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How not to throw away your money
+ Show Spoiler +Just my two cents on the training issue: I don't really think people should be paying for lessons at this point in the beta. Wait until the game has established itself for a bit, first. The only real benefit of "gosu" training sessions, IMO, is that you get to make connections with the top players, and thus have better practice partners who might be willing to discuss strategies and practice timings.
- Saracen
Good mechanics is what makes the difference between being copper and being platinum. Of course build orders and strategies play an important role, but if you have solid mechanics you can easily stay at the platinum level regardless of how much they tweak the units. So teaching a copper player how to macro/micro/scout properly and whatnot and giving them the general unit counters can easily bring them up to gold or platinum.
- Kantutan
There are many free resources to learn how to play. If you spend a lot of time practicing, watching replays, reading threads, discussing strategy, you will eventually understand how to play this game. This game is no different from any other sport, musical instrument, field of science, etc. Probably simpler. If you feel you can learn quickly enough without help, do not throw away your money.
-yours truly
On the subject of being paid to teach starcraft:
It doesn't really matter what the price is as long as both participants are honest and aware of what they're getting. Let us not forget the deadweight loss caused by intervention in the market (Econ 101). If someone is happy to pay and someone else is happy to sell, then there is more "happy" in the world as long as there are no negative externalities (i.e: scammers giving TL a bad name.)
Naturally, the better and more well known the coach is, the higher price the price he can demand. People in iNcontrol's thread are raging because they don't have the recognition to demand such a price. It's true that what separates good players from the best is practice and the ability to react well/perform during the game. Though neither of these can really be taught over a few days, if people are willing to pay a higher price to hang out/learn from iNcontrol & co, don't get your panties in a bunch.
On my next point:
I posted in iNcontrol's training camp thread that I'd be willing to get a silver/gold player to platinum in a week for a small (undisclosed) fee. This was tongue-in-cheek, but believed i could do it given the trainee was reasonably intelligent and willing to practice.
To my surprise, I'd actually piqued someone's interest. I'd spent time helping out beginners from TL in game before, but I never thought someone would be willing to pay for it so I haven't offered very often. Starcraft is a relatively simple (read: not complex) game. Beginners still get amazed when they see forcefield fuck up roach positioning. (OMG *__*)
I've seen threads of people offering to coach players, but there seem to be many buyer's of sc2 knowledge and many sellers of sc2 knowledge who do not meet because of lack of communication.
Which leads me to my point:
Wouldn't teamliquid be a better place if bored expert players and clueless beginners could be matched together? Why not create a system to allow them to meet? If money is exchange, that's fine. Include a readme to prevent absolute beginners from getting taken advantage of.
There are tons of people knowledgeable enough to coach players, I'd wager that there are enough people willing to teach that lessons will be free soon. People enjoy this game.
A fee doesn't mean "i'm trying to jack as much money as you as I can." A fee means "I enjoy this game and I want to stay involved, any compensation for my time would encourage it". If pros wanted to make money, they'd get a real job. Starcraft coaches outside of Korea will never make enough to buy noodles.
This is just a good chance to have fun and meet new people. If we meet and become good friend's I'd gladly help you for free.
Let me now shamelessly self-promote: private lessons! Free! First come first serve! I will start asking for money if i get bored/takes too long/you are a douchebag. I will probably also start asking if there are no other trainers ( pricing power ftw, but doubtful to occur).
I hope a better system will be developed eventually.
For now, post here if you need a coach or would like to coach:
I am: trainer
Name: BULLDOZERRR.hooha
Location: USA
League/points/record: Platinum/1500/35-22
Communication: I've got a mike and webcam, can use vent/skype.
Fee: Free for now.
Status: Currently unoccupied
Other: I'm very familiar with tvp, pzv. Okay with zvt. I cheese almost every tvt, zvz, pvp, because they are boring.
Trainee example:
I am: trainee
Name: Noob.Beginner
Location: USA
League/points/record: plastic/-500/0-100
Communication: I've got a mike and webcam, can use vent/skype.
Fee: I am too poor to pay
Status: No one is teaching me!
Other: HELP ME PLEASE! I like zerg!
Make it simple, no trashing other players or primping yourself.
Use PM's to contact each other to keep the thread clean. Change your status if you're free/unable to take any more trainees.
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I'm down for a free lesson or two if you're offering  What's your preferred race?
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On May 11 2010 18:38 willeesmalls wrote:
I cheese almost every tvt, zvz, pvp, because they are boring
thats not a good way to teach...
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On May 11 2010 18:58 OPSavioR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 18:38 willeesmalls wrote:
I cheese almost every tvt, zvz, pvp, because they are boring
thats not a good way to teach...
I agree, which is why I'm telling everyone who wants to learn those matchups to stay away from me. They are not fun for me. If I absolutely need to win those I'll start playing them seriously. It's not as if I don't understand that zealots beat stalkers without forcefields. Please try to keep the thread clean, you could have pm'd me this.
