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Braavos36375 Posts
Unfortunately we will not be flying our TSL 4 finalists Creator and Life to New York to play the finals live. The finals will be played beforehand and cast from replays on Saturday by Day[9] and djWHEAT.
We took into consideration several factors when making this decision. First, we considered the players' Code S and Code A schedules after they return to Korea, which would be after almost 40 hours of flight and travel time within four days. We feel that this amount of travel immediately before their GSL matches may affect their performance too greatly. Second, both players are minors (15 and 16 years old, respectively), and the teams have expressed concerns about them traveling by themselves.
We understand that many fans may be disappointed about this but we feel it is the right decision for the players and teams, as well as for the TSL4 Finals game quality. Accordingly, we have increased the prize pool by $1,000 for first place. We are sorry to those fans who were hoping to meet the players in New York.
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i think this is quite understandable decision for the 2 young players.
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They're both in korea too, so there won't be a latency issue. Makes sense to me
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Hmm, can we continue to call TSL a premier event if it is online only? A bit disappointing, but understandable. :\
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Sad but it is the right call.
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Completely understandable on all accounts. Hopefully this brings out the best games for the Finals as well as keeps them on track for their GSL matches!
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It sucks, but makes sense.
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I think this is just fine.
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China6329 Posts
Nice and right moves HotBid.
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Disappointing, I hope this wont affect the viewer numbers. But, people who find out why should understand most of the time hopefully, still gonna be a good finals can`t wait for them :D
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I respect that decision, and hope that they can give even better games because of this.
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Disappointing, to bad TL is not able to set something up in Korea 
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
oh, btw i hope that the players aren't playing at 3am KST since that's the TSL broadcast time (playing saturday evening would be much better)
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What a bummer, but still looking forward to an amazing finals.
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Good call, can't wait for the finals 
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I feel its a real shame and kinda just kills off what spark or lack of hype the TSL had.
It has to be done though, just a real shame ):
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Would be sick if something could be arranged at the "Liquid" house in Korea TT________TT
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Bummer, but I understand why.
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Call GSL and have them do it in studio!
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Mmm gotta respect this decision
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NOOOOooooooooo! I will still support #TSL4 though!
On September 05 2012 14:04 kasik047 wrote:
Call GSL and have them do it in studio!
Yes - I had a similar idea almost immediately, too. At the very least, could the games be cast live by flying the casters IN to Korea? This could actually be feasible if you reused GomTV's studio resources and/or got Artosis, Tasteless, Wolf, and/or Khaldor to help cast, too.
PLLLLEEEASE. Or at least have Smix help do translations via Skype. Then I may be appeased.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
playing in korea would mean that GOM would need to open their studios at 3am on sunday, lol
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It's unfortunate, but necessary. Props to you guys for increasing the prize pool by a grand to compensate!
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CORRECTION - fly in Smix to Korea. She will do it, trust me  (how else are we going to find someone who speaks both Korean and English in South Korea? Wait, never mind, don't answer that... just do as I tell you  )
On September 05 2012 14:19 opterown wrote:
playing in korea would mean that GOM would need to open their studios at 3am on sunday, lol
Ha ha, well at least you know that GomTV won't need it, right? Ha ha. Oh, and I just remembered that Korea has a law that forbids minors from playing online games past midnight. But anyways, I suggest you film it in the GomTV studios (making sure the games are finished before midnight), together with live casters (and maybe a handpicked live audience that you know won't spoil the results), and then broadcast the recording at the usual time.
Do it! Or else I will still watch the Grand Finals anyways with my TSL+ because I love TeamLiquid no matter what.
*looks down at chest* Oh yeah, I forgot I was wearing my TL t-shirt today too, lol
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i don't have a problem with that at all!
if we do see a "playing picture" of the players or not, doesn't make it count anyway.
finals will be cool
thanks TL !
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Seems like a great call with no draw backs for the players, and we still get to watch an amazing finals; I'm all for this.
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Understandable but really disappointing : ( I would have liked to see more than games cast from replays and a splash screen between games for the finals.
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As long as the players and teams keep the results to themselves, not terrible news.
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like others have said, would be cool if GOM could host. Kind of a bummer, online always feels less legitimate, but definitely understandable. pity if it hurts the viewercount significantly
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37024 Posts
A shame that this happened but as always, TL makes the right decisions after considering every factor
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They wouldn't be able to attend the after party anyways, like Thorzain.
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I completely understand the situation. You guys made a very intelligent and caring move. Thanks for the update!
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Sucks, but the correct decision for the two players and hopefully the quality of the games.
