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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
 GSL Season 2Streams & CastersFormat
Map Pool Group CResults+ Show Spoiler [Matchlist] + CSS: FO-nTTaX Emergency Substitute: pvsnp Banner: GSL | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
 Dark 2-1  ClassicTrap 1-2  TYDark 2-0 TYClassic 2-0 TrapClassic 0-2 TY | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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digmouse
China6329 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
Dark > Classic (BARELY, and due to a misplay by Classic from a winning position in the final game) Trap > TY (but it looks really uncertain who the better player was) Trap > Dark (And everyone goes "Oh my god! Trap is looking incredible today." Tasteless claims that this is "the most X that I have ever seen", for some value of X.) Classic > TY (total stomp) Dark > Classic (Again, Classic looks better but somehow can't close it out. Everyone knows Dark is a great player but feels like Classic should have been the one to advance.) | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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yangluphil
318 Posts
This group is strong but very easy to predict. Will be pleasantly surprised if Dark or Classic does not advance, because I'm a TY fan. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On May 30 2018 13:23 yangluphil wrote: Trap getting out first is a lot less likely than Dear finishing first in Group B. At least Dear's PvZ is his best MU and he played it twice. Trap's PvT is trash and his chance vs either Classic or Dark is very slim. This group is strong but very easy to predict. Will be pleasantly surprised if Dark or Classic does not advance, because I'm a TY fan. Idk. Personally, I went with TY beating him but that's me playing the long shot. In terms of recent stats, Trap holds the advantage in sample size and win percentage when it comes to PvT. Also, despite Dark generally being far better in ZvP than Trap, when it comes to their head-to-head Trap seems to have his number for whatever reason. Even in LotV, Trap leads. Their record It's one of those weird head to heads, like aLive vs Scarlett. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On May 30 2018 15:29 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Idk. Personally, I went with TY beating him but that's me playing the long shot. In terms of recent stats, Trap holds the advantage in sample size and win percentage when it comes to PvT. Also, surprisingly, despite Dark generally being far better in ZvP than Trap, when it comes to their head-to-head Trap seems to have his number for whatever reason. Even in LotV, Trap leads. Their record It's one of those weird head to heads, like aLive vs Scarlett. Trap is an excellent PvZ player. It's by far his best MU. If not for his PvZ, trap would be just another Creator/Hurricane. Dark's ZvP is not as good as it once was in 2016. When it comes to late game I would still take Dark though. In the previous patch, Trap did not have a decent sample size in offline matches versus korean Terran. In the only four applicable series, he beat Ryung, who is a horrible TvP player and ALive, who is slumping real hard this year. In the other two, he lost to Gumiho and Bogus. No real surprise here. He had one online h2h versus TY, which he lost. | ||
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ByuuN
Poland678 Posts
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ypslala
Burma545 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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Wintex
Norway16838 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On May 30 2018 18:51 ZigguratOfUr wrote: A fantastic group, and I can't watch it due to crummy hotel internet. I'm rooting for the hipster pick, Trap, but I don't think he makes it out. Trap has the Jin Air Coaching™ on his side though | ||
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 30 2018 18:53 LongShot27 wrote: Hurr Durr he has air superiority, let me build a unit that gets countered by what he already has. Build a damn infestor, what the fuck? Brilliant, make more fragile units that phoenices can pick up. Passive-aggressive coach LongShot on the case | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On May 30 2018 18:53 LongShot27 wrote: Hurr Durr he has air superiority, let me build a unit that gets countered by what he already has. Build a damn infestor, what the fuck? Dark has a cruch on corruptors though. Isn't he the one who played ling bane corruptor? | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On May 30 2018 18:55 deacon.frost wrote: Dark has a cruch on corruptors though. Isn't he the one who played ling bane corruptor? You ain't wrong | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On May 30 2018 18:54 Ej_ wrote: Brilliant, make more fragile units that phoenices can pick up. Passive-aggressive coach LongShot on the case he built corrupters against mass pheonix, a platinum level player knows not to do that | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 30 2018 18:57 LongShot27 wrote: he built corrupters against mass pheonix, a platinum level player knows not to do that Maybe that's why they are stuck in platinum. Because they think they know better than Dark. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On May 30 2018 18:59 Heartland wrote: Phoenixes are countered by Corruptors now? No | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On May 30 2018 18:53 LongShot27 wrote: Hurr Durr he has air superiority, let me build a unit that gets countered by what he already has. Build a damn infestor, what the fuck? Maybe in a world where fungal roots air units it would work, but we aren't living in that world. | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On May 30 2018 19:01 Durnuu wrote: Maybe in a world where fungal roots air units it would work, but we aren't living in that world. one fungal on the pheonix clump and the corrupters actually kill them | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On May 30 2018 19:01 LongShot27 wrote: one fungal on the pheonix clump and the corrupters actually kill them You want Dark to pull all that gas out of his ass? You can't realistically gamble it all on one fungal. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On May 30 2018 19:02 Durnuu wrote: You want Dark to pull all that gas out of his ass? You can't realistically gamble it all on one fungal. It's better than getting rolled by an attack where you don't kill a single tech unit | ||
