EPTNBA 2016-17 Season - Page 68
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18063 Posts
i've already proven Wiggins defense is horrible. Bjelica is a good defender though.. and Minnesota's defense has collapsed in his absence because his replacement is a below average defender. Makes me feel bad for guys like Rubio and Dieng ... guys who are good defenders. Look for Minnesota's defense to be bad the rest of the year with Wiggins being a big part of why it sucks. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
Bench=Barnes, e. Gordon, Noel, ginobli , Matthews, gasol? Maybe Barnes over Beverly to start. Pretty beast. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 31 2017 01:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i added new information to back my point about the Eastern representative getting beaten badly this year. i've already proven Wiggins defense is horrible. Bjelica is a good defender though.. and Minnesota's defense has collapsed in his absence because his replacement is a below average defender. Makes me feel bad for guys like Rubio and Dieng ... guys who are good defenders. Look for Minnesota's defense to be bad the rest of the year with Wiggins being a big part of why it sucks. Another excellent post  | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On March 31 2017 11:02 Jerubaal wrote: No, I meant from University of Texas. Durant, Aldridge, Tucker, Bradley, and I guess we'll throw in Augustine. :p Rick Barnes couldn't make the Sweet 16 with Kevin Durant on his team. Discuss. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On March 29 2017 11:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote: no, i am comparing the 2016 Raptors to the 2017 Raptors. 2 teams that do not rest their players. my comment is the Raptors are worse based on their performance and my evidence is their win totals in the regular season and playoffs. This is such an asinine claim. Their record took a nose-dive when 2Pats and Derozan were both dealing with injuries and the subsequent time it takes to return to full-form upon return. Before those injuries happened, the Raptors were crushing teams by 15-20 on a regular basis and were also on pace to set another franchise record in wins. It's also highly possible that leading into the All-Star break, Lowry's wrist was already bothering him but the bullheaded idiot that he is, he didn't say anything because he didn't think it was anything serious. Since the trade deadline they're sporting a 12-6 record (.666 winning percentage for those bad at math) which would be good enough to win the entire Eastern conference if you were to extrapolate that over 82 games *(also asinine, but I'm making a point here). Meanwhile, they've improved their defense and gone from a bottom-10 defensive team before the trade deadline to a top 10 defensive team, all while remaining in the top 10 in offense (that 15 points from Ibaka and a double/double from JV every night is helping a TON while Lowry is away, nevermind the 35 and 7 Derozan is dishing out... while FINALLY playing some defense). With Lowry back, even at 60% he's a better PG than Joseph and immediately makes the Raptors the #1 scariest team going into the playoffs from the East, even when you consider that the people seem to think there's some magical "switch" the Cavs can turn on to make them start playing defense after dropping to bottom 10 in defense. WTF are you smoking? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18063 Posts
On April 01 2017 06:45 Nemireck wrote: Their record took a nose-dive when 2Pats and Derozan were both dealing with injuries and the subsequent time it takes to return to full-form upon return. no, it took a nose-dive when the Lowry+Bench lineup got solved by teams. It was the most lethal 5 man squad in the NBA admittedly primarily against other teams 2nd units. Basically, teams started treating Nogueira like a non-shooter on screens. Previously, teams covered him as though he take a 12 foot jumper or dribble into the key. Once teams realized Casey's strict instructions are that Nogeira is only permitted to take shots within 3 feet of the hoop OR pass the ball ... the line up stopped producing. http://www.torontoraptorsforum.com/post/lowry-bench-the-most-efficient-lineup-in-the-nba-8338441 later on, Derozan and Patterson got hurt. Casey/Ujiri had so little faith in this lineup adjusting and once again performing miracles that they traded Ross. it was fun while it lasted and a big reason why Toronto was blowing out teams early in the year .. as you noted. Ross put up the best #s of his career in this line up. It had certain boxscore analysts in this very thread heaping praise upon him. It was fun for a while though. and boxscore analyst guys just make me laugh in general. anyhow, Ross was never required to produce any offense off the dribble and he was just asked to do what he does best.. be a spot up shooter. The line-up relied on Lowry and Joseph free wheeling as playmakers and teams improperly dealing with Nogeira. the decline in this lineup and the corresponding decline in Toronto's offense occurred before PP and DD got hurt. the injuries made things worse. bringing it back to comparing 2016 to 2017. last year's Raptors had plenty of injuries on route to their 56 win season including 50+ games lost by Carroll, JV's thumb, and Lowry's 3 month elbow thing which fucked up his shooting. Even with all that they won 56 games. | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On April 01 2017 08:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote: there is a lot to unpack here so i'll take it 1 comment at a time. no, it took a nose-dive when the Lowry+Bench lineup got solved by teams. It was the most lethal 5 man squad in the NBA admittedly primarily