Responsibility Mafia!

On December 20 2011 14:25 VisceraEyes wrote:


I get RVS, but the results wouldn't be "random" because it would involve trusting a "random" member of town to produce "unbiased random" results, which is not possible.

And on MafiaScum, the votes in RVS are rarely "random", that's a pretty common misnomer over there.

Anyway, I don't condone it. I can't get past the 'no information' aspect of RNG voting D1.

On December 20 2011 19:15 Chezinu wrote:

Listen Jack,

Town doesn't know the roles. Mafia does. What does this mean? If you have a crazy role to play, the mafia knows this. The town doesn't. However! There are some black roles out there and quite a few.. them mafia don't know about them except for that traitor other there. Here we are day 1 and it is so dark you might as well call it night and its going to be a long night for many of us are going to die.

It bound to come up. Role claiming. As much as I would love to claim a bank, I'm not. If people claim blue the mafia can spot lying townies. or lying blues claiming to be other blues.. oh wait.. thats a great idea! How about I act like a blue role claiming to be a different blue role to make the mafia think I'm a green or black claiming blue? yeah thats good. Ok guys. I got the nazi role.. if your grammar is so bad, I cna kills yous! But watch out, if you correct someone's grammar in the thread. There may be a role that is hunting them grammar nazis.. Ver is trying to turn us into professionals. Its his secret plan. so type dull proper structured formal long writings guys! oh and don't forget to have fun adhering to these rules to avoid certain deaths.. but don't forget you still have to deal with the lynches.

On December 20 2011 21:39 GMarshal wrote:
quote fail.
Lets try again



A hydra is an account shared by two players, in this case SamuelLJackson shared by Curu and Sandroba. They are, of course the ideal target for a day one lynch! As they have the issue of being extremely difficult to read, because of the two heads.

##Vote: SamuelLJackson

Also, as much as I love Chezinu, is anyone up for either policy lynching him or teaching me how the hell you get a grasp on his alignment? I enjoy his insanity, but its hardly conducive to figuring out his alignment.

On December 20 2011 22:55 bumatlarge wrote:
A post I feel displays scummy instigation -


Things to note: Speaking directly to an individual in a single post. Nearly forces some kind of a response. Also, implications of something else. I see no reference to what you are trying to do here. If you are pushing a cheznu lynch, then do it, and take the responsibility. Once you gain responsibility, I feel you gain the right to force other to make others do so as well. This could technically avoid triggers in the game if you word it improperly, or should I say properly? That leads me into the next method.

Avoidance: Purposefully with-holding aspects you would normally include in your posts to decrease chances of effects. Making as little interaction with the mechanic as you can. Again, it's neutral, a strong townie or strong blue can have just as much reason to stay alive as scum. Straying from your habits can be the best way to practice avoidance.

Avoidance post:


Things to note: L's personality is often abrasive but he gets the job done. I feel he's put in effort into to make this post different from an opening post he would make in an open set-up. He does mention interesting tid-bits that I feel we should discuss, and if it must be through me rather then L, I will take that responsibility for him. Responsibility is an accelerant in the same way power roles are accelerant. It's just that regular townies have sway. I think L brings up a good point here and I would like if he expounds on it. He also makes a good point on RNG preventing sources of responsibility. I definitely agree, but to what point can we rely that all responsibility held will benefit town? I think further speculation on that is useless without information, so this made me think that responsibility is a method in and of itself a way to garner information. Thanks for making me realize this L.

I'd definitely disagree with palmar's claim that L's first post is "bad". I think a proper term is "hindered".

So that gives us method number three...

Responsi-Probe: Purposefully lining your posts with the intention to trigger effects. I have been doing this in every one of my posts, initially with the notion that there must be protective and investigative roles that have requirements, so I'm willing to make myself an option, while also drawing some unfriendly fire. I'm not claiming anything, just that there are a lot of vets to take inito account, so I would have no issue being the target of a mafia ability if it would have been another town player. With L's post, I also realized that putting myself out there and tripping wires, I might be able to gain whatever little information I can through whatever Ver reveals. Someone should take a hefty amount of responsibility so we can learn something. A noble cause in my book.

For the lynch, I'm going to vote the hydra. No, it isn't RNG, it's his use of instigation with-out much follow up. Chezinu's style is not unknown, and I have no reason to think he's claiming anything. You are shoving words in his mouth, and I don't completely know the reasoning. You are attempting to open him up to take responsibility and your explanations are not sufficient. Let chezinu decide how much responsibility he will take.

