:

First of all, it's polite. Saying "Well played" reassures your opponent's ability. No one dislikes compliments. But more importantly, what if my opponent cheesed me? Do I also say "gg"?

No.

In that case I think my opponent played well, but the game was not a "good game", which most of the Starcraft fans refer to long macro games. I think saying "well played" more accurately describes the game.

+ Show Spoiler +
Of course, saying 'gg' is just a convention so there is no need to change it now.



**
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-25 09:04:29
December 25 2010 09:03 GMT
#2
But more importantly, what if my opponent cheesed me? Do I also say "gg"?

No.

In that case I think my opponent played welll


Yeah, no. Cheese isn't playing well. You dont have to do any thinking, and the mechanics required could be carried out by a 4 year old
Cheese may sometimes be a good decision, or the right one, but if someone cheeses they do not have the scope to play well. Its a cheese. By definition that means you are giving up thought and effort to shoot for a chance at the EASY win. Its called an easy win for a reason.
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Entropic
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2837 Posts
December 25 2010 09:09 GMT
#3
On December 25 2010 18:03 TheAntZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
But more importantly, what if my opponent cheesed me? Do I also say "gg"?

No.

In that case I think my opponent played welll


Yeah, no. Cheese isn't playing well. You dont have to do any thinking, and the mechanics required could be carried out by a 4 year old
Cheese may sometimes be a good decision, or the right one, but if someone cheeses they do not have the scope to play well. Its a cheese. By definition that means you are giving up thought and effort to shoot for a chance at the EASY win. Its called an easy win for a reason.


Yep... Jaedong 4pooled TWICE one series, such a vivid demonstration of not having "the scope to play well".
zOula...
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States898 Posts
December 25 2010 09:10 GMT
#4
gg has been around since the dawn of time, why change it now?
eLiE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada1039 Posts
December 25 2010 09:21 GMT
#5
Sigh, it's just a textual handshake, don't go over analyzing it. If you choose not to shake hands with someone because you're better than them or because you don't agree with their methods of play, then so be it. But really, come on, who cares? Wanna say nothing, wp, gg, fuck you noob, imba, it doesn't really matter.
How's the weather down there?
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-25 09:33:51
December 25 2010 09:32 GMT
#6
On December 25 2010 18:09 Entropic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 25 2010 18:03 TheAntZ wrote:
But more importantly, what if my opponent cheesed me? Do I also say "gg"?

No.

In that case I think my opponent played welll


Yeah, no. Cheese isn't playing well. You dont have to do any thinking, and the mechanics required could be carried out by a 4 year old
Cheese may sometimes be a good decision, or the right one, but if someone cheeses they do not have the scope to play well. Its a cheese. By definition that means you are giving up thought and effort to shoot for a chance at the EASY win. Its called an easy win for a reason.


Yep... Jaedong 4pooled TWICE one series, such a vivid demonstration of not having "the scope to play well".


Yes, im sure he demonstrated remarkable jaw dropping awe inspiring skill in those games
I didnt say a player who cheeses is skilless, rather you cant demonstrate any actual skill in a game where you cheese. Its a coinflip, you either win it or you dont. Dont quote me if you dont understand what im saying.
In fact dont quote me ever. Seeing something I wrote in association with the name of one of you terran whiners makes me feel dirty
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Shika
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Sweden1711 Posts
December 25 2010 10:04 GMT
#7
I always say "gg wp" when I lose. Regardless of how the game looked, I like being polite.

I've also made some good practice partners who have messaged me after a game wanting to play more, they hardly would if I nerdraged and behaved like a child after losing a game.

Be friendly to other people and they will be friendly back.

If you prefer acting like a keyboard warrior or internet badass, well that's just sad, but you'll probably grow up eventually.
Mora
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada5235 Posts
December 25 2010 10:09 GMT
#8
On December 25 2010 18:03 TheAntZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
But more importantly, what if my opponent cheesed me? Do I also say "gg"?

No.

