KeSPA Cup has finally started, and began with an extremely exciting group. Without any previous matches between Koreans and foreigners this year, we had little clue just how an encounter like this would play out.
Neeb showed that the best foreigners may just be able to hang with the best Koreans right now. In a highly impressive showing, the American Protoss outplayed both Rogue and Zest, winning the group with a perfect 4-0 score.
Rogue appeared to have no answer to Neeb's quick 3-gate adept build with resonating glaives, something that has been a staple of his play for a while. Against Zest, Neeb played a more defensive series, deflecting Zest's stargate play twice and growing into the midgame with a sizable lead each game. It was an impressive performance, and one that makes us look forward to seeing more of Neeb in the tournament.
Zest's PvT looked very impressive again today after a rough string of results recently. Defeating ByuN twice, in convincing fashion as well, may signal a return to form for the GSL Season 1 champion who had lost his last seven series prior to KeSPA Cup. When asked about his loss to Neeb, Zest reaffirmed that he had heard about Neeb's quality a lot, and considered him a strong contender to win the tournament.
Both Neeb and Zest are already qualified for BlizzCon, so today's results had next to no bearing on the race for Global Final spots. It may still affect the seeding, however.
Group B of KeSPA Cup is played tomorrow, with herO , Pet, TRUE and TY.
Todays group was hype as hell to watch, theres definetely something special going on whenever a foreigner beats a Korean. Even better when it happens 2 times in a row :D
PS : surprised how bad Byun looked today in his TvP; it looked so unbeatable just a few weeks ago.
I mean, I watched live so it doesn't really affect me in the end
But do we really have to have the headline include everything you have to know about today's group? I'd rather have some more terrible puns. Something like "Zesty Rogue hits ByuN like a Neeb truck!" seems like it's right up your alley.
Wow, really unexpected, or maybe I was guarding myself from disappointment, can't wait to watch the vod (is it up anywhere?) and really happy for Neeb <3
On September 27 2016 22:34 jamella wrote: Adepts still ruining the game after almost a year from the release, confirms that blizzard has abandoned the game
Oh is that why they're doing huge design overhauls after Blizzcon?
Alas, I didn't feel like adepts ruined anything today other than the chances of 2 players to do well in KeSPA Cup.
So sad ByuN lost. Actually I know he is not that good even he won the GSL there are some fake hype. However I cant find another terran better than him atm.
Saying that Adepts are ruining the game is inaccurate. If it is true then Protoss players should have won every tournament.
You guys who said this are in a way disrespecting Solar or Dark or ByuN for Winning SSL and/or GSL.
For me the accurate statement is: Adepts are good but Zergs and Terrans have a way to counter it. the game is more or less balanced guys. nothing in this world is 100% balanced but the game is near that
On September 27 2016 22:53 [PkF] Wire wrote: Didn't see the games, Protoss/adepts broken or genuinely strong performance ? If it's the latter, that's exhilarating.
On September 27 2016 22:34 jamella wrote: Adepts still ruining the game after almost a year from the release, confirms that blizzard has abandoned the game
Probably one of the last major tournaments we will see for SC2 in Korea
even Byun with his godlike micro and macro can't beat mass Adepts... is what I learned today. No hope left for Terran in TvP.
I can't understand why other protoss players don't use this 7-8-gates mass adepts style. It's so broken in TvP. Just shade in, who cares about tanks and kiting with bio
On September 27 2016 23:12 Traitorwtf wrote: even Byun with his godlike micro and macro can't beat mass Adepts... is what I learned today. No hope left for Terran in TvP.
I can't understand why other protoss players don't use this 7-8-gates mass adepts style. It's so broken in TvP. Just shade in, who cares about tanks and kiting with bio
I use this on ladder. Terrans can stop it with properly placed tanks, depot blocker and well placed mines. Adepts are not broken you just have to learn how to counter them.
In the case of ByuN he was just off today and Zest was prepared for this dropping style and sniping his medivacs.
sad that when a foreigner wins it's attributed to balance. what went wrong in the 88 games byun played against protoss and went 80-8? obviously neeb did something they didn't do with the same units and same balance.
thought neeb played byun, my mistake, replace byun's numbers with zest's/rogue's here i guess
if adepts are too strong that's fine but you can't say neeb only won because of them when there's data indicating otherwise.
On September 27 2016 23:24 brickrd wrote: sad that when a foreigner wins it's attributed to balance. what went wrong in the 88 games byun played against protoss and went 80-8? obviously neeb did something they didn't do with the same units and same balance.
if adepts are too strong that's fine but you can't say neeb only won because of them when there's data indicating otherwise.
good points -though Neeb didn't have to do anything right vs Byun since he didn't play him. What you say remains true with Zest instead of Neeb.
On September 27 2016 23:24 brickrd wrote: sad that when a foreigner wins it's attributed to balance. what went wrong in the 88 games byun played against protoss and went 80-8? obviously neeb did something they didn't do with the same units and same balance.
if adepts are too strong that's fine but you can't say neeb only won because of them when there's data indicating otherwise.
Wait...ByuN didn't play against neeb... Thay are talking about Zest..
