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I just don't think thats true.
Bastion kills a Reinhardt through shield in like 2s flat dude. Are you even playing the game?
If the Bastion is too bad, or has no map awareness to see the Pharah coming, then he bad anyway and you have way more talent then him. If Pharrah can shoot him, Bastion can shoot Pharah. Pharah dies in like 0.1 seconds to bastion, Pharah needs ult or 3 rockets to kill Bastion. 2 rockets if Mercy is damage boosting Pharah.
Junkrat kinda RNG heavy, for me personally. Maybe I just trash at Junkrat. Even like Zarya Genji, Bastion can literally just shoot the Genji shielded and reflecting shots and kill Genji through the shield.
Bastion as a solo hero can just kill anything that runs through the corridor. You need to flank and have cover fire to kill Bastion, Bastion just needs to press shift somewhere where he has 2 of his flanks covered by a wall.
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Bastion is also the only real panic character you can pick though. if you are about to lose, no one can clear a point or stop a payload quickly except bastion, everyone else needs their ult or is too slow.
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I mean, its possible Bastion is Master Yi or Katerina in the sense that good players just shut him down, but like, you don't even need to flank or camp the way he is right now. In a full comp skirmish he can kinda just sit in the back and spray and pray behind a tank and will probably do as much damage as like a Zarya+AoE Burst Ulti.
Atleast in my experience. Bastion consistently does the most DPS in the game and is relatively tanky. And forget it if he has a Reinhardt + Karma support.
I dunno, I think it makes sense if you face check him you die. I just think you shouldn't have to distract him at one angle to shoot him from another. I think as a champion he should be harmed by his lack of mobility more. Like, I think he would be perfectly balanced if his shift locked him down so he could only pivot like 120 degrees or something. I think he should do lots of damage, but I think right now he is super versatile too. Like if I come up from behind him with Tracer or Reaper or some shit and he is looking the other way he should die before he can physically shoot you, but having played it on both sides, bastion pretty much just kills you then full heals right afterwards.
He is actually tanky enough and his transform is fast enough that he can get jumped by a Reaper in mobile mode and press shift and kill him.
I don't mind him being tanky / having enough damage to win any 1v1 cleanly, I don't mind him being able to lock down a corridor real hard, or make a position impenetrable. But if he is caught out un-seiged he should be totally dead... but for some reason his un-sieged gun does the same dps as Soldiers? For how good his strengths are, his weaknesses should be much bigger. Like 25% higher transform time and limiting his seige-fire angle.
It should be enough to catch him un-seiged or to flank around his position, and right now that isn't enough. And this is just to beat a solo unsupported Bastion, and not a Bastion with a Zarya / Reinhardt and heal / damage support [be it buffs, enemy debuffs, turrets] from a support hero, or flank zone control from a a sniper or builder.
Bastion should require the same amount of coordination to stop you from shitting on his weaknesses as it should require you to not get shit on by his strengths. Right now i don't think that is the case, personally.
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On June 03 2016 12:57 iCanada wrote:
Or a Bastion.
My buddies and I played 6 bastion's last night. Felt kind of gross, we won 6 straight games against ragequitting opponents hella fast and we decided it was scummy as hell. It's kind of like oldschool tank pushes if tanks could shoot up.
The amount of tankiness he has and his damage is kind of absurd. The amount of talent / coordination it takes to kill him when sieges up compared to the amount of talent / coordination it takes to siege up and kill everything is probably 10:1 even if you reflect half his damage with Genji and dash at him with Ult. I don't really think there is a bigger counter to him in the game aside from that. Maybe Hanzo Ult.
On June 03 2016 13:46 iCanada wrote:
I just don't think thats true.
Bastion kills a Reinhardt through shield in like 2s flat dude. Are you even playing the game?
If the Bastion is too bad, or has no map awareness to see the Pharah coming, then he bad anyway and you have way more talent then him. If Pharrah can shoot him, Bastion can shoot Pharah. Pharah dies in like 0.1 seconds to bastion, Pharah needs ult or 3 rockets to kill Bastion. 2 rockets if Mercy is damage boosting Pharah.
