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4 Posts
After a surprising first season in which dark horse Impact emerged as champion, two more traditional powers, soO and INnoVation, squared off in a best of 7 to decide the winner of the second season of VSL. With almost 2000 dollars on the line, as well as all-important pick position for the teamleague portion of the event, both players had everything to fight for.
The series started off with a nearly twenty minute affair on Daybreak. soO managed to defend INnoVation's proxy marines with minimal losses and only lost six workers to the follow up hellion drops. soO went for a spire while starting his third, but got little done with a small flock of mutalisks. The game normalized from there, turning into the typical bio/mine versus ling/bane/muta battle battle over soO's fourth. After two unsuccessful efforts, INnoVation managed to kill it while taking his fifth base. soO was always behind after that, but he stayed in the game through gritty ultralisk, corrupter, infestor play. Ultimately INnoVation's constant parade pushes proved to bet too much as the Terran took a 1-0 lead.
soO's pool first opening allowed him to cancel INnoVation's natural. INnoVation showed little concern, however, as he teched into a cloaked banshee that notched 14 kills. soO responded with roaches after getting a few mutalisks. INnoVation kept the pressure up with a Stim timing accompanied by hellions. It didn't kill soO's third, but, due in part to the rocks connecting soO’s natural and his third, whittled down soO’s forces to the point that he had no answer for the follow up.
soO safely reached four bases for the first time in the series on Ascension to Aiur. INnoVation's first real action was a drop on soO's main which did little damage, but set up further mildly successful harassment. The game erupted into a basetrade as both players found themselves on the wrong side of the map. soO destroyed INnoVation’s third, but lost his fifth. INnoVation plowed into soO's natural and, despite pulling his army back, soO was unable to clear up INnoVation's position. With no hope for a comeback, soO left the game, putting INnoVation one game from victory.
The players spawned horizontally on Whirlwind, with soO getting the quick scout. INnoVation went for a hellbat push which failed to pay real dividends. The follow up banshee also struggled to do damage. soO went for roaches in response, with INnoVation selecting bio/tank. Hellion run bys kept soO down on workers and eventually prompted a full on attack by soO at the intersection between INnoVation's natural and third. soO looked to be making headway, but his main was being dropped at the same time. The attack eventually sputtered in the face of tanks and a cloaked banshee, leaving soO no choice but to tap out. The victory was INnoVation's fourth of the day, making him the champion of the second season of VSL without dropping a game.
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Man what a bopping. Congrats to Inno! Hope he can continue to dominate this year.
Edit: Also, I hope they eventually make VSL a Premier level tournament. They seem to be putting a lot of effort into the production.
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On July 07 2017 23:45 beepbeeeeeeep wrote:
Man what a bopping. Congrats to Inno! Hope he can continue to dominate this year.
Edit: Also, I hope they eventually make VSL a Premier level tournament. They seem to be putting a lot of effort into the production.
I'm not a fan of Inno, but its quite obvious in every GSL RO16 Group selection others try to screw him all the time. I bet Gumiho will also try to put him in a group with many good TvTers.
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innovation is as close as it gets to a "Flash" of sc2.
you cannot play against him straight up, you just have to snipe him in mirrors and funny ideas.
even then it's highly probable you'll still lose.
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That again in the title, don't know if I should feel bad or smirk about it
#again
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On July 07 2017 23:51 kajtarp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 23:45 beepbeeeeeeep wrote:
Man what a bopping. Congrats to Inno! Hope he can continue to dominate this year.
Edit: Also, I hope they eventually make VSL a Premier level tournament. They seem to be putting a lot of effort into the production. I'm not a fan of Inno, but its quite obvious in every GSL RO16 Group selection others try to screw him all the time. I bet Gumiho will also try to put him in a group with many good TvTers.
Fear is a powerful motivator.
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On July 07 2017 23:51 kajtarp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 23:45 beepbeeeeeeep wrote:
Man what a bopping. Congrats to Inno! Hope he can continue to dominate this year.