On September 27 2016 23:24 brickrd wrote: sad that when a foreigner wins it's attributed to balance. what went wrong in the 88 games byun played against protoss and went 80-8? obviously neeb did something they didn't do with the same units and same balance.
if adepts are too strong that's fine but you can't say neeb only won because of them when there's data indicating otherwise.
good points -though Neeb didn't have to do anything right vs Byun since he didn't play him. What you say remains true with Zest instead of Neeb.
my bad, havent watched the games yet and i mixed up the matchups. i thought he played byun and zest. thanks for the correction, and im sure the point stands with zest's pvp numbers instead of byun's. no matter what the actual numbers are, neeb beat top players
On September 27 2016 23:34 SeriousLus wrote: where in gods name was the freaking twitch stream? how was one supposed to watch this?
O'gaming was the only Twitch streams, SPOTV only streamed on Youtube. That was announced beforehand on Twitter, it was in the LR thread and it was posted on reddit, so that's where you'd have learned about it.
I also hope that Nerchio performs as well as Neeb. The only thing that worries me is that he is not playing Protoss and has 2 people in group that does :-)
On September 27 2016 22:27 Dungeontay wrote: any questions left, that Protoss is favored over Terran??
Despite my t bias I disagree I think tvp is in a good place overall realy all it needs is more build variety from Terran side. I've watched good terran's dominate toss, I've watched good toss dominate Terran. I think that ballance is ok and the mu is fun.
Although I am tempted to make some kind of argument about Neeb's races switching leading to his success, foreign Terran woes. But I will refrain
On September 27 2016 23:46 alukarD wrote: Seriously, people don't want foreigners to do good vs Koreans, and if they do, they are raging and blaming balance.
I've been rooting for Neeb for a while now and I'm really happy for him, and now we have someone to cheer for on a major Korean bracket.
Come on guys!!
I think it has to do with the extremes the fans go through with regards to the koreans in general and the WCS 2016 system.
Korean beats Foreigner "gg all too easy, WCS made foreigners rich for nothing"
Foreigner beats Koreans " WCS system has weakened Korean will to succeed, they don't care anymore"
On September 28 2016 00:00 slit wrote: Hey guys, what about a period of grace? Spoiler much!? I just came here to seek for the vod link and... bam I never learn.
Neeb, one of the strongest foreign Protoss player, caused a tremendous commotion in KeSPA cup by being the first to Ro.8.
Alex said, "I had a lot on my mind - now I'm so surprised and happy to win. I'm sure I can reach Ro.4 if I'm well-prepared. But I do not want to face Byun." - You advanced to Ro.8. How do you feel?
I had a lot on my mind - now I'm so surprised and happy to win
- At first, it seemed you're taken by Rogue's baneling drops. How did you make a comeback?
I was prepared for his baneling drops. Since I was preparing for DTs, I thought I can reverse the situation with Archons.
- You held off all the attacks against Zest.
I was confident because It's a defensive map. Moreover, I bet I could win because I know how to use Disruptors.
- Did you prepare something since you came to Korea? ▶ Actually, I did not expect myself to advance Ro.8. I've mostly practiced ZvZ 6 hours every day. And somehow I got Zest.
-작년까지는 주목받지 못하다가 올해부터 성적을 냈는데 달라진 점은
▶ 2년 전까지는 학교를 다니고 있어서 성적을 낼 여건이 아니었다. 그렇지만 내 자신이 성장하면서 경기에 집중할 수 있는 여건이 만들어졌다.
- 8강서 만나고 싶은 선수가 있나 ▶ 지금까지 저그전만 연습했기 때문에 저그를 만났으면 좋겠다.
- 롤모델인 선수가 있는지 ▶ 올해까지 kt 롤스터 프로토스 선수들의 플레이를 자신의 것으로 흡수하려고 했다. 오늘 롤모델을 상대로 한 승리가 매우 의미있고 기쁘다.
- 하고 싶은 말은 ▶ 준비를 잘해서 4강에 올라갈 수 있도록 하겠다. 다만 변현우와는 만나지 않았으면 좋겠다.
*I'd like to finish this work, but I feel too sleepy. Can someone do me a favour?
On September 27 2016 23:54 Elentos wrote: ByuN 4-1 sOs, 4-1 Dear: "ByuN is such a god wow!"
Zest 4-1 ByuN: "Holy fuck adepts are super broken TvP is literally unwinnable what the fuck Blizzard stop ruining my game!"
Something here doesn't really add up guys. I'm just not sure what it is.
It is the same olds problem: Even if it is perfectly balance protoss gameplay simply doesn't look and "feel" interesting/fair a lot of the time. Obviously there is a huge anti protoss bias going on, but why? Imo it is a lot about how the game looks when one race wins over the other. I will be honest and say that i don't get massively excited when watching mass adepts either.
On September 27 2016 23:54 Elentos wrote: ByuN 4-1 sOs, 4-1 Dear: "ByuN is such a god wow!"
Zest 4-1 ByuN: "Holy fuck adepts are super broken TvP is literally unwinnable what the fuck Blizzard stop ruining my game!"
Something here doesn't really add up guys. I'm just not sure what it is.
It is the same olds problem: Even if it is perfectly balance protoss gameplay simply doesn't look and "feel" interesting/fair a lot of the time. Obviously there is a huge anti protoss bias going on, but why? Imo it is a lot about how the game looks when one race wins over the other. I will be honest and say that i don't get massively excited when watching mass adepts either.