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Its sad, but sounds like the correct decition.
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Minors dominating
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This is unfortunate, but understandable news. I was hoping to see some footage of the players similar to what happened with ThorZaIN and Naniwa. Hoping for some great games. Best of luck to both players.
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I'd much rather see major tournaments take into account the player's situation. Good call.
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I don't agree with this. If players want to be in it to win the big tournaments - not just GSL - I think they need to make some sacrifices, within reason. TeamLiquid is a driving force behind the eSports movement, and the TSL has a respectable prize pool - which is now being increased as a result of the players not attending the finals.
If players aren't commited to making the flight for the finals, there are plenty of other worthy players who were left out of the tournament.
Oh well.
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shud host like the sickest barcraft new york has ever seen to compensate
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Even less hype
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On September 05 2012 17:01 SpunXtain03 wrote:
I don't agree with this. If players want to be in it to win the big tournaments - not just GSL - I think they need to make some sacrifices, within reason. TeamLiquid is a driving force behind the eSports movement, and the TSL has a respectable prize pool - which is now being increased as a result of the players not attending the finals.
If players aren't commited to making the flight for the finals, there are plenty of other worthy players who were left out of the tournament.
Oh well.
Valid point, actually. I hadn't thought about it that way. I don't think any punishment should be doled out to Creator and Life, but perhaps for the future there should be clear requirements and potential consequences for those who know they may not be able to fulfill their commitments (e.g. because they're minors).
On September 05 2012 17:01 HeavOnEarth wrote:
shud host like the sickest barcraft new york has ever seen to compensate
Good idea, too. If the games can't be live, that doesn't mean there can't be ANY live component with audience for these TSL4 grand finals.
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Seems like the right decision, but what will TL do to make sure there isn't any "assisting" going on during these games from their teammates and/or coaches? A lot of money is on the line, and I'm sure they would do all they could to "help" while watching the games right behind the player.
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I feel like they should at least cast it live
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Braavos36375 Posts
On September 05 2012 17:19 lim1017 wrote:
I feel like they should at least cast it live
We considered this but but the 3rd/4th place match is cast before the finals, making the start time for the Finals at like 4-5 AM Korean time. While we agree that live is way better, the game quality potentially could be quite bad if we play it then.
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It's a bit sad but it's understandable.
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unfortunately I'm somewhat disappointed in TSL4 so far, maybe it's due to namely players have gotten knocked out early on and the somehow "un-unique" atmosphere :/
this, although it's probably the right decision to make to meet the players' (and their respective teams') interests as best as possible to guarantee great games, just contributes to my personal impression that TSL4 cannot compete with the sheer awesome-ness of TSL3
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Why didn't you guys fly out to Korea to do it?
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It is what happen when you make a tournament with qualifier only and online matches. You get top online players but not well rounded, used to travel and experienced players. If you make online qualifier only you should stick to the online tournament format.
I hope TSL 5 will be good.
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Good considerate decision. Would be nice if it could be organised with GOM or to do it in their studio or something like that.
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On September 05 2012 14:04 kasik047 wrote:
Call GSL and have them do it in studio!
good idea
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Set up a party tent somewhere in Chorea Park. Just make it happen!
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This sucks and I hope TL will make sure this wont happen in tsl5. This is so anticlimatic... If players agree to participate, they should deal with all the consequences. The winner gets a ridiculous amount of money, the least the fans and the organizers can expect, is contract fullfilment. That even the finals will be played online, kills almost all my anticipation.
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Sad, but understandable, i don't blame ya. Can't wait!
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I feel this is completely fien and I understand the need to do this.
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Why not do it live in the 'Liquid'-house in Seoul? Hardly any travel time for the players, and a great excuse to send Hot_Bid to Korea!
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I didn't even know the finals were supposed to be live! haha... I thought TSL4 was entirely online-only. Sooo... no biggie!
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Can't they do a live broadcast of somekind from Korea?
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Hmpf, good bye TSL >.>... Is there no possibility to do it live from Korea?... No offense but I think there is no better place in the world where two guys can play a live-streamed match
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Canada1169 Posts
It's a huge shame but its the right move.
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On September 05 2012 14:04 kasik047 wrote:
Call GSL and have them do it in studio!
this . im sure they would do it no problem .
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GSL STUDIO pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!! :D
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This. Why not do it live from Korea?
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It's the only right decision. TSL4 is a big failure so they can't spend 4k$ on flight tickets.
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It's understandable. GL HF!
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The best part about this is, they save money, so they increase the pool. Love it. ♥
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Really unfortunate but understandable since they are both very young and live in Korea.
