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The LiquidLegends Lounge - Page 1259

Forum Index > The Shopkeeper′s Inn
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AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
May 25 2016 22:16 GMT
#25161
youre just

wrong

youre just wrong

you keep saying a wrong thing

im angry
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-25 22:27:38
May 25 2016 22:23 GMT
#25162
If I would change to characters I would:
Make mcrees fan the hammer be able to crit and reduce the damage to 40 per shot doesn't decay with range.
Widows sniper cost 5 bullets per shot.
Zenyatta get more hp and leaches work for 5 seconds out of LOS.
Symmetras teleporter is free but requires charges to be able to tp teammates, her shield only work on 2 heroes but they get 50 in shield, turrets regenerate and spawn faster but can only have 4.
Lucios heal boost is slightly weaker.
D.va HS hurtbox becomes slightly smaller and her ult charge rate in mech is faster.
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
May 25 2016 22:36 GMT
#25163
I think the game is pretty remarkably well balanced, actually. No need to change the characters, just play better lol.

Also kdog you're just wrong. There is much more movement in OW than in CS, and CS players still don't get much better than 50% HS, while the best AWP players barely HS at all. I don't think the problem you're talking about will ever exist.
Writer@WriterYamato
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
May 25 2016 22:44 GMT
#25164
There are 2 "god tier" characters in the game Lucio and Mcree and they are vastly overrepresented in competitive play.
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-25 22:47:17
May 25 2016 22:45 GMT
#25165
The key points of balance in overwatch are always going to be ruleset (map/mode), Mobility, and TTK. Currently it's about Genji/tracer/zenyatta/lucio/symmetra because they skew mobility TTK or both greatly. As headshotting increases TTK decreases, and the need for mobility increases, both to return to the fight, and to avoid the headshots. Widow has a good TTK, but she's really only viable if you control territory, which mobility helps you do. she's essentially dead weight if you lose ground, even with headshots.

Changing the ruleset (increasing/decreases timer or time on objectives needed, or number of objectives, or whatever) is really the only way outside of either adding tons of characters and bans, or heavily changing the way the game is balanced, to unseat certain characters.
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
May 25 2016 23:28 GMT
#25166
I'm a heavy proponent of CL1.
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-25 23:42:16
May 25 2016 23:29 GMT
#25167
On May 26 2016 07:16 AlterKot wrote:
youre just

wrong

youre just wrong

you keep saying a wrong thing

im angry

Ok i'm sorry, a few thousand people and 4 months have reached the peak of aiming in overwatch forever.

I admit defeat

On May 26 2016 07:36 yamato77 wrote:
I think the game is pretty remarkably well balanced, actually. No need to change the characters, just play better lol.

Also kdog you're just wrong. There is much more movement in OW than in CS, and CS players still don't get much better than 50% HS, while the best AWP players barely HS at all. I don't think the problem you're talking about will ever exist.

I mean... no shit lol. CS is pretty much one of the slowest shooters ever. :p

When I'm talking about CS i'm talking more about how it takes to reach the limits of aim. we're talking 10+ years of practice for the best awpers to get where they are today, and even then the gap between the best few and the rest is still huge. The idea that the raw mechanics of any of the people playing right now are even close to "optimal" is just crazy, and the balancing for competitive vs casual obviously also applies characters like Genji or tracer, I'm just using aim as an example here because it's a very clear metric of mechanical skill, which has an upper limit of perfection which humans can only asymptotically tend towards.

Given people trying to say we've reached the peak of how well a widow can possibly be played after 4 months of beta, I don't want to imagine how much of a shitfest the discussion would turn into if we started talking about the much more esoteric skillsets of super high mobility/flanker movement.