On September 28 2016 00:18 Thouhastmail wrote: - Did you prepare something since you came to Korea? ▶ Actually, I did not expect myself to advance Ro.8. I've mostly practiced ZvZ 6 hours every day. And somehow I got Zest.
Goes to Korea, helps Nerchio fix his ZvZ and still advances. What a baller.
On September 27 2016 23:54 Elentos wrote: ByuN 4-1 sOs, 4-1 Dear: "ByuN is such a god wow!"
Zest 4-1 ByuN: "Holy fuck adepts are super broken TvP is literally unwinnable what the fuck Blizzard stop ruining my game!"
Something here doesn't really add up guys. I'm just not sure what it is.
It is the same olds problem: Even if it is perfectly balance protoss gameplay simply doesn't look and "feel" interesting/fair a lot of the time. Obviously there is a huge anti protoss bias going on, but why? Imo it is a lot about how the game looks when one race wins over the other. I will be honest and say that i don't get massively excited when watching mass adepts either.
With that being said: Zest is best (in PvT)
yea, it often doesn't look satisfying when protoss wins, it usually just looks disgusting even if it actually is fair lol, especially Zest in PvT...
On September 27 2016 23:46 alukarD wrote: Seriously, people don't want foreigners to do good vs Koreans, and if they do, they are raging and blaming balance.
I've been rooting for Neeb for a while now and I'm really happy for him, and now we have someone to cheer for on a major Korean bracket.
Come on guys!!
I think it has to do with the extremes the fans go through with regards to the koreans in general and the WCS 2016 system.
Korean beats Foreigner "gg all too easy, WCS made foreigners rich for nothing"
Foreigner beats Koreans " WCS system has weakened Korean will to succeed, they don't care anymore"
it's not like there's no truth to this. even neeb said that it's hard for koreans to stay motivated if they have nothing to play in.
don't understand the adept hate btw. I think they are really fun units and they don't seem to strong either. I see a lot of games where they appear completely useless. Ultras on the other hand...
also Neeb only beat a horribly out of shape Zest and a Rouge who has shown nothing the entire year. not too impressed.
On September 27 2016 23:54 Elentos wrote: ByuN 4-1 sOs, 4-1 Dear: "ByuN is such a god wow!"
Zest 4-1 ByuN: "Holy fuck adepts are super broken TvP is literally unwinnable what the fuck Blizzard stop ruining my game!"
Something here doesn't really add up guys. I'm just not sure what it is.
It is the same olds problem: Even if it is perfectly balance protoss gameplay simply doesn't look and "feel" interesting/fair a lot of the time. Obviously there is a huge anti protoss bias going on, but why? Imo it is a lot about how the game looks when one race wins over the other. I will be honest and say that i don't get massively excited when watching mass adepts either.
With that being said: Zest is best (in PvT)
Yes its mostly about how the game itself looked. Win and Loss are influenced by a Million variables so its hard to find evidence that a certain Variable made the Difference in The end. Lots of Protoss things like Oracles rekking Mineral lines in seconds, DTs rekking everything or a huge Ball of adepts are frustrating to watch and play against at times. Besides that i hate the adept due to the ability to cancel Shades they can be basically in two places at the same time (aka Schroedingers Adept). On top of that the shade ability is almost never used in an exciting way. Usually its just used to Switch between Mineral lines that are being harassed or to bridge distances and therefor undermine defensive Position without real counterlplay to it. The predictablity to the shade use makes it rather boring. Basically the Adept is a stronger Zealot and thats it. Last but not least Adepts dont really allow for entertaining micro (just like Zealots)
On September 28 2016 01:22 Charoisaur wrote: don't understand the adept hate btw. I think they are really fun units and they don't seem to strong either. I see a lot of games where they appear completely useless. Ultras on the other hand...
also Neeb only beat a horribly out of shape Zest and a Rouge who has shown nothing the entire year. not too impressed.
well, that horribly out of shape Zest can still beat the current GSL champ twice, so I have to wonder what would still impress you in sc2
On September 28 2016 01:22 Charoisaur wrote: don't understand the adept hate btw. I think they are really fun units and they don't seem to strong either. I see a lot of games where they appear completely useless. Ultras on the other hand...
also Neeb only beat a horribly out of shape Zest and a Rouge who has shown nothing the entire year. not too impressed.
well, that horribly out of shape Zest can still beat the current GSL champ twice, so I have to wonder what would still impress you in sc2
yeah but that was tvp where Zest was untouchable for half a year, surely he hasn't forgotten everything he knew about that matchup. in the other matchups however... at least we now know why he cannonrushed Trap. was probably his only shot at winning the game if his pvp is this bad.
On September 27 2016 23:54 Elentos wrote: ByuN 4-1 sOs, 4-1 Dear: "ByuN is such a god wow!"
Zest 4-1 ByuN: "Holy fuck adepts are super broken TvP is literally unwinnable what the fuck Blizzard stop ruining my game!"
Something here doesn't really add up guys. I'm just not sure what it is.
It is the same olds problem: Even if it is perfectly balance protoss gameplay simply doesn't look and "feel" interesting/fair a lot of the time. Obviously there is a huge anti protoss bias going on, but why? Imo it is a lot about how the game looks when one race wins over the other. I will be honest and say that i don't get massively excited when watching mass adepts either.