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Man I sometimes forget how young some SC2 programers are. It's quite amazing the opportunities that open up just because of gaming. Anyways you did what any responsible tournament host should do, take care of your players. Forcing players into uncomfortable positions is not what any tournament should do, although it happens more often than naught unfortunately. I'd much rather see them at their best, even if it is from replays, than to see them play sub-par because they were required to fly out to places.
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Why not...do it in korea?!
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It seems understandable and it had to be done.
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Please do it in the in the GOM studio, that would be so great!
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This makes sense. Right move, imho.
Hope it doesn't negatively affect the viewer/stream numbers.
Feel sort of bad for the reception this TSL has gotten compared to the others.
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Makes total sense. Wish it could be live, but good on TL for respecting the fact that the players have other tournaments they need to play in.
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You could instead fly 2 casters over to Korea and live cast it from there. If you talk to GOM, you could even use the GOM house or studio.
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Bummer. Non-live stinks but it is what it is.
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Good job TL for making the right decision; all the concerns were completely legitimate and should be honored
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Fine by me, I'll still be watching ti for sure.
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My favorite part about TSL is that the integrity of the competition, and the amount of respect other teams get, comes before everything else. Respect to TL :D
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On September 05 2012 21:19 Talanthalos wrote:
It's the only right decision. TSL4 is a big failure so they can't spend 4k$ on flight tickets.
Yeah the invite system from TSL 3 created some entertaining matchups, even if not the highest level.
They should have just done the same thing but with some Kespa invites too haha.
Some Bisu vs. Idra or Flash vs Thorzain or stuff like that would be cool to watch.
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15 & 16
I'm older than both of them combined o_O
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No, 'Creator vs. Life In Other Games'
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pay GOM $1,000 and get them to cast it and produce it. WIN WIN!!
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Considering it's hot bid, I wouldn't be surprised this is a troll post.
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Knowing that the final is cast from replays takes a lot of the excitement out of it for me. It's is too bad that some other way to do it couldn't be arranged.
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On September 05 2012 14:04 kasik047 wrote:
Call GSL and have them do it in studio!
Yea pretty mucht this!
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I don't understand why the final has been canceled instead of being rescheduled.
If it's because the players don't want to travel, they shouldn't have participated in the tournament in the first place.
Because canceling the final or having an online/non live final is nearly the same...
It feels like the TSL is bending over the big tournaments/teams, at the disappointment of its fans...
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Makes sense. Hope the games are fantastic!
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On September 05 2012 14:04 kasik047 wrote:
Call GSL and have them do it in studio!
Best idea in this thread imo
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United States15275 Posts
At least can they play the games live in the GSL studio, then record those?
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Thank you for justifying this. All we want are solid games as fans, we love the players and don't want them to have brutal jet lag for huge matches.
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SoCal8910 Posts
its disappointing, but a smart decision for the players nonetheless.
too often, players are getting the short end of the stick when it comes to travel and other tournaments. its nice to see that TL is taking them into consideration here.
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No worries, looking forward to the finals.
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I've never really cared about live matches anyway just because they have the same latency (lolblizznoLAN). As long as the players play at their best, then I'm satisfied.
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On September 06 2012 00:28 Pimpmuckl wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 14:04 kasik047 wrote:
Call GSL and have them do it in studio! Yea pretty mucht this!
I second this.
Hugely dissappointing for me.
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Need more Life photos :D please gom!
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would have loved to see them in NY, but it kinda had to be done this way
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Who cares anyway? It's just another korean match, I can't identify with the players at all, it's not what made TSL good in the past. I want to see upcoming foreigner talent.
Oh well, just another tournament now to feature koreans. I guess that's what most people want.
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On September 05 2012 14:04 SolvusAnima wrote:
Would be sick if something could be arranged at the "Liquid" house in Korea TT________TT
This would be a brilliant idea. Get TLO, Artosis and Tasteless to come over and cast as a trio, buy some beers and suddenly you have a decent live TSL4 finals.
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So does this mean the NYC finals party isn't happening?
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Very sad : ( Understandable but very sad. However:
Accordingly, we have increased the prize pool by $1,000 for first place. We are sorry to those fans who were hoping to meet the players in New York.
$1,000 is basically only 1 round trip plane ticket.
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I mean, it sucks that it's not live, but it won't make the games any less good.
And it's so fair and considerate of the players that we can't hate <3
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This sort of sucks, but is highly understandable.
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Like so many others said, it's understandable.
Just sucks that I feel less hyped about it though. I can never get excited about matches where I can't actually see the players. I know who's playing but there's something more to it that a live event brings, even over a stream.