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
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Cuce
Turkey1127 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On May 30 2018 19:04 Cuce wrote: how do you even hold that Immortals with blink, duh | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 30 2018 19:04 Cuce wrote: how do you even hold that Explaining that is a bannable offence so let's just chalk it down to the map. | ||
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
On May 30 2018 19:03 Aunvilgodess wrote: Artosis Protoss bias can be very annoying. This guy needs to start playing Random for fucks sake. Artosis and Protoss bias in the same sentence....you have no idea how much I'm laughing at that | ||
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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Wintex
Norway16838 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Wintex
Norway16838 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On May 30 2018 19:03 Aunvilgodess wrote: Artosis Protoss bias can be very annoying. This guy needs to start playing Random for fucks sake. He plays SC2? oO From the past casting I would say they play more BW, which would explain why they name everything with BW names  | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On May 30 2018 19:12 Wintex wrote: Trap to win the group rofl? If it comes down to Trap vs Classic I pick Classic. His PvP has looked super strong especially vs other Koreans. | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On May 30 2018 19:17 Vindicare605 wrote: If it comes down to Trap vs Classic I pick Classic. His PvP has looked super strong especially vs other Koreans. Yeah, Classic should take this regardless of who he's up against in the winner's match. My predictions gettin' rekt. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33383 Posts
ggemini IN SHAMBLES | ||
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Wintex
Norway16838 Posts
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-KG-
Denmark1215 Posts
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
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-KG-
Denmark1215 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
On May 30 2018 19:40 Wintex wrote: wtf libs aren't tech lab units at the starport? rofl Reactored libs mmmmmm..... | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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seopthi
391 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Jerom
Netherlands588 Posts
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
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Motlu
Australia884 Posts
Probably have to have a small phoenix squad lategame for that shit | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Penev
28476 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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seopthi
391 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
If he wins today he'll be 16-1 in LoTV groups. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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maddogmcgee
Australia105 Posts
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TheSneak
Australia118 Posts
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-KG-
Denmark1215 Posts
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IMSupervisor
Australia138 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2647 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
What a champion. | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On May 30 2018 20:38 Fango wrote: If Trap can beat Dark I think TY gets out? Pretty big if. How fucking stupid would you feel as Dark if you went out first in this group? | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On May 30 2018 20:46 neutralrobot wrote: Pretty big if. How fucking stupid would you feel as Dark if you went out first in this group? Not really a big if, Trap has a good record against Dark. Classic picked Trap in group selections specifically to get revenge on Dark for picking him. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
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stilt
France2749 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On May 30 2018 20:52 Fango wrote: Not really a big if, Trap has a good record against Dark. Classic picked Trap in group selections specifically to get revenge on Dark for picking him. Hmm... Yeah, fair enough. I say "big if" out of respect for Dark and the fact that he had to have prepared hard for protoss here. | ||
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seopthi
391 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2647 Posts
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Penev
28476 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:12 Fango wrote: It's Rain right? I think so, dec 2015, not long after MC and well.. Life | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
>Make group of death >Lose 0-4 This isn't even the first time this has happened | ||
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:12 Fango wrote: It's Rain right? Rain if you only count SC2 retirements yeah, but if you don't since he's still playing BW and ASL, then it's Roro. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Penev
28476 Posts
Trap and Rematch Curse | ||
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virpi
Germany3598 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:20 Kommander wrote: Rain if you only count SC2 retirements yeah, but if you don't since he's still playing BW and ASL, then it's Roro. Now that's a name I haven't read in a while. BL/Infestor age, never forget. | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:21 virpi wrote: Now that's a name I haven't read in a while. BL/Infestor age, never forget. Wait... I was thinking Bomber. Did he not win a GSL? For some reason, I thought he had before he won that global finals. But it looks like my bad memory strikes again? | ||