##Vote: SamuelLJackson

On December 21 2011 01:53 syllogism wrote:
That is incorrect; for instance information roles have to role claim because the lack of role flips prevents us from just going through their post history in order to figure out their investigation results and such. Indeed the threat of night kill might make claiming relatively early worth considering, even if you only have town results. Similarly if a medic protects someone and gets lynched without claiming the protection, mafia can later on gamble and claim the protection. The latter is a bit far fetched scenario, but a strict no claiming strategy is not good. Actually another advantage is that it will be easier later on to determine whether certain claims make sense in terms of balance.

On December 21 2011 02:02 syllogism wrote:

No, are you saying you can't read?

On December 21 2011 01:53 syllogism wrote:
That is incorrect

On December 21 2011 01:52 LSB wrote:

Just knowing the roles doesn't mean anything.
I can tell you there is probably a cop, doc, sk, vig, ect ect. What does that help you with? Night actions I guess.

There is a big difference between knowing who has who's role, and just knowing the list of roles. For example, if we knew that there was a traitor, we wouldn't do much. However if we knew that Chez was the traitor, that would be an easy day 1 lynch.

On December 21 2011 02:32 Chezinu wrote:

uhh where did you see that?

On December 20 2011 19:15 Chezinu wrote:

Listen Jack,

Town doesn't know the roles. Mafia does. What does this mean? If you have a crazy role to play, the mafia knows this. The town doesn't. However! There are some black roles out there and quite a few.. them mafia don't know about them except for that traitor other there. Here we are day 1 and it is so dark you might as well call it night and its going to be a long night for many of us are going to die.

It bound to come up. Role claiming. As much as I would love to claim a bank, I'm not. If people claim blue the mafia can spot lying townies. or lying blues claiming to be other blues.. oh wait.. thats a great idea! How about I act like a blue role claiming to be a different blue role to make the mafia think I'm a green or black claiming blue? yeah thats good. Ok guys. I got the nazi role.. if your grammar is so bad, I cna kills yous! But watch out, if you correct someone's grammar in the thread. There may be a role that is hunting them grammar nazis.. Ver is trying to turn us into professionals. Its his secret plan. so type dull proper structured formal long writings guys! oh and don't forget to have fun adhering to these rules to avoid certain deaths.. but don't forget you still have to deal with the lynches.

On December 21 2011 04:56 L wrote:
RE: LSB

You realize you *kinda* already did with your previous post, right?


That section in particular makes a statement about triggers, and in particular says that town has triggers in an affirmative manner. You state this directly. The odd thing is that your post is structured to make it look like speculation, but you made an affirmative statement. This wasn't "Its possible that town has triggers too" it was "town has triggers too".

On December 21 2011 05:32 wherebugsgo wrote:


Logically, this sounds okay, particularly the second part about how if we know that Chezinu is traitor, we could lynch him.

However, check out the highlighted thing he finds probable; SK.

How do you know there is "probably" an SK LSB? Sure, I suppose if you assume this is a standardish game you might reasonably be able to get away with saying there's a cop, a doc, and a vig. But an SK? That's fishy as hell.

Now it might be true that we probably can't do much with just the information that a traitor exists. But if we know an SK exists, that's huge.

Indeed, this is the one role that you DEFINITELY would like to know merely about the existence of. There's a massive difference between knowing there's an SK and knowing there isn't. That knowledge is powerful in the hands of town because we know that we can potentially pit scum and SK against each other, or that we have an extra scum to look for, basically.

You wouldn't suggest that an SK is probable unless you already had that information.

Notice how in most of these posts, LSB attempts to "clarify" something and claims misunderstanding. In some of the circumstances, this is actually comical because some of the inferences LSB makes are ludicrous.

LSB asks if syllogism suggests we should all roleclaim right now. The obvious answer is no, no one in their right mind would suggest a mass roleclaim day 1, and I don't think syllo is the type of crazy player to be suggesting that. So then why ask a question you already know the answer to?

Perhaps to undermine that person later with a false assertion that they wanted a mass roleclaim day 1? That sounds pretty scummy!

Later LSB does something similar with what Chezinu said. He makes a statement that clearly shows either intentional misunderstanding or probing for future mistakes, by suggesting Chezinu was saying that people should be roleclaiming.

I don't think that was what Chezinu was doing. I really don't see how that last paragraph LSB quoted from Chezinu could be
anything but a warning about the setup, not a call for people to be claiming, as Chezinu says "claiming is bound to come up," not that it is bound to come up now.

As he is a very good town player, I doubt LSB missed something I didn't, especially four consecutive times with two different players.

On December 21 2011 06:47 SamuelLJackson wrote:
I support wbg's case on LSB. Fucking best post of this thread and maybe the only one worth reading.
##Vote LSB

@Bum The whole talk about mechanics and triggers and w/e the fuck is giving me a headache. And like you said scum knows all roles so don't you agree that's the easiest topic ever for them to discuss without having to commit? I'm ok with it as an opening but now it's time to move on. If you have a role or not that doesn't mean shit. Nobody cares. If you are town use it wisely.

