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On July 28 2016 05:05 Eppa! wrote:
Wind, Solar and Hydro aren't red herrings. They are a part of the solution especially solar if it gets cheap enough.
Climate change is just a Chinese conspiracy to make the west unable to compete with 3rd world production.
Solar maybe, Wind definitely is. Causing more damage than good.
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The only way the world will be fucked is if things get to Venus levels, or if civil unrest leads to nukes. Otherwise there will be changes, but ultimately the world will simply be different.
Different will involve the displacement and possible death of millions of people, but that's happening right now for climate-unrelated reasons and despite everything the world isn't ending.
So relax. Yeah, we've got shit we need to do but if you come to the conclusion the world is fucked you're going to give up rather than act.
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On July 28 2016 05:21 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 05:05 Eppa! wrote:
Wind, Solar and Hydro aren't red herrings. They are a part of the solution especially solar if it gets cheap enough.
Climate change is just a Chinese conspiracy to make the west unable to compete with 3rd world production. Solar maybe, Wind definitely is. Causing more damage than good.
what damage is wind doing?
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On July 28 2016 05:22 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 05:21 Numy wrote:On July 28 2016 05:05 Eppa! wrote:
Wind, Solar and Hydro aren't red herrings. They are a part of the solution especially solar if it gets cheap enough.
Climate change is just a Chinese conspiracy to make the west unable to compete with 3rd world production. Solar maybe, Wind definitely is. Causing more damage than good. what damage is wind doing?
You think wind is just some infinite resource that magically replenishes itself teut?
WE'RE USING UP THE WIND
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On July 28 2016 05:23 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 05:22 Slayer91 wrote:On July 28 2016 05:21 Numy wrote:On July 28 2016 05:05 Eppa! wrote:
Wind, Solar and Hydro aren't red herrings. They are a part of the solution especially solar if it gets cheap enough.
Climate change is just a Chinese conspiracy to make the west unable to compete with 3rd world production. Solar maybe, Wind definitely is. Causing more damage than good. what damage is wind doing? You think wind is just some infinite resource that magically replenishes itself teut? WE'RE USING UP THE WIND
I mean it does have some minor inconviences for ecosystems around the windmills, mostly to do with nocturnal creatures and their cycles getting messed up. But others in humans too where migranes and even loss of hearing due to the constant noise created on levels most humans don't audibly hear but ear drums and things are affected by.
That being said, its pretty silly costly to make one and usually doesn't ever pay for itself is the main reason people refer to it as a red herring in the US. Even with subsidies and permits from governments the maintenance alone makes it not worth.
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On July 28 2016 05:28 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 05:23 killerdog wrote:On July 28 2016 05:22 Slayer91 wrote:On July 28 2016 05:21 Numy wrote:On July 28 2016 05:05 Eppa! wrote:
Wind, Solar and Hydro aren't red herrings. They are a part of the solution especially solar if it gets cheap enough.
Climate change is just a Chinese conspiracy to make the west unable to compete with 3rd world production. Solar maybe, Wind definitely is. Causing more damage than good. what damage is wind doing? You think wind is just some infinite resource that magically replenishes itself teut? WE'RE USING UP THE WIND I mean it does have some minor inconviences for ecosystems around the windmills, mostly to do with nocturnal creatures and their cycles getting messed up. But others in humans too where migranes and even loss of hearing due to the constant noise created on levels most humans don't audibly hear but ear drums and things are affected by. That being said, its pretty silly costly to make one and usually doesn't ever pay for itself is the main reason people refer to it as a red herring in the US. Even with subsidies and permits from governments the maintenance alone makes it not worth.
"worth" is a relative term. That depends 100% on the relative cost of coal/oil, and the assigned cost of the various negative externalities you're avoiding.
I guess some places are super unworth and symbolic, but vestas is a pretty huge company, so i assume they make some money.