Edit: Also, I hope they eventually make VSL a Premier level tournament. They seem to be putting a lot of effort into the production. I'm not a fan of Inno, but its quite obvious in every GSL RO16 Group selection others try to screw him all the time. I bet Gumiho will also try to put him in a group with many good TvTers.
That is how group selection works. Players try to make it so they have the best chance of winning. That includes helping the best player get eliminated
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But Gumiho should be confident in his TvT, he can put INnoVation in his group so INno can eliminate P and Z in ro8/ro4 could be a cool move 
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On July 08 2017 00:42 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2017 23:51 kajtarp wrote:On July 07 2017 23:45 beepbeeeeeeep wrote:
Man what a bopping. Congrats to Inno! Hope he can continue to dominate this year.
Edit: Also, I hope they eventually make VSL a Premier level tournament. They seem to be putting a lot of effort into the production. I'm not a fan of Inno, but its quite obvious in every GSL RO16 Group selection others try to screw him all the time. I bet Gumiho will also try to put him in a group with many good TvTers. That is how group selection works. Players try to make it so they have the best chance of winning. That includes helping the best player get eliminated
I know. It is obvious.
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Really hope Innovation wins SSL season 2 and GSL season 3 now as well. It's obviously quite unlikely all things considered, but damn that's just what we need right now imo
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Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
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On July 08 2017 01:19 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Really hope Innovation wins SSL season 2 and GSL season 3 now as well. It's obviously quite unlikely all things considered, but damn that's just what we need right now imo
I want to see a Zerg win a tournament. We need that more
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Inno my favourite player, Terran my main race. But I am feeling really uncomfortable with no Zerg winners of premier tournaments (quite a few seconds though).
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Poland425 Posts
Man...Getting SoO as an opponent in grand finals must be other pro's wet dream...
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On July 08 2017 03:37 DeadByDawn wrote:
Inno my favourite player, Terran my main race. But I am feeling really uncomfortable with no Zerg winners of premier tournaments (quite a few seconds though).
Most appearances in finals of any race though
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Ye since LoTV release zergs are there in 90% of the finals.
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On July 08 2017 01:19 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Really hope Innovation wins SSL season 2 and GSL season 3 now as well. It's obviously quite unlikely all things considered, but damn that's just what we need right now imo
SSL Season 2 is definitely possible, the format suits Inno's strengths quite well. GSL Season 3 is a much longer shot and dependent on bracket luck. If he manages to avoid aLive+TY though he has a good chance. Season 3 is Inno's specialty after all.
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On July 08 2017 03:37 DeadByDawn wrote:
Inno my favourite player, Terran my main race. But I am feeling really uncomfortable with no Zerg winners of premier tournaments (quite a few seconds though).
Blame soO. Tons of finals appearances for Zerg, no Zerg trophy.
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On July 08 2017 03:37 DeadByDawn wrote:
Inno my favourite player, Terran my main race. But I am feeling really uncomfortable with no Zerg winners of premier tournaments (quite a few seconds though).
Terran is strongest at the tip top levels of play because it's the hardest/most micro rewarding race out of the 3. Add on top of that no Life playing and he was like the defacto star power Zerg not being in the scene anymore and you pretty much only have what...
Dark?
SoO?
Rogue hasn't been playing at a mega high level in quite awhile now, he just looks lost against high level Terrans. Ironically he is like top 10 on Korean GM server but a bad tournament player.
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On July 08 2017 04:24 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 01:19 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Really hope Innovation wins SSL season 2 and GSL season 3 now as well. It's obviously quite unlikely all things considered, but damn that's just what we need right now imo SSL Season 2 is definitely possible, the format suits Inno's strengths quite well. GSL Season 3 is a much longer shot and dependent on bracket luck. If he manages to avoid aLive+TY though he has a good chance. Season 3 is Inno's specialty after all.
I mean just from a probability standpoint. Even if he is extremely favored against everyone, it still would be relatively unlikely that he wins both.
But yeah i like his chances in SSL in general and he obviously is one of the favorites for GSL as well simply by being Innovation.
