I wanted to start a thread about the upcoming documentary show on HBO, produced by Bill Maher and VICE Magazine, based on their popular website and free magazine. I was wondering if anyone else had interest in VICE, their style of journalism, and its value.
... the show will be hosted by VICE founder Shane Smith, along with a selection of our top correspondents who you will already be very familiar with if you're a regular visitor to this site. The rest of the crew will be rounded out by fellow HBO iconoclast Bill Maher, who will serve as the show's executive producer, and real-deal newsman's man Fareed Zakaria will serve as a consultant.
Why do I care? Because VICE is gonzo-journalism at its finest, and the often blur the line of what journalists or documentarians can and can't do.
In fact they made big waves today by infiltrating the upper echelons of North Korean's regime and meeting Kim Jong-Un.
Earlier today former Chicago Bulls superstar Dennis Rodman presided over a mixed-match basketball game in Pyongyang, North Korea, alongside Supreme Leader Kim Jong-un. The teams consisted of VICE correspondent Ryan Duffy, Moose Weekes, Buckets Blakes, and Bull Bullard of the Harlem Globetrotters, and North Korea's "Dream Team," all of whom played their hearts out in what we have termed a "basketball diplomacy" mission. Following the game, Rodman gave a stirring speech that extended an olive branch to the Hermit Kingdom. The VICE crew is currently having a reception at the Supreme Leader's house, and Duffy has invited Kim Jung-Un to America for a tour of the VICE offices. There isn't much more to say than that because our jaws are still on the floor.
Now, a related thread about this got closed today, because it was dismissed as a crazy basketball celebrity doing something crazy. But what the VICE and HBO crew have managed to do is gain an unprecedented level of access to one of the most reclusive and dangerous men in the world. By orchestrating a celebrity basketball game with Dennis Rodman, they stirred up a lot of discussion in news circles about the role and responsibility of journalists in the process.
It's like Morgan Spurlock actually finding Osama Bin Laden, and getting footage of them splitting a pitcher of beer.
American journalists and tourists are NOT allowed in Korea, other than to see the Arirang Mass Games. There are put on strict tour of monuments to their Dear Leader, accompanied by armed guards and other 'tourists' that are actually secret police. If you are caught with any modern technology other than a point and shoot camera — a cellphone, a laptop, video camera, even new CDs or magazines — you can be imprisoned in a country notorious for political prisoners, slave labor camps, torture and rumors of cannibalism driven by famine.
Over the past few years, Shane Smith and Vice have been one of the few sources of documentation inside North Korean of North Korean culture and life.
In short, if Kim Jung-Un is as merciless and tyrannical and his father, and he discovered that this celebrity basketball games was excuse to document and satirize parts of North Korean life and governance that haven't been seen for decades, the Vice crew would be in deep, deep shit.
What's really interesting about the VICE is their level of irreverance makes them willing to put themselves and their journalist at risk -- but not just physically. They seem to have very little obligation to 'journalistic integrity' other than trying anything and being honest with themselves. It also begs the question of whether or not journalists have moral obligations.
On the one hand, they're getting drunk, up close and personal with the dictator of most secretive and xenophobic country on the planet. It's an opportunity that heads of state and diplomats have trouble getting.
On the other hand, they're partying with a dictator that is presiding over a country ravaged by famine and dotted with concentration camps. Gawker's take on VICE's antics is less than impressed.
Anyway, thoughts? I've always admired VICE's work. They cover international news and stories that other organizations simply don't have the balls to touch.
to comment on the Noth Korea part... today i read in a german newspaper (link) that AP journalists are now able to keep their smartphones and make photos. and even post them on instagram.
it's a small step but better than nothing ...
The new guy in korea at least went to school in switzerland. Maybe he still has some soul.
On March 01 2013 12:54 Gaga wrote: to comment on the Noth Korea part... today i read in a german newspaper (link) that AP journalists are now able to keep their smartphones and make photos. and even post them on instagram.
it's a small step but better than nothing ...
The new guy in korea at least went to school in switzerland. Maybe he still has some soul.
I think it's wishful thinking to think that Kim Jong Un is going to run his country any differently from his father. He might be more open to Western culture, but they just did an underground nuke test a couple of weeks ago and still rule their citizens with an iron fist. They perceive Western democracy and values as a threat to their existence ... unless you are arguably the greatest defensive player on the greatest basketball team of all time. Then you're cool.
On March 01 2013 19:35 Kukaracha wrote: Vice is fun, but terrible "journalism". Their sensationalist work often deforms reality by a great deal to make it more "marketable".