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:26 neutralrobot wrote: Wait... I was thinking Bomber. Did he not win a GSL? For some reason, I thought he had before he won that global finals. But it looks like my bad memory strikes again? Nah, he's not a champ, even though he could play like one from time to time. It's why Bomber's Law is a thing | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:20 Kommander wrote: Rain if you only count SC2 retirements yeah, but if you don't since he's still playing BW and ASL, then it's Roro. Technically Tasteless said the most recent champ who isn't currently in Code S So it's Rain, then Life (unless this is officially removed?), then Soulkey, then everyone who won before that | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2647 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
User was warned for this post. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:31 Lexender wrote: I mean its not wrong, when was the last time we had 6 of a race in a Ro8? GomTvT if I had to guess EDIT : Technically this, but as you can see the format was slightly different. | ||
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:36 Durnuu wrote: GomTvT if I had to guess EDIT : Technically this, but as you can see the format was slightly different. Oh man I remember that season, I didn't watch TvT for months after. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Not in GSL at least, there are probably foreigner tournaments with 8 zergs or something | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
At least TY gets his group stage record going again | ||
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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Penev
28476 Posts
also nice forward blink | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2647 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:41 Fango wrote: We had 5 toss in some 2014 seasons. But we haven't had six of one race in a top 8 since GomTvT in 2011 Not in GSL at least, there are probably foreigner tournaments with 8 zergs or something WCS Montreal last year had 6 zerg in the ro8. | ||
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Penev
28476 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:53 Penev wrote: foreign zergs are just better Didn't Nerchio or someone try to claim this as the actual reason back in 2016 or something? | ||
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Penev
28476 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:55 Fango wrote: Didn't Nerchio or someone try to claim this as the actual reason back in 2016 or something? sounds like a thing king Artur would say, you know, the truth | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:55 Fango wrote: Didn't Nerchio or someone try to claim this as the actual reason back in 2016 or something? korean zergs lol | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Penev
28476 Posts
* korean zergs HAHAHA | ||
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Obamarauder
697 Posts
“dark wins this group ez. classic is garbage at pvz” -> goes 0-4 really makes you wonder how much game knowledge forum posters have | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On May 30 2018 22:22 Obamarauder wrote: “dear weakest player. rip dear” -> advances first “dark wins this group ez. classic is garbage at pvz” -> goes 0-4 really makes you wonder how much game knowledge forum posters have Are you saying that soO and Dark don't have much game knowledge when they selected Dear and Classic respectively for their groups? Fans make predictions based on what we've seen in tournaments and maybe on streams. Past results, however, don't guarantee future results. If someone comes out with something new, someone has a bad day, or the stars just align, predictions can be made to look really dumb even if they were made based on the best available information. | ||
Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On May 30 2018 22:22 Obamarauder wrote: “dear weakest player. rip dear” -> advances first “dark wins this group ez. classic is garbage at pvz” -> goes 0-4 really makes you wonder how much game knowledge forum posters have Well considering Classic himself has admitted his PvZ is trash, Dark specifically chose players he's favoured against, the players themselves have similar opinions Also Dear winning the group was an upset, by defintion that means him winning was unlikely. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On May 30 2018 22:36 Inflicted wrote: That makes 8 Ro16 finishes for Dark, closest is 6 for GuMiho, Trap, herO and INnoVation As a Dark fan it really gets annoying. If he played group selections the same way guys like herO, ByuN etc do he'd have made countless ro8s by now | ||
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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leublix
493 Posts
On May 30 2018 23:28 Fango wrote: As a Dark fan it really gets annoying. If he played group selections the same way guys like herO, ByuN etc do he'd have made countless ro8s by now He would probably have more 2nd places than soO if he did that. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On May 30 2018 21:49 IshinShishi wrote: the forward blink would've been good if there were no reinforcements, a risky move that many would take Trap had a revelation on the reinforcements. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
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jjmmtt
Australia995 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
But a Protoss AKA Neeb won so it didn't matter | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
And I guess we got an upset? I mean, TY is not even a top-14 player in the world, right? So playing like this must be a huge surprise to everyone, right? /s | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 31 2018 09:07 Paljas wrote: Rogue only Zerg in Ro8? Where is my money Ej? send me a pm with paypal account? | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On June 01 2018 00:08 Tyrhanius wrote: Maybe people will now finally realize how poorly the zerg race perform at the highest level, but i doubt it. Isn't his the first premier tournament in 10 months to have fewer than 3 zergs in the ro8? | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On June 01 2018 00:08 Tyrhanius wrote: Maybe people will now finally realize how poorly the zerg race perform at the highest level, but i doubt it. Both ZvT and ZvP are Zerg favored. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