I never was a big Inno fan, but i like him more and more :D (and i obviously respect his gameplay a lot)
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damn it went pretty much as i figured it would. poor soo. his best chance is if a terran snipes inno
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^^ how predictable, was waiting for your comment....
Congrats to inno, soO will take Blizzcon!
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On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans
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On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans
Can you name all of these? Would be interested in that 
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On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans
Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player (though he was triggering whiners in 2013 too).
Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him.
Flesh is weak. Iron is strong.
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On July 08 2017 09:45 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player. Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him.
oh please
"Can't even bring up balance when talking about ....." we all know this sentence has %90 chance of being filled with a Terran name.
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On July 08 2017 09:51 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 09:45 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player. Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him. oh please "Can't even bring up balance when talking about ....." we all know this sentence has %90 chance of being filled with a Terran name.
Speak for yourself. Not everybody is so biased.
If you think people weren't whining about Life and Zest, then you have a really bad memory.
90% is a ludicrously exaggerated figure in any case. Go on, provide me with the names of 8 Terrans on the level of INnoVation.
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On July 08 2017 09:52 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 09:51 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:45 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player. Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him. oh please "Can't even bring up balance when talking about ....." we all know this sentence has %90 chance of being filled with a Terran name. Speak for yourself. Not everybody is so biased. If you think people weren't whining about Life and Zest, then you have a really bad memory.
Can you say Life and Zest one more time please? Can we count them thrice each so you may look like to have a point?
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On July 08 2017 10:00 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 09:52 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:51 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:45 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player. Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him. oh please "Can't even bring up balance when talking about ....." we all know this sentence has %90 chance of being filled with a Terran name. Speak for yourself. Not everybody is so biased. If you think people weren't whining about Life and Zest, then you have a really bad memory. Can you say Life and Zest one more time please? Can we count them thrice each so you may look like to have a point?
Still dodging eh? Go on just name the 8 Terrans, in addition to Inno, and win the argument.
Oh wait, you can't can you?
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On July 08 2017 10:04 DeadByDawn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 10:00 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:52 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:51 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:45 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player. Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him. oh please "Can't even bring up balance when talking about ....." we all know this sentence has %90 chance of being filled with a Terran name. Speak for yourself. Not everybody is so biased. If you think people weren't whining about Life and Zest, then you have a really bad memory. Can you say Life and Zest one more time please? Can we count them thrice each so you may look like to have a point? Still dodging eh? Go on just name the 8 Terrans, in addition to Inno, and win the argument. Oh wait, you can't can you?
Mvp, Taeja, Byun, MMA, MarineKing, Polt, Maru, Bomber
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On July 08 2017 10:00 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 09:52 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:51 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:45 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player. Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him. oh please "Can't even bring up balance when talking about ....." we all know this sentence has %90 chance of being filled with a Terran name. Speak for yourself. Not everybody is so biased. If you think people weren't whining about Life and Zest, then you have a really bad memory. Can you say Life and Zest one more time please? Can we count them thrice each so you may look like to have a point?
Ah, ad hominem. The refuge of fools without a legitimate argument.
After you have learned how to understand logic, I'll consider repeating myself.
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On July 08 2017 10:04 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 10:04 DeadByDawn wrote:On July 08 2017 10:00 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:52 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:51 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:45 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player. Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him. oh please "Can't even bring up balance when talking about ....." we all know this sentence has %90 chance of being filled with a Terran name. Speak for yourself. Not everybody is so biased. If you think people weren't whining about Life and Zest, then you have a really bad memory. Can you say Life and Zest one more time please? Can we count them thrice each so you may look like to have a point? Still dodging eh? Go on just name the 8 Terrans, in addition to Inno, and win the argument. Oh wait, you can't can you? Mvp, Taeja, Byun, MMA, MarineKing, Polt, Maru, Bomber
Here are the players that equal if not greater than them: Parting, Rain, Classic, SOS, herO, Dear, MC, Soulkey, Soo, DRG, Fruitdealer, Solar, Dark, ByuL, Leenock.