What they do is definitely not documentary though, as there is little preparation before and little information gained from their reports.
You're right ... it's not 'journalism' because part of the appeal and drama of the story is the fish-out-of-water VICE reporter facing unknown or dangerous situations. It's more akin to a travel or adventure-log — like being the Anthony Bourdain of war, drugs, crime and sex.
At the same time, I feel what VICE's approach to news reveals how fake and manufactured most news drama and documentaries are. I can't put my finger on it, but there's something more honest about a VICE reporter riding a drunk train out to Siberia, than watching Morgan Spurlock or Michael Moore shove microphones in people's faces and try to create on-camera "Gotcha!" moments.
VICE reporters don't hide their lack of knowledge, sophistication or their biases on-camera, which to me is more honest than faux ideologues/"experts" pushing their agendas with second-hand information.
I think the show has a lot potential, because of their cavalier-approach. I remember reading about how Anderson Cooper started out — by literally making fake press credentials and just flying to warzones. He basically built credibility by doing things other news agencies weren't willing to even try to do.
I really dislike a lot of VICE's "drug culture" reporting, as it really supports some rather narrow minded conceptions of those who are interested in such things. Sometimes I feel like I can practically smell the patchouli through my computer screen . That being said, I really like the VICE guide series, particularly their bit on Karachi, and HBO is my TV go-to, so I'll definitely tune in and see what the deal is.
On March 02 2013 03:05 sLiMpoweR wrote: who won the basketball game
And I wonder by how much
"Thursday’s game ended in a 110-110 draw, with two Americans playing on each team alongside North Koreans, Detrick said. The Xinhua News Agency first reported on the game, citing witnesses who attended."
Not sure why the OP is constructed the way it is. The show on HBO is not going to just be about N. Korea. It's a lot more wide-ranging than that. Trust me. I know
Documentaries are not to be confused with journalism as i see many people here tend to do. Documentaries do not reflect reality, they are an argument of whoever is making the documentary and as such will be skewed and editted to get said point across. Nowhere does documentaries claim to show or reveal the truth, and if they do they do so falsely.
It is so due to the medium of film and the choices involved in making any form of film. Be they editorial, people chosen to appear but also from the company it keeps - fictional film. I can elaborate on a lot of this but it all boils down to the fact that to show "reality" you have to show completely uneditted footage, and even then the mere presence of the camera changes how things turn out and happen. It's quite complicated but one can say that nobody can really define the documentary as a genre, not for a lack of trying though as many film theorists have attempted to do so and gotten nowhere. It is however not close to journalism or any form of "reality"
I like the videos they make, as off putting as some of them are. It is definitely sensational, and you shouldn't take everything in them at face value but they are entertaining as hell. Hopefully now when I reference the site and its videos at the office people won't give me the 0___o look.
o.O what the heck, basketball diplomacy haha. I love VICE documentaries, so entertaining, informative, and WTF at the same time. I mean obviously everything has its own bent, but yea, VICE is pretty great.
On March 02 2013 15:42 SamsungStar wrote: Not sure why the OP is constructed the way it is. The show on HBO is not going to just be about N. Korea. It's a lot more wide-ranging than that. Trust me. I know
It's only because I personally had no idea they even got a deal with HBO until they made headlines with this Dennis Rodman stunt.
Shane Smith has been talking up the whole Dennis Rodman visit in the press as a 'diplomatic' and apolitical gesture, but when you watch his min-documentaries about North Korea he very clearly has strong political views about North Korea (and what a 1950's socialist batshit-insane dump it is).
I have no idea whether Shane Smith actually believes what he's saying, or if VICE has a secondary agenda that will be revealed when the episode airs. Shane Smith might just be blowing smoke up everyone's asses to protect the safety of Rodman and his crew.
And I have no idea if Rodman is just playing along, desperate for money, clueless, or all of the above. Telling Kim Jong-Un 'he has a friend for life' is simultaneously the most fucking absurd but least surprising thing Dennis Rodman has ever said. This is the man that allegedly whispered sexual innuendo into Karl Malone's ear while he was guarding him during the NBA Finals, just to throw him off his game. (GREATEST. DEFENSE. EVER.)
I guess this story hits all my pet topics -- North Korea, Hall of Fame NBA players and general New York hipster douche-baggery.
EPT![[image loading]](http://assets.vice.com/content-images/article/north-korea-has-a-friend-in-dennis-rodman/1e8bc4f56e9fd979f7f856163a8e1499.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://assets.vice.com/content-images/article/north-korea-has-a-friend-in-dennis-rodman/2bca4ddb5c879f29c7ba9487b0467c7d.jpg)
