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OKScottish
United States217 Posts
I would like to be able to stream without lag and play games at a high quality without lag My price range is about $200-$500. My PC is a Dell Studio XPS 7100 Here are my specs: -Motherboard: AMD 760G/780G/780V/785G/790GX/880G/890GX, AMD K10 -CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1035T, 2600 MHz (13 x 200) -GPU: Radeon HD 6850 -RAM: 8.00 GB (Not sure how to find the model) -HDD: ST31000528AS -PSU: (Dont know how to find it) -OS: Windows 7 (64 bit) Thnx | ||
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kamkerx
United States264 Posts
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OKScottish
United States217 Posts
On June 18 2012 03:58 kamkerx wrote: get an i7 and you can stream ezpz cause rest of your set up is great What exactly is on i7? | ||
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kamkerx
United States264 Posts
i have an i7 and same gpu as you and without overclocking i run sc2 while streaming 720p at 250-300 fps on ultra textures low shaders and maxed out effects and physics and post processing while also listening to music and having some streams up in the back ground | ||
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EnE
417 Posts
I have the exact same processor and I can stream in 720p and ultra settings with smooth quality. If you don't have a good motherboard, you could instead just buy a good mobo and OC the bus to 247 which will give you 3.21 Ghz per core which is a very decent processor and better than a 4-core i5 if you're streaming since the other 3-4 cores can be active. (But first check if you can do it on your current motherboard...) If needs be you can spend 20 on an aftermarket cooler if you're worried about temps. It will save you a LOT more money than an i7 and should do your streaming needs... and then in the future when haswell/piledriver comes out you can upgrade again (and if piledriver is any good, you can keep the same mobo and save EVEN MORE money)..... or you can splash money, buy a good case, buy a good PSU and buy an i7 2600k or 3570k with a motherboard and stick with that for a long time. | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
An Intel i7 should be a better, but not necessarily worth the $400+ or so it would take to upgrade. Your system actually looks like it's set up to play & stream SC2 well, with one exception. It's a Dell premade, and the CPU is not overclocked. Overclocking adds to a processor's performance, which can make a big difference in streaming & late game SC2 scenarios. Unfortunately, being a Dell premade you may have a power supply, motherboard, and/or CPU heatsink which cannot handle the additional demands of overclocking. My suggestion is to just try streaming with what you have. For 1v1s, I'd guess even an un-overclocked Phenom II would provide good smooth play even in late game scenarios, and you should be able to output a stream of at least 480p, possibly 720p, depending on other, more technical settings for the stream itself. If your performance is still unsatisfactory, I'd look into getting a new heatsink and overclocking. Searching something like "overclocking on a [your motherboard model]" or visiting the relevant section of a site like overclock.net might help. But there may not be much option there. As a last result you can always upgrade to an i7 of some sort, though that would probably require replacing CPU, motherboard, case, power supply, and possibly heatsink. Basically I'm just repeating what EnE said, and hopefully adding some useful information. | ||
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Boblhead
United States2577 Posts
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EnE
417 Posts
I wouldn't reccomend upgrading from a Phenom II to a Phenom II or a sidegrade to an i5... I really think he's better either going and splashing on an i7 3570k + case + mobo + heatsink + (PSU) or just getting an aftermarket cooler and maybe a Mobo and overclocking his Current 6 core to 3.2 or 3.6. Sure, an i5 games better, but it has half the leftover cores for streaming so it's really not a conventional "upgrade" and it offers NO UGPRADE PATH whatsoever with whatever mobo he buys for it. | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On June 18 2012 08:14 EnE wrote: @Above: I wouldn't reccomend upgrading from a Phenom II to a Phenom II or a sidegrade to an i5... I really think he's better either going and splashing on an i7 3570k + case + mobo + heatsink + (PSU) or just getting an aftermarket cooler and maybe a Mobo and overclocking his Current 6 core to 3.2 or 3.6. Sure, an