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On July 08 2017 11:07 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 10:04 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 10:04 DeadByDawn wrote:On July 08 2017 10:00 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:52 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:51 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:45 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player. Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him. oh please "Can't even bring up balance when talking about ....." we all know this sentence has %90 chance of being filled with a Terran name. Speak for yourself. Not everybody is so biased. If you think people weren't whining about Life and Zest, then you have a really bad memory. Can you say Life and Zest one more time please? Can we count them thrice each so you may look like to have a point? Still dodging eh? Go on just name the 8 Terrans, in addition to Inno, and win the argument. Oh wait, you can't can you? Mvp, Taeja, Byun, MMA, MarineKing, Polt, Maru, Bomber Here are the players that equal if not greater than them: Parting, Rain, Classic, SOS, herO, Dear, MC, Soulkey, Soo, DRG, Fruitdealer, Solar, Dark, ByuL, Leenock.
"Can't even bring up balance when talking about Dear, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time."
Seems like it fits, ok i admit defeat. Well played
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On July 08 2017 11:23 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 11:07 ParksonVN wrote:On July 08 2017 10:04 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 10:04 DeadByDawn wrote:On July 08 2017 10:00 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:52 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:51 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:45 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player. Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him. oh please "Can't even bring up balance when talking about ....." we all know this sentence has %90 chance of being filled with a Terran name. Speak for yourself. Not everybody is so biased. If you think people weren't whining about Life and Zest, then you have a really bad memory. Can you say Life and Zest one more time please? Can we count them thrice each so you may look like to have a point? Still dodging eh? Go on just name the 8 Terrans, in addition to Inno, and win the argument. Oh wait, you can't can you? Mvp, Taeja, Byun, MMA, MarineKing, Polt, Maru, Bomber Here are the players that equal if not greater than them: Parting, Rain, Classic, SOS, herO, Dear, MC, Soulkey, Soo, DRG, Fruitdealer, Solar, Dark, ByuL, Leenock. "Can't even bring up balance when talking about Dear, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time." Seems like it fits, ok i admit defeat. Well played
While i agree that it doesn't fit, it wouldn't fit for most of your examples either
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On July 08 2017 11:23 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 11:07 ParksonVN wrote:On July 08 2017 10:04 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 10:04 DeadByDawn wrote:On July 08 2017 10:00 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:52 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:51 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:45 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player. Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him. oh please "Can't even bring up balance when talking about ....." we all know this sentence has %90 chance of being filled with a Terran name. Speak for yourself. Not everybody is so biased. If you think people weren't whining about Life and Zest, then you have a really bad memory. Can you say Life and Zest one more time please? Can we count them thrice each so you may look like to have a point? Still dodging eh? Go on just name the 8 Terrans, in addition to Inno, and win the argument. Oh wait, you can't can you? Mvp, Taeja, Byun, MMA, MarineKing, Polt, Maru, Bomber Here are the players that equal if not greater than them: Parting, Rain, Classic, SOS, herO, Dear, MC, Soulkey, Soo, DRG, Fruitdealer, Solar, Dark, ByuL, Leenock. "Can't even bring up balance when talking about Dear, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time." Seems like it fits, ok i admit defeat. Well played
Not like Bomber fits much better..
