On October 06 2017 15:53 SidianTheBard wrote: I hope to god you guys reject everybody with less than 5 TL posts. I love that in the past hour suddenly 50 people that have never been to TL decided to register and vote for maps...
A lot of these votes came from a stream where we have been telling people to make their TL acct to vote. Winter's stream has been drawing a lot of attention to it where there wouldn't have been before. This is a good thing.
On October 06 2017 15:53 SidianTheBard wrote: I hope to god you guys reject everybody with less than 5 TL posts. I love that in the past hour suddenly 50 people that have never been to TL decided to register and vote for maps...
On what grounds? These are actual people not bots--just because some streamers encouraged viewers to vote as a block doesn't make their votes any less valid.
The popular vote has always been to encourage participation, not because the general population has shown any acumen at choosing maps.
On October 06 2017 15:53 SidianTheBard wrote: I hope to god you guys reject everybody with less than 5 TL posts. I love that in the past hour suddenly 50 people that have never been to TL decided to register and vote for maps...
On what grounds? These are actual people not bots--just because some streamers encouraged viewers to vote as a block doesn't make their votes any less valid.
Exactly! Not sure why he has such a problem with attention being drawn to this contest...
On October 06 2017 15:53 SidianTheBard wrote: I hope to god you guys reject everybody with less than 5 TL posts. I love that in the past hour suddenly 50 people that have never been to TL decided to register and vote for maps...
On what grounds? These are actual people not bots--just because some streamers encouraged viewers to vote as a block doesn't make their votes any less valid.
Exactly! Not sure why he has such a problem with attention being drawn to this contest...
I mean I understand that as a mapmaker he dislikes that the vote is being swung by community personalities, but from a rules perspective there isn't anything wrong going on.
On October 06 2017 15:53 SidianTheBard wrote: I hope to god you guys reject everybody with less than 5 TL posts. I love that in the past hour suddenly 50 people that have never been to TL decided to register and vote for maps...
On what grounds? These are actual people not bots--just because some streamers encouraged viewers to vote as a block doesn't make their votes any less valid.
Because this isn't about what map makes ladder or not, this is about what map gets $$$ or not. So it's basically saying as long as the biggest streamer loves your maps you will get the most votes.
If these are the top 5 maps, the only reason they won is because Winter listed his top 5 maps and all his viewers voted for it just because.
You know somebody is fixing the vote when all of a sudden, at 3am, we get a sudden burst of 50 "new TL accounts" with 1 post all voting for the same maps...
On October 06 2017 15:53 SidianTheBard wrote: I hope to god you guys reject everybody with less than 5 TL posts. I love that in the past hour suddenly 50 people that have never been to TL decided to register and vote for maps...
On what grounds? These are actual people not bots--just because some streamers encouraged viewers to vote as a block doesn't make their votes any less valid.
The popular vote has always been to encourage participation, not because the general population has shown any acumen at choosing maps.
if they're just blindly copying winter's vote (not saying everyone is, but it's definitely true for some) then they might as well be bots lol
On October 06 2017 15:53 SidianTheBard wrote: I hope to god you guys reject everybody with less than 5 TL posts. I love that in the past hour suddenly 50 people that have never been to TL decided to register and vote for maps...
On what grounds? These are actual people not bots--just because some streamers encouraged viewers to vote as a block doesn't make their votes any less valid.
Because this isn't about what map makes ladder or not, this is about what map gets $$$ or not. So it's basically saying as long as the biggest streamer loves your maps you will get the most votes.
If these are the top 5 maps, the only reason they won is because Winter listed his top 5 maps and all his viewers voted for it just because.
You know somebody is fixing the vote when all of a sudden, at 3am, we get a sudden burst of 50 "new TL accounts" with 1 post all voting for the same maps...
Blame TL for giving the prize pool based on a broken system. The electorate here is any user on TL (with a limit of one account per user)--just because individuals hold considerable sway over the electorate doesn't make it vote fixing. I know it sucks, but TL changing the system now would be more unfair.
On October 06 2017 15:53 SidianTheBard wrote: I hope to god you guys reject everybody with less than 5 TL posts. I love that in the past hour suddenly 50 people that have never been to TL decided to register and vote for maps...
On what grounds? These are actual people not bots--just because some streamers encouraged viewers to vote as a block doesn't make their votes any less valid.
Because this isn't about what map makes ladder or not, this is about what map gets $$$ or not. So it's basically saying as long as the biggest streamer loves your maps you will get the most votes.
If these are the top 5 maps, the only reason they won is because Winter listed his top 5 maps and all his viewers voted for it just because.
