On April 21 2016 05:16 Seuss wrote: It's important to point out that Rogue has 5 unrevealed cards at this point. Hopefully some of them will be making up for the Blade Flurry nerf.
Blade Flurry is likely the reason why Poisoned Blade was so awful, so while we probably won't see Poisoned Blade 2.0, we could see a Rogue weapon as universally strong for them as Death's Bite was for Warrior.
Couldn't you apply this same logic as to why Warriors shouldn't have really good weapons? Warriors have the best defensive tools so the drawback of weapons is the lowest possible there where as rogue has zero options so they have the highest drawback of the card type
Yeah but Warriors don't have Blade Flurry. Their weapons can be strong because you can't hit -> destroy -> do damage to all enemies. Flurry burst combo was potentially bigger than Force/Savage if you had one minion to use it with. Granted it used more cards and was therefore more balanced, but they were obviously afraid of giving Rogues any uber weapons with the knowledge that they could "use" them twice in one turn to face.
Sure so you remove the face portion of it so it's no longer a wincon. Now you just have to give rogues some wincons. Why go and make it 2 mana more expensive? That's now removing a wincon and removing a way to get back into a game.
I don't even see what's wrong with it doing uber damage to face in one turn. Warriors can do 12 damage combo in a turn. Warlocks can do 15 if they get lucky(or is it more now?). Mages can do 12 with 2 cards and way way more with more cards through any kind of taunt. The only way you can win at hearthstone is if you are able to do unfair things. No top deck can win without doing that.
Back in Beta rogue used to be able to play another style. It was called tempo rogue. They destroyed almost every single card from that deck. Then rogue could only play one style, a style they even encouraged by printing cards that give Coins and Oil. The rest of the cards they print do practically nothing. Now it's the fault of Blade Flurry that they can't print anything worthwhile?
On April 21 2016 05:43 Alaric wrote: Warrior gets good weapon to remove stuff with them, seeing how it lacks direct card draw and removal (execute requires something to get damaged, so either a card, a weapon charge+life, or damaging a minion; battle rage requires other stuff on board that took damage; shield slam/block plays on the defensive mechanic though).
Warriors have some of the best removal in the game wtf. Shield Slam, Execute, Bash, Brawl, Slam. Hell even bouncing blade/Revenge/cleave are good. They also have the most ways to damage both sides of the board which means acolyte of pain is amazing with them while having the best defensive options. Then they have the best weapons in the game too. Warrior is just a better class than Rogue lol. The only saving grace was that Rogue was better against zoo due to blade flurry. Warrior can even do Alex -> Grom which can do up to 16 damage with a weapon equipped.
On April 21 2016 05:43 Alaric wrote: Warrior gets good weapon to remove stuff with them, seeing how it lacks direct card draw and removal (execute requires something to get damaged, so either a card, a weapon charge+life, or damaging a minion; battle rage requires other stuff on board that took damage; shield slam/block plays on the defensive mechanic though).
Warriors have: Slam, Shield slam, Bash, Whirlwind, Cleave, Revenge, Execute and Brawl in the next set, hardly lacking in removal .
The thing that makes rogue a good class is that it can control tempo due to cheap control tools. But that won't matter if they can't carry it into a mid/late game win. I think blizz wants vanilla legendaries with BGH being gutted to carry it to W but then why not just play warrior?
Oh, yeah, I forgot about Bash. That one's just stupid against aggro decks. Brawl, Revenge, Whirlwind, etc. have the "issue" of hitting your board too, so in a vacuum it's not necessarily better. It's just that Warrior's built around taking damage, so "symetrical" effects like this end up a further advantage for them (it prevents them from playing tokens, hue). Whirlwind isn't that great as removal though, it kills tokens, triggers enrage and makes it easier to trade up with enemy minions weakened, but apart from that it has the same value as arcane explosion as far as removal is concerned, and that card's not played.
On April 21 2016 05:16 Seuss wrote: It's important to point out that Rogue has 5 unrevealed cards at this point. Hopefully some of them will be making up for the Blade Flurry nerf.
Blade Flurry is likely the reason why Poisoned Blade was so awful, so while we probably won't see Poisoned Blade 2.0, we could see a Rogue weapon as universally strong for them as Death's Bite was for Warrior.
Couldn't you apply this same logic as to why Warriors shouldn't have really good weapons? Warriors have the best defensive tools so the drawback of weapons is the lowest possible there where as rogue has zero options so they have the highest drawback of the card type
There's a reason why Death's Bite is cycling out without an equivalently strong replacement.
Rogue isn't in a great place, and while tournament-ready decks need to be "unfair" to compete Blade Flurry was problematic. It should absolutely have been nerfed, and I'll reassess whether or not Blizzard went overboard when we see the rest of what Rogue is getting in return.
In the meantime, I think TheYango's concerns are the most important ones right now. Unless Blizzard drops some brilliant cards tomorrow Rogue is likely to remain in a bad place., though I'm always prepared to be surprised by others' creativity.
Eppa's point being that Arcane Explosion not being played doesn't necessarily say much about Whirlwind.
Whirlwind has seen limited use because Death's Bite did its job and provided a weapon. Whirlwind is likely to keep seeing limited use because the new Ravaging Ghoul does its job and provides a 3/3 minion. Deck space tends to be too precious to waste on a spell whose effect can be found elsewhere with an added a bonus.
Overlooking that fact is why so many people (including me) got Antique Healbot wrong.
My point was that whirlwind isn't evaluated solely as "removal", the fact that you get advantages out of damaging yourself/your minions factors heavily into it too.
Anyone else get that thing where like, when you go to look out a window at night and you know there's nothing there because it's just your window but you get that split second vision in your mind's eye of something staring back at you through the window just before you look? But of course there's nothing there but your heart skips a beat for a split second.
The video feels less drug-induced than the lyrics, Wave. It's good and all but when you listen to it, damn what did they take?
HS stream is showing rogue cards: 3 mana common spell, deal 5 damage to undamaged minion (or character? can't remember) 1 mana rare spell, discover a deathrattle card 9 mana epic 4/4 minion, battlecry: destroy a minion, add its stats to you C'Thun. 1 mana common 1/2 minion, combo: gets +1/+1
EPT
