EPTI just can't figure out if foreigners champions are getting better or Korea post proleague is a slowly fading away. (except for the last proteam which would explain Jin air dominance. )
Reynor to RO16, Classic out in shock Code S opener - Page 4
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StarDraKe
France65 Posts
I just can't figure out if foreigners champions are getting better or Korea post proleague is a slowly fading away. (except for the last proteam which would explain Jin air dominance. ) | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On July 05 2018 17:33 Majick wrote: I'd rather have them remove the region lock completely so Classic could compete in WCS... GSL is a global league by design, it's always exciting to see foreigners make it there. Great plays by Reynor btw, he looked like a perfect Zerg this day, harassing everywhere, swarming his opponent from multiple angles, switching techs all the time. Beautiful style. I am inspired. I totally agree with you and also Corvuuss, weither you block korea for foreigner or allow koreans to foreign lands... | ||
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Executer08
Germany163 Posts
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Fran_
United States1024 Posts
On July 05 2018 13:57 Circumstance wrote: I ask this genuinely: Where does this, already, put Reynor in terms of Italians in esports history? Let's say I'm now the second best Italian in SC2 and I'm a low master :D | ||
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ADTempys
Finland60 Posts
On July 05 2018 22:03 Executer08 wrote: this region lock discussion based on a foreigner advancing one round in gsl is pretty damn stupid^^ blizzard wont unregion lock wcs any time soon anyway as that would make no sense at all and only destroy the foreign scene they have tried to rebuild over the last ~3 years. It was already brought after the code S qualifiers, the current system gives you a disaventage because you were born korean, it's just unfair. | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On July 05 2018 22:03 Executer08 wrote: this region lock discussion based on a foreigner advancing one round in gsl is pretty damn stupid^^ blizzard wont unregion lock wcs any time soon anyway as that would make no sense at all and only destroy the foreign scene they have tried to rebuild over the last ~3 years. Blizzard hasn't really tried to rebuild the foreign professional scene. Any attempt to do that would have involved a complete redesign to Zerg so that the race was no longer the default for players outside of Korea because a professional scene cannot grow and thrive when 50+% of the pros play a single race which dominates the results. A professional scene also can't survive when new players aren't joining the ranks which frankly hasn't been happening in Korea since the death of proleague. The fact that limited Code S slots are being taken by players who have another region to participate in hasn't helped. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On July 05 2018 23:11 ADTempys wrote: It was already brought after the code S qualifiers, the current system gives you a disaventage because you were born korean, it's just unfair. While this statement is partially true, it's only half of the picture. The top Koreans are still a head better than most of the foreigners. Even the mid-tier Koreans like Impact and Keen are better than a lot of foreigners. To say only that the system is unfair just because you were born Korean ignores the fact that Koreans have dominated this game from the beginning. On July 06 2018 00:08 Boggyb wrote: A professional scene also can't survive when new players aren't joining the ranks which frankly hasn't been happening in Korea since the death of proleague. The fact that limited Code S slots are being taken by players who have another region to participate in hasn't helped. But part of the reason why we don't see growth in Korea is because the top players stifle growth themselves. Because of the lack of interest in Korea for SC2, we have a high and highish tier, and we have a low tier. There's not really an in between. Regardless of foreigners taking Korean spots, no new Koreans would have been able to qualify as the mid-tier Koreans the foreigners beat would take those places instead. And this is the problem of region lock. Unlocking the region would only serve to help top Koreans. The qualifiers generally ensure we only get the top Koreans, and so it would be elsewhere. This solution would only serve to help those who do not need help. Yes, Reynor will go back to WCS if he loses, but he's beatable. It's not really any guarantee that he'll make it past the ro16/ro8. But Classic, were he in WCS, would be a favourite against any foreigner (and TRUE) he faced. | ||
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LDaVinci
France130 Posts
In that sense, mid tier Koreans could compete in WCS. yes they might be ahead of mid tier foreigners, but not so much compared to tier 1 foreigners. That would solve the TRUE case, where he was asked to withdraw from Code S because he plays WCS. This configuration should either not happen again or be the same for everyone. It could also have constraints like, you must have a Master/GM account with more than 200 games this season in EU or NA to play WCS, so that these players would be forced to play in the EU ladder. | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