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it honestly makes no sense what so ever to PAY someone to teach/coach u starcraft when theres guides/strats u can look up on and study FOR FREE.
its just big names trying to capitalize on the fact that they are big names so they can make a lil bit of money for teaching stupid ppl who are stupid enought to pay for these lessons. hell u can get good just from watching Day 8s dailies and thats completely free,
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I think teaching would be better if you can get another person to be 'the opponent'. Since the AI sucks right now, 'the opponent' would basically just be a higher level player that can keep up with the trainer and also do certain builds if the situation calls for it. The trainee can either observe while the trainer plays while explaining what he is doing, or he can let the trainee play and give tips while spectating as a ref.
I offer my services for this role btw. Mid-level platinum player decent with all races (In gold right now though because I worked the account up from copper and hardly ladder). I love doing custom games and trying to help people, hate laddering because it's too intense 
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On May 11 2010 19:07 Ballistixz wrote:
it honestly makes no sense what so ever to PAY someone to teach/coach u starcraft when theres guides/strats u can look up on and study FOR FREE.
its just big names trying to capitalize on the fact that they are big names so they can make a lil bit of money for teaching stupid ppl who are stupid enought to pay for these lessons. hell u can get good just from watching Day 8s dailies and thats completely free,
Arg, Day 9 you mean! You'll make him facepalm like when Husky said Nick Plott instead of Sean Plott
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On May 11 2010 19:07 Ballistixz wrote:
it honestly makes no sense what so ever to PAY someone to teach/coach u starcraft when theres guides/strats u can look up on and study FOR FREE.
its just big names trying to capitalize on the fact that they are big names so they can make a lil bit of money for teaching stupid ppl who are stupid enought to pay for these lessons. hell u can get good just from watching Day 8s dailies and thats completely free,
Did you read the OP. Honestly if I were a mod I would have temp banned you. Yes there are tons of ways to learn this game. I have stated that the difference between a good player and the best is not basic knowledge, but control over mechanics, ability to react and game instinct.
If someone still wants to pay to learn, and someone else is willing to be paid to teach, stay out of the way. Create a readme to educate beginners on how to learn. We do have a strategy section. Try and keep unnecessary posts out of this thread.
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On May 11 2010 19:07 Ballistixz wrote:
it honestly makes no sense what so ever to PAY someone to teach/coach u starcraft when theres guides/strats u can look up on and study FOR FREE.
its just big names trying to capitalize on the fact that they are big names so they can make a lil bit of money for teaching stupid ppl who are stupid enought to pay for these lessons. hell u can get good just from watching Day 8s dailies and thats completely free,
There are tons of resources to look up for free or extremely inexpensive on every subject. If it's so fucking easy, why are you not awesome?
Excelling at something like Starcraft is a ton of hard work. You can do it without a coach -- that's obvious -- but that's only because other people don't have coaches, so you're not missing anything. Coaches help people get better. Fucking Tiger Woods has a coach. Why? Because a third party perspective and someones whose goal it is to help you become better is exceedingly valuable.
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cause of the patching the game is changing a lot, thats the reason why there arent much well written guides and thats for me a reason why payed coaching didnt make much sense at the moment.
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if that is the case then why are there no new big prodigies coming out of the woodwork after taking these so called "valuable lessons"? almost all the top players in starcraft became top players without the need of coaching and so can anyone else.
what it comes down to is your own skill. sure you can have coaches teaching u the game and helping u, but it means nothing if you cant execute on that. once your in game your not going to have a coach whispering in your ear telling you what to do. it will all come down to your decisions as a player.
a "3 day only training camp" for example is not going to suddenly make u a top player lol.
and trying to compare something like golf to starcraft? real life sports is nothing at all like video games. theres football coaches, theres basketball coaches, boxing coaches, etc etc. but are they halo 2 coaches? are there MW2 coaches? SSBM or SSBB coaches? no, all those top playeres became good from there own practices against others, they did not need to PAY someone to help them.
obviously someone trying to help u get good at something is valuable, but when it comes to something like video games PAYING them to do so is just stupid imo. theres no reason why you shouldnt become a good player without hours of practice and hours of viewing your replays. you can do this without paying a personal tutor unless ur just lazy.
+ your paying for knowledge to a game thats still in a BETA. alot of the strategies that work today wont work in the future when the game is finally released. theres alot of things that are not even set in stone yet. the best they can teach you is about how to macro/micro properly and manage your units and etc, but u can go to the TL wiki and learn that shit or even watch youtube vids.
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I am: trainee
Name: bballgaurd.kzr
Location: USA
League/points/record: silver/1050/40-36
Communication: I've got a mike and webcam, can use vent/skype.
Status: freinds help me out if anyone else wants to free id apreciate it
Other: i only play zerg
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On May 11 2010 20:01 violett wrote:
cause of the patching the game is changing a lot, thats the reason why there arent much well written guides and thats for me a reason why payed coaching didnt make much sense at the moment.