Games like league get away with just accepting some champions are gonna suck at lower skill levels in order to be balanced at higher elo's, but OW doesn't really have the character pool to just make 5-6 characters unviable for anyone who hasn't got at least 500 hours of gameplay :p
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
May 25 2016 23:33 GMT
#25168
OW:20XX
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
May 25 2016 23:34 GMT
#25169
I'd tell sarcastically that "Oh yeah because aiming in OW is so fucking unique special snowflake and doesn't translate from many other shooters whatsoever" but I already did and then others said the same thing and you ignored it

fuck stop being wrong aaaaaaaa
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-25 23:40:18
May 25 2016 23:39 GMT
#25170
let's be fair, aiming is just pointing a cursor at a target

it's so simple pigeons can do it
A backwards poet writes inverse.
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
May 25 2016 23:42 GMT
#25171
On May 26 2016 08:39 Dandel Ion wrote:
let's be fair, aiming is just pointing a cursor at a target

it's so simple pigeons can do it

Install a mod that makes heads look like grain, and play it on a touch screen.

Chickens would be literally unstoppable
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
May 26 2016 00:06 GMT
#25172


This seems relevant to some users of this forum.
It's your boy Guzma!
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-26 00:21:42
May 26 2016 00:21 GMT
#25173
That made me think, it would be pretty sick if riot made a featured game mode where you could play league on the patch from 5 years ago.

Probably impossible, not least due to how they've reworked so many core mechanics, but it would be so much fun to get to enjoy season 1 chaos again :o
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
May 26 2016 00:30 GMT
#25174
On May 26 2016 09:06 Requizen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdDuoqGswaY

This seems relevant to some users of this forum.

- Used MtGO as a positive example

Yeah ok I changed my mind if WotC did it to MtGO it's obvously wrong.
Moderator
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
May 26 2016 00:33 GMT
#25175
On May 26 2016 09:30 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2016 09:06 Requizen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdDuoqGswaY

This seems relevant to some users of this forum.

- Used MtGO as a positive example

Yeah ok I changed my mind if WotC did it to MtGO it's obvously wrong.

This post gave me about a half dozen flashbacks to Cardboard Crack strips.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
May 26 2016 01:21 GMT
#25176
On May 26 2016 08:29 killerdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2016 07:16 AlterKot wrote:
youre just

wrong

youre just wrong

you keep saying a wrong thing

im angry

Ok i'm sorry, a few thousand people and 4 months have reached the peak of aiming in overwatch forever.

I admit defeat

Show nested quote +
On May 26 2016 07:36 yamato77 wrote:
I think the game is pretty remarkably well balanced, actually. No need to change the characters, just play better lol.

Also kdog you're just wrong. There is much more movement in OW than in CS, and CS players still don't get much better than 50% HS, while the best AWP players barely HS at all. I don't think the problem you're talking about will ever exist.

I mean... no shit lol. CS is pretty much one of the slowest shooters ever. :p

When I'm talking about CS i'm talking more about how it takes to reach the limits of aim. we're talking 10+ years of practice for the best awpers to get where they are today, and even then the gap between the best few and the rest is still huge. The idea that the raw mechanics of any of the people playing right now are even close to "optimal" is just crazy, and the balancing for competitive vs casual obviously also applies characters like Genji or tracer, I'm just using aim as an example here because it's a very clear metric of mechanical skill, which has an upper limit of perfection which humans can only asymptotically tend towards.

Given people trying to say we've reached the peak of how well a widow can possibly be played after 4 months of beta, I don't want to imagine how much of a shitfest the discussion would turn into if we started talking about the much more esoteric skillsets of super high mobility/flanker movement.

Games like league get away with just accepting some champions are gonna suck at lower skill levels in order to be balanced at higher elo's, but OW doesn't really have the character pool to just make 5-6 characters unviable for anyone who hasn't got at least 500 hours of gameplay :p

The existence of TF2 seems to invalidate your argument.
Writer@WriterYamato
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
May 26 2016 01:42 GMT
#25177
On May 26 2016 10:21 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2016 08:29 killerdog wrote:
On May 26 2016 07:16 AlterKot wrote:
youre just

wrong

youre just wrong

you keep saying a wrong thing

im angry

Ok i'm sorry, a few thousand people and 4 months have reached the peak of aiming in overwatch forever.