against other teams 2nd units. Basically, teams started treating Nogueira like a non-shooter on screens. Previously, teams covered him as though he take a 12 foot jumper or dribble into the key. Once teams realized Casey's strict instructions are that Nogeira is only permitted to take shots within 3 feet of the hoop OR pass the ball ... the line up stopped producing. http://www.torontoraptorsforum.com/post/lowry-bench-the-most-efficient-lineup-in-the-nba-8338441 later on, Derozan and Patterson got hurt. Casey/Ujiri had so little faith in this lineup adjusting and once again performing miracles that they traded Ross. it was fun while it lasted and a big reason why Toronto was blowing out teams early in the year .. as you noted. Ross put up the best #s of his career in this line up. It had certain boxscore analysts in this very thread heaping praise upon him. It was fun for a while though. and boxscore analyst guys just make me laugh in general. anyhow, Ross was never required to produce any offense off the dribble and he was just asked to do what he does best.. be a spot up shooter. The line-up relied on Lowry and Joseph free wheeling as playmakers and teams improperly dealing with Nogeira. the decline in this lineup and the corresponding decline in Toronto's offense occurred before PP and DD got hurt. the injuries made things worse. bringing it back to comparing 2016 to 2017. last year's Raptors had plenty of injuries on route to their 56 win season including 50+ games lost by Carroll, JV's thumb, and Lowry's 3 month elbow thing which fucked up his shooting. Even with all that they won 56 games. No, their record started to suffer when Patterson originally strained his knee on Dec 29 against Phoenix, at the time, the Raptors were 22-8, they lost the game he got hurt. He was in and out of the lineup and kept hurting his knee until finally the team sat him out until after the all-star break. During this entire stretch of him dealing with his knee injury, the Raptors went 11-15. Since his return after a long rest to heal his knee through the all-star break (and yes, acquiring Ibaka and Tucker), the Raptors are 12-6... without Lowry. You can't honestly look at that saga and not realize that it was because one of their best defenders was playing on a busted knee or not playing at all. Anyone that watches this team knows that Patterson is an integral part of their success, and when he isn't healthy, the team loses more games. He's a much bigger factor in the team's wins than whether or not Carrol is on the floor. This team making a huge turnaround and getting into the playoffs 3 years ago after trading for a bunch of players and getting... PATTERSON wasn't some random fluke, he is an important and integral part of this team's success. I respect that you follow all the analytics and deeper statistical numbers of the game, I love that stuff too. But sometimes the answer is way more simple than a NetRtg/60 or lineup efficiency. Sometimes, an important player is just hurt. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On April 01 2017 04:55 JimmiC wrote: But in college if you are getting stiffs that is also the coaches fault especially at Texas. I don't think anyone's defending him. I mean, he did get fired. I'm just saying the fact that he had KD was kind of irrelevant overall. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On April 01 2017 12:59 JimmiC wrote: Just meaning in college it's all related and comes down to the coach. In pros coaches are stuck with who they get in college the coach is responsible for stategy and roster. So you can claim him for not winning with durrant cause he's a bad coach or recruiter or both! Edit: also jimmyj for the record saying someone is better then Richard Jefferson is only heaping praise in your world, for everyone else it means he is a OK option off the bench. I sorta remember him being a good recruiter and a not so good coach. College doesn't have a salary cap so a big school shouldn't really have stiffs surrounding a player like Durant. They had DJ Augustin on the same team as well. And they had Lamarcus Aldridge the year before. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18063 Posts
On April 01 2017 10:17 Nemireck wrote: I respect that you follow all the analytics and deeper statistical numbers of the game, I love that stuff too. But sometimes the answer is way more simple than a NetRtg/60 or lineup efficiency. Sometimes, an important player is just hurt. the injuries made the team worse. so did their injuries from last year. back to the 2016, 2017 comparison the Raptors competed much more successfully against the NBA's elite last year. The Raptors are 1-8 versus Golden State, Cleveland, San Antonio, Houston. The Raptors players were uninjured during almost all those games and the teams they played were often banged up. During this 8-2 "hot streak" the Raptors are on they've faced 1 team above .500. Oklahoma. They got mangled by a 43-31 team. Its nice that the Raptors can beat below average and average teams. Dallas twice, Indiana twice, Detroit, The Waiter-less Heat, the Bulls in OT, Orlando. These are not championship level teams. It proves the Raptors are clearly an above average team. They're just not as good as last year. If Dion Waiters comes back from injury Miami MIGHT be a top level team. A couple of weeks ago, before he was hurt, Miami mangled Toronto. When Lowry comes back.. who is the back up PG... Joseph or Wright.  I think when they have the lead Wright plays and Joseph sits. Note on Patterson: i love his game. i know he puts up ignorable boxscore #s, but he is very valuable to the team. He is the Jorge Garbajosa of the 2017 Raptors. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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