People don't like foreigners coming over and taking spots from koreans who can't participate in tournaments outside of Korea. People also don't like Koreans dominating the foreign scene. Here's my idea: make it so that if a player is still in the current season of the GSL, i.e. they haven't been knocked out yet, then they can't play in any WCS tournaments until they are knocked out of the current season of the GSL. This prevents top tier koreans like Maru and Stats from coming over and cleaning house at WCS and then still having a shot at winning the GSL too. This also allows players with early exits more opportunities to earn money abroad. And this prevents foreigners from being the only players that benefit from the WCS cushion if they don't succeed at the GSL qualifiers/in the ro32/16. This would be, in my opinion, the most fair system. If you are not still in the current season of the GSL by the time the next WCS event occurs, whether you failed to qualify or have already been knocked out, then you can attempt to play in that tournament as well. Players still in the GSL are barred from competing in any WCS events until they are knocked out of the current season of the GSL. | ||
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Chemiczny
Poland9 Posts
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On July 06 2018 01:49 FrkFrJss wrote: But part of the reason why we don't see growth in Korea is because the top players stifle growth themselves. Because of the lack of interest in Korea for SC2, we have a high and highish tier, and we have a low tier. There's not really an in between. Regardless of foreigners taking Korean spots, no new Koreans would have been able to qualify as the mid-tier Koreans the foreigners beat would take those places instead. On the GSL season 3 qualifier page on Liquipedia, there are 34 Korean players listed under the Notable Participants. 1 of them is retiring (ByuL) and the other is leaving to join the WCS Circuit scene (RagnaroK). 5 of those Koreans are FanTaSy, LabyRinth, SuperNova, TaeJa, and TOP. Those are who newbies would be competing with for the final slots, not Neeb, SpeCial, and Reynor. The list for season 3 of last year was 39 and that didn't include players who have recently come out of retirement like Parting, MMA, FanTaSy, Taeja, etc., so it is probably fair to say that the Korean scene has lost ~10 players in the last year which was basically 25% of the scene. | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy831 Posts
On July 05 2018 22:56 Fran_ wrote: Let's say I'm now the second best Italian in SC2 and I'm a low master :D Hey Ryu, so this is your TL account! But I thought you were GM ;p | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On July 06 2018 04:46 Boggyb wrote: On the GSL season 3 qualifier page on Liquipedia, there are 34 Korean players listed under the Notable Participants. 1 of them is retiring (ByuL) and the other is leaving to join the WCS Circuit scene (RagnaroK). 5 of those Koreans are FanTaSy, LabyRinth, SuperNova, TaeJa, and TOP. Those are who newbies would be competing with for the final slots, not Neeb, SpeCial, and Reynor. The list for season 3 of last year was 39 and that didn't include players who have recently come out of retirement like Parting, MMA, FanTaSy, Taeja, etc., so it is probably fair to say that the Korean scene has lost ~10 players in the last year which was basically 25% of the scene. Indeed, there are a number of lower tier Koreans, like Tails, Billowy/Dokyung, Pet, Curious, Jjakji, Hush, and others who did not compete. But the thing is, they're old talent that has not been especially strong for a while. We need fresh blood in Korea, and we're not going to get that if the current top players stay on top or continue to dominate all tournaments. What I'm saying is that the top Koreans are as much of a threat to the Korean scene as the foreigners. That's because we lost the middle tier. So in order to regain that lower tier, we need a partial region lock, where only the below mid-tier Koreans can compete. I talked about this before; base qualification on Korean WCS points. You reach a certain level, and you can't compete in the WCS circuit. Points are based on previous and current year. So if you reached a certain number last year, you can't compete in WCS this year. Or, if you reach a certain number of points this year, you can't continue to compete. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On July 05 2018 18:36 atrox_ wrote: No. A foreigner has knocked a two Koreans out of one of the only tournaments they can actually play in. If reynor is to go out in the next round it's OK he can head back home and play in WCS - classic and ryung can't do that. Same applies to WCS except it would happen all the time | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On July 06 2018 06:09 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Reynor may be proof that we don't need region lock anymore The latest piece of proof. ByuN winning his GSL then Blizzcon was more than enough for the reasonable. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5460 Posts
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Strelok
Ukraine320 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On July 06 2018 14:58 Strelok wrote: Region lock is the only reason why such a player as Reynor appeared. If you cancel region lock, you will see only koreans again here, there and everywhere Reynor hasn't even played in WCS yet, and let's be totally honest here, there are no new Koreans in the scene so the ones who are left could dominate but they'd wouldn't overpower anymore. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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(i honestly don't care about Reynor's play, he can compete in WCS and Classic can't so he should stick to it) 
