EPTOn September 10 2017 09:56 leublix wrote:
Great series. Now please stop buffing mech in the new patch.
Great series. Now please stop buffing mech in the new patch.
They won't stop until Mech is viable against Protoss.
INnoVation defeats Dark to return to the GSL Finals - Page 2
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
They won't stop until Mech is viable against Protoss. | ||
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SamuelGreen
Sweden292 Posts
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Powerfoe
Canada167 Posts
On September 10 2017 00:19 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: INnoVation’s proxy 1/1/1 killed Dark's third and main, but Dark built a nydus worm and evacuated his drones. Having swapped mains, INnoVation sieged Dark's third with marines, tanks and liberators, but was overwhelmed by ravagers, zergling, speedless banes and queens to concede the lead. Jesus we need more passion in these recaps. It doesn't even feel like the writer even watched the games live. | ||
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SCHWARZENEGGER
206 Posts
On September 10 2017 04:22 NomaKasd wrote: btw isn't this another 2 year run zerg hasn't won a GSL again.............. Blizzard. Balance team. Hello, think Mcfly think! he lost just 3-4 why you talking about balance lol, and soo lost his 2 finals in lotv so... | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On September 10 2017 09:56 leublix wrote: Great series. Now please stop buffing mech in the new patch. You are ridiculous, it looks like INno prepared this BO and games plan really hard, because you can't win anymore as bio player, and Dark wasn't really ready for this. It's not a balance problem. And if he can win 4-3 because of the IMBA IMBA IMBA of new and surprising moves and builds, what about the best bio players getting 3-0ed because of hydras (and its the meta ) ? | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Otherwise, this will allow TL writers to craft out a "Neeb > sOs > Inno (meta/balance/peak)" formula to justify Neeb being Top 5 GOAT (Top 3 permanently reserved for MVP, Taeja and Life)... | ||
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zealotstim
United States455 Posts
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ParksonVN
Australia370 Posts
On September 10 2017 17:40 zealotstim wrote: Incredibly good series. Well deserved by Inno. I am guessing his display scared sOs a bit. He seems much less predictable now. Actually i think Inno should better play solid/macro games where he cannot lose against sOs. Trying weird builds would not be great since sOs is the best at chaotic games. | ||
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Zzzapper
1797 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Snijjer
United States989 Posts
On September 10 2017 01:19 yubo56 wrote: Man, this style may not be 100% new but Dark's responses to the banshee -> mech just weren't great. Will probably take some time to figure out, I'm proud of my boy for doing so well against an unexpected style That being said, this is a cool era for mech. Wonder if any of these openings (2 port banshee, thor drop, etc.) will ever become like the FanTaSy TvZ mech build from BW that single handedly revitalizes the style. This 2 port banshee seems promising I don't know how you came to that conclusion, I think he shut down the banshee harass like 2/3 times. | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On September 11 2017 04:54 Snijjer wrote: I don't know how you came to that conclusion, I think he shut down the banshee harass like 2/3 times. The point of the build is not to do game ending damage with the banshees. It's to safely transition into a mech timing attack with no fear of swarmhosts. Dark didn't really know how to stop the maxed out pushes very well, his vipers were not a good enough solution to win the series. I'll be honest though I do believe even with quick thors available, muta into hive might be good vs it (not too many muta). maybe getting muta will let u get SH too, u dont have to worry about banshees | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On September 11 2017 05:30 nath wrote: The point of the build is not to do game ending damage with the banshees. It's to safely transition into a mech timing attack with no fear of swarmhosts. Dark didn't really know how to stop the maxed out pushes very well, his vipers were not a good enough solution to win the series. I'll be honest though I do believe even with quick thors available, muta into hive might be good vs it (not too many muta). maybe getting muta will let u get SH too, u dont have to worry about banshees The Thor buff was a mistake on Blizzard's part i feel, they should have buffed the useless anti armored weapon, but mutalisks are a somewhat poor response now. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 11 2017 07:57 Morbidius wrote: The Thor buff was a mistake on Blizzard's part i feel, they should have buffed the useless anti armored weapon, but mutalisks are a somewhat poor response now. The Thor buff killed Muta/Ling/Bane as a viable ZvT style. The Hydra buff killed bio TvZ. Revert both so we can have good old 4M vs LBM again. | ||
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ypslala
Burma545 Posts
On September 10 2017 16:07 DieuCure wrote: You are ridiculous, it looks like INno prepared this BO and games plan really hard, because you can't win anymore as bio player, and Dark wasn't really ready for this. It's not a balance problem. And if he can win 4-3 because of the IMBA IMBA IMBA of new and surprising moves and builds, what about the best bio players getting 3-0ed because of hydras (and its the meta ) ? if both play perfect, mech wins. it IS a balance problem. ( and imho dark played better in this series ) banes and hydras: speed banes on creep can sniped by pure micro of the best bio players. and get picked up by the medivac if it gets close. it happens all the time in high pro level TvZs hydra bane is fine. nothing imba there | ||
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Sakat
Croatia1599 Posts
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Elentos
55555 Posts
On September 11 2017 08:34 pvsnp wrote: The Hydra buff killed bio TvZ. Wat | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
I didn't even know hydras were buffed recently The map pool is probably the reason for the recent mechaning. Although I still think that Inno/TY/Maru etc would still be killing zergs just as hard as they used to with bio | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Inno said it himself, didn't you hear? 10% TvZ winrate. No but seriously, LBH is just strong as fuck. When a single build dominates both the ZvP and ZvT metas, and forces both Protoss and Terran into major metagame shifts, that's one hell of a strong build. While I wouldn't say Hydra/Ling/Bane is OP, per se, it would be if the TvZ and PvZ metas didn't change to accommodate it. Both mass Oracle and mech arose out of the need to circumvent the powerful midgame that Hydra/Ling/Bane gives to Zerg. ZvP is out of this context scope, but in ZvT LBH just flat-out stronger than LBM used to be. This is the same argument I was making (to you I think) months ago when Solar was the only one using LBH. Bio-Tank and 4M can both work, but even guys like TY/Inno struggle to end things in the midgame (current map pool doesn't help). Gambling on a massive tank push before Ultras is basically a coinflip, and if it fails Terran is just dead (refer Dark vs TY). The alternative is not to commit so heavily and just harass, but the best-case result of that is that Terran transitions a bit earlier into lategame tech. And TvZ lategame is, simply put, Zerg-favored. Bio-Liberator w/ range can fend off Ultras, but Infestors kill kiting and Corruptors/Vipers neutralize Libs. Eventually the BLs come out and Terran is forced into Vikings+Ghosts. MMM/Liberator/Viking/Ghost is just asking for a micro mistake. It can be done. Lategame TvZ is not impossible by any means, but there's a reason Terran traditionally prefers to end things in the midgame. And until LBH came along, they could. A good example of the aforementioned is probably Serral vs INnoVation at GSL vs the World. Inno throwing away ~30 supply let Serral transition into lategame, and then he survived multiple maxed Bio-Tank pushes, a Bio-Liberator doomdrop, then another maxed Bio-Liberator push, until Inno finally admitted that he needed Vikings+Ghosts and made two more maxed pushes that eventually won him the game. And I don't think I'm stretching it to say that Inno is generally considered a tier or two above Serral, especially in that MU. That being the case, what happens when you put a Zerg of equal skill against Inno? I'd heavily favor Dark, for instance, over any Terran alive in the lategame. | ||
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