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On July 28 2016 05:28 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 05:23 killerdog wrote:On July 28 2016 05:22 Slayer91 wrote:On July 28 2016 05:21 Numy wrote:On July 28 2016 05:05 Eppa! wrote:
Wind, Solar and Hydro aren't red herrings. They are a part of the solution especially solar if it gets cheap enough.
Climate change is just a Chinese conspiracy to make the west unable to compete with 3rd world production. Solar maybe, Wind definitely is. Causing more damage than good. what damage is wind doing? You think wind is just some infinite resource that magically replenishes itself teut? WE'RE USING UP THE WIND I mean it does have some minor inconviences for ecosystems around the windmills, mostly to do with nocturnal creatures and their cycles getting messed up. But others in humans too where migranes and even loss of hearing due to the constant noise created on levels most humans don't audibly hear but ear drums and things are affected by. That being said, its pretty silly costly to make one and usually doesn't ever pay for itself is the main reason people refer to it as a red herring in the US. Even with subsidies and permits from governments the maintenance alone makes it not worth.
how is it not worth
what fucking maintenance is there you build one it's metal and you wait 100 years and collect energy
the migraines shit sounds like some bullshit some woman made up like oh i get migraines from people using wireless
but maybe its science i dunno who the fuck lives next to wind turbines
like how are you saying it doesn't ever pay for itself assuming they keep running you dont know that yet
depends on wind too denmark and ireland are shit hot for wind we make well loads of power
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On July 28 2016 05:31 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 05:28 Cixah wrote:On July 28 2016 05:23 killerdog wrote:On July 28 2016 05:22 Slayer91 wrote:On July 28 2016 05:21 Numy wrote:On July 28 2016 05:05 Eppa! wrote:
Wind, Solar and Hydro aren't red herrings. They are a part of the solution especially solar if it gets cheap enough.
Climate change is just a Chinese conspiracy to make the west unable to compete with 3rd world production. Solar maybe, Wind definitely is. Causing more damage than good. what damage is wind doing? You think wind is just some infinite resource that magically replenishes itself teut? WE'RE USING UP THE WIND I mean it does have some minor inconviences for ecosystems around the windmills, mostly to do with nocturnal creatures and their cycles getting messed up. But others in humans too where migranes and even loss of hearing due to the constant noise created on levels most humans don't audibly hear but ear drums and things are affected by. That being said, its pretty silly costly to make one and usually doesn't ever pay for itself is the main reason people refer to it as a red herring in the US. Even with subsidies and permits from governments the maintenance alone makes it not worth. "worth" is a relative term. That depends 100% on the relative cost of coal/oil, and the assigned cost of the various negative externalities you're avoiding. I guess some places are super unworth and symbolic, but vestas is a pretty huge company, so i assume they make some money.
Right i'm talking stricktly US, there's evidence that it works other wise it wouldn't be done. The reasons listed above (especially in mountainous areas of Virginia where I learned most of this information) are the bigger reasons for them not being done. That and generally people who live in the areas where the windmills are being put up just don't want them cuz they ugly AF.
It would take a universal shift of government business/philosphy for something like solar or wind power to become common place. I fully don't expect it in my life time in the US.
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Whats the lifetime of windturbine? Like 25 years or so? That is 100 quarterly reports, can't have that long term fixes in the US.
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On July 28 2016 05:36 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 05:31 killerdog wrote:On July 28 2016 05:28 Cixah wrote:On July 28 2016 05:23 killerdog wrote:On July 28 2016 05:22 Slayer91 wrote:On July 28 2016 05:21 Numy wrote:On July 28 2016 05:05 Eppa! wrote:
Wind, Solar and Hydro aren't red herrings. They are a part of the solution especially solar if it gets cheap enough.