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SoO= the yellOw of sc2 LOL
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United States97276 Posts
On July 08 2017 11:44 ReachTheSky wrote:
SoO= the yellOw of sc2 LOL
yellow wishes he could get this many 2nds
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always a pleasure to watch Innovation play
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On July 08 2017 10:04 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 10:04 DeadByDawn wrote:On July 08 2017 10:00 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:52 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:51 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 09:45 pvsnp wrote:On July 08 2017 09:27 Aegwynn wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
Said about 10 different players since WoL, it might be a coincidence that 9 of them are Terrans Said about basically every single player ever during their period of dominance, including but not limited to Mvp, Life, and Zest. INnoVation is merely the latest to provoke balance whining based on his insane skill as a player. Though it is worth noting that of all the truly great players, INnoVation is the only one still around now (unless you count the shadow of Zest, which I don't). All the early heroes, all the champions of KeSPA, all the famous names gone to dust and song. Except him. oh please "Can't even bring up balance when talking about ....." we all know this sentence has %90 chance of being filled with a Terran name. Speak for yourself. Not everybody is so biased. If you think people weren't whining about Life and Zest, then you have a really bad memory. Can you say Life and Zest one more time please? Can we count them thrice each so you may look like to have a point? Still dodging eh? Go on just name the 8 Terrans, in addition to Inno, and win the argument. Oh wait, you can't can you? Mvp, Taeja, Byun, MMA, MarineKing, Polt, Maru, Bomber
If you are gonna count half of that list then there are plently of top players from other races who are as successful if not more.
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On July 08 2017 12:15 Shellshock wrote:yellow wishes he could get this many 2nds
I'm sure if he played sc2 he would LOL
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Are there vods for these? I found them on Twitch (I think) but I didn't know what time stamp I'd be looking for, for the Innovation versus Soo games.
I guess a better question would be, where could I expect to find the vods? Will they ever be available on Team Liquid? I tried searching for vods, but searching for vods isn't a skill I'd put on my resume.
Thanks in advance!
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On July 08 2017 17:33 Frudgey wrote:
Are there vods for these? I found them on Twitch (I think) but I didn't know what time stamp I'd be looking for, for the Innovation versus Soo games.
I guess a better question would be, where could I expect to find the vods? Will they ever be available on Team Liquid? I tried searching for vods, but searching for vods isn't a skill I'd put on my resume.
Thanks in advance!
Here
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oh wow. grats to Innovation and nice recap. the short vods capture really the essence for me.
has there been at least one finals that was at least close for soO?
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United States1902 Posts
On July 08 2017 20:40 MrMischelito wrote:
oh wow. grats to Innovation and nice recap. the short vods capture really the essence for me.
has there been at least one finals that was at least close for soO?
He won at least two games in all his GSL Finals, so they were all close. In fact, one of the biggest blowout finals he was involved in was his KeSPA Cup victory over Dark in which he completely dominated Dark.
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i hope soo is taking medication
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English VODs please, want to watch.:o
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United States1902 Posts
On July 08 2017 21:48 PuroYO wrote:
English VODs please, want to watch.:o
No English broadcast. No English vods. Watch it in Korean like everyone else.
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Poland425 Posts
Guys. Don't worry about soO. I bet he just didn't want to show his builds before Grand Finals of third season of Code S :-)
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"With almost 2000 dollars on the line"
Why is the amount of money in terms of price pool so extremely low in SC2?
Also, it's pathetic that there are no English cast and VODs, laughable, even.
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On July 09 2017 07:03 PuroYO wrote:
Why is the amount of money in terms of price pool so extremely low in SC2?
They really aren't if you consider most esports are team based. For most games if you take the prize money and divide it by the amount of players involved, they don't really get more per head than SC2 players would in a tournament of similar proportions (2000$ in this case was the difference between 1st and 2nd). Not to mention that the SC2 scene isn't exactly in the best state it's ever been in. Don't compare it to DOTA, no other game throws as much money at their players as DOTA.
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Once again, soo first loser. Inno too strong and focused O_O
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On July 09 2017 07:03 PuroYO wrote:
"With almost 2000 dollars on the line"
Why is the amount of money in terms of price pool so extremely low in SC2?
Also, it's pathetic that there are no English cast and VODs, laughable, even.
It's a new tournament and the first year they've done an individual tournament. Give it time. If it catches on (I think it will; it's a well-produced event), I'm sure they will add an English cast, more money, etc. So just comb your beard, turn the volume down on the bitching, and sit tight because it will get there.
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On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
best sc2 player of all time doesn't blow an 3-0 lead, sorry
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On July 11 2017 05:00 necrosexy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
best sc2 player of all time doesn't blow an 3-0 lead, sorry
I mean you can find any arbitrary criteria to exclude someone from the consideration of "best player ever".