i5 games better, but it has half the leftover cores for streaming so it's really not a conventional "upgrade" and it offers NO UGPRADE PATH whatsoever with whatever mobo he buys for it. Um. I'm pretty sure my i5-2500k@5.2ghz can kill any Phenom in an underwater submarine battle, and stream the whole thing in 720p@60fps, while bruteforcing your facebook password. Twice. That said, an upgrade "path" isn't necessary when you will not need to upgrade for a number of years (a la Core2Duo -> Sandy/Ivy Bridge). Do you really believe that AMD will be using the same socket in 2-4 years? And really? Why the fuck would he need a new case? You just threw that in to try to make your claim look more reasonable. He could very easily just get a mobo+CPU depending on his PSU. He should be getting a CPU cooler either way, if he's planning on overclocking. | ||
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EnE
417 Posts
On June 18 2012 08:59 Chargelot wrote: Um. I'm pretty sure my i5-2500k@5.2ghz can kill any Phenom in an underwater submarine battle, and stream the whole thing in 720p@60fps, while bruteforcing your facebook password. Twice. That said, an upgrade "path" isn't necessary when you will not need to upgrade for a number of years (a la Core2Duo -> Sandy/Ivy Bridge). Do you really believe that AMD will be using the same socket in 2-4 years? And really? Why the fuck would he need a new case? You just threw that in to try to make your claim look more reasonable. He could very easily just get a mobo+CPU depending on his PSU. He should be getting a CPU cooler either way, if he's planning on overclocking. I really doubt that your 4 core sandy bridge would stream so much better than a Phenom x6 at 4 ghz per core. Would it be better? Almost certainly but not enough to warrant a big price jump just for streaming sc2. And he should get a new case if he wants a real upgrade because I assume he has a shitty dell mini case and if he's gonna spend hundreds on hardware, he should at least spend 50 on a big case with good cooling. And you act like every sandy can hit 5.2 stably which isn't true at all. This means that they run almost equally on multi-threaded tasks clock-for-clock when comparing an x6 to an i5... since neither processor is gonna bottleneck your sc2 if you're being reasonable then it's still not a particularly smart side-grade as opposed to OC'ing and waiting for enough money for an i7 or for next gen CPU. | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
On June 18 2012 03:56 OKScottish wrote: Im trying to upgrade my PC to make it good for streaming and playing games on high quality. Im not really good at figuring all this stuff out (I am trying to learn, and i am learning slowly) but I need someones help. I would like to be able to stream without lag and play games at a high quality without lag My price range is about $200-$500. My PC is a Dell Studio XPS 7100 Here are my specs: -Motherboard: AMD 760G/780G/780V/785G/790GX/880G/890GX, AMD K10 -CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1035T, 2600 MHz (13 x 200) -GPU: Radeon HD 6850 -RAM: 8.00 GB (Not sure how to find the model) -HDD: ST31000528AS -PSU: (Dont know how to find it) -OS: Windows 7 (64 bit) Thnx Get a aftermarket motherboard and overclock your cpu. will hold you up good until you have a bigger budget | ||
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EnE
417 Posts
Yep, and a good cooling case/aftermarket cooler so he can make the most out of it... the case is slightly more expensive but don't forget, he'll be able to use it in any future build so it's an investment that can't really go wrong. | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
On June 18 2012 08:59 Chargelot wrote: Um. I'm pretty sure my i5-2500k@5.2ghz can kill any Phenom in an underwater submarine battle, and stream the whole thing in 720p@60fps, while bruteforcing your facebook password. Twice. That said, an upgrade "path" isn't necessary when you will not need to upgrade for a number of years (a la Core2Duo -> Sandy/Ivy Bridge). Do you really believe that AMD will be using the same socket in 2-4 years? And really? Why the fuck would he need a new case? You just threw that in to try to make your claim look more reasonable. He could very easily just get a mobo+CPU depending on his PSU. He should be getting a CPU cooler either way, if he's planning on overclocking. You're mostly wrong. He might need a new case if he upgrades because Dell often doesn't use ATX-standard cases for their premades. So ATX or mATX boards may not even fit (have holes to screw into). It's a reasonable concern, and one I mentioned as well. And as it's a Dell premade PSU... And you're simply wrong about the i5 being a good idea. Yes, it's a good processor, and yes it's better than a Phenom II for most purposes. But not this one. Two i5 cores available for streaming simply doesn't equal 4 Phenom II cores available for streaming. The i5 is good, but it's not 100% better per core than a Phenom II. I'll reiterate my advice: 1)stay pat, 2)get a heatsink and try your luck overclocking with the Dell mobo & psu, or 3)bite the bullet and go i7 (I recommend the i7-3770k or i7-3770 as the OP doesn't seem like an aggressive overclocker). | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