Climate change is just a Chinese conspiracy to make the west unable to compete with 3rd world production. Solar maybe, Wind definitely is. Causing more damage than good. what damage is wind doing? You think wind is just some infinite resource that magically replenishes itself teut? WE'RE USING UP THE WIND I mean it does have some minor inconviences for ecosystems around the windmills, mostly to do with nocturnal creatures and their cycles getting messed up. But others in humans too where migranes and even loss of hearing due to the constant noise created on levels most humans don't audibly hear but ear drums and things are affected by. That being said, its pretty silly costly to make one and usually doesn't ever pay for itself is the main reason people refer to it as a red herring in the US. Even with subsidies and permits from governments the maintenance alone makes it not worth. "worth" is a relative term. That depends 100% on the relative cost of coal/oil, and the assigned cost of the various negative externalities you're avoiding. I guess some places are super unworth and symbolic, but vestas is a pretty huge company, so i assume they make some money. Right i'm talking stricktly US, there's evidence that it works other wise it wouldn't be done. The reasons listed above (especially in mountainous areas of Virginia where I learned most of this information) are the bigger reasons for them not being done. That and generally people who live in the areas where the windmills are being put up just don't want them cuz they ugly AF. It would take a universal shift of government business/philosphy for something like solar or wind power to become common place. I fully don't expect it in my life time in the US.
Yeah, the big ones are noisy af.
The big thing in europe now is just making them insanely massive and putting them out at sea.
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Solar/Wind + Nuclear is pretty much all we need. We could eliminate 90% of our fossil fuel-based power generation in the next two decades in the first world if there was the political pressure to do it.
Ultimately I'm not worried that the world is going to turn into Venus because humanity is collectively smart when push comes to shove and we already have people tackling the "how can we remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere?" angle. If shit really starts getting real the pressure will ratchet up and shit will get done before we destroy ourselves.
Obviously the more we get done now the better, but I'm not losing any sleep over this.
The Trump + Putin bromance is something much more worrying at the moment.
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the only thing you should be worried about it is getting off your ass and looking after yourself mates the world will look after itself
there's plenty of people much smarter than us to worry about that
we've got top men working on it
TOP. MEN.
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On July 28 2016 04:56 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:37 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On July 27 2016 22:56 Requizen wrote:
Reading news articles about the current status of climate change and I'm seriously too perturbed by it to focus on anything. We're pretty fucked. well If I remember correctly if your in the US or Europe it will probably not be too bad. If your in an island country that exists entirely at 2 ft above sea level you screwed though. of middle east which is gonna be perma drought Doctorbeat is netherlands top kek
You'll drown before we do m8. We're the nation state equivalent of Aquaman.
On the windmills: These are the big ones we're building compared to ones that were already decently sized.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Hza5aEg.jpg)
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The dutch nation are the giraffes of europe.
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On July 28 2016 05:46 Slayer91 wrote:
the only thing you should be worried about it is getting off your ass and looking after yourself mates the world will look after itself
You're joking but I'm honestly probably gonna get a FOID card here before the year is out.
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On July 28 2016 05:43 Seuss wrote:
Solar/Wind + Nuclear is pretty much all we need. We could eliminate 90% of our fossil fuel-based power generation in the next two decades in the first world if there was the political pressure to do it.
Ultimately I'm not worried that the world is going to turn into Venus because humanity is collectively smart when push comes to shove and we already have people tackling the "how can we remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere?" angle. If shit really starts getting real the pressure will ratchet up and shit will get done before we destroy ourselves.
The problem is that even if we instantly stopped using oil and coal completely, the damage doesn't just disappear.
We're already going to be experiencing pretty dramatic shifts in climate purely from the greenhouse gasses already out there. We're basically already fucked, and the longer we continue without major change, the exponentially more fucked we're going to be. It's part of why it's such a sticky issue politically. It's hard to sell "we need to completely change our way of life, so that in 200 years, people are slightly less fucked than they otherwise would be."
If there was clear science saying "cut coal NOW and we'll be 100% fine" then I'm sure western countries would be much more active about climate change, but that's just not true anymore. Rather than acknowledge that we're already heading towards very drastic and unavoidable shifts in the relatively near future, it's so much easier for a 4 year rotating government to just stick it's head in the sand.