But I respect everyone's reasons. I just hope it doesn't happen again.
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understandable, still disappointed :[ I WENT TO NYU FOR NOTHING!
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This is all understandable. Seems like the final disappointment to cap off a rather disappointing TSL, but it's definitely in the best interest of the players, kudos for the decision.
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On September 06 2012 08:54 Bigtony wrote:
$1,000 is basically only 1 round trip plane ticket.
If you count it like that then you should also add hotel expenses, food and such things. They'll be one experience poorer and $1000 richer. I think it's a fair exchange.
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On September 06 2012 08:38 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 14:04 SolvusAnima wrote:
Would be sick if something could be arranged at the "Liquid" house in Korea TT________TT This would be a brilliant idea. Get TLO, Artosis and Tasteless to come over and cast as a trio, buy some beers and suddenly you have a decent live TSL4 finals.
and don't forget to get the trolls* to give some expert analyse after each game.
*By trolls i mean Khaldor, Mana (so they could troll each other) and Wolf so he could talk about how the match influenced players hair.
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I'm completely ok with this. I remember how awkward the Thorzain interview was just after he won :p.
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Understandable but brings down the value.
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TL is probably the only place that can make such an announcement and still have people support them.
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good move im sure the players prefer it this way, its nice that TSL is taking their schedules and needs into consideration.
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On September 06 2012 18:18 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 08:54 Bigtony wrote:
$1,000 is basically only 1 round trip plane ticket. If you count it like that then you should also add hotel expenses, food and such things. They'll be one experience poorer and $1000 richer. I think it's a fair exchange.
I could have, but I don't know what kind of lodging arrangements TL would make. It would cost someone substantially more than $1,000 to take a trip to New York City, and neither player will get to do so now.
There's not much that can be done about the situation, just pointing out I don't think raising the pot by $1,000 is really just for either player.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
They should fly the casters to Korea, borrow the GSL studio
or they can just use tasteless and Artosis who are already there
online finals are not as exciting but I guess it's understandable
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United States15275 Posts
Wait a minute, this time makes no sense. Are the TSL4 finals seriously going to be broadcast at 1:00 a.m. in the morning?
EDIT: Nevermind, I read the timer incorrectly.
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I would have sooner you delayed it, or had it simply cast live from Korea (get them to come to where the TLO + co are staying). Have them play at an odd, but not terrible time, which also suits either EU or US. Maybe they have to wake up at 7AM to play or have to stay up til 11PM to play, but in all honesty, it's not like they don't do so a lot of the time anyways.
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hmm a bit disappointing
i think it woulda been cool to still have them go to a house in korea or something, and film something live? kinda like homestory cup. but i guess not having the casters there, makes it difficult.
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So does this make TSL4 the biggest online SC2 tournament ever (in terms of prize money)?
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Damn, hard to get as hyped when it's not live, but I'm sure it'll still be good.
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On September 07 2012 16:23 red4ce wrote:
So does this make TSL4 the biggest online SC2 tournament ever (in terms of prize money)?
Nope....
TSL 4 total price pool: $34,500 + $1.000 ( thanks to extra cash its more than TSL3)
The winner is IPL 2 with price pool of $50,000
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On September 07 2012 12:33 FabledIntegral wrote:
I would have sooner you delayed it, or had it simply cast live from Korea (get them to come to where the TLO + co are staying). Have them play at an odd, but not terrible time, which also suits either EU or US. Maybe they have to wake up at 7AM to play or have to stay up til 11PM to play, but in all honesty, it's not like they don't do so a lot of the time anyways.
Yeah, if they wanted to, they could have easily found a way to have the games played and cast live from Korea. It seems to me that they're just using the situation as an excuse to scale down the production.
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On September 05 2012 13:49 Bagration wrote:
Hmm, can we continue to call TSL a premier event if it is online only? A bit disappointing, but understandable. :\
Definitely premier with the amount of talent in the qualifiers.
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On September 06 2012 08:42 Truenappa wrote:
So does this mean the NYC finals party isn't happening?
I just wanna confirm this...
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On September 06 2012 08:38 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 14:04 SolvusAnima wrote:
Would be sick if something could be arranged at the "Liquid" house in Korea TT________TT This would be a brilliant idea. Get TLO, Artosis and Tasteless to come over and cast as a trio, buy some beers and suddenly you have a decent live TSL4 finals.
Yes, this!
That would have been so superior to what we have right now.
Those three are simply awesome casters, and while I can't quite explain why, live is so so much better.
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EPT