Junkrat kinda RNG heavy, for me personally. Maybe I just trash at Junkrat. Even like Zarya Genji, Bastion can literally just shoot the Genji shielded and reflecting shots and kill Genji through the shield.
Bastion as a solo hero can just kill anything that runs through the corridor. You need to flank and have cover fire to kill Bastion, Bastion just needs to press shift somewhere where he has 2 of his flanks covered by a wall.
I feel like I must be playing a different game than you. 6 Bastions is among the least terrifying '6 of one class' comps I can think of. I actually think Bastion seems a bit weak(at the very least he is a 'niche' pick that needs a more than the usualy amount of team consideration around him to work or the art of surprise where the other team is like 'oh they swapped a bastion, oops, we know now). Even then, he's usually susceptible to being sniped, or Roadhog hooked, or just beaten in a peek duel by McCree or Pharah or someone like that, or harassed by Dva or numerous other things.
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I'm envious, I want to play that game, sounds more fun.
Legit a damage buffed seiged Bastion kills a Roadhog before the hook goes off.
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iCanada you should never get close to a upside down lawnmower you might die.
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I'm never that scared of a Bastion.
<Widowmaker player
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On June 03 2016 15:53 Doctorbeat wrote:
I'm never that scared of a Bastion.
<Widowmaker player
*any player of any character except reinhardt
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On June 03 2016 14:51 Eppa! wrote:
iCanada you should never get close to a upside down lawnmower you might die.
I mean...
Its not like you can avoid the bastion hiding inside alcoves right on the points you need to capture to win the game. At least in my experience.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
Pharah can corner snipe bastion, widow maker shuts him down completely, if they are 6 bastions then go 6 genjis for super fun time deflect deaths. Junk rat is good if he can reach the bastion from corners and stuff, roadhog can hook and shoot bastion ezpz and no bastion can't kill someome while stunned. Can just spam hanzo or dank mei meis or even pretty much anyone :D
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On June 03 2016 14:32 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 12:57 iCanada wrote:
Or a Bastion.
My buddies and I played 6 bastion's last night. Felt kind of gross, we won 6 straight games against ragequitting opponents hella fast and we decided it was scummy as hell. It's kind of like oldschool tank pushes if tanks could shoot up.
The amount of tankiness he has and his damage is kind of absurd. The amount of talent / coordination it takes to kill him when sieges up compared to the amount of talent / coordination it takes to siege up and kill everything is probably 10:1 even if you reflect half his damage with Genji and dash at him with Ult. I don't really think there is a bigger counter to him in the game aside from that. Maybe Hanzo Ult. Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 13:46 iCanada wrote:
I just don't think thats true.
Bastion kills a Reinhardt through shield in like 2s flat dude. Are you even playing the game?
If the Bastion is too bad, or has no map awareness to see the Pharah coming, then he bad anyway and you have way more talent then him. If Pharrah can shoot him, Bastion can shoot Pharah. Pharah dies in like 0.1 seconds to bastion, Pharah needs ult or 3 rockets to kill Bastion. 2 rockets if Mercy is damage boosting Pharah.
Junkrat kinda RNG heavy, for me personally. Maybe I just trash at Junkrat. Even like Zarya Genji, Bastion can literally just shoot the Genji shielded and reflecting shots and kill Genji through the shield.
Bastion as a solo hero can just kill anything that runs through the corridor. You need to flank and have cover fire to kill Bastion, Bastion just needs to press shift somewhere where he has 2 of his flanks covered by a wall. I feel like I must be playing a different game than you. 6 Bastions is among the least terrifying '6 of one class' comps I can think of. I actually think Bastion seems a bit weak(at the very least he is a 'niche' pick that needs a more than the usualy amount of team consideration around him to work or the art of surprise where the other team is like 'oh they swapped a bastion, oops, we know now). Even then, he's usually susceptible to being sniped, or Roadhog hooked, or just beaten in a peek duel by McCree or Pharah or someone like that, or harassed by Dva or numerous other things.