@Chezinu I want to make you a deal. You split your posts in 1/2 content, 1/2 mental issues and I'll try to convince my other half to stop tunneling you for now. As much as I love your posts, curu has a point that you are currently being a hindrance, and if you are town you are setting up to be lynch bait later. Just mix up some clear content that everyone can discern and we can all be happy.

On December 21 2011 07:30 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Just to clarify, the part about wbg's case I find relevant is the bottom part and I'd like people to comment on it and LSB to respond to it.
LSB's posts so far seem very meek to me, always answering something or clarifying something. It really feels like he is actively avoiding pissing off people and he is making bullshit conclusions out of other players' posts. Doesn't feel like the confident townie LSB, it looks exactly the opposite. The points about his response regarding chezinu and the sk thing don't really tell me much though.

It really feels like he is actively avoiding pissing off people

On December 21 2011 09:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
yeah, you have a valid point that since he listed cop+medic that he possibly just felt listing SK was fine.

The problem is the other things give me pause. Cop+medic are far more common than SK, since they're in practically every game, so it's weird to see, at least for me, SK to be listed with them. Alone, that part is useless. However, mafia isn't about picking single things, it's about fitting lots of things together. That was just one thing that I saw that was weird.

Also, the bigger concern with LSB being good is that he made inferences that make no sense in the context of the posts he quoted. If anyone were to actually read syllo's or Chezinu's posts you would see that there is nothing in there about mass roleclaiming, or the suggestion that people do it.

On December 21 2011 10:05 wherebugsgo wrote:


Here, don't try to say this is a misunderstanding.

Really? This is what I said?

On December 21 2011 05:32 wherebugsgo wrote:


Logically, this sounds okay, particularly the second part about how if we know that Chezinu is traitor, we could lynch him.

However, check out the highlighted thing he finds probable; SK.

How do you know there is "probably" an SK LSB? Sure, I suppose if you assume this is a standardish game you might reasonably be able to get away with saying there's a cop, a doc, and a vig. But an SK? That's fishy as hell.

Now it might be true that we probably can't do much with just the information that a traitor exists. But if we know an SK exists, that's huge.

Indeed, this is the one role that you DEFINITELY would like to know merely about the existence of. There's a massive difference between knowing there's an SK and knowing there isn't. That knowledge is powerful in the hands of town because we know that we can potentially pit scum and SK against each other, or that we have an extra scum to look for, basically.

You wouldn't suggest that an SK is probable unless you already had that information.

On December 20 2011 23:53 SamuelLJackson wrote:
GMarshal that's such stupid reasoning. If anything having two people post on the account just gives you twice as many chances to slipup and twice the scum tendencies. It's much more beneficial for Town since we can bounce ideas off each other and feed each other - as Mafia you already have that channel of communication with the rest of your teammates.

bum if I have to point out to you where Chezinu tried to claim Traitor then you're worse at reading than I can reasonably comprehend.

Think about how the reaction to Chezinu's claim so far has been - "oh that's just Chezinu being Chezinu." So if he's the Traitor then great, Mafia has found him already and Town will completely ignore him. sandroba tells me he's "too much fun" and we should keep him around unless he keeps trolling but consider that the OP states Traitor gets added to Mafia's numbers when they are found; if the KP formula is #/2 that means adding the Traitor day 1 gives you an extra KP. It's a play that makes complete sense for him as the actual Traitor and none as Town.

/Curu

On December 21 2011 10:29 Palmar wrote:


Now that you've proven you can scumhunt, you should be able to recognize textwalls that don't contribute jack, which is basically what L has produced so far.

On December 21 2011 12:39 prplhz wrote:

You want lynch between Liquid`Sheth, VisceraEyes and me? Can you list the vets who get to freeload day1 if they want to?

On December 21 2011 12:40 kitaman27 wrote:
I'm going to bring up Sheth again, since he is posting in election mafia, but not here. I want to hear more from him. BC isn't really one to lurk as scum, but he needs to be pressured to post as well. We've already reached the half way point to day one.

People really need to stop talking about their roles. In past games, Ver has included role claim vig's to punish people and it would fit the responsibility theme perfectly.



Every player is a vet this game. If you're going to be against the lynch, it should be because you don't think he is scum. At this point, I'd probably consider it unless Foolishness is willing to show us he cares about the day one lynch.

On December 22 2011 10:41 Jackal58 wrote:

Nope. Not today. Today is LSB. LSB gives us info regarding people that defended him hard and soft. Your vote on GMarshall could be seen as an omgus. It can also be seen as useless. Vote LSB with me Kita.