Good mechanics is what makes the difference between being copper and being platinum. Of course build orders and strategies play an important role, but if you have solid mechanics you can easily stay at the platinum level regardless of how much they tweak the units. So teaching a copper player how to macro/micro/scout properly and whatnot and giving them the general unit counters can easily bring them up to gold or platinum.
On a side note, I would actually love if someone took up my offer on helping them coach. Plenty of free time right now and always up for mass gaming. Also, your rants don't belong on this thread Ballistixz and no one cares for it.
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I posted at about 3 am PST, OP was in vent 10 minutes later and in game 10 minutes after that. I asked for help and got it promptly. Much appreciated Bulldozer. A 40 minute game obviously can't teach me how to be a pro but it certainly speaks for the OP's intentions. Thanks again.
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On May 11 2010 19:09 Kantutan wrote:I think teaching would be better if you can get another person to be 'the opponent'. Since the AI sucks right now, 'the opponent' would basically just be a higher level player that can keep up with the trainer and also do certain builds if the situation calls for it. The trainee can either observe while the trainer plays while explaining what he is doing, or he can let the trainee play and give tips while spectating as a ref. I offer my services for this role btw. Mid-level platinum player decent with all races (In gold right now though because I worked the account up from copper and hardly ladder). I love doing custom games and trying to help people, hate laddering because it's too intense
I completely agree with this for players who know what they're doing.
I just "trained" pathology. Found out he was midlevel platinum player. We talked a bit of strategy then had a practice match. He almost beat me ;'( That would looked completely awful.
I will reiterate that SC2 is a game that is relatively easy to understand. Once you understand you just need to practice. Some newer players may need people to walk them through things.
@ Ballistixz:
Please get out of my thread. Yes people want to make money, we are not all so altruistic to spend our time to help someone we are not acquainted with no compensation. Yes you can learn SC2 yourself by doing a variety of things online. Yes the difference between a good player and the best is practice and gut instinct. So yes, once you learn how to play SC2, you need to practice and develop your game instincts to be a top player. You have repeated everything I've said in the OP.
But there are people who may want/need help. They aren't stupid for wanting help from a better player. It's not unreasonable for people to pay a few bucks to get the information you spent countless hours acquiring looking through and analyzing threads/replays/streams. Even better if the they can get it free.
Would you like a coach? You obviously don't understand SC2 since you cannot even readproperly. Take a hike.
Edit: I feel like I'm screaming myself hoarse. Can we make a thread where it's easy for someone to come in and find a trainer/trainee/practice partner? Let's model this after the practice partner thread.
Post your info so it's easy to see Kantutan! I appreciate the positive feedback and good intentions.
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I am: trainer assistant!
Name: Bacon.bacon
Location: Canada (West Coast, PST)
League/points/record: Gold/1200/18-7 (had to work account from copper, am mid-Platinum)
Communication: Unfortunately no mic, so MSN or through SC2
Fee: Free
Status: Currently unoccupied
Other: Comfortable with every race, decent understanding of most build orders and matchups due to watching a LOT of tourneys and of course playing the game myself. Up for mass gaming, do not care if I lose in custom games, and basically offering to be an opponent for a trainer/trainee to either play standard or do a specific build order you want to try something against.
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I am: trainee
Name: Saracen.teamliquid
Location: USA
League/points/record: Platinum/1750/45-21
Communication: I've got a mike and webcam, can use vent/skype.
Fee: I am too poor to pay
Status: No one is teaching me!
Other: I use Zerg as my main. Will hopefully be able to ladder some more after my account gets fixed (says I have to replay placement matches at the moment).
Just my two cents on the training issue: I don't really think people should be paying for lessons at this point in the beta. Wait until the game has established itself for a bit, first. The only real benefit of "gosu" training sessions, IMO, is that you get to make connections with the top players, and thus have better practice partners who might be willing to discuss strategies and practice timings.
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willeesmall i actually was agreeing with most of what u said except for one point and that is about "paying someone to teach you starcraft" that is what i am arguing. no need to turn this into a flame war.
if you cant take other peoples opinions then you shouldn't make a thread about something like that in the first place when you know very well its going to start a debate on the subject.
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i think i got a PvP with you b4 and u played normal and i won =.=
anyway, im open to anyone need advice ^^ and anyone willing to give advice
I am in Plat, 41-29 (or smthing like that)(~1200s since i jumped from gold they cut down my points T__T) (notice that i hvnt had time to play "full time" yet)
Main race: Protoss > Zerg > T (sucks in using Terran since 1998  )
Nickname: NoBody.lns (make sure you said that you are a trainee or a trainer ^^)
other: using MBP mac/window, have mic and webcam built-in, using vent/skype/yahoo ^^
P/s: Im looking for help to setup a stream on my computer ^^, no clue how to xD
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heh, Machine's taught me more in 3 hours of lessons and countless tips off the clock than you ever can.
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EPT