With that being said: Zest is best (in PvT)
Yes its mostly about how the game itself looked. Win and Loss are influenced by a Million variables so its hard to find evidence that a certain Variable made the Difference in The end. Lots of Protoss things like Oracles rekking Mineral lines in seconds, DTs rekking everything or a huge Ball of adepts are frustrating to watch and play against at times. Besides that i hate the adept due to the ability to cancel Shades they can be basically in two places at the same time (aka Schroedingers Adept). On top of that the shade ability is almost never used in an exciting way. Usually its just used to Switch between Mineral lines that are being harassed or to bridge distances and therefor undermine defensive Position without real counterlplay to it. The predictablity to the shade use makes it rather boring. Basically the Adept is a stronger Zealot and thats it. Last but not least Adepts dont really allow for entertaining micro (just like Zealots)
On September 28 2016 01:22 Charoisaur wrote: don't understand the adept hate btw. I think they are really fun units and they don't seem to strong either. I see a lot of games where they appear completely useless. Ultras on the other hand...
also Neeb only beat a horribly out of shape Zest and a Rouge who has shown nothing the entire year. not too impressed.
well, that horribly out of shape Zest can still beat the current GSL champ twice, so I have to wonder what would still impress you in sc2
yeah but that was tvp where Zest was untouchable for half a year, surely he hasn't forgotten everything he knew about that matchup. in the other matchups however... at least we now know why he cannonrushed Trap. was probably his only shot at winning the game if his pvp is this bad.
Sure, Zest has stronger and weaker matchups, but you can not deny that ByuN is the best Terran in the world and that Zest just beat him twice, which still puts him on that top level as a player overall.
And an 18 year old american kid, just flew to Korea and 4-0ed his group against some of the very best players in Korea. Yes he luckily got to dodge ByuN, but if you look at the history of foreigners competing in Korea, look at the history of NA sc2, this achievement is still huge and should objectively speaking be classified as "impressive".
On September 28 2016 01:22 Charoisaur wrote: don't understand the adept hate btw. I think they are really fun units and they don't seem to strong either. I see a lot of games where they appear completely useless. Ultras on the other hand...
also Neeb only beat a horribly out of shape Zest and a Rouge who has shown nothing the entire year. not too impressed.
well, that horribly out of shape Zest can still beat the current GSL champ twice, so I have to wonder what would still impress you in sc2
yeah but that was tvp where Zest was untouchable for half a year, surely he hasn't forgotten everything he knew about that matchup. in the other matchups however... at least we now know why he cannonrushed Trap. was probably his only shot at winning the game if his pvp is this bad.
Sure, Zest has stronger and weaker matchups, but you can not deny that ByuN is the best Terran in the world and that Zest just beat him twice, which still puts him on that top level as a player overall.
And an 18 year old american kid, just flew to Korea and 4-0ed his group against some of the very best players in Korea. Yes he luckily got to dodge ByuN, but if you look at the history of foreigners competing in Korea, look at the history of NA sc2, this achievement is still huge and should objectively speaking be classified as "impressive".
okay it's certainly impressive but it doesn't mean as much as some people seem to think.
Charoisaur Profile PM Joined August 2014 Germany4498 Posts 2 minutes ago #81 On September 28 2016 01:40 Musicus wrote: Show nested quote +
Sure, Zest has stronger and weaker matchups, but you can not deny that ByuN is the best Terran in the world and that Zest just beat him twice, which still puts him on that top level as a player overall.
And an 18 year old american kid, just flew to Korea and 4-0ed his group against some of the very best players in Korea. Yes he luckily got to dodge ByuN, but if you look at the history of foreigners competing in Korea, look at the history of NA sc2, this achievement is still huge and should objectively speaking be classified as "impressive".
okay it's certainly impressive but it doesn't mean as much as some people seem to think.
It means that Neeb and maybe some other top foreigner CAN compete with the top 20 korean player! VERY impressive!
On September 27 2016 23:46 alukarD wrote: Seriously, people don't want foreigners to do good vs Koreans, and if they do, they are raging and blaming balance.
I've been rooting for Neeb for a while now and I'm really happy for him, and now we have someone to cheer for on a major Korean bracket.
Come on guys!!
I think it has to do with the extremes the fans go through with regards to the koreans in general and the WCS 2016 system.
Korean beats Foreigner "gg all too easy, WCS made foreigners rich for nothing"
Foreigner beats Koreans " WCS system has weakened Korean will to succeed, they don't care anymore"
it's not like there's no truth to this. even neeb said that it's hard for koreans to stay motivated if they have nothing to play in.
Sure, if they have nothing to play in. I think 3 seasons of Proleague combined with two seasons and SSL and two seasons of GSL are pretty good. The fact that he performed poorly in both does not diminish that fact. Had the tournaments not been region locked, he probably wouldn't have done well in those (since all the other good players would be playing in them).
Besides, Rogue rarely competed in tournaments outside Korea, and Zest had a number of deep runs in the GSL/SSL, so his attention would have been divided anyways. In this specific instance, I don't think the WCS region locking is responsible.
On September 28 2016 00:06 .vale. wrote: Well played. Neeb is godlike. Plus, this is the CORRECT way to get ppl's attention, by performance not by trash talk.