Nobodies saying we're going to turn into venus, but look what's happening to europe because one relatively small country is having a war. Imagine a tide of refugee's, say, a million times larger than this. That's a very distinctly real possibility within the next century or two, if we end up following some of the more dramatic projections people have been modelling.
And do you have any source for "removing greenhouse gases from the atmosphere"?
That's a fine phrase to say, but completely ridiculously impractical, both in theoretical implementation, but also just in scale.
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On July 28 2016 05:50 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 05:46 Slayer91 wrote:
the only thing you should be worried about it is getting off your ass and looking after yourself mates the world will look after itself You're joking but I'm honestly probably gonna get a FOID card here before the year is out.
I'm 100% serious but it's hilariously american of you to take that interpretation of things.
but scip will tell you the best self defense technique is parkour
req's brain is like a sarcasm inverter
every time I'm sarcastic he think's im just saying dumb things and when I speak from the fiery passion of my heart he assumes the driest of wit
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On July 28 2016 05:55 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 05:50 Requizen wrote:On July 28 2016 05:46 Slayer91 wrote:
the only thing you should be worried about it is getting off your ass and looking after yourself mates the world will look after itself You're joking but I'm honestly probably gonna get a FOID card here before the year is out. I'm 100% serious but it's hilariously american of you to take that interpretation of things. but scip will tell you the best self defense technique is parkour
No, it's lying on your back wiggling towards the enemy
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thats the second best
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 28 2016 05:53 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 05:43 Seuss wrote:
Solar/Wind + Nuclear is pretty much all we need. We could eliminate 90% of our fossil fuel-based power generation in the next two decades in the first world if there was the political pressure to do it.
Ultimately I'm not worried that the world is going to turn into Venus because humanity is collectively smart when push comes to shove and we already have people tackling the "how can we remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere?" angle. If shit really starts getting real the pressure will ratchet up and shit will get done before we destroy ourselves.
+ Show Spoiler +The problem is that even if we instantly stopped using oil and coal completely, the damage doesn't just disappear.
We're already going to be experiencing pretty dramatic shifts in climate purely from the greenhouse gasses already out there. We're basically already fucked, and the longer we continue without major change, the exponentially more fucked we're going to be. It's part of why it's such a sticky issue politically. It's hard to sell "we need to completely change our way of life, so that in 200 years, people are slightly less fucked than they otherwise would be."
If there was clear science saying "cut coal NOW and we'll be 100% fine" then I'm sure western countries would be much more active about climate change, but that's just not true anymore. Rather than acknowledge that we're already heading towards very drastic and unavoidable shifts in the relatively near future, it's so much easier for a 4 year rotating government to just stick it's head in the sand.
Nobodies saying we're going to turn into venus, but look what's happening to europe because one relatively small country is having a war. Imagine a tide of refugee's, say, a million times larger than this. That's a very distinctly real possibility within the next century or two, if we end up following some of the more dramatic projections people have been modelling.
And do you have any source for "removing greenhouse gases from the atmosphere"?
That's a fine phrase to say, but completely ridiculously impractical, both in theoretical implementation, but also just in scale.
The damage is done sure, but it's not the end of the world, humanity, or civilization, it's just the end of the climate being the one we grew up in, and the introduction of a host of new concerns for future generations and probably a lot more strife/war than we're accustomed to. It's going to suck for millions of people, but it's not going to end the world unless we go crazy with our nukes.
Removing greenhouse gases from the atmosphere is currently impractical and we don't have an effective, efficient means of doing it, yet. But there are prizes being offered for such a solution explicitly because we can't solve everything by reducing emissions to zero now. The more climate change becomes a problem, the more effort will be spent looking in that direction, the sooner we'll find a solution.
So I'm not worried about the end of the world. Yeah, shit's going to get real, but it's going to get real in predictable ways that may rewrite the map, not ways that mean game over.
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EPT
