Hello everyone, let me first say that I am somewhat of a movie enthusiast. I started watching popular/famous movies about 2 years back and really getting into them, analyzing what makes them so good, popular, or bad. There have been some excellent movies I have watched, and some disappointing ones.
With that said I just finally finished watching it and I have to say... I was disappointed. Firstly, it moved very slowly. After the first 10 minutes in the hotel room, the movie seemed to slog on, until the plot was finally revealed an hour in(Woo Jin gave Dae Su the choice of revenge or truth). You could say that there was plot in between then, but really? Dae Sun met a girl which was painfully obvious that something was up(true I didn't predict it was incest but falling in love like that is not normal in any sense).
A second thing I'd like to comment on are the action scenes. While at my first glance they seemed pretty cool, after they went on for a bit I started to notice that they were terribly unrealistic(I shouldn't expect realism out of one man taking on twenty-five). What I was most concerned with was the camera. It should have centered on him and the guys he was fighting, not everyone. Because it showed everyone, it also showed the guys who weren't fighting him, who were just standing there in an action pose. It killed the immersion and realism for me. In a well-executed and performed action scene, the main fighter will look like hes taking on many fighters that are actually doing something. May I point you to this scene:
Notice how the camera is close in on the fight, showing only who is fighting.
The plot twist was good and well-done, though it would have been much better if supported by a better middle movie.
I tried to like this film, but after it was over I felt unsatisfied - I just didn't enjoy it. I apologize if I insulted any die-hard fans of the film, I would just like to offer my take on this movie that seemed so highly appraised.
To other people which still may not have gotten it: The OP is referring to Korean film called "Oldboy"- I never watched it, but to my understanding it was some sort of suspense movie?
A second thing I'd like to comment on are the action scenes. While at my first glance they seemed pretty cool, after they went on for a bit I started to notice that they were terribly unrealistic(I shouldn't expect realism out of one man taking on twenty-five). What I was most concerned with was the camera. It should have centered on him and the guys he was fighting, not everyone. Because it showed everyone, it also showed the guys who weren't fighting him, who were just standing there in an action pose. It killed the immersion and realism for me. In a well-executed and performed action scene, the main fighter will look like hes taking on many fighters that are actually doing something. May I point you to this scene:
That narrow hallway fight scene has been praised for realism. It was very unique how it stayed in one shot as opposed to the cliche hollywood action scene. The brutal violence is realistic and gritty. You seem to ignore it takes place in a narrow hallway, they cant easily surround him. Also the characters are suppose to be local thugs/bums not trained martial arts assassins, not to mention most of them seem deathly afraid of Oh Daesu as the fight goes on
Well actually like the guy above me said, the narrow hallway scene is actually quite realistic. If there is a narrow hallway a lot of those who are a little in the back will be kinda forced to just stand by and watch since they cant get to their opponent without first getting rid of their hallway-blocking friends. Also, none of those are martial artist, they are brawlers who are just bound to get a little scared and hesitant after the first bunch of their friends got beat with a freakin hammer. And anyway i find the athmosphere in that scene to be one of the best i've seen so far ... not to mention that your example of an action scene is kinda ... well flawed since its out of an not-existing movie (just referring to http://xkcd.com/566/ here)
I loved this movie. I think most of your criticisms are valid, as they are a matter of perspective.
However, I think your argument about the fight scene is stupid. Yes, I'm actually going to use that word. It's stupid because the example you give detracts from the criticism you're trying to make more than anything. Also, Oldboy was never meant to be an action flick (despite having some brilliantly executed action sequences), so it seems pointless to hold that against the film, but hey, since we're on the subject....
Burly Brawl from Reloaded? Realistic? Huh?
The hallway fight in Oldboy feels much more "genuine" to me because it was shot in a single take, and doesn't make gratuitous use of fast cuts and close-ups (which Hollywood movies typically use to cover up amateur choreography) or over-the-top CGI (save for the knife sticking out of Oh Dae-su's back, which was the only piece of CGI used in the scene).
The scene was shot in a way to resemble a side-scrolling beat-em-up game, and it shows. Also, the protagonist and his opponents aren't superhuman and show visible signs of tiring out throughout the fight. None of the combatants fight like bona fide Jackie Chans in the making either... just good old regular joe punches, kicks, and hammers to the face. It's not strictly meant to be realistic, yet it has a very gritty and down-to-earth feel. I thought it was brilliant.
Burly Brawl, not so much. I think it holds a certain charm due to its "cool" factor and the sheer absurdity of it all, but realism and immersion are the last things that come to mind when I watch that scene.
the best korean film i've seen is Memories of Murder, I highly recommend it. Oldboy was good but it was VERY korean-esque, meaning you probably couldn't completely understand the meaning unless you were korean or knew about asian cinema, I loved the very last scene I think it was still a good watch
I really cant believe you just said the Matrix Reloaded fight was better then the Oldboy fight scene.
All of the points have been said, so no need to repeat them. Fun fact though, the director had the main character do that take 6 times to make the main character so tired so that it is more realistic.
One of the aspects I liked about Oldboy was the ending. This wasnt some traditional movie where the director spoon feeds you the ending, the ending leaves the viewer to wonder whether or not Dae-su actually remembered or not. Personal thing, but I think endings like that are awesome.
Which Korean films are realistic? This is a very *Korean* film. Don't expect realistic fight scenes. Expect WTF moments ... like that knife or ax in his back during the single-shot take of the fight scene (that's how you appreciate ... the fact, I think, that it was a single-shot take ... which is difficult to do in movies). TLers have hyped Old Boy too much so that ppl come into it with unrealistic expectations.
On May 06 2010 14:13 Rekrul wrote: if you don't like oldboy you are stupid and don't understand the plot
or you used to have incest with ur sister and u've been blocking it out all these years
Say, what? That was an unnecessary insult.
I agree with the other comments though. If you want a good by-the-book plot, shocking but unrealistic special effects and angles; Don't look beyond Hollywood!
I disagree about the fight scene angle. It made it feel less produced. It was a unique perspective that gave off kind of a chaos and stumbling about of the henchmen(and the guy) that made it seem like a thug vs thug brawl- not neo vs darth maul. They used timing too to make it long and drawn out to give you the sense of tiring and disorganization of that melee.
As for the movie.. I had it spoiled before watching it so it kind of killed the big moment. However I still enjoyed the experience... that kind of neurotic unreal mood was done really well. I want to say kind of like Fight Club (not saying its as good).
I'll agree though, if you bought into hype too much it might be a downer, but that goes for anything.
It`s a great move. That`s all there is to it. And that fight scene is great. Sympathy for mr Vengeance and Lady Vengeance are ok, but not as good as Oldboy imo. It kind of reminds me of Fight Club in how it does a 180 near the end.
I loved Oldboy so I recommended it to my friends and they hated it. I think it's a love it or hate it movie. I've never heard anyone complain about the action scene though, that scene is universally accepted as baller.
EPT