In that case I think my opponent played welll


Yeah, no. Cheese isn't playing well. You dont have to do any thinking, and the mechanics required could be carried out by a 4 year old
Cheese may sometimes be a good decision, or the right one, but if someone cheeses they do not have the scope to play well. Its a cheese. By definition that means you are giving up thought and effort to shoot for a chance at the EASY win. Its called an easy win for a reason.


i've both seen and pulled off some very elegant cheese.

going to have to disagree with you here.
Happiness only real when shared.
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
December 25 2010 10:29 GMT
#9
On December 25 2010 19:09 Mora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 25 2010 18:03 TheAntZ wrote:
But more importantly, what if my opponent cheesed me? Do I also say "gg"?

No.

In that case I think my opponent played welll


Yeah, no. Cheese isn't playing well. You dont have to do any thinking, and the mechanics required could be carried out by a 4 year old
Cheese may sometimes be a good decision, or the right one, but if someone cheeses they do not have the scope to play well. Its a cheese. By definition that means you are giving up thought and effort to shoot for a chance at the EASY win. Its called an easy win for a reason.


i've both seen and pulled off some very elegant cheese.

going to have to disagree with you here.


Id definitely agree with you about cheese possibly being elegant in BW, but I cant fathom being able to say that about sc2 cheese
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Seltsam
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States343 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-25 11:08:41
December 25 2010 11:07 GMT
#10
You're taking "gg" too literally. It's not actually something that means "that was a good game." It's just a social pleasantry.

Either way, you run into the same problem you seem to be trying to avoid because "wp" would just be the social pleasantry that takes the place of "gg." People might still say "wp" if the opponent didn't play particularly well.
Team Limited ftw! www.teamltd.net
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
December 25 2010 11:10 GMT
#11
Look at GG more like the handshaking after a game a chess and less like a statement
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
December 25 2010 11:18 GMT
#12
Personally, I am tired of the whole gg idea altogether.

I only gg now if it's actually a good game or I really feel like being polite. If I lose because of something stupid or just get straight out stomped, the game isn't close and wasn't a good game. If the game IS an actual good, relatively long and even, game, then I will gg.

Back to the politeness factor, I don't think a gg is a requirement. If I am losing, I don't need to announce that I am conceding to defeat...it's pretty obvious as soon as I leave the game. My opponent just destroyed all my buildings and army that I carefully made; why would I feel a need to be polite to this person. I understand it's a game but the game IS war, and unless it's a chill friend I am playing against (even some of them I don't gg to) or the game was good itself, then I feel there is no need to say "gg".
Entropic
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2837 Posts
December 25 2010 11:20 GMT
#13
On December 25 2010 18:32 TheAntZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 25 2010 18:09 Entropic wrote:
On December 25 2010 18:03 TheAntZ wrote:
But more importantly, what if my opponent cheesed me? Do I also say "gg"?

No.

In that case I think my opponent played welll


Yeah, no. Cheese isn't playing well. You dont have to do any thinking, and the mechanics required could be carried out by a 4 year old
Cheese may sometimes be a good decision, or the right one, but if someone cheeses they do not have the scope to play well. Its a cheese. By definition that means you are giving up thought and effort to shoot for a chance at the EASY win. Its called an easy win for a reason.


Yep... Jaedong 4pooled TWICE one series, such a vivid demonstration of not having "the scope to play well".


Yes, im sure he demonstrated remarkable jaw dropping awe inspiring skill in those games
I didnt say a player who cheeses is skilless, rather you cant demonstrate any actual skill in a game where you cheese. Its a coinflip, you either win it or you dont. Dont quote me if you dont understand what im saying.
In fact dont quote me ever. Seeing something I wrote in association with the name of one of you terran whiners makes me feel dirty


After looking up the dictionary definition of scope, you are correct (scope = aim or purpose, I was thinking it was "the potential/ability to play well"). I would argue however, that 4 pool does require quite a bit of micro.