I admit defeat

On May 26 2016 07:36 yamato77 wrote:
I think the game is pretty remarkably well balanced, actually. No need to change the characters, just play better lol.

Also kdog you're just wrong. There is much more movement in OW than in CS, and CS players still don't get much better than 50% HS, while the best AWP players barely HS at all. I don't think the problem you're talking about will ever exist.

I mean... no shit lol. CS is pretty much one of the slowest shooters ever. :p

When I'm talking about CS i'm talking more about how it takes to reach the limits of aim. we're talking 10+ years of practice for the best awpers to get where they are today, and even then the gap between the best few and the rest is still huge. The idea that the raw mechanics of any of the people playing right now are even close to "optimal" is just crazy, and the balancing for competitive vs casual obviously also applies characters like Genji or tracer, I'm just using aim as an example here because it's a very clear metric of mechanical skill, which has an upper limit of perfection which humans can only asymptotically tend towards.

Given people trying to say we've reached the peak of how well a widow can possibly be played after 4 months of beta, I don't want to imagine how much of a shitfest the discussion would turn into if we started talking about the much more esoteric skillsets of super high mobility/flanker movement.

Games like league get away with just accepting some champions are gonna suck at lower skill levels in order to be balanced at higher elo's, but OW doesn't really have the character pool to just make 5-6 characters unviable for anyone who hasn't got at least 500 hours of gameplay :p

The existence of TF2 seems to invalidate your argument.

How?

Aim isn't blindly interchangeable between the games, and the issue of character balance isn't really a problem there since they don't have 3-4 viable characters, of varying mechanical requirements, for each role a team needs.
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-26 02:09:14
May 26 2016 02:07 GMT
#25178
On May 26 2016 09:33 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2016 09:30 TheYango wrote:
On May 26 2016 09:06 Requizen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdDuoqGswaY

This seems relevant to some users of this forum.

- Used MtGO as a positive example

Yeah ok I changed my mind if WotC did it to MtGO it's obvously wrong.

This post gave me about a half dozen flashbacks to Cardboard Crack strips.

WARNING: MTG CONTENT
(BUT ITS SO FUCKING GOOD )
(also lol@ Cardboard crack. that comic strip is barely even comic, it's just 'observations about the mtg community but in comic form so LAUGH PLEBIANS'
+ Show Spoiler +

Drafted on a whim tonight---old store introduced Wed. night drafts but none of their other nights have been firing so I didn't expect anything tonight either--lo and behold I was wrong. 7 people but hey, we fired.

I don't normally do draft reports on regular ones but this one was FUCKING special.

P1P1 was Dead Weight (over Ever after)---and I had no idea where to go from there. Black was decently open it seemed but my second colour was nowhere in sight. I got passed Mad Prophet and Breakneck Rider so I figured R was open. WRONG. Got passed the U looter dude, Into the Fold, stitched mangler and a couple U build around enchantments so I figured U was open. WRONG. Got a bunch of amazing G cards in P3---didn't even pick them because it was way too late at that point. Opened a Mindwrack Demon P3 and got passed Triskaidekaphobia...again. So that was nice, I guess.

I hadn't been this lost in an SOI draft since the first couple weeks I tried it, or people were signalling really friggin' badly. In any case, B/R seemed the way to go maybe, so I built:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/br-stupid-draft-part-1/

Match 1: vs Jund(?) delirium

Dude never had mana issues and his deck was solid enough. G1 I smacked into him a few times with a 2/2 then dropped Triskaidek for the win. G2 he curved out REALLY well and had me low. Was able to drop Mindwrack and Triskaidek again for the win eventually. G2 he knew Trisk was a thing and dropped Sinister concoction, but used it a little too early to keep the pressure off. 1 extra damage to drain yourself away from 13 wouldn't exactly have won him the game necessarily because I can make him gain life but I still think it was likely a mistake.

Now THIS is where it gets nuts.