Yes, this is the reason, why all the foreign fans cheer for Neeb and don't for someone else.
I mean i didn't necessarily expect it as you can see on my sig, but gz Neeb! Beating Rogue and Zest (even though they both looked questionable in the matchup) is no easy feat! Will be interesting to see what happens in Kespa Cup, can a foreigner make a deep run?
On September 28 2016 02:35 The_Red_Viper wrote: I mean i didn't necessarily expect it as you can see on my sig, but gz Neeb! Beating Rogue and Zest (even though they both looked questionable in the matchup) is no easy feat! Will be interesting to see what happens in Kespa Cup, can a foreigner make a deep run?
On September 27 2016 21:56 Elentos wrote: I mean, I watched live so it doesn't really affect me in the end
But do we really have to have the headline include everything you have to know about today's group? I'd rather have some more terrible puns. Something like "Zesty Rogue hits ByuN like a Neeb truck!" seems like it's right up your alley.
Was wondering when Kespa cup was on. But apparently i can't even visit TL to find out... i have to note everything down and not open the only site where i can find the streams. Yeah...
So where the fuck do i go to find stream schedule with no spoilers ? i opened sc2casts and there was no kespa cup sighting so i came here. Seriously...
On September 28 2016 03:02 FFW_Rude wrote: Was wondering when Kespa cup was on. But apparently i can't even visit TL to find out... i have to note everything down and not open the only site where i can find the streams. Yeah...
So where the fuck do i go to find stream schedule with no spoilers ? i opened sc2casts and there was no kespa cup sighting so i came here. Seriously...
On September 28 2016 03:02 FFW_Rude wrote: Was wondering when Kespa cup was on. But apparently i can't even visit TL to find out... i have to note everything down and not open the only site where i can find the streams. Yeah...
So where the fuck do i go to find stream schedule with no spoilers ? i opened sc2casts and there was no kespa cup sighting so i came here. Seriously...
everything else, just go to their twitch profile for past broadcasts
Thank you. I'll bookmark these. I guess i have to bookmark every twitch channel and check them everyday since you can't go to TL without being spoilers. I mean... ok i'm spoiled ok, i go the LR and i'm even spoiled map score.. it's amazing.
On another note, is it possible to not spoiler the entire group with the thread title? Could someone remind me where the spoiler toggle is again, if it still exists? I don't want the rest of the groups ruined for me since I cant stay up to watch.
On September 28 2016 03:20 operwolf wrote: Congrats to Neeb!
On another note, is it possible to not spoiler the entire group with the thread title? Could someone remind me where the spoiler toggle is again, if it still exists? I don't want the rest of the groups ruined for me since I cant stay up to watch.
It doesn't exist anymore. And considering that this complaint arises every time I assume TL writers are just out to annoy people at this point.
On September 28 2016 03:20 operwolf wrote: Congrats to Neeb!
On another note, is it possible to not spoiler the entire group with the thread title? Could someone remind me where the spoiler toggle is again, if it still exists? I don't want the rest of the groups ruined for me since I cant stay up to watch.
It doesn't exist anymore. And considering that this complaint arises every time I assume TL writers are just out to annoy people at this point.
On September 28 2016 03:20 operwolf wrote: Congrats to Neeb!
On another note, is it possible to not spoiler the entire group with the thread title? Could someone remind me where the spoiler toggle is again, if it still exists? I don't want the rest of the groups ruined for me since I cant stay up to watch.
It doesn't exist anymore. And considering that this complaint arises every time I assume TL writers are just out to annoy people at this point.
On September 28 2016 03:20 operwolf wrote: Congrats to Neeb!
On another note, is it possible to not spoiler the entire group with the thread title? Could someone remind me where the spoiler toggle is again, if it still exists? I don't want the rest of the groups ruined for me since I cant stay up to watch.
It doesn't exist anymore. And considering that this complaint arises every time I assume TL writers are just out to annoy people at this point.
revenge for calling them out on their predictions
we messed with the wrong people
I bet they send direct messages on Twitter to TRUE to spoil everything for him
Why you people talking about topics only when protoss win? Neeb and Zest are obviously top 10 world players, stop talking about adepts, they can ruin the game with any other unit, but atm, is the only protoss weapon (all other units that were strong, got nerfed such as immo or colloss..). Are you going to stop discrediting top tier players, just cause you hate protoss? When byun won gsl, or snute some tourneys, you people hid very well.. GG foreigners, and keep the good games!!
On September 28 2016 03:40 probinghood wrote: Why you people talking about topics only when protoss win? Neeb and Zest are obviously top 10 world players, stop talking about adepts, they can ruin the game with any other unit, but atm, is the only protoss weapon (all other units that were strong, got nerfed such as immo or colloss..). Are you going to stop discrediting top tier players, just cause you hate protoss? When byun won gsl, or snute some tourneys, you people hid very well.. GG foreigners, and keep the good games!!
I think people just find adepts to not be exciting to watch, and they don't make a good visible display of skill even if they still require skill, it's a game design problem not balance
idk if the brackets will work out this way but NEEB VS NERCHIO finals plz.LOL how great would it be with all the koreans, and neeb wins it all(even though i hate toss so much it hurts to even say this LOL) to prove NA is the greatest. ROFL NEEB making NA GREAT AGAIN.
