Off-Topic General Discussion - Page 4647

Real talk with MoonBear 2: Electric Boogaloo: The Sequel
If you don't want to read a wall of text, the TLDR is that maths + philo is a great combination that lets you do loads of stuff because it means you can think critically, are comfortable with numbers, and have a big toolbox of skills.

This answer is somewhat nuanced. And I can't think of a good way to organise my thoughts on the matter so I'm just going to stream of consciousness in this post. I apologise in advance if it's hard to follow. There are also a lot of footnotes because I'm just that kind of person. I've put a TLDR at the top if you just need a low down to give yourself comfort that your decision to do a mathematics degree isn't a waste of your life compared to getting your liberal arts degree which unlocks a job working at McDonalds. (1)

For most jobs nowadays, the actual degree you do is not actually that important. (2) For a recent graduate out of university, the most important thing for most employer is that you're not a complete idiot. Very few graduates straight out of tertiary educations are a perfect fit for a job. This is mainly because there's a lot of stuff you just won't have experienced or learned about. Let's say little Timmy has studied a marketing degree and is about to get a job at an advertising company. Sounds like a perfect fit in theory. But there's a lot of things that Timmy has never done before. (3) And that means the advertising company is going to need to spend time and resources training Timmy on the job. So if the company is going to be training Timmy on the job it wants to make sure it hires the best Timmy it can. And that also means the advertising company needs to be willing to look beyond just marketing students cause I mean, hey, you're going to be training people on the job anyway right? Spending a little bit more time on a new hire who clearly has way more potential than someone who's learn the marketing basics but will only ever be average just makes sense. It's good for the company because they get top notch employees, and it's also good for the employee because the learn and develop.

Now, this isn't always the case. For example, some companies have terrible HR so they don't know how to hire people right. Or they have really old-fashioned mindsets and only insist on hiring people who fit their ideal image rather than trying to hire the actual ideal person. Or maybe they don't have the time and resources to train people on the job and they just want someone straight out of education to just come in and start doing grunt work. And that's a very fair point. These companies do exist. However, would you want to work at any of these companies? I assume the answer to this question is no. If you had a choice, you would want to work for that firm which does the right thing, wants to hire the best, and then spend time and resources training them and making them better. And if you're aiming to get hired by these companies, then the problem of "did I study the right degree at university?" should not be what keeps you awake at night. (4)

Let's look at this from the employer's perspective. Their main goal for hiring new university graduates is "I want to hire someone who has potential and I am happy to spend my resources on". So what you want to be doing is the metaphorical equivalent of a giant neon sign flashing above your head saying "MORE POTENTIAL THAN CLG AND WON'T ACTUALLY DISAPPOINT YOU OR GIVE YOU UP OR LET YOU DOWN". (5) If you've studied economics you might recognise this as being a signalling problem. Basically, you're trying to signal to employers that you deserve to get a job. But there are a lot of other people trying to signal that as well. How do you stand out in convincing way that can convince people they should hire you? A good signal is one that is hard to replicate. So that leads to a few obvious things...

• Did you go you a good university?
  People say having the name of a good university matters, and it's true. If you're going to UBC/U of T/McGill or whatever people know that these universities are competitive to get into. Think of it like when you're buying stuff at the supermarket. You tend to buy brands you know will give you a certain quality. The same goes for "buying" someone for a job position. Also, good people get hired by good companies and tend to hire the people who went to the same university as them. Partly because of the feel-good factor, but also because they know the person they're hiring had to go through the same stuff they did. So they know there's (hopefully) a minimum quality expected.
  
  
• Do you have good grades?
  If you have good grades, it's a signal that either you're willing to put in the time and effort to do so, or are just naturally good enough to get in. In theory, that also means either you will be a hard working employee who's willing to work hard to develop into a good employee, or naturally talented and will pick things up.
  
  
• What kind of extracurricular do you do?
  It's easy to say that you are good at working with people from different backgrounds and work hard. It's much harder to say you volunteered at soup kitchen for two years. But it doesn't just have to be social work. That's why people say things like create a portfolio of design work, or start a GitHub space where you store all sorts of random work you do. Talk is cheap. But being able to prove something by pointing at your portfolio/GitHub/proof of community service is something that can't be easily replicated and shows off whatever quality you want people to see.