Your example is definitely one possibility
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On July 11 2017 05:00 necrosexy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
best sc2 player of all time doesn't blow an 3-0 lead, sorry
Best player doesn't matchfix. Best player doesn't flee to Europe.
Best player doesn't have a bad haircut, for all I know.
Anyone can throw in arbitrary disqualifiers tailored to disqualify any player. At least provide a valid, consistent, explanation.
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On July 11 2017 05:00 necrosexy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
best sc2 player of all time doesn't blow an 3-0 lead, sorry
I know it's not exactly the same (because bw didn't really do bo7 afaik), but it's still similar enough:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2010_Korean_Air_OSL
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On July 11 2017 05:12 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2017 05:00 necrosexy wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
best sc2 player of all time doesn't blow an 3-0 lead, sorry Best player doesn't matchfix. Best player doesn't flee to Europe. Best player doesn't have a bad haircut, for all I know. Anyone can throw in arbitrary disqualifiers tailored to disqualify any player. At least provide a valid, consistent, explanation.
lol arbitrary ok ...he choked in the finals no less!
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On July 08 2017 17:33 Frudgey wrote:
Are there vods for these? I found them on Twitch (I think) but I didn't know what time stamp I'd be looking for, for the Innovation versus Soo games.
I guess a better question would be, where could I expect to find the vods? Will they ever be available on Team Liquid? I tried searching for vods, but searching for vods isn't a skill I'd put on my resume.
Thanks in advance!
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/158012554
03:34:24 the match starts
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On July 11 2017 07:33 necrosexy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2017 05:12 pvsnp wrote:On July 11 2017 05:00 necrosexy wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
best sc2 player of all time doesn't blow an 3-0 lead, sorry Best player doesn't matchfix. Best player doesn't flee to Europe. Best player doesn't have a bad haircut, for all I know. Anyone can throw in arbitrary disqualifiers tailored to disqualify any player. At least provide a valid, consistent, explanation. lol arbitrary ok ...he choked in the finals no less!
Nobody is saying otherwise. You defining that as a no go for the title of "the best sc2 player ever" is still arbitrary though.
And as i have shown you, even Flash choked a finals away in bw (well "choked" as in winning till matchpoint and then lose every game)
Flash is obviously still the GOAT in bw (even though Jaedong was the better player  )
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On July 11 2017 07:33 necrosexy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2017 05:12 pvsnp wrote:On July 11 2017 05:00 necrosexy wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
best sc2 player of all time doesn't blow an 3-0 lead, sorry Best player doesn't matchfix. Best player doesn't flee to Europe. Best player doesn't have a bad haircut, for all I know. Anyone can throw in arbitrary disqualifiers tailored to disqualify any player. At least provide a valid, consistent, explanation. lol arbitrary ok ...he choked in the finals no less!
Completely and utterly arbitrary. Because you don't have any specific definition of what "best player in the world" entails and thus have no context with which to measure "choking in a finals" against. For example, if you specified that you are looking at Starleague trophies earned to determine the best player in the world, then choking in the finals would signify the loss of one such trophy.
But as of now, you lack any sort of logic connecting "choking in a finals" to "best player in the world." Until you fill that logical chasm, your words are meaningless gibberish and I will happily treat them as such. Repeating meaningless gibberish like "he choked in the finals no less!" is equally meaningless the second time around.
Exclamation marks don't exactly add logic, either.