On September 28 2016 04:03 Dumbledore wrote: Why would Neeb practise ZvZ?
Preparing for the Queen armor buff patch. Neeb likes to change races.
I remember when LotV was in beta, after the macro mechanics got removed and Zerg was super strong, Classic in a GSL group selection jokingly said he might switch races if Zerg stays that strong.
It's funny to see so many dumb balance complaints when Neeb played amazingly. I guess it is too be expected, as the majority of remaining sc2 players are Terran / Zerg. Protoss is massively under represented From Gold to GM and everything in between... numbers like 35% zerg 37% terran and 24% protoss in masters...... 37% zerg 34% terran 22% protoss in diamond...... I attribute that to the sheer difficulty to play the race optimally with all the changes in lotv. They are below 50% in both matchups on aligulac as well.
But hey... rabble rabble adepts probably won rabble rabble diminish diminish.
Er, would it be too much to ask that you don't f*cking announce all the results in a headline? Some of us can't sit in front of live casts all day and were looking forward to watching the VODs without knowing the results...
Neeb was definitely favored among foreigners. He's been practicing in Korea for months with someone like ByuN, Solar, Dear, and many other good Korean players. Even Korean commentators claimed that Neeb is probably one of biggest darkhorse in this tournament and predicted "if Neeb avoid ByuN in group stage, he might have good chance to advance to Ro8' and he really did. While Neeb was showing his great performance, rest 3 were worse than their usual performance, Zest was lacking as lately, ByuN's decision making was not good and showing tilted moments, and Rogue.... he just played so poorly entirely in whole group stage, especially vs ByuN in 2nd game..
On September 28 2016 07:14 TheHumanLife wrote: Neeb was definitely favored among foreigners. He's been practicing in Korea for months with someone like ByuN, Solar, Dear, and many other good Korean players. Even Korean commentators claimed that Neeb is probably one of biggest darkhorse in this tournament and predicted "if Neeb avoid ByuN in group stage, he might have good chance to advance to Ro8' and he really did. While Neeb was showing his great performance, rest 3 were worse than their usual performance, Zest was lacking as lately, ByuN's decision making was not good and showing tilted moments, and Rogue.... he just played so poorly entirely in whole group stage, especially vs ByuN in 2nd game..
Zest played way better than the last few times we saw him, at least against ByuN.
I am quite upset I went to sleep right before Neeb's games. At least there are vods. I'm just happy with the results, its cool to see an American Protoss do so well. The hype was real. Keep up the work brotha.
Zest played way better than the last few times we saw him, at least against ByuN.
Probably. But we caught Zest's decision making and mechanics were still lacking a lot compared to his prime early 2016. I would say Zest did good job to take out ByuN, but his performance was not impressive to be honest vs ByuN. ByuN also played not good vs Zest.
Reddit is saying that Zest got a build order win in game 2 and Neeb did some amazing play to still win. I dunno about that, but Neeb played the cleanest he ever has, and Zest underestimated him by a longshot. Neeb has potential to do well in Starleagues I fully believe that. He managed to get an advantage early on vs one of the clutchest PvPers and he carried it all the way to win, something very few Protoss can do.
On September 28 2016 07:37 Fango wrote: Reddit is saying that Zest got a build order win in game 2 and Neeb did some amazing play to still win. I dunno about that, but Neeb played the cleanest he ever has, and Zest underestimated him by a longshot. Neeb has potential to do well in Starleagues I fully believe that. He managed to get an advantage early on vs one of the clutchest PvPers and he carried it all the way to win, something very few Protoss can do.
Looks like an ordinary PvP to me?
Most opening builds are on par with each other in the pvp meta, it's how mid-game pans out (control, compositions, transitions, harrassment) is where any discernible advantage is gained.
On September 28 2016 07:37 Fango wrote: Reddit is saying that Zest got a build order win in game 2 and Neeb did some amazing play to still win. I dunno about that, but Neeb played the cleanest he ever has, and Zest underestimated him by a longshot. Neeb has potential to do well in Starleagues I fully believe that. He managed to get an advantage early on vs one of the clutchest PvPers and he carried it all the way to win, something very few Protoss can do.
Looks like an ordinary PvP to me?
Most opening builds are on par with each other in the pvp meta, it's how mid-game pans out (control, compositions, transitions, harrassment) is where any discernible advantage is gained.
Still something Neeb excelled in. Also, maybe it's already been done in KR events, but the adept shade block was something I've just been waiting to see happen for a while and now it has.
On September 28 2016 07:58 Argonauta wrote: Nice recap, I would love some about SPL and other leagues too though. We will have something like this for tomorrow results?
On September 28 2016 07:58 Argonauta wrote: Nice recap, I would love some about SPL and other leagues too though. We will have something like this for tomorrow results?
No foreigner todays games so probably not.
It depends on how interesting the results are. If Pet 4-0s the group we might get a recap.
Game 2 of Zest v Neeb was honestly the more impressive out of all the games, because Neeb played so solidly and just shutdown most of Zest's attempts to harass. His micro was also really on point. One thing that was wierd, though, was Zest's fairly long supply block.
On September 27 2016 22:54 kugel wrote: with spoilers like this i cant visit TL till KeSPA Cup is done
Yeah, it's getting quite ridiculous to be honest. Never used to be this way. What happened?