On June 18 2012 12:22 MisterFred wrote: You're mostly wrong. He might need a new case if he upgrades because Dell often doesn't use ATX-standard cases for their premades. So ATX or mATX boards may not even fit (have holes to screw into). It's a reasonable concern, and one I mentioned as well. And as it's a Dell premade PSU... And you're simply wrong about the i5 being a good idea. Yes, it's a good processor, and yes it's better than a Phenom II for most purposes. But not this one. Two i5 cores available for streaming simply doesn't equal 4 Phenom II cores available for streaming. The i5 is good, but it's not 100% better per core than a Phenom II. I'll reiterate my advice: 1)stay pat, 2)get a heatsink and try your luck overclocking with the Dell mobo & psu, or 3)bite the bullet and go i7 (I recommend the i7-3770k or i7-3770 as the OP doesn't seem like an aggressive overclocker). A new mobo would work just fine. I have basically the same system he has, just in a standard case and not in a dell case. the mobo is m-ATX | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On June 18 2012 12:22 MisterFred wrote: You're mostly wrong. He might need a new case if he upgrades because Dell often doesn't use ATX-standard cases for their premades. So ATX or mATX boards may not even fit (have holes to screw into). It's a reasonable concern, and one I mentioned as well. And as it's a Dell premade PSU... And you're simply wrong about the i5 being a good idea. Yes, it's a good processor, and yes it's better than a Phenom II for most purposes. But not this one. Two i5 cores available for streaming simply doesn't equal 4 Phenom II cores available for streaming. The i5 is good, but it's not 100% better per core than a Phenom II. I'll reiterate my advice: 1)stay pat, 2)get a heatsink and try your luck overclocking with the Dell mobo & psu, or 3)bite the bullet and go i7 (I recommend the i7-3770k or i7-3770 as the OP doesn't seem like an aggressive overclocker). More stats on the case: Micro-ATX (Mini-Tower) Dimensions & Weight Height: 16.02" (407.75 mm) Width: 7.31" (185.81 mm) Depth:17.9" (454.67mm) Weight: 22.4 lbs (10.18 kg) Power: 460 Watts Appears to be Standard mATX setup, but yes, Dell sometimes keeps screw holes in different places. They're known to do little proprietary changes like that. A lot of companies are (for instance my ASUS laptop uses a reversed insert for the dGPU). If it's a standard layout, you can definitely use either an AMD or Intel Micro ATX motherboard. It'll be tough finding a suitable cooler to stick into a 7.31 inch space. Make sure that if you decide to get new cooling that it will actually fit. Slightly off topic? + Show Spoiler + As for the i5, I never said it was necessarily the way to go. I think if you're going to put money into it, you should always save up for an i7. I just needed something immediately and couldn't save for any longer, which is how I ended up with an i5. Am I misunderstanding how it works, though? I've never done extensive testing for streaming on my processor, though I've done minimal testing. I know that I can, very easily. But you seem to be insinuating that a core needs to be all-for-streaming or it's not used. Is this correct? Because if not, SC2 barely puts a dent into an extreme OC on sandybridge. You have well over half of each SC2 core available for use. Would this spare power on each of the two SC2 cores not also be used for streaming? | ||
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EnE
417 Posts