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On July 11 2017 08:38 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2017 07:33 necrosexy wrote:On July 11 2017 05:12 pvsnp wrote:On July 11 2017 05:00 necrosexy wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
best sc2 player of all time doesn't blow an 3-0 lead, sorry Best player doesn't matchfix. Best player doesn't flee to Europe. Best player doesn't have a bad haircut, for all I know. Anyone can throw in arbitrary disqualifiers tailored to disqualify any player. At least provide a valid, consistent, explanation. lol arbitrary ok ...he choked in the finals no less! Completely and utterly arbitrary. Because you don't have any specific definition of what "best player in the world" entails and thus have no context with which to measure "choking in a finals" against. For example, if you specified that you are looking at Starleague trophies earned to determine the best player in the world, then choking in the finals would signify the loss of one such trophy. But as of now, you lack any sort of logic connecting "choking in a finals" to "best player in the world." Until you fill that logical chasm, your words are meaningless gibberish and I will happily treat them as such. Repeating meaningless gibberish like "he choked in the finals no less!" is equally meaningless the second time around. Exclamation marks don't exactly add logic, either.
so a player who makes it to a GSL finals, wins 3 straight games over his opponent and then proceeds to lose 4 straight games is "completely and utterly arbitrary" with regard to whether this player is the "best Starcraft 2 player of all time."?
let's agree to disagree.
and don't take it so personally. feels like you're going to pop a blood vessel lol
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On July 08 2017 00:09 shadymmj wrote:
innovation is as close as it gets to a "Flash" of sc2.
you cannot play against him straight up, you just have to snipe him in mirrors and funny ideas.
even then it's highly probable you'll still lose.
life fam life
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On July 11 2017 10:26 necrosexy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2017 08:38 pvsnp wrote:On July 11 2017 07:33 necrosexy wrote:On July 11 2017 05:12 pvsnp wrote:On July 11 2017 05:00 necrosexy wrote:On July 08 2017 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote:
Can't even bring up balance when talking about Innovation, the guy is pretty much the best Starcraft 2 player of all time.
best sc2 player of all time doesn't blow an 3-0 lead, sorry Best player doesn't matchfix. Best player doesn't flee to Europe. Best player doesn't have a bad haircut, for all I know. Anyone can throw in arbitrary disqualifiers tailored to disqualify any player. At least provide a valid, consistent, explanation. lol arbitrary ok ...he choked in the finals no less! Completely and utterly arbitrary. Because you don't have any specific definition of what "best player in the world" entails and thus have no context with which to measure "choking in a finals" against. For example, if you specified that you are looking at Starleague trophies earned to determine the best player in the world, then choking in the finals would signify the loss of one such trophy. But as of now, you lack any sort of logic connecting "choking in a finals" to "best player in the world." Until you fill that logical chasm, your words are meaningless gibberish and I will happily treat them as such. Repeating meaningless gibberish like "he choked in the finals no less!" is equally meaningless the second time around. Exclamation marks don't exactly add logic, either. so a player who makes it to a GSL finals, wins 3 straight games over his opponent and then proceeds to lose 4 straight games is "completely and utterly arbitrary" with regard to whether this player is the "best Starcraft 2 player of all time."? let's agree to disagree. and don't take it so personally. feels like you're going to pop a blood vessel lol
Pedantically, yes, even though the gaps can be filled with inference, you haven't specified the context so your point is totally arbitrary.
Though if you want to end it here, I guess that works too.
Also, I apologize if my post came off as angry, I'm actually enjoying myself.
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On July 11 2017 10:32 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 00:09 shadymmj wrote:
innovation is as close as it gets to a "Flash" of sc2.
you cannot play against him straight up, you just have to snipe him in mirrors and funny ideas.
even then it's highly probable you'll still lose. life fam life
Life is out of the picture, don't bring him up he doesn't deserve to be called the best anymore.
As great of a player and potential bonjwa that Life was, he is a fraud and a cheat, and please don't use the argument that he was 'young and immature', ain't a good one to excuse one.
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Who cares he lost a video game on purpose - its a trivial and irrelevant. Even if it were a big sporting event - again who cares? Not a crime and its victimless. Totally stupid and barbaric that he'd be in jail for that. He should be allowed to play again.
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On July 12 2017 07:10 fishjie wrote:
Who cares he lost a video game on purpose - its a trivial and irrelevant. Even if it were a big sporting event - again who cares? Not a crime and its victimless. Totally stupid and barbaric that he'd be in jail for that. He should be allowed to play again.