Not sure, but I liked it when they used to put the results in spoilers tags in the live report thread and link each VOD in spoiler tags as well so you don't have to be up in the middle of the night to fully enjoy a SC tournament.
Now, they are plastering the results all over the front page, in the side bar and even in the OP of the Live Report Thread. And the VOD link just links to the youtube channel with all the VODS jumbled up. I don't get it.
Anyway, congrats to Neeb. Not only did he win, but he won every game convincingly, never once looking like he was in danger.of even coming close to losing- 100% control of all games, 2-0, 2-0. Most impressive.
On September 28 2016 10:54 iamkaokao wrote: wasnt TL looking for sc2 players? how come they not sign byun?, nobody is going to give him a chance?
From what I've heard ByuN has had several offers extended to him, but he's currently happy being teamless (which is understandable considering what his past experience with teams has been like).
4-0? Wow I'm really impresed. I knew Neeb is great player but never thought he's gonna win 4-0 against Rogue nad Zest. Gj Neeb plz continue playing well meanwhile I'll catch the vods
No worries. Neeb may have gotten out of his group, but I give him a smaller chance of making it to the ro4 or higher. That is, unless he faces Protoss.
On September 27 2016 23:46 alukarD wrote: Seriously, people don't want foreigners to do good vs Koreans, and if they do, they are raging and blaming balance.
I've been rooting for Neeb for a while now and I'm really happy for him, and now we have someone to cheer for on a major Korean bracket.
Come on guys!!
theres that.. but then again - this is the picture we got way too often in the last 6ish months.. the 2 Protoss advance as usual.. booring (and the non korean that advanced is the one living and "training" in Korea AND playing Protoss, so...) good result for Neeb ofc but there are factors to be considered here
On September 27 2016 23:46 alukarD wrote: Seriously, people don't want foreigners to do good vs Koreans, and if they do, they are raging and blaming balance.
I've been rooting for Neeb for a while now and I'm really happy for him, and now we have someone to cheer for on a major Korean bracket.
Come on guys!!
theres that.. but then again - this is the picture we got way too often in the last 6ish months.. the 2 Protoss advance as usual.. booring (and the non korean that advanced is the one living and "training" in Korea AND playing Protoss, so...) good result for Neeb ofc but there are factors to be considered here
I looked up the premier tournaments in LotV 2016, and the times when two Protoss advanced was 3 times. One of those was Neeb. So, unless you're talking qualifiers, I have no idea what you're talking about. Protoss over the last two months has been performing slightly below the other two races. Yes, there are factors, but they have little to do with the ones you mentioned.
On September 28 2016 14:35 FrkFrJss wrote: No worries. Neeb may have gotten out of his group, but I give him a smaller chance of making it to the ro4 or higher. That is, unless he faces Protoss.
It depends how seriousy his opponents take him. Zest tried to break him with harass and heavy pressure but it didn't work, Neeb defended perfectly. In a solid macro game I think Zest's experience would give him a lead.
The other protoss in the cup are pretty damn good. Stats and classic have shown some of the best PvP ever. Neeb's best chance is fighting herO I think. Hope he doesn't meet a terran player in the ro8
On September 28 2016 14:35 FrkFrJss wrote: No worries. Neeb may have gotten out of his group, but I give him a smaller chance of making it to the ro4 or higher. That is, unless he faces Protoss.
It depends how seriousy his opponents take him. Zest tried to break him with harass and heavy pressure but it didn't work, Neeb defended perfectly. In a solid macro game I think Zest's experience would give him a lead.
The other protoss in the cup are pretty damn good. Stats and classic have shown some of the best PvP ever. Neeb's best chance is fighting herO I think. Hope he doesn't meet a terran player in the ro8
True, Zest definitely has a lot more experience with the long game in PvP. The only thing though, (and I do realize it was only one map) was that the second game was a decently long macro game, and Neeb dominated that game. It wasn't like Neeb got a super early advantage (wait....actually he did), but not like he did a ton of early economic damage to Zest. Oh yeah, btw, Zest had a 33 second supply block). At the time that they fought, they weren't that far apart with regards to tech, value, and supply.
So perhaps Zest's experience would be more apparent at longer series.
Yes, the other Protoss are good, and I would give Stats and Classic the better chances of beating him. Patience, and as you mentioned, herO, would likely be his easiest opponents. Patience is good right now, and he will be motivated by fighting for his Blizzcon life, but he does not fight in clean games. His wins are often with quite a few mistakes thrown in.
I think what gives me more confidence for a PvP specialist is that when a player less prone to weird builds or being unable to figure out the counter for a composition because that is the player's own race. And though Neeb hasn't faced many/any Koreans who are really good in PvP, It is still the matchup he is probably most confident in (given his recent record in PvP).
Thank you for the coverage and I love you TL, but please consider that we don't need spoilers in the title to be interested. We're on TL because we're interested. And I think most of us hate spoilers.
This wasn't done 1-2 years ago. Now most major tournaments are spoiled.
TL is much more than a news site or an ESPN.com; people also come here to get VOD links, catch up on other SC news while they watch said VODs, and several other things. Nobody comes here for spoilers... and if someone wants them, they can easily click on the article - they don't need it on a silver platter at the expense of the other 99.999%.
Worst case scenario: there used to be a no-spoilers button, maybe bring it back?