Bastion is like ammumu/malphite comps in league. Absolutely terrifying lower down but completely non-existent higher up. So it makes sense that there's such big difference in while people perceive the hero.
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On June 03 2016 14:50 iCanada wrote:
I'm envious, I want to play that game, sounds more fun.
Legit a damage buffed seiged Bastion kills a Roadhog before the hook goes off.
If you try to flamestrike (or whatever the English name is) him as Reinhardt he can kill you if he turns as soon as the shield drops down, before you can get the shield back up.
Although I don't see how D. Va can poke a Bastion, he probably outheals her damage unless she's super close, so he can just start mowing her if she approaches.
Probably the same applies to McCree (you can fan him if you're close enough obviously, but if you try peeking in my experience either you space out your shots to not get predictably mowed down the second you peek, giving him time to repair).
Still better than Mei or Hanzo uncharged lmb-spammers.
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On June 03 2016 17:34 Numy wrote:
Bastion is like ammumu/malphite comps in league. Absolutely terrifying lower down but completely non-existent higher up. So it makes sense that there's such big difference in while people perceive the hero.
I don't think i've ever used bastion for more than the last 45 seconds of a map when i'm losing on defense and need to clear a point really quickly, and have no ult up.
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On June 03 2016 18:37 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 17:34 Numy wrote:
Bastion is like ammumu/malphite comps in league. Absolutely terrifying lower down but completely non-existent higher up. So it makes sense that there's such big difference in while people perceive the hero. I don't think i've ever used bastion for more than the last 45 seconds of a map when i'm losing on defense and need to clear a point really quickly, and have no ult up.
On some maps there are really good spots for a Bastion to sit.
Sometimes I like playing him because he's so easy to play.
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On June 03 2016 18:51 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 18:37 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 03 2016 17:34 Numy wrote:
Bastion is like ammumu/malphite comps in league. Absolutely terrifying lower down but completely non-existent higher up. So it makes sense that there's such big difference in while people perceive the hero. I don't think i've ever used bastion for more than the last 45 seconds of a map when i'm losing on defense and need to clear a point really quickly, and have no ult up. On some maps there are really good spots for a Bastion to sit. Sometimes I like playing him because he's so easy to play.
when i want easy just play McCree. anything easier and i might as well afk on junkrat and tape my left mouse button down.
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When I see people play Bastion on streams they don't sit in a spot, they stay mobile because they've got Soldier's dps and near the same accuracy, and they siege when they need to mow down a choke/hold a point while teammates arrive.
Also I prefer Junkrat for the defense of the last point, usually.
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I think 50% of the widows i run into use hacks. a new one must have just come out. seeing her snap to 3 heads in <3 seconds for headshots including one outside of vision at the time. :/ granted i don't run into many widows.
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On June 03 2016 14:50 iCanada wrote:
I'm envious, I want to play that game, sounds more fun.
Legit a damage buffed seiged Bastion kills a Roadhog before the hook goes off.
If you're in the open long enough for that to happen, you're doing it wrong. With Roadhog, you gotta get a bit crafty sometimes to get around obstacles and find cover. Hook has some pretty good range, so finding Bastion on the very furthest distance possible just takes a bit of practice and trial/error. He literally just sits still, so it's not like he's a tough target if he's in range.
Granted, there are situations and maps you can't really use Roadhog (Reinhardt/Winston shields always make me so sad). For those situations, peaking as Pharah/Junkrat from distance is really your best bet.
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Most of the time I lose to a Bastion the root problem wasn't Bastion, Bastion was just exacerbating the root problem(s).
Typically the problem is my team is fundamentally incapable of trading evenly or better with the enemy due to a differential in skill level or because they won't stop running in piecemeal. It's very hard to win games when that's happening, and Bastion makes it harder since if that sort of thing is happening he'll have the safety and space to do serious work.
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EPT