It is literally a crime in Korea. And he will never play the game competitively again. It's time to get used to it.
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On July 12 2017 07:10 fishjie wrote:
Who cares he lost a video game on purpose - its a trivial and irrelevant. Even if it were a big sporting event - again who cares? Not a crime and its victimless. Totally stupid and barbaric that he'd be in jail for that. He should be allowed to play again.
Korean law says it is a crime. The Korean man named 이승현, whose IGN is Life, was prosecuted under Korean law, found guilty by the Korean legal system, and sentenced by Korean judges.
But by all means, fly to Seoul and scream at some unlucky bureaucrats about how you, the great and wise and enlightened FISHJIE think that the Korean people, the Korean nation, and the Korean civilization, are all "stupid and barbaric." If they can find any shits to give before throwing you out, I'm sure they'll be delighted to give them to you. I'd give you some myself, but alas, I find myself completely lacking any shits to give whatsoever.
Just make sure to record the trip so I can die of laughter.
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United States1902 Posts
On July 12 2017 08:15 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2017 07:10 fishjie wrote:
Who cares he lost a video game on purpose - its a trivial and irrelevant. Even if it were a big sporting event - again who cares? Not a crime and its victimless. Totally stupid and barbaric that he'd be in jail for that. He should be allowed to play again. Korean law says it is a crime. The Korean man named 이승현, whose IGN is Life, was prosecuted under Korean law, found guilty by the Korean legal system, and sentenced by Korean judges. But by all means, fly to Seoul and scream at some unlucky bureaucrats about how you, the great and wise and enlightened FISHJIE think that the Korean people, the Korean nation, and the Korean civilization, are all "stupid and barbaric." If they can find any shits to give before throwing you out, I'm sure they'll be delighted to give them to you. I'd give you some myself, but alas, I find myself completely lacking any shits to give whatsoever. Just make sure to record the trip so I can die of laughter.
It was really refreshing to do an interview with a Korean on this matter while visiting the country. It's beyond offensive how some foreign fans (like this person) trample on and disregard Korean culture and laws by making outlandish statements like FISHJIE just did. Whether it's on TL or on twitch/afreeca/panda, it's disrespectful and really pisses them off (rightfully so). You'd think at the very least, people could keep such inflammatory opinions to themselves out of respect for fellow Starcraft fans.
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On July 12 2017 08:37 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2017 08:15 pvsnp wrote:On July 12 2017 07:10 fishjie wrote:
Who cares he lost a video game on purpose - its a trivial and irrelevant. Even if it were a big sporting event - again who cares? Not a crime and its victimless. Totally stupid and barbaric that he'd be in jail for that. He should be allowed to play again. Korean law says it is a crime. The Korean man named 이승현, whose IGN is Life, was prosecuted under Korean law, found guilty by the Korean legal system, and sentenced by Korean judges. But by all means, fly to Seoul and scream at some unlucky bureaucrats about how you, the great and wise and enlightened FISHJIE think that the Korean people, the Korean nation, and the Korean civilization, are all "stupid and barbaric." If they can find any shits to give before throwing you out, I'm sure they'll be delighted to give them to you. I'd give you some myself, but alas, I find myself completely lacking any shits to give whatsoever. Just make sure to record the trip so I can die of laughter. It was really refreshing to do an interview with a Korean on this matter while visiting the country. It's beyond offensive how some foreign fans (like this person) trample on and disregard Korean culture and laws by making outlandish statements like FISHJIE just did. Whether it's on TL or on twitch/afreeca/panda, it's disrespectful and really pisses them off (rightfully so). You'd think at the very least, people could keep such inflammatory opinions to themselves out of respect for fellow Starcraft fans.
Well said.
And really, I should not have gone off the way I did at that poor sod, but I've just gotten so fed up dealing with the Life apologists and their woefully myopic "arguments" which always seem to devolve into pretentious moralizing.
이승현 can live however he pleases outside of competitive Starcraft. Life is dead. Let him rest.
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EPT