You know somebody is fixing the vote when all of a sudden, at 3am, we get a sudden burst of 50 "new TL accounts" with 1 post all voting for the same maps...
Blame TL for giving the prize pool based on a broken system. The electorate here is any user on TL (with a limit of one account per user)--just because individuals hold considerable sway over the electorate doesn't make it vote fixing. I know it sucks, but TL changing the system now would be more unfair.
When the past 50 of 63 have less than 2 posts on TL. You know there is a voting Brigade going on and it's pretty fucking annoying since there is money involved. It's basically saying, whoever is telling all these people to join the forum and vote these maps will win. Either way, I'll copy/paste this again:
On October 06 2017 15:53 SidianTheBard wrote: I hope to god you guys reject everybody with less than 5 TL posts. I love that in the past hour suddenly 50 people that have never been to TL decided to register and vote for maps...
On what grounds? These are actual people not bots--just because some streamers encouraged viewers to vote as a block doesn't make their votes any less valid.
Because this isn't about what map makes ladder or not, this is about what map gets $$$ or not. So it's basically saying as long as the biggest streamer loves your maps you will get the most votes.
If these are the top 5 maps, the only reason they won is because Winter listed his top 5 maps and all his viewers voted for it just because.
You know somebody is fixing the vote when all of a sudden, at 3am, we get a sudden burst of 50 "new TL accounts" with 1 post all voting for the same maps...
Blame TL for giving the prize pool based on a broken system. The electorate here is any user on TL (with a limit of one account per user)--just because individuals hold considerable sway over the electorate doesn't make it vote fixing. I know it sucks, but TL changing the system now would be more unfair.
When the past 50 of 63 have less than 2 posts on TL. You know there is a voting Brigade going on and it's pretty fucking annoying since there is money involved. It's basically saying, whoever is telling all these people to join the forum and vote these maps will win. Either way, I'll copy/paste this again:
I'll be curious how close to the final standings this is...
Yeah that's completely true, but this is frankly what's been happening to a lesser or greater extent every single map contest. Only this time it's clearly apparent.
Bluntly if you want a system that rewards the best map you're not going to turn to a public vote--even if there was no vote brigading going on. I'm sure TL is aware of all this too, only having a public vote does make people pay attention to the contest, so while a few mapmakers might lose out it's still worth it overall. I wonder if that's one of the reasons why they changed the prizepool structure to reward all the finalists.
On October 06 2017 16:28 Finch518 wrote: I wonder if youd be as mad about it if he voted for any of your maps.
I'm sure he would be. It's a principles sort of thing. -NegativeZero- is the maker of Catalyst and he isn't enthralled by community figures swinging the vote.
i'm glad winter is encouraging participation in the map contest and i definitely don't think he was trying to rig the vote on purpose - but yeah i don't think he should've put that list of his choices up next to the link to vote. that's just begging for people to copy his vote instead of looking at the maps themselves.
this wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem if the community, and pro players/streamers in general, were as interested in the map contest as winter is, because then there would be a lot of discussion and dissenting opinions. but unfortunately, when it's mostly just 1-2 prominent people talking about it (like winter here, or basetrade during the last contest) then you do run the risk of unintentionally swaying a big portion of the vote.
I believe winter could have handled the linking to the thread better if his true intentions were to spread awareness to the map contest. My only criticism of it was like others have stated putting his choices with the link will more than likely lead to people to mindless and blindly follow his voting and not consider for themselves. I don’t believe everyone who came from winter’s stream all mindlessly voted what he voted but you can’t rule out that can be a possibility.
Non democratically selected individuals already had the absolute power to select which maps make to the finals and receive the "free" 100 dollars.
In a competition like this, I wouldnt even care if Team Liquid made a featured news article guiding people what maps to vote.
Also lol at the people who say only active people of Team Liquid community should be able to vote. I wish Blizzard hosted this competition on their battle net website, and then banned most of you people from voting, because you are not active in that forum.
It should be done by blizzard if u ask me why have this all to do the community, i dont get this. And its totally ok that people are interessted in and come online here to vote that needs effort so they are at least interessted in. And i agree thats a good thing. For me best solution is just all with Diamond can vote for 1vs1 maps made by blizzard. Only solution i see here. Cause the problem of deciding which is a good map can only make good players playing the game and actual playing the game. Otherwise keep it like this and dont wine and be happy someone is coming here to vote for this shid. The community is fallen apart anyways long time ago. Its just left a little group care for the game and then let them decidie or just blizzard which doenst support the acceptance of new maps but maybe we dont need this right. Its the same with balance patches u can talk here for days and we dont all accept the patches like they happen but somehow they get created like this, however i dont mind anymore about a DEAD GAME lets be honest.
EPT