So if you're approaching the point at which you're thinking about looking for a job, think about what sort of stuff will be on your CV. You want things that will show off the qualities you think your potential employer cares about. Are you going to work in the services industry where you have to deal with lots of people on a daily basis? Something that shows you can get along with people even if they're different from you is good. Working in a back-office job like IT? Get a GitHub account and throw in some projects there which shows off your analytical understanding and the fact you can code elegantly. (6)

Ok I am now going off on a huge tangent here and this is kinda generic career advice you can probably get anywhere (maybe?) so I'm going to stop here and change topic. Your question is more specific about having a major in mathematics and a minor in philosophy and careers from that.

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You've got several key advantages as a mathematics major and philosophy minor you should be using to your advantage. For example, you have analytical skills. Maths and philosophy often give you a problem where you need to stop and think about it for a while before you do anything. Maybe you need to think logically and rationally to break it down into smaller pieces to make it easier. Maybe you spot that it's similar to a previously solved problem and you can use that knowledge to make things easier. Maybe you know that if one approach isn't working you should just stop and try something else rather than just give up. These are all really strong skills to have. I have noticed that at work people who have done analytical degrees are better at solving problems they come across because they already have a toolkit of techniques they can rely on. (7)

Another key advantage is numerical proficiency. Sure, in a mathematical degree most of what you do is abstract or you rely on your super expensive calculator/software to solve problems. But it's more the fact you're comfortable with numbers and don't feel scared about it. If I tell you how to calculate business efficiency metrics, or sampling techniques used in quality control checks, you can quickly grasp these concepts and your eyes don't glaze over. (8) Being able to understand how numbers work is pretty important, even if dull stuff like budgeting and profitability and optimisation.

So let's tie this in with the signalling stuff we talked about earlier. Your degree basically says "I can think critically and I'm comfortable with numbers". So if you're not sure about what kind of job you want to do and just want to take advantage of the signals your degree gives, then aim for jobs where critical thinking and numbers matter. If this sounds super generic and like, can apply to almost anything... that's cause it basically can! Maths and philosophy is basically a giant toolbox about how to think. You want to do become an accountant? Sure, it's all about modelling and critical thinking. Marketing? You'll be surprised how metric and analytically driven it is compared to the stereotype. Business finance and management? Pick up a book on corporate finance and tell me it's not at least 50% maths stuff. Politics? Pushing aside all the stereotypes, read and analysing policy documents, looking at economic impact assessments, and analysing the results of surveys are... you probably get the drill here lol.

Ok I've written like way too much. Hopefully you found this useful. (9)

Footnotes:

1. Ok, that's the obligatory liberal arts joke quota met. A liberal arts degree is not actually that terrible.
   
2. There are several careers where you do need to pursue a specific degree in uni such as Law, Medicine, etc. to work in that field but we'll pretend these don't exist since you likely aren't looking to work in these sectors.
   
3. For example, he's never used the SAP software the advertising company uses to manage its internal admin, doesn't know how to format proposals and design documents in the exact format that the company uses, learnt to read and write in teeline shorthand, invoice a client before, manage financial metrics to understand profitability, fill in a timesheet, work in a cubicle environment where there are constant office noise distractions, work with people that have very different cultural views that may even be offensive, deal with hate mail or clients from hell, create complicated spreadsheets, play office politics, respond to an audit, etc. I can go on for a very long time on this. Even the most go-getter uber-student who did commission work on the side at uni will find something new when they go into the real world of work.
   
4. That's not to say that your underwater basket weaving degree is going to get you a job. Than again, if someone chooses to study that degree than there's not much I can do to help them lol
   
5. Why CLG why?? T_T
   
6. Hahahaha good luck
   
7. Standard disclaimer about anecdotal evidence sample size of one correlation does not equal causation yadda yadda
   
8. You know the stereotype about "maths is hard"? It's still very real in the adult world.
   
9. And if it didn't, maybe it made you laugh?