According to aligulac xd ? Look which matches they add to do their stats : A small sample : Misato PL Z 3–2 T PL bleidd GOLDMADMAN CN Z 2–0 P US BlueApril TY KR T 2–0 P KR Gyulzzing Dark KR Z 2–0 P UA Lisandro Ryung KR T 2–0 Z CN Ganxieni danran CN Z 0–2 Z KR Rogue Solar KR Z 2–0 P KR 퇴근 Impact KR Z 2–0 P CN Firefly Arctur RU T 1–0 Z CH Cammelot Keiras CZ Z 1–0 P UK Floru etc... from such a great tournaments : "Diamonds Are Not Forever Invitational #1", "Kung Fu Cup Weekly 2018 ", " Alpha SC2 Team League Season 11 Euro Pro Group A Houkago Tea Team vs Romandy Gaming Academy", Proxy Tempest EU Open #135 Ro32", etc... and they mix that with GSL, olimoleague, like it's relevant... | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
Maru is miles above Solar at the moment and Zest mind gamed Solar and hit him with a new build. soO choked hard against Dear. I haven't actually watched soO INnoVation, but ZvT has historically been soO's weakest matchup, so that's not a surprise. Dark played like pure trash against Classic and Trap. Rogue choked hard against Dear. That's a super small sample size and there are a lot better reasons for the results other than imbalance. | ||
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Athenau
569 Posts
On June 01 2018 05:16 Tyrhanius wrote: According to aligulac xd ? Look which matches they add to do their stats : A small sample : Misato PL Z 3–2 T PL bleidd GOLDMADMAN CN Z 2–0 P US BlueApril TY KR T 2–0 P KR Gyulzzing Dark KR Z 2–0 P UA Lisandro Ryung KR T 2–0 Z CN Ganxieni danran CN Z 0–2 Z KR Rogue Solar KR Z 2–0 P KR 퇴근 Impact KR Z 2–0 P CN Firefly Arctur RU T 1–0 Z CH Cammelot Keiras CZ Z 1–0 P UK Floru etc... from such a great tournaments : "Diamonds Are Not Forever Invitational #1", "Kung Fu Cup Weekly 2018 ", " Alpha SC2 Team League Season 11 Euro Pro Group A Houkago Tea Team vs Romandy Gaming Academy", Proxy Tempest EU Open #135 Ro32", etc... and they mix that with GSL, olimoleague, like it's relevant... Including matches with large skill disparities push winrates towards 50% because the probability of pairing two players with widely differing skill levels is symmetric with regards to race, assuming a similar skill distribution across races. So if Aligulac winrates are close to 50% that doesn't necessarily indicate that the game is balanced because of the noisy data, but for the same reason larger deviations are a good indicator of imbalance because if you stripped out all the mismatched games the deviation would be even larger. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On June 01 2018 06:15 Athenau wrote: Including matches with large skill disparities push winrates towards 50% because the probability of pairing two players with widely differing skill levels is symmetric with regards to race, assuming a similar skill distribution across races. So if Aligulac winrates are close to 50% that doesn't necessarily indicate that the game is balanced because of the noisy data, but for the same reason larger deviations are a good indicator of imbalance because if you stripped out all the mismatched games the deviation would be even larger. Which doesn't work, because the region are locked for tournaments. The probabity of a zerg foreign to meet TY on a tournament is really low, while the probablility of a terran foreigners encounters Serral is higher. And there is many more tournaments on EU than on KOR. Some tournaments have BO1 qualifier, some BO3. It really hard to prove here that the number of games is enough to homogenize all the bias. Your hypothesis is the for all games the sum of all difference between MMR of T-Z=DeltaT is only = 0 to 200. I really doubt, it's true, and a fortiori that it was true for all reports. And actually you suppose 45% is different than 50%, which isn't sure. And the problem is it doesn't match the reality, if you see some 65% on TvZ on a tournament while aligulac says 45%, ever aligulac is wrong and fails to show the real state of balance, ever his stat have a confidence interval like 45% +/-20% and it's meaningless to use it. | ||
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Athenau
569 Posts
Which doesn't work, because the region are locked for tournaments. The probabity of a zerg foreign to meet TY on a tournament is really low, while the probablility of a terran foreigners encounters Serral is higher. Region lock doesn't apply to online tournaments, which is where you'll find the largest skill mismatches. And the same effect holds within a region anyway--assuming similar distributions of skill it's no more likely for a 90th percentile EU Terran to play a 10th percentile EU Zerg than the other way around. Your hypothesis is the for all games the sum of all difference between MMR of T-Z=DeltaT is only = 0 to 200. I really doubt, it's true, and a fortiori that it was true for all reports. No, that's not my hypothesis. And the problem is it doesn't match the reality, if you see some 65% on TvZ on a tournament while aligulac says 45%, ever aligulac is wrong and fails to show the real state of balance, ever his stat have a confidence interval like 45% +/-20% and it's meaningless to use it. Why would you expect the global tournament winrates to be an estimator of an individual tournament's winrates? That's...not how it works. The sample here is tournament games recorded by Aligulac. If anything, you'd expect the Aligulac winrates to be estimators of winrates across all tournament games played. The sample statistic is an estimator of the population parameter not the other way around. | ||
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On June 01 2018 13:50 juicyjames wrote: Anything recommended? Yes, first three series were great. Both Classic-Dark, TY-Trap, and Classic-TY. | ||
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The PondCast
Replay Cast
Korean StarCraft League
CranKy Ducklings
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EPT
2018 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code S
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4729.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/680.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/618.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/575.jpg)