As an aside: But what I don't understand is this vitriolic hatred towards me playing Terran (I'm not even a whiner?) and what this has to do with the discussion? Do I have to apologize for playing this race - my zerg offrace is also pretty good... Seeing something I wrote in association with the name of one of you who use off-topic ad hominems makes me feel dirty. Internet forums are srs bsns.
HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
December 25 2010 11:26 GMT
#14
I usually say wp if my opponent just completely blindsides me. Like if I scout a bunker and double gas and then all of a sudden he marine scv rushes me I'm like: "Oh you cheeky devil, well played."
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
December 25 2010 12:30 GMT
#15
On December 25 2010 20:20 Entropic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 25 2010 18:32 TheAntZ wrote:
On December 25 2010 18:09 Entropic wrote:
On December 25 2010 18:03 TheAntZ wrote:
But more importantly, what if my opponent cheesed me? Do I also say "gg"?

No.

In that case I think my opponent played welll


Yeah, no. Cheese isn't playing well. You dont have to do any thinking, and the mechanics required could be carried out by a 4 year old
Cheese may sometimes be a good decision, or the right one, but if someone cheeses they do not have the scope to play well. Its a cheese. By definition that means you are giving up thought and effort to shoot for a chance at the EASY win. Its called an easy win for a reason.


Yep... Jaedong 4pooled TWICE one series, such a vivid demonstration of not having "the scope to play well".


Yes, im sure he demonstrated remarkable jaw dropping awe inspiring skill in those games
I didnt say a player who cheeses is skilless, rather you cant demonstrate any actual skill in a game where you cheese. Its a coinflip, you either win it or you dont. Dont quote me if you dont understand what im saying.
In fact dont quote me ever. Seeing something I wrote in association with the name of one of you terran whiners makes me feel dirty


After looking up the dictionary definition of scope, you are correct (scope = aim or purpose, I was thinking it was "the potential/ability to play well"). I would argue however, that 4 pool does require quite a bit of micro.

As an aside: But what I don't understand is this vitriolic hatred towards me playing Terran (I'm not even a whiner?) and what this has to do with the discussion? Do I have to apologize for playing this race - my zerg offrace is also pretty good... Seeing something I wrote in association with the name of one of you who use off-topic ad hominems makes me feel dirty. Internet forums are srs bsns.


Im sorry, i may have confused you with another poster with the same icon that whines a lot in a haze of coffee induced rage
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
December 25 2010 12:38 GMT
#16
I love GG
It's one of the symbolic things of e-sports.
The insanely mind-flippingly loud GEEEEEEE GEEEEEEE at the end of each game make me feel all fuzzy and warm inside.
[TLMS] REBOOT
Crankenstein
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia150 Posts
December 25 2010 13:18 GMT
#17
The insanely mind-flippingly loud GEEEEEEE GEEEEEEE at the end of each game make me feel all fuzzy and warm inside.


This.

If my opponent played well though I say so and often ask a question/compliment them on something they did. If my opponent was an ass and smack-talked their way through the whole game I say nothing.
blahman3344
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2015 Posts
December 25 2010 14:50 GMT
#18
I never really thought to question the use of "gg" in a game. I think the use is kind of similar to (though I might be horribly wrong) "good night" when someone is about to sleep whereas "sweet dreams" would be more applicable. Aside from that, I just use "gg" as a formality, whether it's cheese or straight-up play (though depending on how bm my opponent is, I either say "gg =)" to piss him off further, or I just leave without the gg if i'm furious).
I like haikus and / I can not lie. You other / brothers can't deny
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
December 25 2010 14:56 GMT
#19
gg is a tradition, doesn't matter if you don't think it makes sense, it's staying.

Also, cheese is skill, you wouldn't beat a much better player just because you're cheesing, if you think this you're an idiot. Also if you lose to cheese it's your fault.

Fucking noobs who tries to blame their lose on something as "cheese". Makes me so mad...
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
December 25 2010 15:41 GMT
#20
I thought saying "gg" just meant "You win".

It's like we say "you got owned"...but nobody thinks we're actually saying "You got caught by someone and now you're that person's possession."
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
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