Match 2: vs B/W GY recursion/drain
I have never seen a B/W deck in this format come together as well as his did. TWO Pious Evangels. Ghoulcaller's Accomplices. TWO Sanitarium Skeletons. Gryff's Boon. If it recurred/gained him life/drained, he had it. Oh also, SORIN. G1 I got absolutely crushed when he dropped Sorin on me that he was hanging onto all game (I drew Pick the Brain the next turn )

Now, before G2, I thought to myself: 'With his recursion/drain/lifegain engine there is no way in hell I'll ever be able to keep him near 13 life, so I figured I'd side out Trisk. Also, I sided out RED in its entirety.I had drafted a couple of the build-around mill cards in U but never got the really good stuff (Startled Awake for example). Could have taken Tamiyo's Journal if I felt more dedicated to the mill strategy but I didn't feel good about it during the draft. I still didn't going into G2, but I figured I had a better chance versus his deck than shitty B/R midrange + Trisk. Hell maybe I could mill Sorin.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/br-stupid-draft-part-2/

G2 - Stall out a whole bunch as he's drawing cards with Skeleton key, recurring Skeletons and flying them over my head, doing stuff. I drop Mindwrack Demon, he instantly drops Sorin to kill it, I kill Sorin next turn. His crucial mistake, however, was not ridding the board of my lowly 0/3 Manic Scribe, who proceeded to mill him for 15+ over a whole bunch of turns for the game win.

G3 - Kept a very slow and risky hand. Had only U mana in hand and only Fleeting Memories and black cards. He started looting with Skeleton Key and a Ghoulcaller immediately, taking me down pretty low and filtering as he pleased. Drops two Pious Evangels. I dropped two Stallions and Mindwrack to pressure him from 23 life (I was at 8 or 9). The Manic scribe went down and I managed to mill Sorin. Then, time was called. We were onto turns. It looked like it would be a draw. My board was too huge for him to kill me flat out if I didn't play stupidly, and I couldn't mill him out enough in the 2-3 turns I had left. He gained a ton of life with Grotesque Mutation and ate my only creature capable of beating a 2-power skulk, but the ability to pump my Stallions and hit him the air for 4 every turn meant I was able to win on my LAST turn.


Match 3:---F that, we ID'ed so I could continue the streak and we could go home (my games lasted a long time).

It may not be a 3-0 but a 2-0-1 given the awful deck(s) I drafted and the fact that I SWITCHED OUT AN ENTIRE COLOUR MID-MATCH, and the fact that I still prized highly is more than good enough for me (and I'm still technically infinite over my last 5 drafts :D)

I'm convinced I can do no wrong in this set and now I'm getting afraid to keep going as I know the streak is gonna drop soon (even though I figured this would've been the time).
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Doctorbeat
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands13241 Posts
May 26 2016 09:53 GMT
#25179
Won an OW key from a stream raffle, it's actually pretty damn fun.

Widow/Bastion/Pharah currently my fav.

Tracer is difficult :<

If anyone wants to add me, Doctorbeat#2138
- TEAM LIQUID - doctorbeat on LoL
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-26 11:54:10
May 26 2016 11:49 GMT
#25180
On May 26 2016 09:30 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2016 09:06 Requizen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdDuoqGswaY

This seems relevant to some users of this forum.

- Used MtGO as a positive example

Yeah ok I changed my mind if WotC did it to MtGO it's obvously wrong.

It's a pretty interesting concept though. Feel our legal framework may need adjusting over the years.

Actually does anyone here know if IP law(outside of the US) is about buying or are we "renting" the service to access the good. Brings up interesting issues. An artist can't come into my house after I bought their work and alter it saying "this is my new art". Same with other media too. Yet games this is just kind of how it works. Wonder how it all works from a legality point of view.

edit: Omfg Hydro/Pyroblast reprints. Wotc I don't understand you. How can you do so much right in the same breath that you do so much wrong. All they need to do is reprint oubliette and this set will officially be Pauper set.
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