Basically, games like sc2 use what is called single threads and this means it runs on a maximum of 2 cores really.. so if you're just gaming, then clock-for-clock efficiency and frequency on just a couple of cores is all that matters for setting fps benchmarks for the majority of gaming engines. However, if you're using a 6 core processor, you're gonna have 4 cores idle that can all stream together since encoding uses multi-threading. Basically, since both sandy and phenom cores can handle sc2, the phenom will leave you with 4 cores idle to stream with and an i5 will only leave you with two. and I'd much more suggest getting a better case. Really, those mini dell cases get hot and dusty so easily, just get a real gaming case with room for real components in it and that'll last you for all your future upgrades as well. | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:16 EnE wrote: @Above: Basically, games like sc2 use what is called single threads and this means it runs on a maximum of 2 cores really.. so basically, if you're using a 6 core processor, you're gonna have 4 cores idle that can all stream together since encoding uses multi-threading. Basically, since both sandy and phenom cores can handle sc2, the phenom will leave you with 4 cores idle to stream with and an i5 will only leave you with two. and I'd much more suggest getting a better case. Really, those mini dell cases get hot and dusty so easily, just get a real gaming case with room for real components in it and that'll last you for all your future upgrades as well. That wasn't my point. SC2 doesn't use 100% of either of the two cores. It uses ~40%. I was asking does that mean the 60% of the cores that are free for use will not be used for streaming? Personally, with a $500 budget, I would go with these, total $493 Listed in order: CPU, Motherboard, PSU, Case,
You can reuse that GPU, I have the same card, works amazingly for its price actually. I play every game I get on max/high settings. The RAM is nondescript, but you can probably reuse it. The HDD should be fine too. I would allow these options to be peer reviewed by other TL users, but I don't see anything wrong with it. Assuming a minimalist budget, keep your processor, and look at this:
A new motherboard, will definitely overclock well, and a PSU to ensure that you can do it. Recycle the case/GPU/RAM/HDD/CPU for this new build. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:21 Chargelot wrote: That wasn't my point. SC2 doesn't use 100% of either of the two cores. It uses ~40%. I was asking does that mean the 60% of the cores that are free for use will not be used for streaming? It may say 40 %, but if there is another thread running at the same time on the core the game is running on, there may be something bad happening for the game. I remember from a while back trying to record something on a dual core processor. In the game, the FPS did not drop, but there was something off that I could not really identify. Perhaps some kind of latency was introduced, or objects and viewpoint moving in the game felt strange as if the timer used in the game was fluctuating from frame to frame. It just felt not right, not as smooth as it normally did, despite the FPS counter staying at 60. | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:21 Chargelot wrote: That wasn't my point. SC2 doesn't use 100% of either of the two cores. It uses ~40%. I was asking does that mean the 60% of the cores that are free for use will not be used for streaming? Personally, with a $500 budget, I would go with these, total $493 Listed in order: CPU, Motherboard, PSU, Case,
You can reuse that GPU, I have the same card, works amazingly for its price actually. I play every game I get on max/high settings. The RAM is nondescript, but you can probably reuse it. The HDD should be fine too. I would allow these options to be peer reviewed by other TL users, but I don't see anything wrong with it. I dont see this as a bad option but for someone like me, this would be alot of money put into something for very little results. If he just got a decent am3 board and cooler, he could easily overclock that processor and get a pretty big boost in performance while only spending a little over $100 | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On June 18 2012 18:04 AeroEffect wrote: I dont see this as a bad option but for someone like me, this would be alot of money put into something for very little results. If he just got a decent am3 board and cooler, he could easily overclock that processor and get a pretty big boost in performance while only spending a little over $100 Yeah, I updated the post to reflect that! Wanted to show both ways it can go. | ||
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Canonicalcheese
43 Posts
On June 18 2012 03:56 OKScottish wrote: -HDD: ST31000528AS If you're going to upgrade anyway get a Samsung 830 128 GB or 256 GB edition SSD instead. The former will run you roughly the same money as the Seagate 'Cuda 1 TB and you can add a cheap 1-3TB drive for storage later on once hard disk prices have gone done some more. | ||
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