Again great coverage. Hope I'm not coming off as a curmudgeon
- At first, it seemed you're taken by Rogue's baneling drops. How did you make a comeback?
I was prepared for his baneling drops. Since I was preparing for DTs, I thought I can reverse the situation with Archons.
comeback? at which point Neeb was behind? Yes, rogue got some probes with bane drops, but he spent every single gas for that. he had basicly no army after that and neeb walked easily over him. that was already a desperation move!
Everybody is happy for Neeb, I am happy for TING!!!
At the times of dawn for SC2, every new sponsor, who puts his money into SC2 deserves lots of credit, as it is saving our eSport! And now, it paid off! After winning the Telecom wars in Korea, their name appears everywhere!
Happy I watched live and didn't eat the spoiler :s
Also happy to see Neeb perform so well - wow. Hopefully it isn't a one hit wonder but something that will continue for the foreigners (go Nerchio!!).
And the SPARKULING korean ads were the icing on the cake! (anyone know if you can get those products in the EU...for some reason I feel like I really need them!)
On September 28 2016 17:55 -KG- wrote: Happy I watched live and didn't eat the spoiler :s
Also happy to see Neeb perform so well - wow. Hopefully it isn't a one hit wonder but something that will continue for the foreigners (go Nerchio!!).
And the SPARKULING korean ads were the icing on the cake! (anyone know if you can get those products in the EU...for some reason I feel like I really need them!)
I am sure, unfortunately, the water does not come with that girl ... you just need to record her voice and use the "sparkuling" in your alarm clock!
On September 27 2016 23:46 alukarD wrote: Seriously, people don't want foreigners to do good vs Koreans, and if they do, they are raging and blaming balance.
I've been rooting for Neeb for a while now and I'm really happy for him, and now we have someone to cheer for on a major Korean bracket.
Come on guys!!
theres that.. but then again - this is the picture we got way too often in the last 6ish months.. the 2 Protoss advance as usual.. booring (and the non korean that advanced is the one living and "training" in Korea AND playing Protoss, so...) good result for Neeb ofc but there are factors to be considered here
Could not agree more with first post. No matter the outcome, there was always going to be salty complaints from people it seems. If Need wins, people cry Protoss imba. If Neeb loses, people rage about WCS format and how foreigners don't stand a chance vs Koreans.
Seriously guys, let's all just be happy at the fact that Neeb, a foreigner, beat two solid Code-S / Proleague players with a perfect clean sweep. Don't take anything away from him by saying it's a matter of balance.
On September 28 2016 23:12 -Strider- wrote: I can't believe how inconsistent sc2 is
it was alrdy hard to be consistent in hots, in lotv it feels imposible with all the new units the game is just harder to dominate with so many more variables
On September 28 2016 23:12 -Strider- wrote: I can't believe how inconsistent sc2 is
it was alrdy hard to be consistent in hots, in lotv it feels imposible with all the new units the game is just harder to dominate with so many more variables
Really? I think it's more consistent than ever! These are pretty much the big names we've been seeing for the past year. Of course, within the top 16 players or so, results may vary because they are so close in skill level, but other than that it seems pretty consistent to me. At least compared to WoL where it felt like a different zerg every final towards the end.
On September 28 2016 23:12 -Strider- wrote: I can't believe how inconsistent sc2 is
it was alrdy hard to be consistent in hots, in lotv it feels imposible with all the new units the game is just harder to dominate with so many more variables
Less variables means it's harder to dominate because there's less making you better than your opponent. There's a reason Flash dominated so hard. He could do everything needed in BW and it was basically impossible for anyone to match his accuracy and speed. In SC2, LotV has a lot more things and little tricks and such to do to gain an advantage, like shade blocking vs adepts, prism micro, more projectile attacks so Terran can also dropship micro, and more than in HotS.
I'm not in the least bit surprised people are coming on here just to complain about spoilers, although I stopped coming to TL first a year or two back when this started happening all the time. You guys want VODS, best site I've found hands down which is updated frequently is sc2linksdotcom. I will always go here first, I repeat FIRST, then check TL when I want to read about the games after I've already watched the vods.
On September 29 2016 12:10 j4kk wrote: I've been coming to TL for the entirety of this year and this is the first time I've seen spoilers in the title of the thread like this.
I think they just couldn't help themselves because it's such a monumental occurrence? :O
it's a legitimate complaint, I think it was just absentmindedness or poor judgement that this has been happening
I imagine the complaints will be heard and hopefully it won't happen much in the future
On September 29 2016 13:50 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Spoilers aren't really THAT big of an issue to me personally at least. Appreciation of the game can happen whether you know the result or not.
I agree with that but i also learned that people in general really get triggered so i don't understand the decision of TL here. You can easily call the thread "Results of Kespa cup group X" and spoil in it.
I don't mind the spoilers. I know TL is a news site and why hide the big news behind cryptic titles? Vod links in LR threads aren't reliable anyway, so better get those somewhere else. Of course, if there are exciting finals I missed, I may not visit TL for a while, because spoilers occur in regular discussion just as well.
EPT
Neeb showed that the best foreigners may just be able to hang with the best Koreans right now. In a highly impressive showing, the American Protoss outplayed both 
Rogue and 
TY. 
we might get a recap.
wow 
